cellophanedeity

I was reading through the "Age of Consent: Legality and Morality" thread and it gave me the nerve to post a question I've been wondering about for a while now. I would like to keep this thread seperate from the other, as I don't want the focus of this to be pedophelia. For the sake of this thread, please only discuss in terms of two consenting minors. No rape, no pedophelia.

What is it that makes one able to be deamed "ready for sex?"

Biologically, it seems to me that it would be at the time of menstration for females and whatever the equivilant of that is for males. I believe those are the signs that the body gives that says "Okay, everything's alright up in here. Do what you will!"

On top of that, people at this age have generally already discovered their sexuality. I know that I for one was masturbating by the time I was in middle school, and I'm pretty sure that I wasn't the only one.

But, people at this age are often not provided with proper education in order to make the right decisions. I know people my age who have never had any sort of formal sex ed, and are thus relatively cluless. I don't understand how schools and parents can get away with denying children education regarding one of the most important, or at least prevalent, features of human living.

But say that there is a young person of biological maturity, who has been provided with extensive education on the possible effects (mentally and physically) of being sexually active. Why is it that they are not supposed to have sex?

Here are some of my ideas:

* Religon: I have a strong belief that a good deal of the religious beliefs that aim to supress sexuality are still lurking, at least in undertones, even with the nonreligious community.

* Education: Parents are afraid that their children are going to have sex because their children are uneducated in regards to the repercussions. But, they don't want to educate their children beyond the basic reproduction (This is where babies come from) and "Don't do it!" The parental embarrassment about talking about sex with their children has been transfered into the idea that children should not have sex.

So what do you think? Am I nuts for thinking that there's nothing wrong with an educated thirteen year old having sex with another educated thirteen year old? Is this laden psychosis from unconscious trauma from losing my virginity so young? Or am I making a decent argument?

I know that anything that regards youth and sex leads to heated discussion, but please be respectful! I'm glad we have a community here where we can ask these sorts of questions and have respectful and diverse discussion. Thanks!

Bill O'Rights

Of course you're not nuts for thinking that. I would, however, ask that you contact me when any of your future children are having their thirteenth birthday, and tell me if you feel the same. Ok...I'm old..granted. But, I still remember being 13. That would've been...what? 1975. We were more worried about baseball than getting laid. We were petrified of our first kiss...a blowjob probably would've made our heads explode (get your mind outta the gutter. You know what I meant.) We were more worried about how to go about asking Cindy Lou on the dance floor, than we were about asking to get into her pants. For me, at 13, sex was still 3 years off. Not that I was all that ready then, but I was better able to deal with it than I was at 13, no question. Oh well...times change, I suppose.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

maleficent

Physically ready and emotionally ready are two different things... A person might be physically ready to have sex at 13 - -but the majority of 13 year olds are going to have a tough time dealing with all that comes along with having sex...

I'm with Bill, I grew up in a different time, sex at 13 was unheard of - -a person having sex at 14 - -i'd serious question... why do they want to grow up so fast. Maybe virginity isn't that big a thing... but at age 13 -a body goes thru so many changes it takes time to adjust to that...

Children are children for such a short period of time... they've got teh rest of tehir lives to be adults... why rush it...

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Daoust

Excellent post, Bill.

I think the sexualization of our young generations is accelerating at a pace that is somewhat scary. I think 13 year olds are still kids. I think they are becoming more sexualized at earlier and earlier ages, and I don't think that they're ready for that yet. Well, a lot of them aren't, anyway.

I might have thought I wanted to have sex when I was 13, although I knew very, very little about it then, but I know I wasn't ready for it. I wasn't near mature enough. 13 year old girls are a little different. A little more mature... but mature enough? That's an individual call.

Who is going to say that it's not right for two underagers to have sex? Nobody, because nobody has the balls to say anything is wrong anymore. To each their own, they will say.

Well, I wouldnt' use the word wrong. I would just say in my opinion I dont' think underagers are ready for all the consequences of sexual intercourse.

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The_Jazz

Here, here! I really can't imagine being emotionally ready enough by the time I was 15 and a freshman in high school, but that's me. I certainly wanted it, but I was by no means prepared for everything that goes along with it.

My wife is due any day now with our first, and if its a girl I'm probably going to be tempted to completely shut her off from modern society at some point to keep her away from teenage sex, body issues, etc. The world is a scary enough place for an adult, let alone a teen.

raeanna74

"Pregnancy in adolescence carries a relatively high risk of death or long-term complications.
Pregnant teens are more likely to suffer from malnutrition, pregnancy-induced hypertension, and eclampsia than women over age 20. In addition, an immature birth canal may prolong labor, increase the risk of vesicovaginal fistula, cause permanent damage to bladder and bowels and to the infant's brain, or lead to death of mother and child.
Young mothers, ages 15-19, are twice as likely to die of pregnancy-related causes than women ages 20-24. The risk of death may be five times higher for girls ages 10-14 than for women 20-24."

Human Development Department

"The children of teenage parents face severe health, economic, and social consequences. Because one-third of pregnant teens do not receive adequate prenatal care, their babies are 21 percent more likely to be low birth weight; they are more likely to have childhood health problems, and to be hospitalized than those born to older mothers (AGI, 1999; National Campaign To Prevent Teen Pregnancy, 2004b).


The infant mortality rate for children born to teen mothers is about 50 percent higher than that for those born to women older than 20 (Annie E. Casey Foundation, 1998).


The offspring of teenage mothers are more likely to be poor, abused, or neglected than those of women who delay childbearing, and they are less likely to receive proper nutrition, health care, and cognitive and social stimulation (Annie E. Casey Foundation, 1998; Maynard, 1997). On average, a child born to a teenage mother visits a medical provider 3.8 times per year, versus 4.3 times for a child born to a mother over the age of 20 years (National Campaign To Prevent Teen Pregnancy, 2004b).


Children born to teen mothers are also at greater risk of lower intellectual and academic achievement and social behavioral problems — one study found that children of teenage mothers are almost three times as likely to be incarcerated during their adolescence or early 20s as are the children of older mothers (Maynard, 1997)."

Planned Parenthood

There are MANY more reasons for teenagers to get pregnant. The risk or pregnancy is there no matter what kind of contraception a young person uses unless they do not intend to have any children at all. Personally I believe a young person should not engage in sexual acts until they are capable of taking responsibility for a child AND until their body is capable of handling a pregnancy.

"Among teenage pregnancies in 2000, 56 percent resulted in birth, 28 percent in abortion, and 15 percent in miscarriage (Ventura et al., 2004)."

This means that the likelyhood of a teenager going THROUGH with the pregnancy is fairly high unless they have a miscarriage. Can the child's body handle pregnancy and childbirth?? No?? - then they have no business having sex. Sure you got your period. Some women do not have REGULAR periods until they near 16 and 17 at the earliest. The periods of a 13 yr old are much shorter and lighter as well because the body does not build as thick a layer of placenta in preparation for pregnancy. This means that there is a smaller source of nutrition for any fetus that she may conceive. The infant may be less healthy and possibly less developed and even retarded because of this inability of the body to prepare for conception.

Forget emotional maturity. Every teenager I know seems to THINK they're ready to handle a baby. How many do you really know that are truely ready when faced with the reality??

__________________
"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

martinguerre

looking at history and other cultures...i'm not convinced that there is an age where sex is suddenly okay. i think children are often more sexual than we're apt to give them credit for...and that parental control of their children's sexuality can be just as harmful as excessive sexualization.

most of us come from cultures where the age of marriage used to be much, much lower. yet there's still clucking disaproval over "this generation" and it's whoredom. i guess i find that a little bit funny. I was reading some socrates for class the other day...and it's the same refrain. "Those damn kids."

World keeps on spinnin.

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ngdawg

The fact that we are sexually maturing at 13 or so doesn't mean anything else is maturing. In reality, we are sexual beings from infancy.
As the parent of two very responsible 13 year olds, I can say without a doubt they are NOT ready for any type of sexual conduct, nor are any of their peers. I have also worked for 3 years with this age group and while some boys looked like they were in their 20's at 14 and the girls had killer bodies, they had the brains of children.
There was a sex educator a few years back making the talk show rounds-Suzy Somethingorother and she had one mantra that really holds true: If you don't know what every part of your body does and can't discuss it openly with your partner, you are NOT ready for sex.
There's a lot more to sexual maturity than pubic hair and breasts. The frontal lobes, the last part of the brain to fully mature and the part that holds our civilities and reasoning, are not 'matured' until close to 20 years old. Hormones don't level out until about the same time.
So while you're looking at that gorgeous 15 year old and thinking she'd be a great catch, she's still a kid, maturing and learning. And, she just might have a dad with a shotgun

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Poppinjay

13 year olds did it at my school, although rarely with other 13 year olds. In fact, I’d say I don’t know of any 13 year old girls having sex with 13 year old boys, it was usually 13-16 or older. I could buy the argument more around the ages of 16 or 17. Just going from my own environment, those who were sexually active before 16 had an abysmal success rate in getting a high school diploma. Of those 16 and older, about half went on to college and half graduated high school. If any dropped out, it wasn’t because of sex or relationship issues.

It would take a nine hour presentation over three days to prove to me that a 13 year old boy has learned anything about responsibility and sex at the age of 13. Even after that, all I would believe is his stamina.

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NoSoup

I'm a bit on the fence here...

While I agree with both sides, and I can say that in my opinion the vast majority of 13-14 year olds I know aren't mentally prepared for sex and the potential consequences, I keep in mind that it is only my opinion.

In countless threads here in Sexuality people are always saying things like "You'll KNOW when you are ready for sex, don't force the issue." I agree with that sentiment, but I don't see an age restriction on it. Like I said, the majority of the young people I know aren't ready for it in my opinion, but I have come across a few very intelligent, very mature young adults and I think that they can make up their own mind.

Granted, times have changed - a lot. Hell, I even see a difference and I got out of high school less than five years ago. I believe that if sexual education was much more prevelant and a lot more accepted, young adults would be able to make their own informed decisions.

To me, it seems like a lot of these children have sex simply because they aren't supposed to - it's forbidden. Although I don't agree with it, I certainly can't say that I never did anything simply because my parents/society didn't approve. Providing they have the education - and part of that education would be knowing the emotional aspects of sex - I don't see why they are not able to make an informed decision.

Although this my be hypocritical, I still believe that there should be some age restrictions on sexual partners. A 15 year old having sex with a 15 year old seems much more acceptable to me rather than having a 13 year old having sex with someone in their mid forties....

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Lak

I think this is really true in a lot of cases. Particularly here in NZ, we have one of the highest rates of teen pregnancy, also a very low age for loss of virginity (and its still falling apparently).
Talking to people I know, I have encountered a very wide range of first-time ages, all the way from 8 to 22. In a hefty majority of people who's first time came very young, when I ask: "Why?", I get "I dunno... cos we weren't supposed to, I guess. You know how it goes..".
Indeed, if you haven't done a whole bunch of stuff that your parent's said no to by the time you're seventeen, arguably you fail at being a teenager. Its faily easy to see why sex might be an area for exploration, what with the mulititude of different stigmas and taboos, media exploitation, and of course religious ideas in the mix.
Sex education is in place in about 1st form (age 11ish) in NZ public schools, aimed at ironing out all these confusing ideas in a way parents can agree on (or opt out of).
In NZ, with its high rate of teen pregnancy, sex education is slanted towards preventing pregnacies as opposed to preventing sex - the idea is roughly: "teenagers are going to have sex anyway, so they might as well know what they're doing." (I'm fairly certain this is the case in most of the world, its just that the pregnancy angle is big in NZ).
Critics of sex ed programs claim that this is the cause of some amount of sexual exploration that goes on at a young age, justifying sex.

Would less teens/children explore sex if sex education wasnt in place?

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ignorance really is bliss.

Arsenic7

Just think about how smart you THOUGHT you were at 13 or even 16 and think about how smart you ACTUALLY were.

That's probably why.

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xepherys

I'm also a bit on the fence. Frankly, there are a lot of 23 and 33 y/o men and women who aren't emotionally ready for sex. Or financially ready for an unexpected pregnancy. There are people with 15 kids that are on social aid that should've never been allowed to have sex no matter what their age. There are some people at 13 that are FAR more mature and capable of emotional understanding. Also, as previosuly mentioned, just a hundred years ago, marriage and child-bearing at 13-14 were not uncommon at all. It wasn't until the 40s or 50s when this suddenly became taboo. Kids often have "kid" mentality at 13 becuase our society (especially in the US) tells them that they are still kids. I have a ten year old that acts very ten. In three years he may act very 13, or very 16... you never know how people are going to turn out year to year.

World's King

My problem with this...


35yr old tells parents of 13yr old, "She said she was ready to do it. And if she feels she's ready then what's the problem?"

13yr old tells parents of other 13yr old, "She said she was ready to do it. And if she feels she's ready then what's the problem?"


One of thoes doesn't work.

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heavy is the head that wears the crown

ngdawg

Besides the fact that that 35 year old was probably older or the same age as those parents...
Think of the power of persuasion that perv would have over that child.
Two 13 year olds may go at it, but besides just plugging part A into part B, do they really 'know' what they're doing? Hardly, but that 35 year old sure as hell does.
Xephyrus: I don't know how you could be 'on the fence' about it. Would you consider taking a 13 year old back to your place if there were no laws telling you otherwise??? Sure as hell won't be MY daughter. Yes, there are people in their 20's who don't know much (the questions in the Sexuality Forum boggle my mind on that front), but they're more in a position(no pun intended) to learn. I was 18, totally 'persuaded' by someone twice my age who knew just what to say, how to say it and how to carry it out. But with age, comes wisdom and no matter how intelligent a 13 year old appears, they are not all that wise yet to be making decisions about who to give their bodies to and how.

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william

IMO - physically ready is not the complete package. I have a niece, just turned 16. She has the package to play the game, but her mind is no where near "go time". Also, IMO, is the fact that while schools may have sex-ed, they don't cover enough of the consequences. Sure, they may discuss STDs, but nothing is said of if the girl becomes pregnant (condom+pill=99% effective, it hapens). (And I don't know, Catholic, in a state like FL, where the parents have to be notified.)
This is currently a problem for a man here in FL - his 13yo daughter became pregnant by her 14yo bf. She lives in AL w/her mother. The courts gave her permission to marry because she was pregnant. Father knew nothing until after the fact.
Now I have to tell you, being born in the South doesn't automatically make someone a redneck. I was raised to have morals and respect, not only for my parents and elders, but for all of those around me. Did I choose to wait to have sex - you're damn right I did.
The biggest point that I think should be driven into every sex-ed class is that if you can't afford to have a baby, then you're not ready. As far as "parent awareness" goes, take your ass down to the local mall or beach, or wherever kids hang out - it's open, blatant, and out there. "It's not my kids"? Well, they're somebodies, and they are our future.

cellophanedeity

Maybe I think it's alright because my schools were very adament about our sex education, which started in grade four. A close friend lost her virginity at age thirteen. I lost mine at fifteen. Both of us are still happy with our decisions.

So what I'm gathering mostly from this is that kids are not educated enough about the implications of sex, so they shouldn't have sex.

Parents are not doing their part. I'm not sure if it's because they don't know specifics themselves, or if they're just afraid to talk about sex openly, but I think it's a huge cause of the problem.

Also, I'm not saying that all youth should have sex once they're mature. Just that I don't see anything wrong with it if they do in an educated manner.

maleficent

I don't disagree with you at all.. and you come across as being an intelligent and mature young woman, so I have no doubt at 15, that was the right decision for you... Your friend at 13 -- just seems too young to me... There are so few years that are available to be a child-- it's pushing a child into adulthood too soon.

Talking to children about the mechanics of sex is easy... it might be embarassing (I'm still waiting for my mother to tell me - she says when I get married then I she'll tell me... )but it gives kids some information (I'm sure a lot of kids would also be as embarassed as their parents are). Talking to children about the emotional aspects of sex is a lot harder, because everyone is different and their emotions are different - -and truthfully, can many people actually put into words what their feelings towards sex are -- not the pleasure principal, but the how you really feel after...

Kids are going to do what they are going to do -- regardless of what their parents tell them... (I'd be pretty certain that you did

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ngdawg

If my daughter lost her virginity at her current age, I'd be devastated. She knows the implications, is a relatively very bright girl. Thirteen is a child and 15 not much more than one. I'm extremely liberal about just about everything, but children having sex, no. You're one of very few, for whatever reason. Girls that I worked with who engaged in sexual activity(13-14) did it for a number of reasons, none the right ones. And not one admitted to enjoying the experience-it was to 'keep the boyfriend' or get one.

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Zeraph

An interesting point because sexuality is one of the few things that our social descriptors say we should be "perfect" on, and by that I mean to make no mistakes to learn from. That of course has merit when thinking about using condoms and such to help prevent pregnancy and STDs, but why can't a 15 year old say to his parents "Going to Sue's/Johny's house to practice sex. Be back by 6."? Or even an 18 year old, parents might expect their kids by that age to secretly be having sex but few would opt for an open relationship in knowing such things. Society in some ways, is even harsher.

When it comes to gaining independence, and real world experience (like with a job) the jump in with both feet mentality has it's merits and would not be looked down upon by society. Sex on the other hand...no one better see you, better keep it quiet, except in specific circumstances (usually only with friends you trust) and it better be "perfect."

Driving is another good example, that can be very dangerous, more so than the possible dangers of sex. Most people learn to drive by just doing it, I know my first time out we drove around for over an hour, hitting every type of situation (6 way intersections, freeway/highway, etc.)

Zeraph

Yet clearly they learned from that mistake, thereby not making such an endeavor in vain.

If someone looks back and realizes they did something too early, like maybe getting their own place to live at 17 or 18, they usually don't regret such things even though it was a "mistake" at the time, because they learned from it and can move on to learning more advanced things all the faster.

Again, we "accept" mistakes in other facets of life, why not with sex?

cellophanedeity

And as long as the person is very well educated on how to avoid these mistakes, then they're less likely to regret any events in the long run.

I think why we regret sexual mistakes more than others is because some of the "mistakes" can last a lifetime (ie herpes)

But I agree with you.

ngdawg

You can't put sex on the same plane as choosing a bad place to live or a bad car! And if you do, I feel sorry for you...(nothing personal, but experiencing the affection that comes with sharing, well, if you haven't had that....)
While having sex is certainly fun, it can and should be the most personal sign of affection you can give someone. Apparently we are not talking about that, this discussion must be about fucking, which is also quite enjoyable but even more so shouldn't be done by kids who can't say or name the parts they're using without giggling and don't know a thing about personal pleasure and giving. You can't take back sex, can't trade it for something better..once you give yourself to another, that's it. And the wrong experience can have reprecussions that may never go away. Ask anyone who WASN'T ready.

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raeanna74

Personally I believe a young person should not engage in sexual acts until they are capable of taking responsibility for a child AND until their body is capable of handling a pregnancy.

As I mentioned before. A female's body is not fully capable of a safe healthy pregnancy until full maturity - which occurs around 19 years old. There are always risks when pregnancy is involved but why unnecessarily increase the risks??

I don't believe a young person who has not had a great deal of experience in other areas of life as well and is not emotinally and hormonally mature can truely understand the implications and consequences of engaging in sexual behaviors.

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"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

Zeraph

ngdawg, Yes I was assuming, and I think it is, that this thread is about the mechanical nature of sex, or "fucking." But not all sex has to be about emotional fulfilment. It is not an either or situation, you can have loving, emotional sex one day, and mechanical sex the next. Oh and I meant the risk of death or serious injury from a car, not getting a lemon.

And as far as "giving yourself to another" never getting it back, etc. has more to do with how your culture views such things. There are far worse things to ruin your life than bad sex.

raenna: "There are always risks when pregnancy is involved but why unnecessarily increase the risks??"
If one uses adequate protection, you could probably have lower risk of pregnancy than serious injury or death from driving in a car. Sorry to use the car example so much, but it is a good one, but cars generally arn't nec, yet we still use them allll the time. (Sure theyre nec for some people, but in this ex. I am only concerned with those that could get by on bikes or walking most places.) I think, "shit, Sue got in a car accident and died/got maimed", is worse than "shit, Sue is pregnant."

To be clear, I am not arguing so much for kids to be having sex, I really don't care. But more to change our societies hypicritical view on the matter.

Zeraph

Just using this to clear up my point further. I am not advocating a no education, just go have sex attitude. Just like I wouldn't advocate no driver's test/license for operating a vehicle. Learning safe sex is a lot easier than learning to drive, yet age of consent is 18 and driving (on your own) is at 16.

And not to confuse my previous point in my post above, I was referring to the dangers of just being a passenger in the car.

raeanna74

Not when the risks involved with a 14 yr old being pregnant are as high as they are above.

The risks are not just to the teen mother. The risks are to the infant child she gives birth to. And if you'll notice in the facts I found from Planned Parenthood the chances of her NOT having an abortion are fairly low. Even if she carrys the infant to full term she the risks to the teen mother include the following as well as other risks.

1. permanant damage to the bladder.
2. damage to the intestines.
3. damage to the urethra
4. damage to the vaginal canal.
5. damage to reproductive organs in general.
6. sterilization due to trama to the reproductive organs.
7. possible death
numerous other more permanant injuries

to the infant the risks are also fairly high and the younger the teen the higher the risks to the infant

1. brain damage
2. retardation
3. learning disability
4. injury to the head during childbirth
5. death
as well as other permanant health and mental issues.

Then consider the ongoing complications of a teenager giving birth including the possibility of the mother dropping out of highschool (which if you will refer to the planned parenthood link you'll see that the risk is fairly high). There are also risks of the parent or parents becoming welfare participants for an extended period. I know many here at TFP seem fairly antagonistic about people who live off welfare for a long time. Well this is one way to prevent a large portion of the population even GETTING on welfare. I even know of some mothers who are on welfare so long as they have young children. Then when their youngest nears the cutoff age for the welfare benefits she will try to get pregnant JUST to continue the welfare benefits. There are many more problems with teens giving birth than adults giving birth and the worst of which are NOT death.

Go have a car accident, die, what's the worst that comes out of it?? You're life is ended and your family grieves for you. What a waste?? Really - I can think of a worst waste - Go get pregnant, have a child, raise it as a welfare child and then let it drop out of school early because you never really learned to grow up and be a parent before concieving and before you were old enough to actually give birth to a healthy child that wasn't retarded.

Back to the car analogy
Driving or traveling by gas powered vehicle on public roadways - rarely avoidable for the working population to survive.
Sex as a teenager - NOT necessary for survival. Completely avoidable for a few more years.

__________________
"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

Zeraph

Wow, so many points to refute. I'll just say that a condom, plus spermicide, or other equally effective BC is hardly "high" chance of preg.

I'm nearing my self imposed post limit for an argument, so I'll agree to disagree.

shortynickel

The above quote is one of the reasons why i think parents dont talk to their kids, the other i think is either being lazy or not having any time to do so cause they are always working and never get to see their kids for more then a few mins a week.

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What type of...

"Parents have forgotten how to be parents" Aaron Lewis

"Get your ass back here, your a white boy walking thru the ghetto" - at the end of a bachalor party said to the bachalor while walking home.

Leto

you're about 2 - 3 yrs younger than I am. And yet you have captured exactly what it was like for me at 13. And the 70's were not a time of innocence.

at 13, although my dream girl would have consisted of a large set of breasts (thank you Woody Allen) I would not have known what to do with them, even though I was physically ready.

Like you said, times seem to have changed, but is an increase in sophistication or loss of naevity (however the hell you spell that) still reason to go ahead and have sex?

from the kid's perspective (then as well as now) hell ya.

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ngdawg

Which, if you notice here, is almost where the lines are drawn. The younger the poster, it seems, the more they think kids having sex is just fine. But we parents and older folks say no. Experience of age? Generational change of mores? Or is it that we are safely far enough away from being kids ourselves that we see mistakes with a little less attachment, causing us to reflect more?
A 22 year old and 16 year old now are 40 and 34 down the road-same generation. But push them back 3 years...a 19 year old and a 13 year old? Uh, no....and it's not 'cultural'. It's difference of experiences and knowledge.
I don't think times have changed all that much. Kids had sex when I was 13... girls got pregnant, some married, some gave the babies up, some just had'em.
Ignorance doesn't change. Kids don't really change. Just seems society inundates them with images and ideas that make them think they have to 'grow up' faster. Then you DO grow up and realize....I did that way too fast. And that is not always going to come to you when you're 20.

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Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

Hardknock

Welcome to America...

What I want to know is, do other developed countries have the same problem as we Americans who try and shelter children from everything under the sun in the name of "protecting the children?"

maleficent

Read some of the questions posted in this forum some tme.... I'd definitely agree with that statement... If a person is that clueless at age 18 + == they have no business having sex... Younger it would even be worse...

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zz0011

I know someone who was 13 in 1977 and lost their virginity at that age.

It caused him problems he has never been able to get over. Not a baby, not an std, but developmentally, emotionally, physically, and spiritually.

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xepherys

Some Xeph stats:

Age: 28
Children: 2 (both boys so far)
Lost Virginity: 15
Regret it? Not really.


I'm not old and I'm not young. I am a parent. My first son was born in 1995, so I was 18 and his mom was 16. This obviosuly was NOT ideal, but an abortion wasn't something either of us wanted. We got engaged a few years later and a couple years after that we split up. We're still good friends, my son is a very bright, well-adjusted kid. Nobody gets any welfare... he'll not drop out of school (if he fears for his life that is). Just because situations aren't always ideal does not mean everything goes to hell in a handbasket. Sometimes it's just a matter of BEING mature at a younger age and being able to deal with such things. I coped and so did she. She finished high school (despite the school district not being thrilled) and even wrote a story for the school paper about being a pregnant teenager (and later a teen mom). She explained very well that it wasn't perfect, and all that she had to go through to make it work. But she did it anyway. Now she's 26 and has a beautiful little girl as well. She has a normal life, and isn't any different or worse off than anyone else her age. She isn't emotionally scarred or financially incapable. She works (hard), owns a house and does great.

Again, there are 30 y/o couples that have kids and can't handle it half as well. In the end, age has little to do with it... every person is different.

raeanna74

You and your kid's mom have done well, unusually well by your kid. Your situation is not the norm sad to say.

Age has a LOT to do with it.
"Nearly 80 percent of teen mothers eventually go on welfare."
"In 2002, only 10 percent of teen mothers aged 15-17 had graduated from high school."
"fathers of children born to teen mothers earned an estimated average of $3,400 less per year than the fathers of children born to mothers who were 20 or 21, over the course of 18 years following the birth of their first child (Annie E. Casey Foundation, 1998)."
"On average, a child born to a teenage mother visits a medical provider 3.8 times per year, versus 4.3 times for a child born to a mother over the age of 20 years (National Campaign To Prevent Teen Pregnancy, 2004b)."

__________________
"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

Hardknock

I'm curious to know what kind of problems exactly? How did they affect him in his adult life that he still can't get over?

Hardknock

Stats can't possibly cover every situation.

martinguerre

nor do they talk about cause and effect.

there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

__________________
For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life.

-John 3:16

la petite moi

Frankly, I think parents should be more open with their children. If you open up to your kids, they'll come to you about sex. I know that I had an ex-boyfriend whose mom was so open, we would talk about sex in front of her, and she would talk to us about the consequences. It was an education I never received from my parents.

I never ended up having sex with that ex, though. I had sex for the first time when I was 17. It was a very good choice. I think you're ready when the two people involved are educated in their decisions and both consent.