Benito

As I am an European and as the world opinion about the USA is very bad, which is of course only the USA's and the American's fault, I would like to ask why should one consider the USA great? Why is it great to be an American?
Benito

djtestudo

What exactly are you looking for in this answer?

Besides, it sounds to me like you have your opinion set already.

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

hrandani

Because it's ridiculous to respond to an intentionally inflamatory and not reasoned out question like this, I would like to submit to you that in fact, the USA is great because of its people.

raveneye

Let's see:

-- cheap wall racks at KMart for displaying all 35 of my rifles and 22 pistols;
-- if you're black you can get free room and board in government housing just for walking down the street
-- lawn bowling year around in Florida
-- home entertainment centers so entertaining you can forget to vote!
-- with the war, business is booming
-- lots of hispanics that don't mind losing hands and feet in dangerous, low paying jobs
-- lots and lots of clean, well-trimmed suburbs, great for raising kids!
-- ever since 9/11, more folks vote Republican! To be Republican is to be free.
-- since 9/11 there seem to be terrorists on every street corner, but Jesus is coming soon, and he'll take care of them!

About what you were expecting, Benito?

Ustwo

Because making the rules is better than whining about them

Though I wouldn't mind being Irish of course, they seem to have a big obvious clue these days which is why they are doing so well compared to the rest of Europe economicly. Plus I have a thing for red heads.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Seaver

This is a bad question. Why? because for every good thing a country has it has bad things.

I.E. European pseudo-socialist countries. Great health care, but they pay upwards to 60+% of their income to the government for it. While not all Americans have healthcare, those who do have the choice of the % they want and thus the benefits out of it. In addition we are not facing the same health care problems that state funded ones are complicated with.

SO.. your question is not as simple as you want. What makes America great is the same that make other countries bad, what makes us bad are the same that make others great.

Willravel

I can list things like this for a long time, but it boils down to a few big things.
1: Our freedoms: The Bill of Rights gives Americans the fundamental rights that we enjoy every day. Everything from freedom of press and freedom of speech to freedom of religion and freedom to assemble. Those are some damn good rights.
2: When America is united, we are almost invincible: When some ideal or mission manages to unite all the people in our nation, we will succede in that mission. We might be divided most of the time, but every once in a while we all rally behind something. That's when our potential can be seen.
3: We have the O.C.

host

Correction.....the only one of the three that the tratiors that some of you refuse to examine in the hashest light, in view of their crimes against our constitution...and against our reputation in the eyes of every individual on the rest of the planet who used to think of this place as signifying something special.....something that was a beacon of hope......is <a href="http://www.fox.com/oc/">The O.C.</a>

Pretty pathetic, wouldn't you agree? Look how we set an example of "freedom of the press", and equal protection, under the law, especially for the Iraqi people!

We have much more in common with Padilla than many of us realize. He is not the one who has done the most damage to our individual sense of freedom, and of individual, constittuional protections against intrusive or oppressive government.. I am not your enemy for pointing this out to you. You are your own enemy, and a threat to <b>the rights that we all held from</b> our government, until you voted for, and supported what we are suffering under the weight of, now.

Where do you suppose what tattered remnants of our "freedom of the press", would remain today, if not for the internet? Because of these "thugs", I have to spend so much fucking more time than should be necessary, sorting out the talking points that some of you even parrot in your posts, funneled through shills like Armstrong Williams, Judith Miller, or Sinclair Broadcasting.

Our enemy is not in Iraq, and it is not Padilla. Our enemy is the traitor who attempts to act in the name of a government that is exercising authority that we, the people, have not expressly granted to the traitor who says that he is acting with government authority. The traitors and their supporters have twisted our perogative against us. How many more "Padillas" will you stand by and passively observe before you take back our perogative to hold all rights, except for those expressly ceded to our government, as outlined in our constitution?

That perogative is the thing that set our people apart from the rest of the world, it made each of us special, collectively on a footing above our government once upon a time. It is un-American to accept that the president can determine which citizen has a right to exercise his rights, yet some or you support that very thing. If your support of that is not treason, what do you call it?

macmanmike6100

Although our often-blind self-confidence sometimes blurs into arrogance, the belief that nothing is impossible remains one of the many reasons why America is a great country to be in. The world's innovations of the past century have, for the most part, originated within America's borders. This is not to say that an Irish or Chinese or Mexican wasn't the progenitor of these innovations, but they were accomplished from within an American institution, whether it be corporate, philanthropic, governmental, or a mix.

I strongly agree that all Americans would say that, once united, we are unstoppable. From the standpoint of many outside of America, it's "arrogant." Those people likely don't understand the power expressed in that statement. America's success thus far is a direct result of the power of ideas, and with some much-needed repairs that many are already beginning to repair, our continued success will be founded on much of the same.

As a footnote, I hope the world recognizes that America's current international image -- that which is less secular, less rationally-justified, less understanding -- is a fluke of the Bush administration. Obviously, my bias is revealed in that I think Bush is a terrible president. But the world needs to recognize that although there are many problems in America, Bush was elected by a popular minority the first and a popular slight majority the second time, and even the second victory was highly questioned for its electronic election practices by the independent media. In an unprecedented way, almost every American across all party lines has had to face questions typically unseen: What are the rights of citizens? What are the rights of criminals, terrorists, and traitors? How is the corporate world truly structured, modified, and maintained, and how much do I want to be a part of it? And more.

The point is, America is a damned great country. Prior to my four months in China (I'm still here for another eight), I was pretty sure that the downfall of America was imminent within the next 20 years. Now more than ever am I confident that this is simply not true. America will pull itself out of the international mire it sits in at the moment (and this moment is relatively brief in history) and not only regain its strength two-fold but, as it's done throughout the past century, bring the entire world to a better place as well.

host

What will we offer people in other countries, as a medium of exchange, for their petroleum, other raw materials, and manufactured goods, once foreigners realize that the fiat currency we offer as payment, is of little or no value? They don't seem interested in what little that we offer tham to buy now, and we build no new factories, we discover no new minerals, and we innovate less frequently in ways that translate into intangibles that they will want to buy from us.

Sixteen years after Alan Shepard was first blasted into space, and eight years after astronauts from the United States landed on the moon, NASA displayed a new program and a new space vehicle design that promised to make frequent space travel much more attainable. Four years later, in 1981, the new space shuttle was launched. Seeing the shuttle roll on it's back, as predicted, shortly after liftoff, and then flawlessly rise up out of the atmosphere, I felt a sense of pride welling up that I haven't felt too often since.

Twenty four years have passed since that launch. A couple of years ago, our president announced a goal of manned travel to mars. Later that month, he did not even mention that new goal in his annual state of the union address.
The space shuttle program appears to be at an end, and NASA has a replacement space vehicle scheduled to launch.....when?.....and the president's followup of his intention for mars spaceflight is........?

Once we sell Chinese and other foreigners our non-renewables; real estate, brick and mortar businesses, how will we sustain ourselves, let alone extricate ourselves from the "mire"?

Willravel

I agree that there is a thin line between confidence and arrogance. When someone expresses an opinion like mine ("When America is united, we are almost invincible..."), it's up to them to examine what that means to both the person saying it and the people listening. For example, if someone were to say, "America is invincible, bitch" in a room of French people being served 'freedom fries', this would be construed as arrogant. If, however, one were to say, "When Americans can put their differences aside and work towards a common goal, they are very likely to succede", this would be construed as confidence.

Benito, do they hate me? Do they hate just any American citizen walking down the street? Or do they hate those Americans responsible for consolidating wealth using powerful multinational corporations that don't care abnout those they hurt? Or do they hate those Americans responsible for bomb after bomb falling on schools, hospitals, and civilian areas?

Having been to 12 countries in the past 24 months, and talking to a multitude of people about this very subject, I can say that many of the people who you put in the group of "world opinion" actually have no problems with me or the next guy from the US. It's those who do wrong and are selfish. There are people like that in every country, even yours. Judge us not for our 'evil doers'. Judge us for our common man. You might be surprised.

macmanmike6100

Just briefly on democracy...I strongly do not agree with our forceful implementation of democracy. However, we should also remember that we don't live in a perfect democracy, as it would be unreasonably difficult to do so (I think).

What we see, however, is that people *do* try to "steal" our system...right now, the world is focused on the powerful pillar of capitalism, which actually is not perfect capitalism and exists among other pillars of American strength.

Again, America is far from perfect. But right now, just like the hype surrounding China is overly optimistic (like the hype surrounding Southeast Asia pre-1997), the "anti-hype" around America is overly pessimistic. Sadly, too many Americans are losing faith in themselves, too. Despite this, the majority aren't staying sad for long and are working to *do something* (whatever they think it should be). In the end (is there an end?), I'm confident that we will come out as a powerful global partner (key word being partner) once again.

djtestudo

This is the best possible answer I think, especially in a thread that is flawed from the start (and THEN host came along ).

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

Seaver

Really?

A man who joined the side we're at war with isn't a traitor?
An American who knowingly and willingly decided to aid said enemy and carry out a plan to kill as many innocent Americans as possible isn't a traitor?

Say what you want, he's a traitor.

And your argument about freedom of the press being bought? Welcome to freedom. People are allowed to sell add space. People are allowed to put in PR publications (upwards to 80% of a newspaper is PR publications). Now that the government you hate does it the 1st amendment doesnt exist? please.

Now I go back to my origional statement. Those same things that people attack us for are what make us great.

flstf

Jazz, Rock 'N' Roll, Harley Davidson, software, smooth new world tobacco.

host

If you support an extra-constitutional power for our president, aka chief law enforcement officer of the country, to preside as prosecutor, while sitting as the arraigning magistrate over a citizen of the U.S. who is arrested on U.S. soil, a president who determines whether the arrested citizen is allowed to retain his constitutionally guaranteed rights to appear before a judge who determines the merit of the government's case against him, and the right to representation by an attorney, a right to hear the charges and to review the evidence that the state intends to use against him, and the right to a timely trial by jury in open court.....<b>....or NOT....</b>, even one time....then you are advocating a threat to the future of each of our relationships with our government, greater than any terrorist threat could possibly portend.

By his attempt to abridge the rights of each citizen, by attacking one citizen, Padilla, in such a subversive and obnoxious way, Bush has violated his oath of ofiice, "to protect and preserve the constitution of the United States".

No terrorist, including Padilla or any foreigner, has attacked all of us on such an elementary level. Bush has turned our perogative to grant, or not to grant him and his government new powers at the expense of our "natural" rights, on it's ass.

There is not greater concept of freedom than this...<b>the right of every citizen</b> to face our accuser, and the right to appear before a judge to hear the charges, to then tell the judge our side of the matter, and if need be, granted a timely trial by the judge who makes the impartial decision as to the validity of the government's charges against us.

By doing what he did to Padilla for three years, Bush seized power illegally, and took away the best reason for any of us to fight to preserve his version of justice in the United States, and he's given all of us a reason to fight to the death to restore "one nation, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."

We pledge allegiance to the flag, and to the republic for which it stands....

It sez what it <b>STANDS</b> for..what we've fought and died for...<b>"with Liberty and Justice for all".</b>. it doesn't say, "except for Jose Padilla", and it doesn't mention that Bush or Ashcroft get to intervene.

This is the largest blight on the reputation of the United States as a nation of "law", and the greatest attack against individual rights. It will only go unpunished if enough of you let it.

The Rosenbergs in the '50's were accused of giving the Soviets the secrets of how to make nuclear weapons, and even in the time of Sen. Joe McCarthy, president Truman had enough respect for the American people and for the people under his command who had died for our freedoms in WWII, to not commit the crime of taking away the Rosenberg's legal rights.

They were arrested in summer 1950 and tried in the spring of 1951.
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/proj...b/ROS_ACCT.HTM

The only thing different today are the attitudes and the commitment to the oat of office of the elected officials in power now. They have held Padilla without his rights for three years, and now they are not charging him with the heinous crimes that justified depriving him of his legal rights.

They are called "legal" rights, because it is illegal to attempt to take them away. The president broke the law, and he threatened my freedom, and yours.

Benito

When I started to read the answers to my question I found out what kind of people the Americans are, but then I found also some intelligent answers from persons like Willravel, Host and Macmanmike. Thank you for those answers.

I am not so sure about your freedom mainly because of many govermental institutions.

Macmanmike: Which are the American innovations of the last century you are speaking about?

Yes, ironically said: You are unstoppable indeed. We just would like you to stay at home and be unstoppable there. The USA is not some sort of world-police.

Willravel: You ask if "they" (that is "we") hate you. First, I don't know you so this is not personal, but European people think that Americans are ignorant, sometimes even stupid (which was demonstrated by the answers I got and it is also demonstrated by your filmindustry). The education in USA is poor. Seaver even thought that we pay 60% in taxes here! Many of you speak only one or two languages, you even have illiteracy - something we don't have at all in my country.

Capitalism is of course not an American invention. It was known already in classical antiquity but developed in 16:th century England.

Some of you wrote about Bush. There the worldopinion is united; Bush is the stupidest politician there is in the world. He is called "Hitler" in Germany. Italy's televisionchanel RaiUno had a whole televisionevening called something like "USA, the stupid dictature". In Great Britan they are pondering how the world would be if they hadn't been forced to give the colonies away. USA could be as good as Canada.

Still nobody has convinced me that USA is great.

Benito

raveneye

What's your definition of "great"?

macmanmike6100

Actually, I thought I'd get a big "You're an ass" response (not necessarily from you), so thanks, I tried :-)

I don't see why you should think that a diversity of governmental institutions inherently results in a lack of freedom. Although I feel that the US government is not just too bureaucratic but bloated and mismanaged, I don't think that large government necessarily translates into lost freedoms. Indeed, despite the diversity of US governmental institutions, I honestly only feel that a few of them have actually (tangibly or intangibly) invaded the freedoms our country was built upon. The obvious ones come to mind - CIA, NSA - but I'm sure there are a handful more that do so. Despite that, the majority are just bloated, not purposely infringing on American freedoms.

For a good overview, http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/dat...y.cfm?HHID=206

Of course, by far they were in the extremely broad but globally pronounced and influential areas of science and technology...
http://web.mit.edu/invent/www/ima/
http://www.nap.edu/catalog/10726.html

...and business...
http://www.smithsonianeducation.org/...ons/start.html

..and leadership...
http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item.jhtml?id=4053&t=innovation

...and music...
http://www.americansymphony.org/dial...ncert/leon.cfm
http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/dat...cfm?titleID=67

...and the mundane...
http://www.inc.com/magazine/20021001/24702.html

Unfortunately, the US <b>is</b> some sort of world-police. Not only in the militaristic sense but, far more importantly, on the global economic sense.

I apologize, truly, because I didn't mean unstoppable in the authoritative sense. Possibly as a reflection of how I was brought up as a suburban-NY American, 'unstoppable' refers to the ability to push forward regardless of supposed bounds, esp. in reference to ideas. "We can't do it," for example, isn't in my vocabulary, although "We can't do it affordably" is.

Most unfortunately (for American tax-payers, especially), our government and many Americans (now and for many administrations past) have the idea that the US should be the world-police. Obviously I disagree with this practice. I personally feel that any action should be done so respectfully...being unstoppable is one thing, but being unstoppable while trampling on other countries'/people's right to be themselves is entirely another.

This can only prompt me to wonder why is it that just because many Americans are ignorant about some things, and some Americans are generally stupid, that all Americans have to be grouped into this? I think we need to accept that the world population as a whole follows a bell curve...I know, I know, cliched...but just realizing that most people are average should be enlightening.

You bring up our film industry, but remember that the film industry thrives not only because of the American market. The global legal market for even $50-mil US opening weekend films often matches or exceeds that of the US market. The world devours our supposed crap...so who's "stupider"? The guys who sell it or the guys who buy it? I'm sure there are plenty of bad movies in every country's film industry. Ours is a bigger industry and thus creates more crap (and we continue to do it more efficiently because the world wants it, too).

Again on the film industry, why should we ignore the true gems that we've produced? The James Bond films, Turner Movie Classics (almost all of them...priceless), and even recently, The Royal Tenenbaums and The Life Aquatic, two personal favorites of mine. Garden State was a moving (albeit, just a couple of times, contrived) generational piece.

High school education in the US is poor. Education for the poor is poor. (Sorry, should use our 'underprivileged' euphemism.) But university education is stellar, even at relatively-crappy state schools (disclaimer: I guess I can only really say this with confidence about NY and CA). Education is, sadly, being privitized, but that doesn't mean it's not reversible. We're getting the hint that equal education for all has been vital to our success in the past and is vital for our success in the future.

As for the 60% tax-rate, well yeah we like to throw that number around. Although it's not exactly accurate, it's used as an indicator of the fact that Europeans generally pay more tax. Can you tell me (without Googling) what the average American pays? In any case, at least I can cite this: http://www.oecdobserver.org/news/fullstory.php?aid=77

I didn't say that it was an American invention, but we've developed and promulgated our version better than any before us.

Can't disagree with the first part. And I did laugh a little with the Britain line...c'mon, that was three hundred years ago...they should get over the "what-if's" :-) But please, how can you say that the US is <b>not</b> as "good" as Canada? This is subjective, in any case, but please tell me why you think Canada is, as a whole, better than America?

I've traveled Europe and am now traveling East Asia. The one thing I can say, conclusively, is that America remains great in that we already have so much...this is not to say that we have "more" whatever than other countries, just that we objectively have so much as a whole. BUT, and this is a huge interjection for me, I still rate the United States as the <b>worst</b> country in the world not for what we have but for what we *could* have and don't. Wasted potential: it pains me to see it anywhere, but pains me to see it at home.

pan6467

The greatest things about America were the diversity, the education and the entreprenurial drives. Community pride and civic responsibility was also very important and drove us.

I talk in past tense because the diversity, has come to divide us in many ways: political correctness, having to rewrite history every time some group doesn't like what has been said, the division that exists between races, classes, political philosophies and even religions.

Diversity once made us very strong and respectful of one another. Now it seperates, divides and does more harm. We're not Irish American, African American, whatever American..... if we were born here we're simply American, putting something else in front is like a someone pissing in the eye of the country. It's become very destructive.

Education, we took great pride in being well educated and worked hard to make sure everyone got the best possible. It worked. Helped people to want to better themselves. Helped us develop the greatest technologies of the 20th Century.

Problem is when the Boomers reached the 80's and the Yuppies started achieving something, they forgot how much the country gave them and believed greed was good. Instead of making sure what they were given was better for their kids than what they had, they didn't care. They cared about materialism..... so for the first time ever in our country we started to move backward in everything and we still are.

Entreprenurially, we supported mom and pop shops. The country had loans available, the government knew this was the bread and butter of America. What happened was suburbs, malls, people hunting for cheaper products so they went to buying imported goods. Greed took us away from community owned and based shops because we could get more for less. And now we have to shop at the conglomerates because all the mom and pops are going fast. Either they try to keep prices low enough to stay open and go bankrupt or they have to charge more than the big national chains do and people can't afford them....... so they go out of business.

Noone at first thought those Japanese transistor radios would destroy the economy. We had educated ourselves and we had moved forward in technology. We manufactured higher ticket items like cars, appliances, and so on and the companies had great R&D departments to keep us moving forward.

But again greed of the unions, then management made R&D to expensive, plus our education is behind in the world now. Other countries stepped in and took over, first the televisions, then cars, then appliances and steel, and computers, until there isn't much left.

Our communities and the ways we would help each other..... have turned into having more than the Smiths, he who dies with the most wins (wins what I'd like to know), petty jealousies, and again greed..... why should we pay taxes let everything go to Hell, the roads, the inner cities, the police, the fire departments..... it's our money we need it to buy more stuff and to get more money. Fuck the community.... I don't need them, don't care about them and what have they ever done for me?

And the companies...... are so profit driven they have to leave to find the lowest possible overhead. Which again forces communities to lose atx revenue and suffer. So they cut everything they can and people start bitching about the roads, the nasty water, the way the towns are decaying, the crime..... and it's a spiral downward where again, we'll leave our children worse than what we had.... and that is not what America stood for until the greed and the idea of unregulated unrestricted capitalism.

Even the areas that we were once the greatest in such as space programs and oceanography, climatology, physics, ...... any of the sciences we have fallen behind in.

But we still have every 2 and 4 years a chance to change policies and better ourselves. And I am eternally optmistic that the country will correct itself before the neocons destroy us with their economic, police state and military policies.

But as you see in this thread and even in my own post, the division in this country is our greatest enemy, not terrorism, not some outside force or country, but our own inner turmoils and prejudices and mistrusts of each other.

Is America still great? We can be. The people individually still are, we just have lost the ability to communicate with our neighbors, our community responsibilities and our national pride to keep bettering ourselves.

We're like a beaten animal that is cowering in the corner right now licking our wounds. We're ready to blame and attack anyone who comes near whether their purpose is to help or to kick us while we're down..... and yet the truth be known, we did all the harm to ourselves because of the very things, diversity, education, and entreprenurialism that made us strong. We got greedy and forgot what made us strong and in doing so we became weak.

But the optmistic side of being a beaten animal is that we can heal, become stronger and get our spot back in nature. Or we can lay down and let our wounds kill us..... right now we're letting our wounds kill us because we refuse to find common ground and work together.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

connyosis

Well that's a pretty big generalization. I'm european and I certainly do not think that americans are stupid by default. Are there some stupid americans? Yes of course, but here is some news for you, there are stupid europeans/asians/africans as well. Really.

Do you know for a fact that education is poor in the US? Again, I'm sure there is things lacking in the american education system, but that would not be unique to the US. Hell, here in Sweden some students finish ninth grade without knowing how to spell or count. As with the american system, these are exceptions rather than the norm. Most people do know how to read and write, in the US as well as in Europe.

Well I agree with you that Bush is not a great leader. He might in fact be one of the worst around, but I'm really really getting sick of people comparing him to Hitler. When Bush decides to wipe out an entire population, then this comparison might be accurate. Until then, it's just plain moronic.

And with the attitude you've shown, I doubt people will care...

__________________
If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby.

shakran

Stop being small minded. You get 15 replies and you think you know what kind of people we are? I'm sure I've run across 15 rude europeans. Good thing I didn't conclude ALL europeans are assholes eh?




I'd like to see that too. What you need to understand about government (yours too) is that sometimes the government doesn't necessarilly do what best represents its people. Europe has had some pretty good examples of that itself - after all Blair agreed to work with Bush on invading Iraq. And then of course there's English imperialism, and need we mention Hitler?



What has the film industry to do with it? You're judging us on fiction now? Should I judge all Europeans based on what I see in Fawlty Towers? You're all a bunch of raving lunatics who can't even run your own lives, much less a hotel?

Well Seaver can be excused for not knowing how much YOU pay in taxes, since you haven't bothered to identify which country you are from. Plus, we can now use your logic to assume you are ignorant as well, since France taxes at around 60% and, just to clarify, France is part of Europe.

As for not having illiteracy, please do tell us what country you are from.

The truth is that there are ignorant idiots in all societies, and there are well informed geniuses too. You started this thread looking for the idiots and, having supposedly found 15 of them (which is less than 0.00000006% of the population of the country whos people you are so eager to attack) you've concluded that you're completely correct. That's not a very good run of logic.


Oh. OK. Then I guess Great Britain is also a stupid ignorant country because Tony Blair went along with Bush and, gee, he's a politician too. Just because our leader is an idiot does not mean the entire collective is full of idiots.




No. You need to read up on your international news. Something I'd have expected from such an englightened European as yourself!

Germany's justice minister supposedly compared Bush to Hitler. Minster Daeubler-Gmelin maintains the newspaper misquoted her. And even if she was quoted accurately, all she allegedly said was that Bush used Hussein to divert attention from domestic troubles, and that this is a common tactic, even Hitler used it.

That's not exactly calling him Hitler, now is it.






I'm not interested in convincing you that the USA is great. You're going to form your opinion the way you want it to be no matter what evidence you get to the contrary.

But here's why I think the USA is great. In another 3 years we can boot the idiot who's leading us and pick another one. During those three years we can call him an idiot without getting in trouble for it. And when he gets too far out of line we have built in checks to keep him from grabbing too much power. They failed in his first four years in some areas, but I think people are learning their lessons from that. You'll notice that Bush has had a much tougher time getting things done lately. And as long as we're comparing Bush to Hitler, I might add that we're starting to wise up after only 6 years. It took 12 years from the point Hitler was elected chancellor until he was finally toppled, largely by us, in 1945.


In 200 years we went from a ragtag bunch of colonies that BARELY defeated our mother countries, to an economic superpower that people from less fortunate countries are scrambling to get into. Do we have our faults? Sure, we have a lot of them, but so does your country. So does EVERY country. Nobody and no thing is perfect, and frankly taking the attitude that you do (We're perfect, you're all ignorant knuckledraggers) is borderline trolling.

alansmithee

Why is America the best? The NFL, simple as that.

But seriously, Europe is just getting increasingly bitter because they are gradually fading from world relevance. The EU was a last-ditch effort to try to consolodate what remaining power they still had into one political unit, but even that isn't working.

Lebell

I've watched this thread since inception and I come back to the original post:

It seems that you have already made up your mind, so why should anyone try to convince you?

If you are willing to pass judgement on an entire people by what you get fed in your news without bothering to get to know them, how is this any different from what we have been accused of?

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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roachboy

best allegory i can come up with for the united states right now is norma desmond from "sunset boulevard"---a fading star who cannot face the fact that she is a fading star, whose living space is set up to keep her from having to confront the realities around her-----a great, glamorous star from a vanished era who cannot even begin to understand that the era is over.

i like to think this is a temporary state of affairs.
because it takes time to process radical change.
so total denial can give way to a path to recognition.
but this can also become an end.
living in a fantasy is easier than facing a changing world.
but opting for this rarely ends well.
watch the film and you'll see for yourself.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Hanxter

in a nutshell...

U ncensored
N udists
I n
T he
E ducation
D epartment

S pending
T ime
A way
T o
E ffect
S exuality

O n
F estive

A ssociates
M aking
E rnest
R elations
I ndividually
C ausing
A crimony

Psycho Dad

:sigh:

Just curious... Where in Europe are you? Because I used to work with an old German gentleman and as he put it, American tanks don't make as much noise as Russian tanks. And I suppose that many other Europeans saw Germany as being unstoppable until the allies turned the Nazis back.

I think the answers you are refering to were intended to be sarcastic as the posters saw your original post as being ignorant. Look at some of the other posts these people you view as ignorant have made. Their response I believe they felt was on par with the worth of your question. And education here as anywhere will only give back what you put into it. Seaver's or anyone's assesment of European tax rates is not a measurement of education. American colleges have students from all over the globe so there are those who do not share your views on American colleges. And I doubt that there are not illiterate people where you are.

Hitler? That statement would make me wonder if anyone in Germany even knew who Hitler was except that I believe this is your opinion more than fact. My son just returned from Iraq and despite what you see in the news there are even people there that don't hate Bush.

And nobody will here. You don't want convinced. And that is why some of the other posters that you assumed as ignorant and uneducated didn't invest a great deal of time in trying to convince you.

[john wayne]You left out how much better things are now that Indians no longer attack cars on the Oklahoma interstates.[/john wayne]

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Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

flstf

I think this analogy could be used for most countries as they age. I also think it probably applies more to most of the European countries than our young nation. We'll get there eventually.

splck

You do realize a lot of "rights" that some here say makes the usa great are things that many other countries have as well. It's as if americans think they are the only people on earth that are free to say their elected officials are idiots. Americans are rightfully proud of their country, but using the same old clichés about being free grows tiring. It's time to change the tune.
That's more like it... a nice straight-up honest, if misguided, answer.

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nice line eh?

macmanmike6100

pan6467 ... these words I have are infinitely far from sufficient, but are the best I can conjure right now: <b>Beautifully said.</b>

And as for the others, it's too late for me to write personally but I think these things were all well-said. From the more venomous responses to the NFL (what about college football? Fight On!!!) to the poignant mention that Bush is far from Hitler, bravo.

Last two cents: America could be at its fall from grace, but I think that America's far closer to its second coming in an ever-growing global community.

connyosis

And talk like that is what makes europeans dislike americans.

__________________
If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby.

flstf

You must be somewhat arrogant to assume that you speak for all European people. My wife escaped from the iron curtain during the Prague Spring and lived in England for several years before getting her citizenship here back in the late 60's. She said the thing that surprised her most was the number of poor people here as well as the number of wealthy and that we seem to have the best and worse of most things in our society.

Now I am not claiming that we are great (however one makes this judgement) but one of our largest strengths is our diversity. It helps keep our society dynamic as opposed to most of Europe. That plus our capitalistic system helps fuel our economy. This is a place where you can make it big or fail miserably whereas most of Europe is more stable but less dynamic.

shakran

Give me a break. Those things DO make the USA great. I never said those rights weren't available to other countries. Just because other countries also have those rights doesn't make the rights any less great.

roachboy

fistf:

maybe so, but the american version of this is particular, in terms of timing, context and implications. but even if the american version was entirely like those which have preceded it, there would nonetheless be no guarantee that this situation will play out in any given direction. repetition, when you can find it, does not change anything about the choices that are being made in real time. at best, repetition could help to clarify what is at stake in making the wrong choices. that because repetition in history is often located at such a superficial analytic level that is really means nothing. no reassurance to be gathered from thinking that you see it, no transformation of the present dilemmas because you think they have been confronted before.

but i am a star.
no-one leaves a star.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

CSflim

I disagree completely with Benito and I am uncomfortable with his representation of European people. (I adore "Many of you speak only one or two languages". I only confidently speak two languages, I guess that makes me an idiot, huh?). In his defense he never made any claims of representing anyone other than himself.

I think it is incorrect to claim that most Europeans hate America, or hate Americans, or think that Americans are stupid.

I would say that most Europeans hate America's current president, and find it hard to understand how such a person could possibly become president of the most powerful nation on the planet.

I would also say that to many Europeans, Americans often come across as very arrogant. Also it often appears that Americans know very little, and care even less, about what goes on in the world outside their own borders.

Finally I would add that to many Europeans the US news and media is a joke. (I had regularly seen parodies done of US tv news, but I never realised how awful it actually is until I briefly lived there).

I don't want to make any claims of representing Europe or anything like that, but I tried to put across what I percieve as being the popular opinions of America among many Europeans.

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shakran

Your thoughts are much more lucid than the OP's. And yes, US media and news is not the best in the world, but we do have some shining lights. NPR does its job and reports stories that other outlets shun for fear Americans will be bored.

Actually you can trace just about everything you said to the media. Americans are ignorant of world news because it's not very easy to GET world news around here. And that's because some moronic consultants have managed to convince media outlets that Americans can't understand world news and will go elsewhere if too much world news is reported.

Bush didn't get elected the first time around - he was appointed by the supreme court and therefore the US stopped being a constitutional republic between 2000 and 2004.

The second time around Bush and his cronies managed to manipulate the sleeping media into scaring the hell out of the citizens in order to secure his reelection. He was helped in this by the fact that his opponent wasn't willing to fight for his campaign, even when Bush came up with lies and halftruths to hurl at Kerry.

Seaver

Hey Benito, I thought we Americans were the arrogant ones. We go ask yall what makes you great, then attack those who we dont agree with. Then proceed to call your leaders Hitler, your people stupid, then expect yall not to get mad? Huh...

Wow. Do some research before calling other people stupid (btw thanks for backing me up Shak). France is up there as well as Italy and other coutries. I suspect you're in Germany since you pointed out the Bush = Hitler thing (that's so new btw), kinda nice not having to pay for national defense is it? Hense why their taxes are only in the mid 20s-30%'s.

http://www.worldwide-tax.com/finland/finland_tax.asp

3% difference isn't that much.

You also dont have said illiterate people flooding over your borders inflating those percents. However.. I DO love the way you treat your immigrants, leaving them with 50%+ unemployment rate, socially and politically ignored until a 2 week riot breaks out. (Europe is not without it's problems)

Ah, I get it. You were not asking a question to get an answer. You were asking a question to further validate your opinion. Thank you, good bye /ignore

flstf

I am hopeful but by no means convinced that we may be able take off the blinders and change things here for the better. I think we are a fairly dynamic people and there may be enough of the revolutionary spirit here to shake up the system.

I think our political system and therefore our myopic outlook is currently locked into a kind of autopilot. A great start would be to replace many of our entrenched polititians but the stranglehold that the two major parties have on our elections does not make me very optimistic at this time.

roachboy

i dont understand why folk are getting pissy here.

somewhere in "democracy in america" tocqueville complains that americans are unreasonably vain about where they live, that you have to flatter them, and that in their love of flattery, americans are as bad as the worst courtier. it seems that tocqueville hit upon something that still holds true.

i am not saying that the op was made by a rocket scientist.
nor that his other post was.
just remarking on the snippiness is see emerging.
what would you prefer, that the opening had said "i know america is great in every way but is it really like that...what is it like to live in nirvana"?

the other level at which the assumption of a mount atop a high high horse seems to have happened without the slightest justification is in the often idiotic characterizations of europe that followed an admittedly idiotic characterization of the us.

it appears from this that once someone offends the almost limitless vanity of americans they get so pissy that they forget how to conduct themselves. which speaks more to the norma desmond thing than anything i could possibly have written myself.

fistf: this post crossed with yours--i wasnt referring to it in the above

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Willravel

Actually, that is an assumption. I, of course, know that the citizens of the US are not the only people to enjoy freedoms. Even someone from as messed up a school system as mine knows that. Just because others share our great atributes does not make them any less amazing. The fact that we've been able to maintain them more or less for so long is also quite astounding. My freedoms aren't a cliche, they are fundamental to the way I live my life. When I talk about my freedoms, I am being sincere and serious.