The Mexican government isn't even hiding it anymore

[sob]

Okay, now the Mexican government is publishing a guideline for sneaking into the US. It actually facilitates illegal entry into this country.

They represent it as an effort to increase safety, but I'm having trouble buying that argument when it even offers tips on how to avoid detection once you get here.

Please also note the difference between the advice given to their people coming here, vs. the advice given to Central Americans sneaking into THEIR country.

Link

Mexico publishes guide to assist border crossers

Chris Hawley
Republic Mexico City Bureau
Jan. 1, 2005 12:00 AM

MEXICO CITY - The Mexican government is giving out a colorful new comic book with advice for migrants, but immigration-control advocates worry that some of the tips may encourage illegal border crossers.

The 32-page book, The Guide for the Mexican Migrant, was published in December by Mexico's Foreign Ministry. Using simple language, the book offers safety information for border crossers, a primer on their legal rights and advice on living unobtrusively in the United States.

Dramatic drawings show undocumented immigrants wading into a river, running from the U.S. Border Patrol and crouching near a hole in a border fence. On other pages, they hike through a desert with rock formations reminiscent of Arizona and are caught by a stern-faced Border Patrol agent.

"This guide is intended to give you some practical advice that could be of use if you have made the difficult decision to seek new work opportunities outside your country," the book says.

But immigration-control groups questioned some of the guide's advice.

"This is more than just a wink and a nod," said Rick Oltman, Western field director for the Federation for American Immigration Reform. "This is so transparent, this is the Mexican government trying to protect its most valuable export, which is illegal migrants."

The book is being distributed as a free supplement to El Libro Vaquero, a popular cowboy comic book, in five Mexican states that send many migrants to the United States: Zacatecas, Michoacán, Puebla, Oaxaca and Jalisco. The government plans to print 1.5 million copies.

The book comes with a yellow disclaimer saying it does not promote undocumented immigration, and it repeatedly warns against crossing illegally. But it gives no information about the steps for seeking a U.S. visa.

Instead, it offers frank safety tips. In the section on crossing rivers, it notes, "Thick clothing increases your weight when wet, and this makes it difficult to swim or float."

On crossing the desert, it says, "Try to walk during times when the heat is not as intense" and says migrants should follow power lines or train tracks if they get lost.

The book warns migrants that they may have to walk for days to reach towns or roads in the desert and that they will not be able to carry enough water or food.

But it also shows a woman adding salt to a water bottle and advises, "Salt water helps you retain your body's liquids. Although you'll feel thirstier, if you drink water with salt the risk of dehydration is much lower."

Mexican authorities say they're just trying to keep migrants safe.

"We are not inviting them to cross, but we're doing everything we can to save lives," said Elizabeth García Mejía, chief coordinator for the Nogales, Sonora, section of Mexico's Grupo Beta migrant protection service.

Carlos Flores Vizcarra, Mexican consul general of Phoenix, said he had not seen the guide until a reporter showed it to him.

He said the guide appeared to be only the latest attempt by the Mexican government to warn migrants about the dangers of crossing the border without proper documentation.

The reality, however, is that many migrants will try to do so anyway, he said.

"This is nothing new. It's a way to put it in very simple terms so people will understand the risks," Flores Vizcarra said. "The intention is out of concern for human rights. People are doing it anyway. We cannot ignore that there is a very big migration between our two countries, and people who are coming to work need to understand the risks."

Some migrants from Mexico who have crossed the border illegally in the past said the guide seems to send a mixed message.

"On the one hand they seem to be saying, 'Don't cross,' but on the other hand they are saying, 'Cross,' " Humberto Morales, 22, an undocumented immigrant from Oaxaca working as a day laborer in Phoenix, said after looking at a copy.

He doubts the guide will keep many people in Mexico from crossing illegally, but he said it could help save lives.

"We have lots of programs like this in Mexico, but people keep crossing," Morales said.

No official at the Foreign Ministry headquarters in Mexico City would agree to an interview about the comic book, despite repeated requests through the ministry's media relations office.

The book's pictures are drawn to match the style of El Libro Vaquero. They portray the migrants as strong and healthy men and women, wading into a river or walking through the desert.

One section of the book urges caution when dealing with immigrant smugglers, known as coyotes or polleros. It shows migrants climbing into the back of a tractor-trailer, a possible reference to the 19 migrants who died in Texas after being sealed in a tractor-trailer in May 2003.

Another section warns migrants not to lie to U.S. authorities or use false identification, and it gives instructions on what to do if caught by the Border Patrol.

"Don't throw stones or objects at the officer or patrol vehicles because this is considered a provocation," it says. "Raise your hands slowly so they see you are unarmed."

A picture shows a group of migrants running from a Border Patrol sport utility vehicle, though the text urges them not to flee.

"It's better to be detained a few hours and repatriated to Mexico than to get lost in the desert," it says.

Seven pages are devoted to migrants' legal rights after they are detained and another four to living peacefully in the United States.

"Avoid attracting attention, at least while you are arranging your stay or documents to live in the United States," it says. "The best formula is to not alter your routine of going from work to home."

The Arizona Republic faxed copies of the guide to the U.S. Border Patrol, FAIR and two groups that support stronger controls on immigration.

A Border Patrol spokesman said he does not think the book encourages illegal crossers.

"If they've already gone ahead and made that decision to cross illegally . . . then anything that helps protect lives is worth it," said Andy Adame, spokesman for the Border Patrol's Tucson sector.

But the immigration-control groups said some of the advice goes beyond protecting migrants and, instead, encourages them.

"A lot of it is disclaimers, but then there's this part about if you're going to cross the desert, do it when the sun isn't so hot," said Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Washington-based Center for Immigration Studies. "It's a mixed message."

Said John Vincent, editor of a newsletter published by Virginia-based Americans for Immigration Control: "It really looks like the Mexican government is encouraging illegal immigration. It shows the contempt that the Mexican government has for our laws."

The Mexican government produces a similar book aimed at Central American immigrants who try to enter Mexico illegally. The book covers much of the same information about legal rights and repeats many of the warnings. It even shows a group of migrants struggling to breathe inside a truck.

But that book doesn't give the same kind of safety tips on crossing the border or advise immigrants on how to live peacefully in Mexico.

Reporter Daniel Gonzalez contributed to this article.

Reach the reporter at chris.hawley@arizonarepublic.com

[martinguerre]

A Border Patrol spokesman said he does not think the book encourages illegal crossers.

I'm not sure what my reaction is to the broader issue yet...but you may want to at least note that the people in charge of sealing our border don't take offense to it.

[smooth]

"Avoid attracting attention, at least while you are arranging your stay or documents to live in the United States," it says. "The best formula is to not alter your routine of going from work to home."

If this is the level of advice they are providing in terms of avoiding "detection once [they] get here," I can't seem to find anything inaccurate in it.
It sounds like sound advice and I suspect even capitalists and our law enforcement officials would agree to it wholeheartedly.


Perhaps the reason the similar book for Central Americans doesn't have the same once-they-get-in advice is because it's unnecessary.

[Superbelt]

Exporting their population is a huge part of the Mexican economy. Mexicans come over, earn some dollars and send them back to their family in Mexico. It would actually be quite logical for Mexico to help teach people how to do this to make Mexico a richer nation.

[RangerDick]

Originally Posted by Superbelt

Exporting their population is a huge part of the Mexican economy. Mexicans come over, earn some dollars and send them back to their family in Mexico. It would actually be quite logical for Mexico to help teach people how to do this to make Mexico a richer nation.

Agreed. But teach citizens how to do it LEGALLY, while discouraging illegal activity.

[Seaver]

Exactly, sending their population over here helps in tons of ways for Mexico.

The split between the classes in Mexico is enormous. There is almost no middle class, they are either extremely rich, or extremely poor. With the poor leaving the country like an open faucet it gives the rich an excuse for not improving living conditions, and it also works as a scape valve so nothing dangerous arises. Already stated when they move to America they dotn keep the money here, they send it home to their families.

So, by exporting labor they get money, they control their population, and an excuse to keep things as they are without improving conditions for the lower class. Sure, why NOT make this book in the Mexican eyes?

[santafe5000]

As for myself, i feel this immigration quota from Latin America is way too low and should be raised to allow most if not all of them to legally enter the country. If they have relatives already living here, let them in. WE are a nation of immigrants so let those in that want to come. Just check them out as they come in.

[Willravel]

I'm waiting for the published guideline, "How to Bomb the Infadels", written by the Iranian and Syrian governments.

Or maybe "How to Kill Slowly with Delicious Foods" from the Netherlands.

[Konichiwaneko]

I don't mind illegal immigrants if we switch to the fair tax program.

[sob]

Originally Posted by smooth

If this is the level of advice they are providing in terms of avoiding "detection once [they] get here," I can't seem to find anything inaccurate in it.
It sounds like sound advice and I suspect even capitalists and our law enforcement officials would agree to it wholeheartedly.


Perhaps the reason the similar book for Central Americans doesn't have the same once-they-get-in advice is because it's unnecessary.

Its accuracy was never in question. Neither was the soundness of its advice.
What is in question is the propriety of another country offering its citizens advice on how to break our laws.

Could you expound a little on why the advice to Central Americans is unnecessary?

[jorgelito]

I don't know man, I still think it's wrong for their government to basically "condone" it.

If they're willing to break the first law coming in, what's to stop them from breaking other laws?

I mean I understand the economics but it still doesn't make it right. Maybe we should bill their government for the cost of their citizens (i.e.- health care, education, crime, crime, crime). One way we could stop it is to stop their sending money back to Mexico.

We got enough poor people of our own to take care of, we can't take on Mexico's too.

I mean, we got a war to feed and a deficit to care for, not to mention social security.

If they want to come so bad, why can't they do it like the rest of us: get in line and apply for a visa, then residency, green card, citizenship. This just makes a mockery of all the good folks who follow the rules. Bad, bad precedent.

[f6twister]

This is just the start. Next Cuba will have a book on how to build a better raft. Then Columbia will have the How to Smuggle Your Drugs brochure that every supplier will distribute.

Okay, lets keep it at home. How to Rob a Bank and Not Get Hurt; Rapists, How to Find Your Victims.

Publishing a book on how to "safely" commit illegal acts is just wrong. They obviously don't care about the issue that much or they would have added the legal information also.

[smooth]

Originally Posted by jorgelito

Maybe we should bill their government for the cost of their citizens (i.e.- health care, education, crime, crime, crime). One way we could stop it is to stop their sending money back to Mexico.

They do pay taxes. That should be sufficient, after all, they'll never see the social security money they've paid.

Now, we could look at parts of Europe to see what happens when an advanced industrial nation (with its correlate: low birth rates and extended longevity) doesn't get enough imported labor. I find it unfortunate that many citizens will fall prey to political rhetoric and cut off their noses to spite their faces.


I am not resolved to any one position:

1) on the one hand, if we are going to embrace capitalism let's not have faux-capitalism. Free movement of capital requires free movement of labor for the system to work (if such a system is indeed capable of working). I find it unfortunate that Smith's name is bandied about so readily and I can't imagine how much of his work people have actually read.

capitalists know this. Bush knows this. but a corporate agenda to push wages down and create a labor surplus is opposed to the rhetoric employed to mobalize disenfranchised citizens within the nation: on grounds that jobs will be taken up by immigrants, on racial grounds (perceived and real threats to white identity), issues of security, legalities, and etc.
Thus they run into the very real problem of how to alter to discourse to allow for immigrant labor to become legitimized while not losing credibility before the people following their past rhetoric against the people supposedly at fault for lost jobs and etc. we will see more of this attempt to shift the way things are talked about in the public and political arena in the coming years of Bush's tenure.


2) but then we run into the issue of what to do with all these people. they need money, their families depend on their remissions, they do much work others won't, they are law abiding (despite whatever reasons someone might conjure up to the contrary based on the fact that they crossed an artificial barrier to their livlihood), and on and on.

the issues have become so tangled and contradictory for both platforms, it becomes hard for myself to tease out where I'd like to stand myself, much less listen to a politician speak about the matter as if the contradictions didn't exist.



Here and other places I see people who would otherwise extoll the virtues of the free market, yet they oppose the free movement of labor. That to me is a very strange position to place oneself into. It appears at first blush that such a person would want to have his or her cake and eat it to.

[smooth]

Originally Posted by f6twister

This is just the start. Next Cuba will have a book on how to build a better raft. Then Columbia will have the How to Smuggle Your Drugs brochure that every supplier will distribute.

Okay, lets keep it at home. How to Rob a Bank and Not Get Hurt; Rapists, How to Find Your Victims.

Publishing a book on how to "safely" commit illegal acts is just wrong. They obviously don't care about the issue that much or they would have added the legal information also.

I'll start off with the very simple exercise I would prefer to do before determining what is and is not included in the pamphlet: have you read it?

ok, that said, I draw a firm distinction between smuggling drugs, robbing banks, and raping victims to the crime of walking across a socially constructed demarcation of where one nation begins and another ends.

[jorgelito]

If it's illegal for them to be here, then how can they pay taxes without getting caught? I thought "illegals" get paid under the table.

I understand what you're saying Smooth, it's just that I'm not so sure that's the case. Are the guys at the carwash or the gardeners paying taxes? If it's illegal to hire illegals and one can't file paperwork for them, then how can they pay taxes?

I agree with you about the free markets-->free labor concept especially in regards to capitalism. It irritates me when Corporate America bitches and moans about needing to depress wages and this and that. It's more like corporate welfare and double standards.

In any case, I think they're separate issues.

If we need that labor so badly, then we should either a). raise wages to attract labor, or b). facilitate immigration to supply the "much needed labor" and keep the money here without remittances southward. Give them a stake and a chance to prove their loyalty.

Just because a border is "artificially constructed" does not make it illegitimate and therefore unprotected by law. Those people should still respect and obey the laws. What do you say to all the lawful immigrants going about it the proper way? Thousands of people become citizens every year and immigrate. Why can't they do the same?

Still, the Mexican government should not be "encouraging" this type of behavior. It makes a mockery of our legal system. People need to take accountability and responsibility for their own actions. They already know the risks yet they still do it. They should also suffer the consequences.\ of their actions, not be rewarded for breaking the law.

[Mephisto2]

I read somewhere that if all the illegal immigrants in the US left, the economy would take a nose dive.

On the radio the other day I was listening to the PBS show "All Things Considered" (a great US radio programme that's retransmitted in Australia). They noted that some congress men were championing anti-immigration laws (disallowing them driver's licences, prosecuting those who employ them or give them benefits etc). It was rather interesting, but I don't remember all the details unfortunately. One fact did remain in my mind though. Apparently there are over 4 MILLION "illegal aliens" in the US. Furthermore the majority of them are working and therefore contributing to the tax system and the economy.

I can understand the desire to limit or address economic refugees (because this is what they are). But be careful what you ask for. As I said above, I think some of you may be mistaken as seeing these people as a burden on your economy as opposed to a net contributor.

Interesting debate.


Mr Mephisto

[Konichiwaneko]

Originally Posted by Mr Mephisto

I read somewhere that if all the illegal immigrants in the US left, the economy would take a nose dive.

On the radio the other day I was listening to the PBS show "All Things Considered" (a great US radio programme that's retransmitted in Australia). They noted that some congress men were championing anti-immigration laws (disallowing them driver's licences, prosecuting those who employ them or give them benefits etc). It was rather interesting, but I don't remember all the details unfortunately. One fact did remain in my mind though. Apparently there are over 4 MILLION "illegal aliens" in the US. Furthermore the majority of them are working and therefore contributing to the tax system and the economy.

I can understand the desire to limit or address economic refugees (because this is what they are). But be careful what you ask for. As I said above, I think some of you may be mistaken as seeing these people as a burden on your economy as opposed to a net contributor.

Interesting debate.


Mr Mephisto

Most of their contribution to the tax system is via sales tax which I believe is not enugh to compensate for what they actually can use in return. Their children are allowed to use our school systems, they can get charitable hospitcal care, and in some cases also government help.

That's why I think the Fair Tax Proposal by John Linder is a pretty neat one. Liberals are fighting it under a "Raising taxes on the poor" banner right now, but from what I've read and heard it really sounds like it's an initiative that will help our government in the next century.

[martinguerre]

they pay a lot in SSI/medicare withholdings. they can't get anything back on fake numbers, but they still pay in. most everyone agrees (even anti-immigrant groups) that most of the pay in is on the federal level through withholding taxes.

[Konichiwaneko]

Originally Posted by martinguerre

they pay a lot in SSI/medicare withholdings. they can't get anything back on fake numbers, but they still pay in. most everyone agrees (even anti-immigrant groups) that most of the pay in is on the federal level through withholding taxes.

Most illegals here are under the table day to day wage earners in the construction business. I"ll admit I'm not as informed as a could be about other types.

[Superbelt]

Here's a novel idea, open the borders. Make immigration from Central America, specifically, easy. When that happens you get many positive things.

It gives you a stable flow of workers, removes the obstacle that drives them to commit the crime in the first place, and fully envelopes them into the tax system so they actually pay into all federal, state and local coffers as applicable to their wages. It will also stop the assholes who are paying them a quarter an hour to pick strawberries etc. When they are legal their jobs will pay at least min wage. If they are making enough money to survive, they won't eventually resort to crime to get by.

There IS a reason that there are so many illegal immigrants. It's because we make it an arduous task to immigrate here. I think our land attached neighbors and even some of the surrounding Islands should get special fast tracking to immigrate here if they so choose.

[f6twister]

Originally Posted by smooth

I'll start off with the very simple exercise I would prefer to do before determining what is and is not included in the pamphlet: have you read it?

No, since I don't read or speak Spanish, I haven't read it. For obvious reasons, the Mexican government didn't publish an English version and I have not been able to find someone who translated the entire book. If anyone cares to translate the whole thing, it can be found here http://www.sre.gob.mx/tramites/consulares/guiamigrante/default.htm. As far as what is or is not included, just Google the comic name and read the 121 entries found. I read about 10-12 of them and they all say the same thing, the legal information was left out. I highly doubt this is an error. I stand by my original statement, publishing a book on how to "safely" commit illegal acts is just wrong.

Originally Posted by smooth

ok, that said, I draw a firm distinction between smuggling drugs, robbing banks, and raping victims to the crime of walking across a socially constructed demarcation of where one nation begins and another ends.

Of course there are differences between border crossing and drugs, robbery and rape but they also have something in common. All of them are still crimes. If crossing the border wasn't a crime, they wouldn't be called illegal immigrants.

[sob]

Originally Posted by Superbelt

Here's a novel idea, open the borders. Make immigration from Central America, specifically, easy. When that happens you get many positive things.

It gives you a stable flow of workers, removes the obstacle that drives them to commit the crime in the first place, and fully envelopes them into the tax system so they actually pay into all federal, state and local coffers as applicable to their wages. It will also stop the assholes who are paying them a quarter an hour to pick strawberries etc. When they are legal their jobs will pay at least min wage. If they are making enough money to survive, they won't eventually resort to crime to get by.

There IS a reason that there are so many illegal immigrants. It's because we make it an arduous task to immigrate here. I think our land attached neighbors and even some of the surrounding Islands should get special fast tracking to immigrate here if they so choose.

It's been tried. The Indians weren't enthused about the results.

[Superbelt]

What?
Please elaborate.

[Kadath]

He referring to the US "immigraton" policy of slowly taking away Indian lands and forcing them onto reservations, an amusing analogy, as it would result in the US population being forced to live in some godforsaken hole in Montana or something and all becoming alcoholics while slowly dying out. Actually, I guess that isn't so amusing. I don't think it really works, though, as A)We understand property and B)The immigrants in this case don't seem to want all the land anyway, just jobs at US minimum wage, rather than the 12 cents an hour they can pull in Latin America.

[Superbelt]

Ooh got it, I thought he meant Indians. He should remember that they are not Indians. Indian's are specific to one place only, India. The group he was talking about are Native Americans. Columbus thought he made it to India when he hit Hispanola and called him what he though they already were. You ever meet a Native American and call him an Indian to his face and you'll get an earfull.

Nice xenophobic attitude though. Why do you deserve this land and it's benefits, sob, while someone who was born as little as 100 feet from this border would not?

It's also a nice reverse analogy as the Native Americans were significantly less organized and technologically advanced than the invading Europeans who eventually forced them onto their reservations.

[The_Dunedan]

Actually, Superbelt, all the NA's I know refer to themselves interchangeably as Native Americans and Indians. The "Oh my god that's so offensive how dare you!" line seems to alternately offend and amuse them, because no Indian that I've met ever used/uses it; it's a perfect example of Leftist middle-class PC cultural Imperialism, and they'll tell you so.

[Superbelt]

Where you from?
The ones I know prefer to be identified by tribe but are fine with Native American. If they get called Indian they will correct you.

I live in Central PA with no reservations near me. All my injuns' are integrated.

[smooth]

Originally Posted by The_Dunedan

Actually, Superbelt, all the NA's I know refer to themselves interchangeably as Native Americans and Indians. The "Oh my god that's so offensive how dare you!" line seems to alternately offend and amuse them, because no Indian that I've met ever used/uses it; it's a perfect example of Leftist middle-class PC cultural Imperialism, and they'll tell you so.

well, now you've met one who does.

and I don't do it out of political correctness, but rather to assert my rightful (political) claim to this region.


but I'm weird, you won't find me referring to US citizens as Americans, so whatever.

[The_Dunedan]

Superbelt;
Western NC, up near the Cherokee reservation.

[Konichiwaneko]

Originally Posted by Superbelt

Nice xenophobic attitude though. Why do you deserve this land and it's benefits, sob, while someone who was born as little as 100 feet from this border would not?

Because we have what are call laws, and we live by our laws. If it's okay for a person to cross the border and work, in the eye of the law also its legal for us to steal from each other without repurcussion.

Does this mean I want them all booted/killed? Oh no. But it's very much argueable that if we allow people to break laws which govern us, why should we follow any laws also.

If you say "Oh they can be reasonable about it.". Yes the individual can be reasonable, but the mob cannot.

[sob]

Originally Posted by Superbelt

Ooh got it, I thought he meant Indians. He should remember that they are not Indians. Indian's are specific to one place only, India. The group he was talking about are Native Americans. Columbus thought he made it to India when he hit Hispanola and called him what he though they already were. You ever meet a Native American and call him an Indian to his face and you'll get an earfull.

Nice xenophobic attitude though. Why do you deserve this land and it's benefits, sob, while someone who was born as little as 100 feet from this border would not?

It's also a nice reverse analogy as the Native Americans were significantly less organized and technologically advanced than the invading Europeans who eventually forced them onto their reservations.

I worked in Tahlequah, Oklahoma one summer. Capital of the Cherokee Nation. They called themselves "Indians," and I respect them enough to call them the name they prefer.

Additionally, Southern California has ample INDIAN gaming facilities. See for yourself what this group calls themselves on their website.

Barona

If you would like to e-mail them in order to correct what they call themselves, be my guest.

[sob]

Originally Posted by Kadath

He referring to the US "immigraton" policy of slowly taking away Indian lands and forcing them onto reservations, an amusing analogy, as it would result in the US population being forced to live in some godforsaken hole in Montana or something and all becoming alcoholics while slowly dying out. Actually, I guess that isn't so amusing. I don't think it really works, though, as A)We understand property and B)The immigrants in this case don't seem to want all the land anyway, just jobs at US minimum wage, rather than the 12 cents an hour they can pull in Latin America.

Maybe when they first get here. If you want to see what happens after they've been here a little while,

Link

WHAT IS MEChA

The acronym MEChA stands for "Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlan." or "Chicano Student Movement of Aztlan."

MEChA is an Hispanic separatist organization that encourages anti-American activities and civil disobedience. The radical members of MEChA who refer to themselves as "Mechistas," romanticize Mexican claims to the "lost Territories" of the Southwestern United States -- a Chicano country called Aztlan. In its national constitution, MEChA calls for self-determination by its members to liberate Aztlan. MEChA's national constitution starts out: "Chicano and Chicana students of Aztlán must take upon themselves the responsibilities to promote Chicanismo within the community, politicizing our Raza with an emphasis on indigenous consciousness to continue the struggle for the self-determination of the Chicano people for the purpose of liberating Aztlán."

These anti-American "Mechistas" live with the false illusion that they are being racially discriminated against because they are Latinos while totally dismissing the idea that maybe it is their ideology that is being discriminated against.

At the MEChA National Conference on March 15 - 18, 2001, the official "MEChA Philosophy" was ratified. An excerpt from the document states: "as Mechistas, we vow to work for the liberation of Aztlan."

The MEChA Clubs on each of the Santa Barbara high school campuses are not the only ones. MEChA groups exist on 90 percent of the public high school, college and university campuses in the Southwestern United States.
WHAT IS AZTLAN?

The myth of Aztlan can best be explained by California's Santa Barbara School District's Chicano Studies textbook, "The Mexican American Heritage" by East Los Angeles high school teacher Carlos Jimenez. On page 84 there is a redrawn map of Mexico and the United States, showing Mexico with a full one-third more territory, all of it taken back from the United States. On page 107, it says "Latinos are now realizing that the power to control Aztlan may once again be in their hands."

Shown are the "repatriated" eight or nine states including Colorado, California, Arizona, Texas, Utah, New Mexico, Oregon and parts of Washington. According to the school text, Mexico is supposed to regain these territories as they rightly belong to the "mythical" homeland of Aztlan. On page 86, it says "...a free-trade agreement...promises...if Mexico is to allow the U.S. to invest in Mexico...then Mexico should...be allowed to freely export...Mexican labor. Obviously this would mean a re-evaluation of the border between the two countries as we know it today." Jimenez's Aztlan myth is further amplified at MEChA club meetings held at Santa Barbara Public Schools..

The book, paid for by American tax payers, cites no references or footnotes, leaving school children totally dependent on their teacher to separate fact from opinion and political propaganda. The book teaches separatism, victimization, nationalism, completely lacks patriotism towards the United States, and promotes an open border policy. The book is 100 percent editorial -- the opinions of the author.

WHAT IS RAZA

"La Raza" (The Race) is a broad term which refers to those whose ancestry is indigenous to the area of Mexico (or "Aztlan"). MEChA members refer to themselves as "La Raza" or "Raza," but the term itself is used to indicate camaraderie among those in different organizations with the same objectives. There are a number of organizations who consider themselves to be La Raza.

The most visible of these groups are MEChA, The Brown Berets de Aztlan, OLA (Organization for the Liberation of Aztlan), La Raza Unida Party, and the "Nation of Aztlan" to name a few. Although the activism of these organizations vary from somewhat radical to extremely radical, they share the same objectives, the "liberation of Aztlan." Each follows the Raza manifesto "El Plan de Aztlan (sometimes called "El Plan Espiritual de Aztlan"). The Nation of Aztlan, tied to La Voz de Aztlan disseminates the exact same propaganda that MEChA spreads including antisemitic propaganda. Believers in the Aztlan legend insist upon the indivisibility of "La Raza" and their common goals, one of them being the need to abolish the border between the U.S. and Mexico. There is a myriad of Raza college newspapers. Some are El Popo, Aztlan News, Chispas, Gente de Aztlan (UCLA), Voz Fronteriza (U.C. San Diego), La Voz Mestiza (U.C. Irvine) and La Voz Berkeley. It is not uncommon for the writers of these publications to refer to the U.S., as "AmeriKKKa."

Rhetoric by some Chicano educators strongly suggest Communist or Socialist leanings. Recently (May, 2000), more than 1,200 students gathered at UCLA for the seventh annual Raza Youth Conference, which the members say promotes higher education and recognition of the Aztlan culture. Sponsored by MEChA, the year's theme was "Reclaiming Our Razas through education, resistance, and promoting the idea of remembering the historical struggles of Raza" said Erika Ramirez, co-chair of the conference. The conference drew students from 80 middle and high schools and community colleges; featured speeches by those actively involved with the Chicano community.

The keynote speaker was Antonia Darder, a professor of education and cultural studies at Claremont Graduate University and director of the Institute for Cultural Studies in Education, who received a standing ovation for her speech.

Darder described American capitalism and what she said were its impacts on racism and sexism. "I grew up in a capitalist society, a society that taught us that the greed of corporations control politics," Darder said. "Capitalism is the root of domination. Racism and sexism exist because capitalism requires it." Darder said a globalized economy forced smaller countries to give up their self-sufficiency, resulting in people migrating to the U.S. "We're here because U.S. foreign policy in Latin America has forced us here," she said.

The University of Oregon Chapter of MEChA hints at its communist sentiments by posting a picture of Cuba's communist dictator Fidel Castro. On its web site, "La Voz de Aztlan" has an excerpt from a speech of February 7, 1997, by Fidel Castro who said "the United States should return to Mexico huge chunks of that country's territories it acquired more than a century ago" La Voz de Aztlan also disseminates antisemitic propaganda.

Apparently, these "Raza" cults are composed of people who unabashedly hate the United States and often support other groups and leaders who also hate America. Raza's hatred of America is so intense, that most make bedfellows to anyone else who also hates America, like dictator Fidel Castro; murderer of his own people Sadam Hussain; and the women hating Taliban -- and of course they sympathize with all Islamic Terrorists over the Israel/Palestine issue. Raza cults are the loudest and most insistent element of the immigration lobby in California. Inebriated with a sense of righteous victimhood, and entranced by myths of a heroic racial past, devotees of the Aztlan cults are rapidly extending their influence within California's Hispanic population, particularly among students in the university system.

I'd call this the "lunatic fringe" if there weren't quite so many of them.

If you need more information, I can post some of the reasons why Chicanos don't assimilate into the US culture nearly as much as other immigrants.

No problem, though. We'll just get along like Quebec gets along with the rest of Canada.

[SirSeymour]

Originally Posted by Superbelt

Here's a novel idea, open the borders. Make immigration from Central America, specifically, easy. When that happens you get many positive things.

Spoken like a man for whom English is still the native and most spoken language in his home town. Try living in the southwest in one of the border states with Mexico. There are places there where English is a second language, if it is spoken at all, for the majority of the population.

The only way I support this type of thing is if we pass an Amendment to the Constitution making English the official language of the country and adding a language requirement of some sort to immigration.

[Kadath]

Originally Posted by sob

Maybe when they first get here. If you want to see what happens after they've been here a little while,

Link



I'd call this the "lunatic fringe" if there weren't quite so many of them.

If you need more information, I can post some of the reasons why Chicanos don't assimilate into the US culture nearly as much as other immigrants.

No problem, though. We'll just get along like Quebec gets along with the rest of Canada.

Not that the website isn't sweet and all(I especially like where he has to defend himself against claims that he's racist and xenophobic with pictures of his diverse family) but reading information from MEChA as well as from their ancient detractors in pink hats might be a little more balanced. Further, I don't actually know if it's so crazy for them to want their land back. We did take it, after all. But the bottom line is, you live in LA or whatever, and I live on the East Coast, and I don't really have any sort of significant Latino immigrant population around here aside from the groundskeepers at my apartment complex. They seem like nice guys, and I speak Spanish, so we get along. If I were in your shoes, I might feel differently.

[sob]

Originally Posted by Kadath

Not that the website isn't sweet and all(I especially like where he has to defend himself against claims that he's racist and xenophobic with pictures of his diverse family) but reading information from MEChA as well as from their ancient detractors in pink hats might be a little more balanced. Further, I don't actually know if it's so crazy for them to want their land back. We did take it, after all. But the bottom line is, you live in LA or whatever, and I live on the East Coast, and I don't really have any sort of significant Latino immigrant population around here aside from the groundskeepers at my apartment complex. They seem like nice guys, and I speak Spanish, so we get along. If I were in your shoes, I might feel differently.

I'm not so sure we feel differently. I started to say that the majority of Mexicans here ARE nice, but I don't know how many are here. No one does.

That said, I wonder what the response would be if the US government made public a "how-to" guide for law enforcement and bounty hunters to sneak into Mexico and retrieve people who committed crimes in the US.

That seems to be a real "hot button."

[Cynthetiq]

Originally Posted by Superbelt

Exporting their population is a huge part of the Mexican economy. Mexicans come over, earn some dollars and send them back to their family in Mexico. It would actually be quite logical for Mexico to help teach people how to do this to make Mexico a richer nation.

Filipinos have been doing it for years.. but have done so via visa and legal visitation.

[Superbelt]

Originally Posted by SirSeymour

The only way I support this type of thing is if we pass an Amendment to the Constitution making English the official language of the country and adding a language requirement of some sort to immigration.

And I agree with that too.

[flstf]

Originally Posted by Superbelt

Here's a novel idea, open the borders. Make immigration from Central America, specifically, easy. When that happens you get many positive things.

I agree with you mostly. I consider our diversity one of our greatest strengths. Most of our families (ancestors) immigrated from somewhere else. I love the idea that the U.S. is considered the "Land of Opportunity" by many people today and in the past.

My only reservation would be the cost of today's social programs. Many if not most of our ancestors came here speaking a different language and worked at very low paying jobs but they usually supported themselves. Their children picked up the language fast. It was usually the second generation or so that finally started to realize the "American Dream".

I guess I would want to be assured that folks couldn't just cross the border and expect to be taken care of by the government. Also the language problem in the southwest mentioned by others would have to be addressed.

From what I have read most illegals come here and work very hard for minimum wages usually under the table with no benefits. The legal immigrants I have met are just as or more patriotic than us home grown citizens.

[tellumFS]

My only reservation would be the cost of today's social programs. Many if not most of our ancestors came here speaking a different language and worked at very low paying jobs but they usually supported themselves. Their children picked up the language fast. It was usually the second generation or so that finally started to realize the "American Dream".

The cost of the social benefits is a good question to be raised. But I'd imagine that with more workers paying in, it wouldn't be too much of a burden.

Personally I don't think I agree with making English as the official language of the United States. Having English being as widespread as it is now is something pretty recent (~WWII). Before then there were places in east, midwest, and west that you could go and try and speak English, but you'd have a hard time. German was pretty common throughout Minnesota and Wisconsin. Italian in New York. Chinese in parts of California. The point is, is that people will learn English. I don't think there's a need to make it official.

Besides, a little bilingual education never hurt. If anything, knowing more than one language makes you smarter.

[jimbob]

Why doesn't the Mexican government just tell its people that corporate America obeys the law and doesn't employ illegals? Then nobody would try to cross and they'd all would be safe. And wages would rise, profits would fall in the short term...hmmm so that's why they employ them!