View Single Post
Old 01-04-2005, 10:19 PM   #13 (permalink)
smooth
Junkie
 
Location: Right here
Quote:
Originally Posted by jorgelito
Maybe we should bill their government for the cost of their citizens (i.e.- health care, education, crime, crime, crime). One way we could stop it is to stop their sending money back to Mexico.
They do pay taxes. That should be sufficient, after all, they'll never see the social security money they've paid.

Now, we could look at parts of Europe to see what happens when an advanced industrial nation (with its correlate: low birth rates and extended longevity) doesn't get enough imported labor. I find it unfortunate that many citizens will fall prey to political rhetoric and cut off their noses to spite their faces.


I am not resolved to any one position:

1) on the one hand, if we are going to embrace capitalism let's not have faux-capitalism. Free movement of capital requires free movement of labor for the system to work (if such a system is indeed capable of working). I find it unfortunate that Smith's name is bandied about so readily and I can't imagine how much of his work people have actually read.

capitalists know this. Bush knows this. but a corporate agenda to push wages down and create a labor surplus is opposed to the rhetoric employed to mobalize disenfranchised citizens within the nation: on grounds that jobs will be taken up by immigrants, on racial grounds (perceived and real threats to white identity), issues of security, legalities, and etc.
Thus they run into the very real problem of how to alter to discourse to allow for immigrant labor to become legitimized while not losing credibility before the people following their past rhetoric against the people supposedly at fault for lost jobs and etc. we will see more of this attempt to shift the way things are talked about in the public and political arena in the coming years of Bush's tenure.


2) but then we run into the issue of what to do with all these people. they need money, their families depend on their remissions, they do much work others won't, they are law abiding (despite whatever reasons someone might conjure up to the contrary based on the fact that they crossed an artificial barrier to their livlihood), and on and on.

the issues have become so tangled and contradictory for both platforms, it becomes hard for myself to tease out where I'd like to stand myself, much less listen to a politician speak about the matter as if the contradictions didn't exist.



Here and other places I see people who would otherwise extoll the virtues of the free market, yet they oppose the free movement of labor. That to me is a very strange position to place oneself into. It appears at first blush that such a person would want to have his or her cake and eat it to.
__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman
smooth is offline  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360