01-26-2011, 10:52 AM | #1 (permalink) | |
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Revolution in Tunisia & Egypt, Protests in Libya, Bahrain, Oman & Yemen
here is a translation of a manifesto written in the name of "the egyptian protestors" that outlines a set of demands...at bottom, what these folk want is an end to the mubarak government and the martial law that has enabled it to remain in power since 1981...
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Protests in Egypt - live updates | World news | guardian.co.uk which gives you an idea of what's going on if you are not following. notice that the united states is watching to see which way the wind blows, but appears to be reluctant to throw mubarak under the bus because mubarak has been willing to play ball with american policies toward israel. one more reason for mubarak to go. this is an on-the-fly analysis of yesterday's protests in cairo: Egypt protests are breaking new ground | Simon Tisdall | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk as part of the wikileaks state department offering, this information about mubarak: Wikileaks: Egypt's Mubarak Likely to Remain in Office for Life | Middle East | English which parallels in many ways the information contained in the same offering about the corruption amongst the (now former president) ben ali's family. if you haven't been following, this wikipedia link is a useful overview of what happened in tunisia: 2010?2011 Tunisian uprising - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia the transition there is not over yet, btw. things are still pretty fluid. === both these events (and the turmoil that's been caused by the documents that surfaced over the past days about the obama administration selling out the palestinian peace process, caving in---again----to the israeli right) seem to me positive outcomes of the wikileaks phenomenon. in both cases, old and corrupt authoritarian regimes have been shaken fundamentally by a population that has, in the main, found many of its more cynical/accurate perceptions of the governments confirmed. the tunisian people rid themselves of ben ali. this is a good thing. what's happening in egypt is not at this point as clear-cut, primarily because, while there are reports that mubarak and his family have already left the country, it's clear at this point that the government imagines that it can contain what's happening. there's been some fatalities and about 900 arrests at this point. what do you make of what's happening? what kind of coverage are you seeing in the american press of it? why do you think that coverage is as it is? how do you see things playing out in egypt? feel free to post information that you find which seems interesting. i'm not sure about putting up background information on mubarak and the situations in egypt more broadly--i'll hold off for now...
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 01-26-2011 at 11:08 AM.. |
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01-26-2011, 11:17 AM | #2 (permalink) |
warrior bodhisattva
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I don't a have much to say at this point, as I'm slowly digesting the information that's coming out of both places.
However, I've read somewhere that the Egypt protests were, at least in part, inspired by the events in Tunisia. You brought up American media, but I think the media in general is an interesting aspect in this. What I suspect is that the Internet and social media are a big factor in how these events have unfolded. The transmission of information, the reaching of a consensus among thousands, and the galvanization/mobilization of the public has never been more quick and powerful since the advent of these technologies and the adoption of them as the primary means of communication and social sharing. And then you throw things like WikiLeaks into the mix. I suppose this means that it's become much, much more difficult to be authoritarian. Ask the Chinese.
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01-26-2011, 12:02 PM | #3 (permalink) |
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just a quick note on media coverage: yesterday there was a lot of comment from egypt about the lack of coverage from al jazeera of the protests. this was in marked contrast to the extensive coverage given the tunisian protests/revolution. the speculative explanation is not surprising: people thought that the mubarak government had made a deal with that of qatar...
al jazeera is still not giving egypt much space, really---but there's more than there was yesterday. there's little doubt that not only more centralized media forms are playing a basic role---decentralized media is pivotal. this is an interesting piece that i just stumbled across...it's arguing that ben ali was a perfect client for the united states. so the imbrication between american foreign policy and repressive dictatorships is coming to the fore: Ben Ali Tunisia was model US client - Opinion - Al Jazeera English while all the blah blah blah about "freedom" from the empire turns to wood. this could be a very complicated situation for us realpolitik...it should be interesting to watch this play out. you know, for the theater. =================== btw---here's another blog compendium, from the ny times. it includes names of some of the bloggers/twitter accounts, links to a yfrog page with photos of tuesday's demos, and links to some youtube-hosted footage. Egyptian Bloggers Report on New Unrest - NYTimes.com ==================== a mix of interesting stuff, rumor, chaos...#Jan25 on twitter.... Twitter / Search
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01-26-2011, 08:00 PM | #4 (permalink) |
Currently sour but formerly Dlishs
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here in the UAE it's headline news along with the political woes of Lebanon over the last few days. i dont watch much TV, so i dont know what al jazeera is or isnt broadcasting, but the feeling im getting here is that most arab governments are watching this closely. Most governments here are run as autocracies, and any sort of protest would be a challenge to its right to rule.
despite the protests, i dont see anything coming from this protest for the time being. I think the pivotal point is going to come about when Mubarak dies and its time to pass the mantle on. mubarak's son isnt very popular in egypt and doesnt have the popular support of the people or the government. and since he is not from a military background, doesnt have the support of the military. i see a lot of commotion when Hosni breathes his last, and its not going to be pretty i dont think.
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01-26-2011, 08:22 PM | #5 (permalink) |
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i read somewhere--twitter i think---that there are something on the order of 1.6 million people involved with "security" in egypt.
there are 83 milliion people in egypt. around 90% are in cairo. it's hard to say what a tipping point is in this kind of situation. it certainly appears at the moment that mubarak (or the apparatus that owes their various positions to him) thinks they can fight whatever it is that they are fighting...by which i mean that it may be that the state is locked into a dynamic they do not quite see (maybe) in which the attempts to fight the popular movement spread the popular movement. this is the problem/limit of direct repression. on the other hand, it's entirely possible that you're right and mubarak regime can maintain itself in place until hosni buys the farm. there are calls racing around for a show of popular dissent on friday afternoon that'd be bigger than tuesday. no way at this point to know how that'll play out, but it's out there.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
01-26-2011, 08:36 PM | #6 (permalink) |
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Location: Fort Worth, TX
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I believe the military will again decide the fate of the Egyptian government. Their budget is extremely large for their GDP, and is about the only political force which isn't fractured into a thousand fragments at the moment. The Muslim Brotherhood is organized, but their general message doesn't strike a chord with most Egyptians at the moment... but it's a kind of lesser of two evils that might catch some ground if things aren't guided well.
Really, with all the money/training/etc we've given to Egypt for free to ensure they keep the peace with Israel, I don't see anything happening without the military brass deciding and green-lighting.
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01-27-2011, 05:24 AM | #7 (permalink) | |
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thought it might be interesting to post this (and maybe others)...a very dear friend of mine and excellent writer is living in cairo. she's started documenting her experience of the protests and posting it as notes on facebook. here's one.
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01-27-2011, 09:32 AM | #8 (permalink) |
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this is a webspace from one of the main organizational nodes within the egyptian maybe-revolution (one can always hope)
We are all Khaled Said. Working against torture and inhuman treatment of Egyptians in their own country. Standing up against corruption in Egypt. very interesting updates. seaver: while in the abstract you are correct, there is a point past which it isn't possible for the military to hold a situation together, particularly if there are divisions within the military organizationally (by which i mean divisions that are not necessarily factions within the command, though that's a possibility as well). the protests this afternoon---which should be on now---will be interesting. ---------- Post added at 05:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:52 PM ---------- here's a collection of slogans from tuesday and wednesday's protests, transcribed and translated: The Angry Arab News Service/????? ????? ?????? ??????: Egyptian slogans and another link to the guardian's live blog: Protests in Egypt - live updates | World news | guardian.co.uk the protests appear to be bigger and more widespread. there is a report that el-baradi has arrived in cairo, which makes this a more explosive confrontation with mubarak regime because the main opposition leader is now in the country. this is a state dept page about egypt that gives some basic numbers concerning us aid to egypt. Egypt note the extent of support for the military. think about who's running the show. tomorrow should be interesting.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
01-27-2011, 09:41 AM | #9 (permalink) |
warrior bodhisattva
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It's all very interesting. It's interesting to see how the situations in Tunisia, Egypt, and Yemen all seem to derive from the same source of social power in the people: they are realizing they have power in coordinated movement against corruption and authoritarianism, and this is reinforced by what they see beyond their own situations....all happening at once it seems.
And I'll reiterate: I cannot see how this sort of thing could happen as such without the power of the Internet and social media. (With the exception, perhaps, of Yemen, whose population is quite impoverished compared to Tunisia and Egypt....but you never know.) It would seem that a long history of authoritarianism in a few parts of the Arab world could very well come to an end. If only we could see this happen in the oil-rich nations. NYTimes.com - Thousands Rally Against Government in Yemen
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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot Last edited by Baraka_Guru; 01-27-2011 at 09:45 AM.. |
01-27-2011, 01:57 PM | #11 (permalink) | |
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i just got this from my friend in egypt a couple minutes ago. it gives an idea of where things may be heading:
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
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01-27-2011, 07:58 PM | #12 (permalink) | |
Currently sour but formerly Dlishs
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a lot of what is happening at the moment is a result of western imperilism. propping up dictators, despots, and implementing pseudo-democracy and one man shows seemed to have been the order of the day when the middle east was being carved up. this was only a matter of time, but will definately put gulf nations at risk of being toppled. i have no doubt that the oil rich gulf nations will see this through, largely because the revolt is stamping out poverty and corruption. Both of which are probably lowest out of all arab nations, which wins the oil rich gulf states favour and support of their people.
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An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy |
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01-27-2011, 08:20 PM | #13 (permalink) |
Getting it.
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Location: Lion City
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oil rich nations have been able to buy off their opposition since oil became a useful commodity. The only nations that have seen political reform in the middle east (Iraq and Iran aside) have been the ones without oil (Lebanon and Bahrain come to mind).
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01-27-2011, 08:32 PM | #14 (permalink) |
has all her shots.
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I am a bit ashamed to say that I haven't been following the news the last few weeks. What is happening is just starting to capture my attention (and my imagination) only today. I look forward to learning more about it. thanks for the links.
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01-27-2011, 09:24 PM | #15 (permalink) |
Currently sour but formerly Dlishs
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democracy is not really democracy in lebanon. i'm not so sure how much exposure this had had in western press, but the recent toppling of the government by hezbollah as a political motive for Hairir's support of the UN report on Lebanon is worrysome.
With Hariri now replaced with the hezbollah backed Mikati, i can only pray and weep for lebanon. as much as the west wants to see many of these governments go, i think an immediate overhaul of arab nations is definately not a wise decision for neither the east nor the west. the political vacuum this will leave can only leave more room for fundamentalists to get a stronghold in government.
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An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy |
01-27-2011, 10:05 PM | #17 (permalink) | |
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Location: Fort Worth, TX
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Egypt is still ruled by the Socialist Government set by themselves. Yeah we give the government money, arms, and training... but that's simply the carrot to prevent them from re-re-re-invading Israel. Aside from Israel we don't ask anything of them nor interfere. Yemen is another government ruled completely by the Arabs in their own revolution. Hell this one is easier to pin on the Saudis and Egyptians as they were the power brokers in the decade long civil war. Each one playing Yemen to help suit their own needs and desires. If you ask me, as true as it is that England/France divided the M.E. along lines that never existed... at this point they've settled themselves out accordingly. No one is alive today from that point, they've all developed their own identities as well as toyed (and gave up on) Pan-Arabism. At this point it's whether or not they can have freedoms without letting the crazies take over as seen in Turkey, or if it'll dissolve and raise new dictatorships as seen in early Iraq.
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01-28-2011, 05:19 AM | #18 (permalink) |
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gee you'd think that this democracy via the domino theory idea would be welcomed by the united states...but of course no, because such things are just words and what really matters is that the mubarak government continue to play nice with the united states over it's degenerate and retrograde policies toward israel/palestine. so american-sponsored "freedom" is 30 years of martial law, corruption at an unimaginable scale, sclerosis at almost every level. people are rightly sick of it.
of course the government tries to pin things on the muslim brotherhood because they play well with the american line of trying to appear to support democratic movements while in fact being a straight-up neo-colonial imperial power and supporting any regime no matter how foul, so long as what is says can be squared with what the americans say in order to sell empire as if it were something else. at this point, the muslim brotherhood is not significantly involved in the protests. more or less the entire leadership was arrested over night in any event. i do not have a sense of el baradi's support more broadly.* i sometimes get the idea that he is a television figure, someone that appeals to news outlets because having a head to follow around makes things easier for tv viewers to follow. this appears to be a very widespread popular revolt that's unfolding largely on generational lines. i don't see it as necessarily being about "the crazies"---i think that's the sort of thinking that the mubarak regime would like to see out there because it justifies what they;re doing right now as we speak. protest becomes revolution when the regime caves in. personally, i hope we see the end of hosni mubarak's 30 year state of emergency very soon. meanwhile, the united states, those heros of democracy, continue to equivocate publicly. but i wonder what the back channels are like. *el baradi likely represents (and helps to coalesce) divisions within the egyptian socio-economic elites. and he's symbolically interesting. the intersections of this ore elite-driven dissent and the popular movements of this past week could be interesting, assuming that el baradi doesn't find himself being suicided out a window or some such.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 01-28-2011 at 05:51 AM.. |
01-28-2011, 09:15 AM | #19 (permalink) |
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Location: Ventura County
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Dismissing that Obama's nature and his administration is to equivocate, are you suggesting that you want US intervention? If so, what do you want the US to do?
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01-28-2011, 09:33 AM | #20 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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I'm going to post something I read this morning on Reddit that was incredibly helpful in explaining in basic terms the background and context for the current situation:
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what do you make of what's happening? It's incredible. People who have been living under the iron fist of tyranny are rising up en masse to fight for their liberty. It's inspiring. It's also a bit terrifying. A lot of people have been hurt so far, and even a few deaths. This is only going to increase in the coming days. My thoughts are with the revolutionaries. It gives me hope that the citizenry of a country under the rule of such a government can still stand up for what they believe in. I sincerely hope they succeed. what kind of coverage are you seeing in the american press of it? It's been really bizarre. They have been covering it, which is a bit more than I expected, but the information being released seems highly detached and it's being supplied with little to no context. While President Obama did mention some vague support in his State of the Union, I'm not seeing the broad support I'd like for the revolutionaries. why do you think that coverage is as it is? Forgive the generalization, but the American media is stupid. If they've decided to care, they're probably scrambling to get more information despite the fact it's been widely available the whole time. how do you see things playing out in egypt? I honestly don't know. As was said in the above quote, Egypt is not Tunisia in that it has a powerful military and police force who are likely to want to protect the status quo. Still, the people of Egypt appear very much hungry for change and the fact that the Egyptian police and government have been so heavy-handed in their response is likely to spur on more revolution. I'd give it 50/50 at this point, until more information starts coming out. |
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01-28-2011, 09:46 AM | #21 (permalink) | |
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Location: essex ma
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intervene? direct american military intervention in egypt? are you high?
a few minutes ago, hillary clinton made a statement....folk are interpreting it as a shift toward this (this is the interpretation i am biting from the guardian blog--the material its based on can be found at the linked site that follows) Quote:
egypt is the second largest recipient of american military aid in the world. it is frankly seen as payment for egyptian support of the degenerate policy the americans have adopted toward palestine/israel. so long as the americans continued to express support for mubarak, directly and indirectly, the military would be likely to support the government---prop it up after 30 years of unimaginably corrupt state-of-emergency rule. this is the first indication at all that the united states is not simply doing what it's done for years--talk the blah blah blah of "freedom" and "democracy" while supporting brutal dictatorships wherever and whenever other policy interests are served. but it's also clear that this has come after the us has been equivocating---they want to see which way the wind blows and are trying to navigate a way to contain all this revolt stuff, to channel it their way. i would prefer to see the acceleration of the collapse of the american empire and the logic that allows this residual cold-war foulness to continue. but at this point things are obviously very fluid and getting decent information is a problem. closest you'll find is al jazeera. this link takes you to their live feed: Al Jazeera English: Live Stream - Watch Now - Al Jazeera English which continues to put american infotainment "news" to shame. most communication remains cut off---the net is largely blocked into and out of egypt, cellphone communications as well....
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
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01-28-2011, 11:47 AM | #22 (permalink) | |
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Location: Ventura County
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I never suggested to know what is going on or why. The complexity in the dynamics of this issue in my view does not lend itself to knee-jerk reaction. I don't know or understand our President's philosophy or plan on these types of issues. I think Bush was a bit more clear, but his approach was thoroughly rejected in 2008. I am curious to know what "we" want and why.
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01-28-2011, 11:49 AM | #23 (permalink) | |
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Location: essex ma
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i just saw this from the associated press:
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if this is accurate, then this is the first potential tipping point. the americans are in a position to split the army away from mubarak. the wind seems to be blowing in that direction. but the situation is still fluid. interesting stuff.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
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01-28-2011, 12:25 PM | #24 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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In the past I have developed a belief that most here feel the US should not get involved in the internal matters in other nations and i would have thought that many here would be of the belief that past US involvement may be a contributing factor to the current conflict. That is the basis of my question.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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01-28-2011, 12:37 PM | #25 (permalink) |
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the us is already heavily involved with egypt. they've been instrumental in propping up mubarak for most of the 30 years of martial law he's inflicted on the egyptian people. like seaver pointed out above, the main institution through which this involvement has played out is the military. egypt is the second largest recipient of us aid, behind israel. it is clear---the wikileaks cables on this do it if it wasn't--but it was clear--that this aid owes everything to egypt's having signed a treaty with israel and in so doing become a de facto buffer in defense of american policy toward israel in the region. in exchange for that, the americans overlook appalling human rights abuses except when it suits them as under the bush regime to send people being extraordinarily renditioned so that the egyptians can fuck them up.
the obama administration had moved more publicly close to mubarak after a period of relative distance maintained by the bush people, presumably because if you're going to exploit the fact of torture you need to appear to deplore it. because that's how we roll. so the problem for the united states is pretty obvious---maintaining position across what could be a revolution. what faux news is "reporting" on this is idiotic--that "groups linked to al-qeada could come to power"----a transparent reference to the muslim brotherhood, the routine evocation of which has rarely if ever failed to turn on the financial "counter-terrorism" spigot from the americans. but the fact is that they've had nothing to do with these protests---and when they did come out in support of them yesterday, the entire leadership was almost immediately arrested. so that's out. i dont know enough about exactly what el baradi's constiuency is to say much about the role he might play, assuming that he doesn't meet with some unfortunate accident in the next day or two. but i do think the americans are hoping to manoever the army into acting independently of mubarak's government by signaling that the funding is up for review as a result of how the next days go. or the army could act in support of the government if the wind blows that way. like dlilsh said, all this is a direct consequence of american imperial policies and logic. it's exactly the opposite of the (empty) language of "Freedom" that people who live on this side of the mirror like to flatter themselves by thinking that the united states stands for. this, the opposite side of the mirror, is far more real. anyway, that's kinda where i think things are.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
01-28-2011, 01:10 PM | #26 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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You stated that the US continues to "equivocate publicly" which contrary to "cowboy diplomacy" may be the exact correct thing to do (even if it is accidental rather than purposeful), I am not sure, but what I read into your comment was that you thought it was the exact wrong thing to be doing. Your response is not clear.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
01-28-2011, 06:09 PM | #28 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Fort Worth, TX
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Mubarak is stepping down. I'm very surprised the Egyptian Military has stayed neutral, they would have been the defacto crown-assigner... and they stayed out of it. I believe the brass will ensure the Muslim Brotherhood stays suppressed and lets it roll.
Good for the Egyptians, the vast majority of the country are smart enough to stay secular... and would help be a beacon to the rest of the regions.
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"Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas |
01-28-2011, 06:23 PM | #29 (permalink) |
warrior bodhisattva
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Mubarak isn't stepping down; he's replacing the government.
He's continuing his presidency. He's appointing another government. It's a mockery of democracy. Expect more Egyptians in the streets on Saturday. They won't be appeased by this. They want Mubarak out.
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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot |
01-28-2011, 06:31 PM | #30 (permalink) | |
let me be clear
Location: Waddy Peytona
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In answering your question: "Do you support US intervention (intervention can mean things other than military use)?" I want to say YES. We should absolutely feel compelled to intervene in situations like this... as should all nations of honor. But we... apparently (due to the century-long meddling of our combined leadership) have "none". I can't see where our attempts at diplomacy can ever be trusted due to actions under the current and past (several) administrations. I believe we are a nation of generally good and honest people. I believe "we" would never knowingly support the things that have been done in our names. This must change. ... I'm out of time and should better explain my view ... but I'll need to let it go for now. BTW - I don't always agree with what you have to say, but appreciate your integrity in these debates. You never seem to get down in the gutter. It's tough not to sometimes, maybe we can all aspire to something more honorable in our daily lives and pass it on.
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01-28-2011, 08:05 PM | #31 (permalink) | |
warrior bodhisattva
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Location: East-central Canada
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Some commentary on Mubarak's decision to retain power:
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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot |
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01-29-2011, 09:17 AM | #32 (permalink) | |
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Location: essex ma
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this is one of those moments that can take someone in the states whose viewpoint is of the side of the mirror that people are told to look at here and shift them by giving them a clear view of the opposite side of that mirror....you can see the american imperial order at work, you can see how it has operated and how it continues to operate. you can see the importance of repressive, brutal tyrants like hosni mubarak for american policy. you can see how this has transcended the superficial differences between the two conservative parties that divide power amongst themselves in the american oligarchy. you can see why people around the world simply do not believe that the united states stands for any of the things it claims to stand for---how could they? ho could people demonstrating in cairo tell themselves that the american government supports their aspirations for freedom when they **know** that the united states has supported mubarak, funded and armed mubarak's regime?
fortunately almost everywhere there is still a distinction drawn between the american state/empire and the people who live in the united states---so if you hear infotainment stream talking heads say "they hate us" it's inevitably a lie---people hate the american empire, and rightly so. it should burn, and burn it will. but that empire is not the only possibility for the united states. i maintain the pollyanna belief that people in the states will be inspired by people in cairo and will dissolve the neo-liberal oligarchy before it's incoherence dissolves us. there's no hope for the "intervention" in egypt. i don't even know what that would mean. the united states is acting in/on egypt now in an attempt to maintain some control regardless of what happens---aligning with the army but not quite coming out against mubarak---empty blah blah blah in vague support of the people but nothing too strong.... i would like to see the united states come out clearly against mubarak. time to go hosni dear. retire. buh-bye. meanwhile, back in egypt: Egypt protests - live updates | World news | guardian.co.uk Quote:
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
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01-29-2011, 09:27 AM | #33 (permalink) |
warrior bodhisattva
Super Moderator
Location: East-central Canada
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That's an commendable belief, roachboy.
Unfortunately, those who are most likely to revolt in America have in mind some kind of libertarian utopia.
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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot |
01-29-2011, 10:41 AM | #35 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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btw--i just flipped on cnn for the first time in many months...after watching al jazeera's coverage off and on yesterday (until i had to wrest my life back for a while)...and the low level of the coverage is shocking. it's shallowness, it's stupidity--but **especially** the compulsive use of words like "riot" "anarchy" "looting" "fear" and "al qeada"
this is the response of american corporate infotainment to popular uprising---WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN TO OUR STUFF? WHERE ARE THE POLICE? BE AFRAID FOR YOUR STUFF. STAY ON YOUR COUCH IN FRONT OF THE TV WHERE IT'S SAFE. FREEDOM IS THE FREEDOM TO WATCH TV ON YOUR COUCH. DO NOTHING. SCARY SCARY CRIMINALS BAD. PEOPLE WHO DEMAND FREEDOM WANT TO STEAL YOUR SHIT. SCARY FREEDOM BAD. STAY INSIDE WHERE THE COMMERCIALS ARE. SCARY BAD RIOT CHAOS BAD.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
01-29-2011, 10:57 AM | #36 (permalink) |
Currently sour but formerly Dlishs
Super Moderator
Location: Australia/UAE
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Mubarak has taken the unprecedanted move of naming a vice president. the first time he's ever done that during his presidency.
im currently watching al jazeera, and Tahrir Square it still full of thousands of demonstrators, but outside in the suburbs, looting and shootings have changed the landscape of the protest. some communities have set up 'neighbourhood watch' groups to protect their suburbs from looters and thugs. There's also reports coming in right now of thugs cutting off water to suburbs. it looks like law and order has totally broken down. this is a scary situation. the body count on cnn of 25 dead is way understated. al jazeera has shown images of the dead in the morgues. in one morgue alone in Al Salam city, there are 15 dead (by gunfire) as reported by one al Jazeera reporter. Another reporter has reported 15 and 23 dead respectively even one of the most respected sunni scholars Yusuf Al Qaradawi has asked Mubarak to step down for the good of the coutry. Qaradawi is a massive voice all over the muslim world, so i think this is the nail in the coffin for Hosni. Ive spoken to some egyptians here, and they're telling me that Hosni has sent his family abroad. im not even sure if that is true or not, but its interesting nonetheless. my first post in this thread i predicted the mubarak government taking control of this, at least until mubarak's death. im eating my words here. I dont think Hosni will last the week. ---------- Post added at 04:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:54 AM ---------- btw, al qaeda hasnt even been mentioned ONCE during the last 5 hours of constant al jazeera updates.
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An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy |
01-29-2011, 11:41 AM | #37 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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apparently state television is telling people to be afraid, to organize vigilante actions...
there are reports of the ndp provoking looting. this is obviously not over yet. ---------- Post added at 07:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:23 PM ---------- still more reports coming in of the police directing looting actions. speculations are that the idea is to discredit the protest movement by creating the "chaos" that he claims to stand against. a page from the book of the algerian fln....
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
01-29-2011, 12:05 PM | #39 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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it appears that those geniuses at cnn are concerned that a threat to a radically unequal distribution of wealth and power in one place might spread to threaten radically unequal distributions of wealth and power everywhere. such reactionary and shallow drivel. the united states is not served by its corporate infotainment streams. shocking stuff.
i have to go do something else for a while. it's 11 pm in cairo. i think people will have to sleep.....
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
01-29-2011, 12:31 PM | #40 (permalink) |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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I've only watched news coverage of the protests in Egypt once and I was almost immediately dismayed by the lens of 'Americanism' through which this event is being portrayed. As if 'commentators' in America are somehow better equipped to perceive this situation than are the people on the streets of Cairo right now. It's kind of sickening. So I stick to news articles.
Perhaps it is a weakness of mine, but I can't seem to find a place in this event for my own country's best interest. I wish nothing but success for the protesters in Egypt. They have my support and my admiration.
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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
Tags |
egypt, protests, revolution, tunisia |
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