02-27-2011, 03:19 PM | #321 (permalink) |
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Location: essex ma
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i dont see the nation-state as a coherent socio-economic unit at this point...capital flows are transnational and outside the control of states; production flows, armament flows...what the nation-state remains is a military unit. since world war 2, the americans have developed the national-security state as a model---it is the preferred patronage system of the american right. from the reagan period, the national-security state, which never really made sense in any kind of democratic way (quite the contrary) during the cold war somehow managed to persist (conservative political patronage, etc.)...and the kinds of realpolitik that were of a piece with the national-security state (support for "friendly" tyrants whose friendliness was reflected in purchase of american weapons systems for example) managed to persist.
but that's coming apart. the revolutions across north africa and the middle east seem to me against neo-liberalism, against the national-security state model, against the kind of oligarchy that the united states seemed willing to present to itself and the world as if it were not a problem that is of a piece with neo-liberal/national-security states. it's against the old american empire---but not necessarily against american presence in the world as an important player. the international community has instituted no mechanism for addressing humanitarian crises since rwanda. the reactionary politics of nationalisms, of nation-states, are a central obstacle. nation-states are historically a creation of the 20th century. hopefully they'll soon be relics of an unfortunate past.
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02-27-2011, 04:11 PM | #322 (permalink) |
Getting it.
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Location: Lion City
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I think part of the fear surrounding Saudi Arabia has to do with the fact that, like other nation states in the region, because of the lack of free speech and the repressiveness of the regime, there are only two voices we ever get to hear -- the official voice of the government and the voice of fundamentalist church. Everything else is either absent or (I suspect) underground. The moderate voice has mostly been squashed into submission. The fundamentalist voice has been allowed to speak, a) because it's from a church and b) because it's mostly speaking against and laying blame at the feet of foreign powers (i.e. the US and its allies).
Add to this, the idea that the government has been buying off it's opposition (much like we see happening all around the Middle East) with oil money and concessions (eg no driving for women, etc.). So long as the moderate voice of change doesn't have a platform, change is difficult to make. I'd be a lot more comfortable about unrest in Saudi Arabia if I knew there was an alternative to the increasingly fundamentalist voices that appear to be the only other voice.
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02-27-2011, 05:12 PM | #323 (permalink) |
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Location: essex ma
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i think there is secular political opposition within saudi arabia. this blog is pretty good...
Fantastic | Crossroads Arabia in helping to get a sense of it in terms of what it is where it operates and what kind of demands/problems are potential problems. the entry that the link takes you to argues that saudi arabia isn't that different from other countries in the region, particularly in the linkages between oligarchy and choked-off opportunities for younger people in particular--it's just wealthier. and, as is clear if you read it, the writer doesn't think abdullah can simply bribe these problems away. so i suspect this information gap that shapes the concerns about saudi arabia.... note too that there are protests to come in saudi and kuwait. bahrain continues to develop. oman has had turmoil. there's a lot of trouble brewing in iraq for lots of obvious reasons. jordan's attempts to head off protests are tenuous. libya appears headed into civil war....
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
02-28-2011, 05:20 AM | #324 (permalink) |
Currently sour but formerly Dlishs
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Location: Australia/UAE
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ok, do you guys remember the journalist friend of mine who was on the turkish flotilla that was headed into israel last year?
well, he's managed to get into Libya now.. we werent sure that he'd be let in since he only arrived there a few days ago, but he's there now... here's his interesting blog! gulfnews : Libyan Diary: Eyewitness account
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An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy |
02-28-2011, 08:00 AM | #325 (permalink) | |
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Location: essex ma
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nice, dlish. interesting blog...look forward to tracking it.
here's another blogger who's tracking opposition politics as it's taking shape/surfacing in saudi arabia. Now we’re talking Saudi Jeans it looks like the "post-islamicist" character of these actions could carry over to saudi as well... meanwhile, tunisia continues to be the most advanced of the revolts; demonstrations over the weekend forced to prime minister and minister of industry and commerce to resign. that makes 2 people left who were in government under ben ali. so the pressure from below is forcing the oligarchy to relinquish power by degrees. this is a very good thing. ---------- Post added at 04:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:57 PM ---------- ======================= some additional factoids for your delectation. 1. of course, there is the trans-national armaments bazaar, pillar of neo-liberal states, center of the national-security state model, product of conservative patronage everywhere and a strong reason for advocating the breaking up of the "globalizing capitalist" system as it currently exists. it routinely produces this sort of result: Western arms helping Libyan forces massacre anti-regime rebels, EU documents reveal - Telegraph and this is not to begin speaking about the french foreign minister who was forced to resign on the weekend for offering direct aid to ben ali's government to suppress those pesky demonstrators. this before things took off, of course. back in the days of the old status quo. when such things were still routine. 2. it turns out that in the recommendation that was sent along to the international criminal court that recommended prosecution of gadhafi and/or the regime for war crimes, that there's an exemption for "mercenaries" who originate in countries which are not signatories of the rome protocol that authorizes the icc itself. why is that? Quote:
Libya: African mercenaries 'immune from prosecution for war crimes' - Telegraph 3. this, which i was tipped to via the greenwald column above, speaks for itself: Eschaton sadly.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
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02-28-2011, 01:01 PM | #326 (permalink) |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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Can you pass the Saudi Arabia quiz?
linked from another noteworthy blog: Informed Comment: Thoughts on the Middle East, History and Religion
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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
03-01-2011, 07:09 AM | #327 (permalink) |
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Location: essex ma
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the saudi quiz is really interesting. good find.
here's something from foreign policy outlining in some detail why saudi arabia is a prime candidate for a revolt: Yes, It Could Happen Here - by Madawi Al-Rasheed | Foreign Policy
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
03-01-2011, 09:57 AM | #328 (permalink) |
Currently sour but formerly Dlishs
Super Moderator
Location: Australia/UAE
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the quiz was quite interesting. some of the answers were a surprise.
is $36B going to keep the saudis quiet? and for how long? the arab youth are fed up with the level of disservice their tyrant leaders have delivered in the last 50 years. no amount of money can stop the fervour and yearning of freedom. In Syria the government has said that they will spend 250M on reform, Kuwait has said it will give free food for a year and pay for utilities, Saudi will write off bank debts and spend $36B, Oman will write off bank debts and create jobs etc etc. These regimes have milked their countries dry since WW2, and think that bribing their constituants will taper their peoples yearning for freedom.
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An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy |
03-01-2011, 10:01 AM | #329 (permalink) |
Still Free
Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!
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dlish -
10 yard penalty, gross misuse of the word constituent! constituent - one who authorizes another to act as agent
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03-01-2011, 10:27 AM | #330 (permalink) |
warrior bodhisattva
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Yes, neither a monarch nor a despot have constituents.
I think dlish meant "subjects."
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03-01-2011, 11:10 AM | #331 (permalink) |
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Well that's the convenient thing about subjects, you rarely have to give a shit what they think. BTW, aren't you two subjects? Prince Willie is going to have a right nice wedding on your dime.
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03-01-2011, 11:24 AM | #332 (permalink) | |
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Location: essex ma
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what it looks like when tens of thousands of people try to cross a border. libya/tunisia version
YouTube - unhcr's Channel Quote:
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03-01-2011, 12:17 PM | #333 (permalink) |
Currently sour but formerly Dlishs
Super Moderator
Location: Australia/UAE
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yeah my bad cimm. constituents is definately the wrong word to use in this instance. But i'd prefer you use the word metre instead of yard please :P
yeah im a subject, but i'm not forking a dime for Big Willies Wedding living in a tax free country for the last 4 years and havent paid a penny in tax since i left. Willie can go and spend all he wants on his pissy wedding. Im not even sure if Australia contributes any money towards the monarchy either. But I cant wait for the next referendum on whether we should become a republic. I'll show him what i think of them. Damn pommies... ahhh democracy...
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An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy |
03-01-2011, 12:52 PM | #334 (permalink) | |
warrior bodhisattva
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Location: East-central Canada
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Quote:
Our head of state may be a monarch, but the state is actually governed by parliamentary powers. You see, your head of state is also a part of your government, in addition to being your military commander-in-chief and your chief diplomat. If anything, your president is more like a monarch to your nation than the Queen is to ours. /threadjack No, wait! I think Saudi Arabia should become a constitutional monarchy!
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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot |
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03-01-2011, 01:17 PM | #335 (permalink) |
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So, what you are saying is that I actually have a positive ROI with my "monarch" and you are the sucker who pays for a monarch and gets nothing in return...except pictures of the really pretty houses they live in...on your dime? Hey, you do like distribution of wealth and they are the premier parasites. You are living your dream, baby!
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Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly." |
03-01-2011, 01:38 PM | #336 (permalink) |
warrior bodhisattva
Super Moderator
Location: East-central Canada
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We only pay the Queen when she's "queening it up" on our behalf. It's like less than a buck fifty per capita. So for the price of a cup of coffee, I support the awesome idea of having someone as esteemed and distinguished as Her Royal Majesty the Queen of Canada Elizabeth II.
No, seriously. The Crown is compensated for things that the Royal Family and the Governor-General (and the lieutenants) do on our behalf. Much of that is for ceremonies, honours, and designations. A part of our heritage, a part of our national pride. Many artists dream of one day winning a Governor-General's Award and many hard-working Canadians have been given the distinction of the Order of Canada, both of which are bestowed upon them by the Governor-General on behalf of Her Majesty. But if you simply look at the big picture, the powers that the president has is simply distributed between a few people: the prime minister, the Queen, and the Governor-General. /threadjack (for reals)
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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot Last edited by Baraka_Guru; 03-01-2011 at 01:48 PM.. |
03-01-2011, 02:22 PM | #338 (permalink) |
immoral minority
Location: Back in Ohio
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I think that we should tell the pilots to fly north and land in Malta (or some other remote air strip) or else get shot down. We can tail them in our fighter jets, but there is no reason to blow up perfectly good jets or not let the pilots live (they get shot if they don't fly, they get blown out of the sky if they do)
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03-01-2011, 04:19 PM | #340 (permalink) | |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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Quote:
__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
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03-01-2011, 07:47 PM | #341 (permalink) |
Currently sour but formerly Dlishs
Super Moderator
Location: Australia/UAE
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so how can these oil rich states make this problem go away? its facebook's fault after all isnt it? ohhhh..i know, let's buy out facebook!
Saudi Arabia denies offering $150bn to buy Facebook
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An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy |
03-01-2011, 08:08 PM | #342 (permalink) |
warrior bodhisattva
Super Moderator
Location: East-central Canada
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Wow. Just to put that into perspective, Facebook's market capitalization is around $50 billion. Google's is just over $193 billion.
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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot Last edited by Baraka_Guru; 03-01-2011 at 08:12 PM.. |
03-01-2011, 09:09 PM | #343 (permalink) |
Getting it.
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
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Wow. If that really happened, it would be a very interesting turn of events. Somehow, I think it's just a lot of hot air.
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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke |
03-02-2011, 06:07 AM | #344 (permalink) |
Still Free
Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!
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I think it would be really cool to try to enforce Sha'ria on Facebook! Women's avatars could get virtually stoned after they posted their springbreak pics.
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Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly." |
03-02-2011, 06:21 AM | #345 (permalink) |
warrior bodhisattva
Super Moderator
Location: East-central Canada
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Nah, with the resources of Saudi Arabia, they'd surely come up with a killer mandatory app for
Now picture all the shots of Panama City Beach of spring break, with all the CG abayas as far as the eye can see. Don't worry, you will still see all those young girls' eyes smiling.
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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot Last edited by Baraka_Guru; 03-02-2011 at 06:24 AM.. |
03-02-2011, 09:50 AM | #346 (permalink) |
Currently sour but formerly Dlishs
Super Moderator
Location: Australia/UAE
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cimmaron - its spelt Shari'a. Just saying
well i think it would be a swell idea to buy facebook out. think about it. instead of spending $36billion on your people for reforms without ever recouping those costs, why not buy out face book for 150B, give those jobs to saudis and still have a thriving business that generates more money for the government. whilst at the same time shutting down one of the mouthpieces of your opponents. im sure somebody would have tabled this in a meeting somwhere. This has got winner written all over it.
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An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy |
03-02-2011, 10:26 AM | #347 (permalink) | |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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this is pretty great.
Quote:
Kate Adie: The Gaddafi I knew | World news | The Guardian
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03-03-2011, 07:28 AM | #348 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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on the precariousness of the american position in all this and a demonstration of the idiocy behind neo-con claims that the bush administration is in any way vindicated by people trying to make a democratic path for themselves.
Rage Comes to Baghdad | Foreign Affairs
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
03-03-2011, 07:52 AM | #349 (permalink) |
warrior bodhisattva
Super Moderator
Location: East-central Canada
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Re: Western Intervention
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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot |
03-03-2011, 08:59 AM | #351 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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o, i was reading something about the plight of the neo-cons on foreign policy in the washington post i think on the weekend. for reasons i will never quite understand, the paper actually sent someone out to interview the range of fossils from the bush period--you know wolfowitz and abrams and so on. some of them were arguing that line, that the bush people had it right. which made the foreign policy piece about the growing protest movement in iraq---which curiously gets little press here in the u s of a go figure---kinda apposite.
you know.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
03-03-2011, 10:30 AM | #352 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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Quote:
Quote:
Do you even stand with those wanting democracy in the ME? Do you support freedom of expression, including the practice of a religion other than Islam in the ME? What about homosexuality in the ME, do you stand in support of any rights for homosexuals in the ME? Or are you all about the pretense, perhaps the switch from one form of tyranny for another? I guess your views are too complicated, I don't expect any type of a rational response. Just tell me, again, about how wrong it is to post something from IBD.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." Last edited by aceventura3; 03-03-2011 at 10:33 AM.. |
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03-03-2011, 10:45 AM | #353 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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ace, don't be an ass. did you actually read the foreign policy article i posted above? or is that too much to expect?
if you're not going to even pretend to engage with the same information stream, why do you waste your time---and mine and that of everyone who is importuned by your posts?
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
03-03-2011, 10:54 AM | #354 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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03-03-2011, 11:01 AM | #355 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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the comment was about the article, a teaser for it.
you haven't offered fuck all in the way of a coherent counter even for that, and basically acknowledge that you didn't read the article. great job. it's a waste of time interacting with you.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
03-03-2011, 11:18 AM | #356 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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Quote:
The words you used where your words, the did not come from the article. The words you used distorted the article and the truth. Quote:
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." Last edited by aceventura3; 03-03-2011 at 11:21 AM.. |
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03-03-2011, 12:03 PM | #357 (permalink) | ||
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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this is an interesting account of watching egyptian television for the coverage of the debate between then prime minister shafik and folk from the opposition:
Egyptian Chronicles: Unforgettable night in the Arab TV history following on which: Quote:
so the egyptian revolution makes another step, following more or less the pattern in tunisia (more or less).... meanwhile, in iraq, from the foreign policy article quoted above: Quote:
no resemblance. no relation between the bush "democracy" and the democracy that people are now demanding. no way to justify bushwar by pointing to what's going on now. because in the heart of bushwar, it's corruption and incompetence and an inability to deliver basic services. cronyism and stupidity and an increasingly restive population. with the american military acting to suppress protests demanding democracy. here's a country-by-country summary from the ny times: Middle East Protests: A Country-by-Country Look - Interactive Feature - NYTimes.com and here is a peter singer edito from al jazeera about the question of intervening in libya, one which i do not think has been posed correctly much less resolved: Global Justice and Intervention - Opinion - Al Jazeera English
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
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03-03-2011, 12:12 PM | #358 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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Quote:
Quote:
It is all about the economy, even in Iraq. My new hero.
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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03-03-2011, 01:27 PM | #359 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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right. nothing to see here, folks. ace has determined that the Problem in iraq has nothing to do with incompetence or corruption or american colonial domination.
rather is "the economy stupid" which is exactly correct----it is stupid to imagine that the economy is separable from the political institutions that enable it, that channel it and limit it and so on, so it is in fact only the stupid who would think that "the economy stupid" taken in isolation is in fact an explanation for much of anything. but it makes some sense that american conservatives would try to enforce such a split given the debacle for they've presided over in these pathetic neo-liberal times, the largest redistribution of wealth toward the top 1 percent in terms of wealth ever seen, the consolidation of the entertainment-security complex, the continuation against all reason of the national-security state, a massive expansion of prisons as an instrument of class warfare, the institution of an intellectual-integrity optional approach not only to politics but information...lots to answer for....so it's not a real shock that its the economy stupid would emanate from those waters. i don't think anyone else in the world is fooled by this nonsense. certainly not the people protesting in iraq. certainly not those in libya or egypt or tunisia. or algeria or morocco or bahrain or oman or yemen. nor in most of the united states. just over there in the shrinking island of the american right.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 03-03-2011 at 01:36 PM.. |
03-03-2011, 01:41 PM | #360 (permalink) |
warrior bodhisattva
Super Moderator
Location: East-central Canada
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But there's nothing wrong with the economy in Iraq. The GDP growth in 2010 was 5.5%, which was almost double that of the U.S. and isn't too shabby compared to red-hot India (8.2%) and the Chinese dragon (10.3%).
Why the unrest? The economy is doing fiiine...
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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot |
Tags |
egypt, protests, revolution, tunisia |
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