02-18-2009, 12:29 PM | #201 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
|
Quote:
When did the economy recover from the Depression? When did the stock market crash? When did it reach a new peak after the crash? What was the average unemployment rate during FDR's Presidency? If you begin to honestly look at the answers to those questions, your perseption may change.
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
|
02-18-2009, 12:52 PM | #202 (permalink) |
Banned
|
Filterton for god sakes, talk a bout sticking with a line of argumentation, and I've only been on this for two posting sessions.
Noone has dissputed any of the behaviors I mentioned earlier, nor have they confronted them when they happen on this very board. Just making that clear, I'll just copy these down and paste them every time you bring up how persecuted liberal thought is. And a relatively minor point of fact mentioned 6 months ago, has put filterton in a sort of cognitive quicksand. sorry dude. Get over it. |
02-18-2009, 12:58 PM | #203 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
|
Quote:
By all means, keep asking for evidence and keep on pedantically denying the relevance of any evidence actually offered. |
|
02-18-2009, 07:28 PM | #204 (permalink) | |
Crazy, indeed
Location: the ether
|
Quote:
And see that bump up in unemployment in 1938? That was the one year FDR tightened the budget a bit. So dropping the unemployment rate about 3% a year sounds pretty good to me. |
|
02-18-2009, 07:51 PM | #205 (permalink) | |
Tone.
|
Quote:
If you watch a typical republican interview on TV, they use tactics exactly like this. You ask them why they did X. They deny doing X. You show them a videotape of them doing X. They still deny doing X, and pretend the tape never happened. It's really amazing how slickly they pull this off but, ya know what? The public isn't fooled by that crap anymore, because the lies and incompetence have finally hit them in the pocketbook rather than having a theoretical future negative result. |
|
02-19-2009, 09:41 AM | #206 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
||
02-19-2009, 10:16 AM | #207 (permalink) |
Tone.
|
Well then we must all be hallucinating this crappy economy, because we're in the middle of 2 wars, war production is high, and yet the economy's in the crapper. If the war pulled us out of the Great Depression then why are we in a major recession despite having been at war for 8 years?
|
02-19-2009, 10:18 AM | #208 (permalink) | |
Darth Papa
Location: Yonder
|
Quote:
It was actually the post-war era when the real results started showing up on the street, economically speaking. By then there were LOTS of factors coming to bear on the economy well beyond simple government expenditure. In that sense, it's not really accurate to say that war spending was what ended the Great Depression. At least, it's an oversimplification. |
|
02-19-2009, 10:29 AM | #209 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
|
but even if that argument held--which leans on the quite non-conservative claim that the american capitalist system was once geared around over-production and required ways to dump that over-production in order to operate at anything like full capacity---which is the war economy argument....even if that held, what possible relation would there be between the 1930s and 40s in terms of geography of production and the contemporary period, which insofar as the united states is concerned in particular, is one of deindustrialization?
this is not unlike the other rb's question above, but gets to another register of problem as well.
__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
02-19-2009, 10:54 AM | #210 (permalink) | |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
|
Quote:
Reagan started it by taking away the lucrative contracts. Then we got "free trade".... Now, we are at war but our industry doesn't produce anything. The R&D contracts don't help put people to work, the infrastructure has been largely ignored and is falling apart. We rely on steel, cars, and manufacturing from overseas so a war isn't pulling us out like last time. If anything it is hurting us because we became reliant on the goods from other countries. So to compare how WW2 brought us out and how this war isn't helping is foolish. Times are different. In WW2 we were self reliant and produced.... this war we are dependent and have little production and that which we do have is in severe trouble because of our reliance on foreign made goods.
__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
|
02-19-2009, 11:52 AM | #211 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
|
Quote:
-----Added 19/2/2009 at 02 : 58 : 32----- Quote:
We can dance around the central question all day long but at the root Keynesian people won't address the question of - when does government spending begin to have a negative impact on economic growth? There simply is no free ride with government spending.
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." Last edited by aceventura3; 02-19-2009 at 11:58 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
||
02-19-2009, 12:11 PM | #212 (permalink) | |||
Tone.
|
Quote:
Quote:
Admittedly, but to claim that FDR's new deal had nothing to do with getting us out of the depression, and that the war had everything to do with it, is equally foolish. Giving shitloads of money to the corporations isn't what saved us in the 30's. Giving money to the middle class, who went out and bought stuff, is what saved us. Quote:
|
|||
02-19-2009, 12:16 PM | #213 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
|
Quote:
. I wonder if Kaynsian's believe the law of diminishing returns applies to fiscal policy or spending by the government. I can accept that government spending on something like education, when there was no previous spending on education could have a positive impact on economic growth. However, I think the benefit of government spending on education quickly diminishes when a basic infrastructure for education is in place and that additional spending by government becomes inefficient and wasteful. And that after a basic education infrastructure is in place private sector spending will be the most beneficial. I think you mis-characterize the intent of American capitalism. I think it is geared to equilibrium production or equilibrium period and not over production. I think that explains our normal business cycles. Over-production is followed by under-production, which is followed by over-production, etc, all in search of equilibrium. If you argue this is inefficient I only agree to the point that sometimes the feedback mechanism is inefficient. However, I think this feedback mechanism will almost always be more efficient in the private sector than in the public sector.
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
|
02-19-2009, 12:19 PM | #214 (permalink) | ||
Darth Papa
Location: Yonder
|
Quote:
But look, the other options are: - Put money into the top of society so it trickles down (Which is absurd, because you really think the rich got rich by giving money away? That's been a losing hand for 90% of America for the last 20 years.) - Manipulating interest rates (A reasonable tool that broke irretrievably the day the fed set the overnight lending rate at 0% and the TED spread didn't move an inch.) What else are you going to do, ace? Sit it out and hope the unemployment bomb doesn't drop on you or someone you love? Okay, fine, as a private citizen, you might do that. But if you're the president, what do you do? Tell people to keep hope alive while they collect social security? You gotta do something, don't you? You were elected to do something. What would YOU do? Quote:
Last edited by ratbastid; 02-19-2009 at 12:28 PM.. |
||
02-19-2009, 12:27 PM | #215 (permalink) | |||
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
|||
02-19-2009, 12:39 PM | #216 (permalink) | ||||
Tone.
|
Quote:
But either way, the government's gonna have to spend money. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
It is disingenuous to the hilt to proclaim as excellent and prosperous the economic theories which ended in a tremendous financial crash felt around the globe. |
||||
02-19-2009, 12:42 PM | #217 (permalink) | |||
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
|||
02-19-2009, 01:07 PM | #218 (permalink) | |
Darth Papa
Location: Yonder
|
Quote:
|
|
02-19-2009, 01:23 PM | #219 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
|
Quote:
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
|
02-19-2009, 05:23 PM | #220 (permalink) | |
Crazy, indeed
Location: the ether
|
Quote:
|
|
02-21-2009, 12:51 AM | #221 (permalink) | |||
Cunning Runt
Location: Taking a mulligan
|
Quote:
Quote:
That claim may, however, serve a purpose in distracting us from other aspects of Obama's performance: U.S. sticks with Bush position on Bagram detainees | Reuters Quote:
Obama = Hitler!
__________________
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher |
|||
02-21-2009, 01:36 AM | #222 (permalink) |
Crazy, indeed
Location: the ether
|
the idea that somehow saying that it was the second world war that ended the great depression goes against Keynesian principles is one of the biggest puzzles around for me. "No, it wasnt government intervention aimed at building stuff at home that ended the great depression, it was government intervention aimed at destroying things abroad that did it." As if from an economic perspective building bombs and planes that are going to be destroyed abroad was completely different from doing, well, anything within the US borders... If anything, that perspective says that government spending and interventions should be much, much larger than it actually is right now. Maybe the US should declare a pretend war against the bottom of the ocean and spend massive amounts of money on creating a hole at the bottom of the ocean.
|
02-21-2009, 03:15 AM | #223 (permalink) |
Psycho
|
Heres my take on it simplified and in a nutshell:
Money coming in from countries buying American goods such as food, supplies, guns, planes and tanks for their own war effort was a huge contributor in spending us out of the Great Depression. The post war boom was primarily funded by foreign countries buying American goods to rebuild all that was destroyed during the war. Even though we are in two wars now things aren't the same because most of our war effort is imported rather than exported as it was back then. The idea that spending a trillion dollars to build bridges and changing light bulbs in government buildings without generating any real wealth is somehow going to miraculously drag us out of a terrible recession long term is asinine to say the least. It will definitely help short term but it's not a long term fix by any stretch of the imagination. Until we get the trade deficit turned around and start deporting goods and importing foreign monies again things are only going to get worse over the long term.
__________________
"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson |
02-21-2009, 06:24 AM | #224 (permalink) | ||
Location: Washington DC
|
Quote:
Five years of negative GDP growth between '28-'33, followed by eight years of economic growth when the New Deal programs kicked in (rising GDP, with the exception of '37 when FDR cut New Deal spending).....all of which took place before any war spending. BTW, the "lend-lease" policy of supplying the UK, France, USSR (and other allies) with war materials didnt start until early "41. To what do you attribute those eight years of pre-war sustained economic growth if not the spending and job creation programs of the New Deal? ---------- Post added at 09:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:20 AM ---------- Quote:
It is a short term initiative to hopefully stop the continued downward slide and stabilize the economy.
__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 02-21-2009 at 06:27 AM.. |
||
02-21-2009, 06:44 AM | #225 (permalink) |
Tone.
|
If you want a long term fix, start with the outsourced jobs. We have fewer jobs in this country ever since companies started outsourcing the jobs to China and other countries. This one's easy to fix. "Hey 3M. . .How much money did you save last year by using workers in Taiwan instead of your own country? 700 million? Guess how much your taxes just went up."
Then start actually making shit here again. We have no heavy industry, medium-heavy industry is decimated. . .We don't make anything anymore. We aren't generating wealth, we're just moving theoretical money around in computer systems. That's no way to run an economy. We've been arguing a lot on whether or not the New Deal brought us out of the depression. The "war saved us" guys do have a point - - we made a bunch of crap for that war. Actually made it. And when the war was over, the factories made other things which were bought by Americans. This one's gonna be different because even if people get money again, a lot of it is gonna go overseas. Want a new TV? Will that be Toshiba, Sony, or Panasonic? Want a new car? Well the only viable choice, especially right now with the US companies in so much trouble, is between Germany or Japan. Maybe Korea if you don't mind burning oil after 50k miles Hell even our kids toys. . .Even /pencils/ are made in China. We need to get back to making stuff again, as that provides not only things for people to buy, but jobs to give them money to buy it with. And all this crap about "it's a GLOBAL economy" is bumkus. If it were a true global economy then we wouldn't be able to hire some Chinese guy for 1 cent on the dollar. If it were a true global economy then there wouldn't be any such thing as trade deficits because it would be all one economy. It's not a global economy, that's just the excuse the asshole corporations use to explain why they're employing some 14 year old in Malaysia at slave wages instead of making good jobs available to the people that they want money from. |
02-21-2009, 08:05 AM | #226 (permalink) | |
Crazy, indeed
Location: the ether
|
Quote:
|
|
02-21-2009, 05:18 PM | #227 (permalink) | |
Psycho
|
Quote:
---------- Post added at 01:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:00 AM ---------- I guess you could say that however I don't think the Great Depression affected the world economy like our current banking crisis has. There was a great demand for US goods and we profited with good paying jobs which helped bring us out of the gutter. This time there is no demand for US goods and no wealth flowing in from around the world. Once the trillion or three is spent and we begin paying interest with no money flowing in how long to you suppose Keynes theory will hold up? Keynes theory or not we can't continue to have a negative trade imbalance while shuffling the same money and notes between banks and ever have any hope of sustained growth.
__________________
"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson Last edited by scout; 02-21-2009 at 05:06 PM.. |
|
02-22-2009, 08:41 PM | #228 (permalink) | |
Cunning Runt
Location: Taking a mulligan
|
Here is a result of Obama's policies, both past and present. His "community organizing" with ACORN goes way back. The $31 million in taxpayer money they've received is apparently not enough for these thugs.
This is what you get when the president of the US tells you it's acceptable to renege on your mortgage payments. Someone on Youtube claims to have dug up some public records information on this poor, unfortunate woman: Quote:
Can we steal from the law-abiding to give to the lawless? YES WE CAN!
__________________
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher |
|
02-22-2009, 09:02 PM | #229 (permalink) | |
Crazy, indeed
Location: the ether
|
Quote:
|
|
02-23-2009, 05:47 AM | #230 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
|
Quote:
What I want to know, is how much money Bill Ayers is getting out of the stimulus? |
|
02-24-2009, 08:44 AM | #231 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
|
Quote:
Here is the M1 money supply in billions: 1931 - 24.1 1932 - 21.1 1933 - 19.9 1934 - 21.9 1935 - 25.9 1936 - 29.6 1937 - 30.9 1938 - 30.5 1939 - 34.2 http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/depmon.htm Here is total government expenditures (first column) and total government "Civil and miscellaneous" expenditures (second column 1931 - 4.0 - 1.1 1932 - 5.1 - 2.1 1933 - 5.1 - 2.1 1934 - 7.1 - 4.6 1935 - 7.3 - 4.3 1936 - 8.8 - 4.1 1937 - 8.1 - 4.7 1938 - 7.7 - 4.9 One interesting note regarding the drop in spending between 1937 and 1938 - in 1937 there was 2.3 billion spent by the Bureau of Pension and Veterans Administration and 1.1 billion spent in 1938 and actual spending in the area of Civil and miscellaneous went up. And next let's look at the actual deficit (first column) and tax receipts (second column). 1931- (.9) - 3.1 1932 - (3.1) - 2.0 1933 - (3.0) - 2.0 1934 - (3.9) - 3.1 1935 - (3.5) - 3.8 1936 - (4.7) - 4.1 1937 - (2.8) - 5.2 1938 - (1.5) - 6.2 http://www2.census.gov/prod2/statcom...ts/1937-07.pdf 1901-1950 Statistical Abstracts When I look at the data I don't see government spending or government deficit spending as the driver of our recovery from the depression the depression. I do think there is a clearer connection with money supply growth and economic recovery. I do give government credit for that, however I still hold that deficit spending does not have a lasting positive impact on the economy and that increased taxes or increased inflation cancels any positive impact of deficit spending.
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
|
02-24-2009, 09:00 AM | #232 (permalink) | |
Crazy, indeed
Location: the ether
|
Quote:
And while the increase in the money supply had a great deal to do with the recovery, there are two important points: - we are already at 0% fed rates. This is a liquidity trap, additional money will not help. Only fiscal stimulus will. - You seem to be holding on to what in the 1920s was called the treasury view. I.e., one dollar in deficit today means an proportionally equal increase in taxes tomorrow. But this is not the case, because of three variables: the multiplier, the velocity of money circulation, and interest rates. So in other words, spending today will increase the velocity of the circulation of money. As long as the multiplier is not zero or negative, then we are talking about that dollar generating additional growth. So that dollar you spend today becomes that dollar + whatever growth you have tomorrow. As long as that dollar today + interest rates are not more than that, you are paying back proportionally less than what you spent. Now, this means that in situations when you have a growing economy, deficit spending simply will crowd out private investment. This is true and this took place during the Bush years, which is why I think anyone concerned with fiscal discipline should have said something 4 years ago, not now. But all of this also means that in situations where the economy is tanking, and interest rates are very low and the economy is still falling, any deficit spending will have a net positive effect. In a economy where tbond yields are close to 0%, and where the fed rate is 0%, government spending is not crowding out private spending. Any growth the govt. spending generates, even if temporary and very, very small, means that the one dollar they are spending today will be repaid by less than a dollar tomorrow. |
|
02-24-2009, 09:07 AM | #233 (permalink) |
Junkie
|
There was an interesting story on NPR today about Japan's "lost decade". Essentially their real estate market crashed just like ours and through them into a recession. At first they tried to lower interest rates and even lowered them down to almost 0% but it didn't help at all. In the end they had to do lots of deficit spending to get out of the recession.
|
02-24-2009, 09:24 AM | #234 (permalink) | ||||
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
|
Quote:
Quote:
They could also give back tax dollars to people who pay taxes, but we know that is not going to happen but let's give more money to failing banks, auto companies, home owners, and state governments like California. Screw those doing the right thing and those who can actually have a positive impact on economic growth. ---------- Post added at 05:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:14 PM ---------- Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
||||
02-24-2009, 09:40 AM | #235 (permalink) | |
Crazy, indeed
Location: the ether
|
Quote:
I dont think you got what I was saying. The point is not to "fool" ourselves, but to provide growth during a recession. Then as the economy pulls out of it, you can cut spending. Now, as far as the money supply goes, the m1 fetish is severely outdated. Interest rates matter more nowadays than targeted money supply, and we are already at 0. It is not generational theft, as I pointed out that there is a net social profit from that spending. In any case, it is damn dishonest for McCain to talk shit like that after he approved the last 8 years of deficit spending. Specially when the republican response is "more tax cuts." Bush already generated 32 trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities for the next generation, and McCain was right there with him. And with regards to the great depression, people might argue about the role of govt. spending, but virtually every economist saw at least some usefulness in at least part of the new deal. Not that everything was great, but there were a great many programs that helped. And with regards to the current situation, only the republican faithful see no role for fiscal stimulus. When even Greg Mankiw, Posner, and Gary Beck see a role for fiscal stimulus (although they disagree with the democrats on the shape of the stimulus), you know it is needed. |
|
02-24-2009, 10:39 AM | #236 (permalink) | |||||
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Also, the "stimulus" bill was not really a stimulus bill, it is a spending bill and they sold it as a stimulus bill. Many of the projects were already planned and money was going to be spent on them anyway. That is not new spending. In some cases the federal government is spending money that the states would have spent. That is not new spending. The government targeting "green" industries may prove to be wasteful and have unintended consequences, like the past focus on ethanol subsidy and the impact those subsidies had on the cost of food. Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
|||||
02-24-2009, 10:53 AM | #237 (permalink) | |
Crazy, indeed
Location: the ether
|
Quote:
Now, of course, debt today has to be repaid tomorrow. But one dollar today is not worth the same as one dollar tomorrow. In a growing market, where interest rates are high, one dollar today means several dollars of debt tomorrow, so deficits hurt the economy by taking out several dollars out of circulation in the future. But with 0% interest rates and a tanking economy, it is much preferable to spend it today, because the debt will you need to repay tomorrow is worth significantly less. So as long as that spending generates SOME stimulus, you are talking about about repaying that debt with just a portion of the investment. |
|
02-24-2009, 11:10 AM | #238 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
|
Quote:
For most consumers, they pay over 7% for a 48 month car loan, over 11% for a 24 month personal credit card loan, and on average 13.36%. http://online.wsj.com/public/resourc...nts/bbcncr.pdf
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
|
02-24-2009, 12:01 PM | #239 (permalink) | |
Crazy, indeed
Location: the ether
|
Quote:
As a matter of monetary policy, the federal funds rate is between 0-0.25% FRB: Monetary Policy, Open Market Operations As a matter of borrowing from the private sector, yields for short term treasury bills are closing in on 0 fast |
|
02-24-2009, 12:45 PM | #240 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
|
The Federal Funds rate is the overnight rate banks pay. The purpose is so banks maintain liquidity in order to meet the demands of customers given fractional reserves.
What is real, outside of government bailouts for banks, in this current environment, is kinda what Buffet did when he invested $5 billion in Goldman Sachs. He is getting a 10% dividend, plus any upside in the stock price after $115. His investment puts him ahead of common shareholders. If Goldman could have gotten 0%, they certainly would not have done the Buffet deal. Quote:
Here is what the government is paying: True it is low and less than last year, but above 0%. People are seeking the safety of investing in the US. It is ironic that the world has so much confidence in the fundamental strength of the US economy and our ability to return principle accepting almost no risk premium - but our President has almost no confidence in the fundamental strength of the economy feeling only his actions can avoid a disaster of the scope we have never seen before....give me a break Mr. President. Just like Buffet stepped in with Goldman, others would have stepped in with other financial institutions if the deals made sense.
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." Last edited by aceventura3; 02-24-2009 at 12:48 PM.. |
|
Tags |
obama, performance |
|
|