matthew330

Seroiusly it ends now.
/end threadjack, I'm done. where the hell is spellcheck.

timalkin

We can't have an honest discussion about race in this country when white people who don't see a need to continue propping minorities up are labeled as either stupid, racist, or both.

__________________
Trinity: "What do you need?"

Neo: "Guns. Lots of guns."

-The Matrix

roachboy

it's not so easy.

what you think or derive follows from the information and the rules you impose on yourself.
if you work with a problematic framework, even a intelligent, not racist person can come to bizarre-o conclusions.
the discussion, were there to be one, would be about the information that is included or excluded and the rules for moving through that information.
and i'm pretty sure that were we to have a discussion about this, you wouldn't be able to defend how your positions are built, timalkin.

so it's just convenient--you know---to pretend instead that it follows from some superificial rejection of a conservative viewpoint and to complain about it.

if you want to have an actual discussion, then fine--let's do it.
otherwise, i have reality tv shows to watch.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

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pan6467

My point is, I heard all the news articles that stated 33% of Democratic white males were going to vote for McCain just because of race and how wrong and prejudicial that is. {Didn't happen, but that was placed out there.}

Yet, no one can dare point out that there were blacks that voted for Obama based solely on race. Isn't that prejudicial and just as wrong as the above McCain scenario that was played out to IMHO guilt some people into voting for Obama. Making them believe that perhaps they were voting for McCain simply because he was white and that would be wrong so.....

Yet, I never heard ANYONE say, 95% of all blacks are voting for Obama, a certain percentage doing so simply because he is black {when in actuality he is half black, half white}.

Why not vote based on policy and let the one who has the best policy in the eyes of the people win? Why was this election all about race and not policy and the future?

Racism in ANY form is wrong, and I saw a lot of reverse racism this election. Moreso, than the stereotypical white hate black.

But, it's racist, will be called racist and hateful to bring this out and talk about it.....

So how can anyone expect true change and understanding of sides and working to build a better future together when BOTH sides keep racism and hate alive and well.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Daniel_

The interesting thing about racial perception, is that Obama is viewed as "black" when he is what used to be called in Britain "half-caste", "mulatto", or "bi-racial" depending on which decade (century?) you're looking at.

Our perception of race is so skewed that we comment and notice the black side of his heritage, but often overlook the white side.

Presumably it is because the genes from his father's side make a much more obvious presence in his appearance than those of his mother's side.

It's the same with Lewis Hamilton - the stories often focus on the black side of his family tree, because the first thing we notice isn't "there's Hamilton, you can see from the shape of his face he's got white genes" but "there's Hamilton, you can see from his brown skin that he's got black genes".

Racism will exist until what colour someone is is no more worthy of comment than whether they prefer butter or margarine, or if they like briefs or boxers.

It will take many, many years (if it ever happens).

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

Charlatan

I honestly don't believe that racism will ever *completely* go away. I think we are just wired to see difference.

The best we can hope for is the ability to know it when we see it (or feel it) and act appropriately.

__________________
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Derwood

voting AGAINST someone due to their race = racist
voting FOR someone due to their race = not really racist

Daniel_

The problem is that many of the people who voted FOR Obama because of his colour, might also be said to have voted AGAINST McCain because of his colour - is that racist?

I say "could be said" because until you have two black candidates, you can't take race out of the decision making process.

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

pan6467

If I am black and I voted for Obama not for his policies but by race...... how is that not racist?

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Derwood

because it's positive and not negative.

dc_dux

It could be suggested that it is racist to assume that X percentatge of blacks voted for Obama for his race rather than his policies if you dont have the data to back it up.
-----Added 17/11/2008 at 12 : 44 : 41-----
Obama saw an increased percentage in most demographics.....men, women, hispanics, asians, white, republicans, indepdendents, young, college educated.....

voter demographics - 1988-2008

yet, you single out the increased percentage of black voters and suggest that it was "racists" for blacks to vote for him at a higher percentage (than previous elections) as a result of few anectdotes that it was race based, rather than any hard data.

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

smooth

that's because they are using some ridiculous definition of racism that is so far removed from what it actually is that it's nearly nonsensical...which is what the point is. Render the conversation so far from reality that discussion about things that make us squirm is shut down.

Racism is about power and subjugation. It is not about simply seeing differences or even acting upon those supposed differences.
When people like roachboy and myself talk about racism we are not talking about individual actions...as in a black guy and a white guy see each other across the bar and one hates against the other.

Racism in this country is less about individual acts than it is about institutions that carry over the residuals from racist public policies that were themselves set in place by people operating within a racist context. A short history of how this works: blacks weren't people, it was illegal to teach them how to fucking read and write for fucks sake, then we "freed" them, then they could vote, but hey guess what, they couldn't fucking read and write so I wonder how effective their votes were...

and then of course, while they were milling around looking for their poll booths, aside from the shit like taxes that they couldn't pay, tests they couldn't possibly pass, and polling stations they couldn't find because the pollsters would move them around on purpose, but if they happened to get around town but so much as looked up at a white woman and found themselves hanging from a noose later that night.

while all this is going on, blacks used all their savings and bought nice little pink houses next to the white slave owners. oh wait a damn minute, they didn't have any savings. I wonder what they did...well let's just say that they built nice little communities where all the wealthiest wanted to live so their homes are worth a mint now...oh wait, wtf. who actually believes that? no, they live in communities that no one wants to live in because local tax dollars based off their home values are what pay for police, fire dept., SCHOOLS. So even the hardest working individual working his ass off to make sure his son gets up at the asscrack of dawn and drops him off at the school door but when he walks in there's a teacher who either is there because he or she can't work somewhere else or the rare individual who could work anywhere he or she wants but chooses to teach in Compton with no pencils, paper, or textbooks, or even tables because they want to change the world.

MEANWHILE, over in my neck of the woods, even the 3rd graders have computers.

So I wonder what happens when you compare the test scores between the two regions?
well it's this amazing thing that the white kids are just scoring the hell out of these SATs...of course, my school had professors come from the universities and most of them took college courses right there before lunch. and had parents paid for pre-SAT prep classes, and had parents who went to college so they actually knew about it.

meanwhile, the black kid over here actually knows calculus, in fact he knows it better than the kid who just finished his pre-sat tests, because he was staying out of trouble in the public library and started teaching himself some serious math shit. but right about the time he was going to graduate his dad was pulled over because he was DWB just a little too late at night and had some crack cocaine in his jacket pocket. so now he's doing 20 years in prison and unless this smart black kid drops out of high school and starts working at Taco Bell or goes into the Marines his mom can't pay the rent and his sister will not get her diabetes medicine.

so let's try and resolve this by offering federal funding to schools. hmm, let's see...oh wait, we already pay a shitload of money to teachers. they're just out to game the system and live off the dole. we better make sure that schools are actually teaching students shit before we cut them a check. let's make a test! now kiddos, if you want your textbooks and desks to sit in, then pass this test. WTF? what's with these dummies, they can't even improve their test scores year after year. I mean, the tests are so easy:
I can't believe that these inner city kids don't know that a bow is the front of a boat! how fucking dumb are they????
knew it was a bad idea to provide federal funds...we're just throwing money at a problem! teacher's unions, omfg, they are so greedy and they can't even teach worth a damn.


of course no one is responsible for this shit because it happened in the 1800's and no one is alive anymore...oh wait just a goddamn minute. That shit like killing blacks for the crime of being black happened 40 years ago. It still sometimes happens as a matter of fact unless you think the KKK is a hunting club now. And guess what, every single day these kinds of things prevent good people from succeeding. and I just sketched a brief overview of the education system. I didn't even type out the whole story because most people have the larger shit right about segregation due to the laws (de jure) even if they aren't aware of de facto segregation (segregation that happens as a matter of fact). I only mentioned racist crime policies in passing. There's a lot more to be said. maybe some musician will fill in the blanks on what happened to otherwise successful black musicians and why they aren't filthy rich...

institutional racism
look it up...it ain't going away...it's not even known to be a problem by most people (unless you happen to be affected by it or exposed to it somehow).

__________________
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Amaras

I see examples of the difference in the frames of reference EVERY day in my own house.
Smooth, well (albeit really long) said.

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filtherton

I was just going to point out that racism and racial discrimination are two different things, but I see that smooth has already done so in a more satisfyingly passionate way than I would have.

pig

smooth smooth...real smooth.

__________________
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powerclown

Is it racist for American companies to insist that their outsourced customer service phone reps in Bangalore India americanize their own names, for example, when Mr. Akaljeet Sarminder CSR, must identify himself to his American customer as "Allan? Why can't they just use their own names? It seems undignified.

dworkin31

If people think racism is dead, read local newspapers throughout the deep south, oklahoma, Tulsa, in particular. Racism is alive and well. The KKK is alive and well. Just read some of their comments to articles about obama. I live in LA so that when i read those comments, it is downright scary. It 's not the KKK or white supremicist groups that are at fault but the Southern Christian Poverty Law Center. It's unbelievable.

Those whites feel that they have been marginalized now (and they are correct). They are downright scared. They have a simple agenda - fear, which is based upon ignorance and intolerance.

Demographically, if you look at those who voted for obama, it's those with higher education. Do a breakdown on Politico or REal Clear Politics and you can see for yourself.

__________________
The most dangerous madmen are those created by religion, and people whose aim is to disrupt society always know how to make good use of them on occasion.

filtherton

I don't think it's racism. I think that in a society like the US, where a sizable portion of the population are economic nationalists (even if their actions aren't consistent with economic nationalism), they're just trying to avoid the appearance of having outsourced their labor.

powerclown

"Avoid the appearance of outsourcing the labor" but what about the foreign accent over the phone lines? Are you saying that outsourcing is embarrassing to companies? That could be true, perhaps foreign CSRs are trying to cover for the errors of their masters, or perhaps they are just being friendly to english speaking people. Imagine someday having to help out a Chinaman overseas over the phone and having to fake your name because it doesn't sound Chinese enough.

Derwood

the DirecTV or AT&T customer service rep can call themselves Joe Smith all day....it's pretty clear they're in India

Dixy

Leadership is key, me thinks. I live in the "Motherland of Racism" and I cannot base this on any scientific data, just observations.

When Nelson Mandela became president, we had a lot of racism, he somehow, not with laws, but making sure he understands and supports all the races and cultures, and by gestures of tolerance, lead the whole nation to less racism, from all sides (black, white, brown and yellow-yes we have them all).

We, for instance have eleven official languages and he managed to make one nation of us. I think he must be one of the biggest leaders ever.

We still have a lot of problems, but let us hope we can get a leader that can help us again. Our election is next year.

mixedmedia

I just want to jump in here and thank smooth for his last post. Very well said. It's always encouraging to see people who give a shit enough to give real consideration to the reality of inequality in our country. There are so many who will not see. Refuse to see. Especially when it comes to admitting that the reality of institutional racism today is directly related to our racist past. Good work.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

dc_dux

Add my thanks to smooth as well...for explaining it in a way that exposes the stark reality of racism in just one aspect of American life.

Speaking as one who was born when "whites only" signs still existed, we have made enormous progress just in our lifetime. But how do we, as a nation, continue to move forward and progress even further towards equal access for all, particularly in such troubled economic times when many feel so personally insecure or uncertain about their future? Do we ignore those who are unwilling or unable to accept that what smooth described, and that is replicated in other areas beyond education, still exists and yet who hold their own more convenient definition of racism?

My hope is that sometime during the course of his first term, Obama takes the issue on in a way that is educational and not confrontational and that promotes a national dialogue that examines the issue from all sides.

His remarkable speech during the campaign should not be forgotten. I hope some will take the time to listen to it again..


...37 minutes is not too much to ask.

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

abaya

That is the speech that got my attention and made me sign up to support Obama. I have watched it several times, and continue to be impressed each time. If anyone has not yet watched it, I encourage you to do so.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Paq

and just bc my brother is about as smart as a box of bricks, i get this email today:



-------Original Message-------







White Guilt is Dead





By Tom Adkins



Look at my fellow conservatives! There they go, glumly shuffling along, depressed by the election aftermath. Not me. I'm virtually euphoric. Don't get me wrong. I'm not thrilled with America 's flirtation with neo socialism. But there's a massive silver lining in those magical clouds that lofted Barak Obama to the Presidency. For today, without a shred of intellectually legitimate opposition, I can loudly proclaim to America : The Era of White Guilt is over.



This seemingly impossible event occurred because the vast majority of white Americans didn't give a fluff about skin color, and enthusiastically pulled the voting lever for a black man. Not just any black man. A very liberal black man who spent his early career race-hustling banks, praying in a racist church for 20 years, and actively worked with America-hating domestic terrorists. Wow! Some resume! Yet they made Barak Obama their leader. Therefore, as of Nov 4th, 2008, white guilt is dead.



For over a century, the millstone of white guilt hung around our necks, retribution for slave-owning predecessors. In the 60s, American liberals began yanking that millstone while sticking a fork in the eye of black Americans, exacerbating the racial divide to extort a socialist solution. But if a black man can become President, exactly what significant barrier is left? The election of Barak Obama absolutely destroys the entire validation of liberal white guilt. The dragon is hereby slain.



So today, I'm feeling a little "uppity," if you will. From this day forward, my tolerance level for having my skin color hustled is now exactly ZERO. And it's time to clean house. No more Reverend Wright's "God Damn America ," Al Sharpton's Church of Perpetual Victimization , or Jesse Jackson's rainbow racism. Cornell West? You're a fraud. Go home. All those "black studies" programs that taught kids to hate whitey? You must now thank Whitey. And I want that on the final.



Congressional Black Caucus? Irrelevant. Maxine Waters? Shut up. ACORN? Outlawed. Black Panthers? Go home and pet your kitty. Black separatists? Find another nation that offers better dreams. Go ahead. I'm waiting.



Gangsta rappers? Start praising America . Begin with the Pledge of Allegiance. And please…no more ebonics. Speak English, and who knows where you might end up? Oh, yeah…pull up your pants. Your underwear is showing. You look stupid.



To those Eurosnots who forged entire careers hating America ? I'm still waiting for the first black French President.



And let me offer an equal opportunity whupping. I've always despised lazy white people. Now, I can talk smack about lazy black people. You're poor because you quit school, did drugs, had three kids with three different fathers, and refuse to work. So when you plop your Colt 45-swilling, Oprah watchin' butt on the couch and complain "Da Man is keepin' me down," allow me to inform you: Da Man is now black. You have no excuses.



No more quotas. No more handouts. No more stealing my money because someone's great-great-great-great grandparents suffered actual pain and misery at the hands of people I have no relation to, and personally revile.



It's time to toss that massive, obsolete race-hustle machine upon the heap of the other stupid 60s ideas. Drag it over there, by wife swapping, next to dope-smoking. Plenty of room right between free love and cop-killing. Careful…don't trip on streaking. There ya go, don't be gentle. Just dump it. Wash your hands. It's filthy.



In fact, Obama's ascension created a gargantuan irony. How can you sell class envy and American unfairness when you and your black wife went to Ivy League schools, got high-paying jobs, became millionaires, bought a mansion, and got elected President? How unfair is that??? Now, Like a delicious O'Henry tale, Obama's spread-the-wealth campaign rendered itself moot by it's own victory! America is officially a meritocracy. Obama's election has validated American conservatism!



So, listen carefully…Wham!!!

That's the sound of my foot kicking the door shut on the era of white guilt. The rites have been muttered, the carcass lowered, dirt shoveled, and tombstone erected. White guilt is dead and buried.



However, despite my glee, there's apparently one small, rabid bastion of American racism remaining. Black Americans voted 96% for Barak Obama. Hmmm.. In a color-blind world, shouldn't that be 50-50? Tonight, every black person should ask forgiveness for their apparent racism and prejudice towards white people. Maybe it's time to start spreading the guilt around.



.....


yep, racism..completely dead...

__________________
Live.

Chris

filtherton

And here I thought white guilt ended when Ruben Stoddard won American Idol.

I think Mr. Adkins is confused about several of things. At least he isn't afraid to be smug about his ignorance.

matthew330

Trust me, I'm not trying to make friends here, but black people voting for Obama in the upper 90 percentages I don't think can be called racist. That's about the percentage they vote for democrats anyway. It would be slightly more telling to look at the percentage of blacks that voted for Obama over Clinton, and I think it was far less.

With regard to what smooth said, there's not much to take issue with other than this.....

"When people like roachboy and myself talk about racism we are not talking about individual actions...as in a black guy and a white guy see each other across the bar and one hates against the other."

If you don't jump on the bandwagon when posts like Paq come up, as did filtherton - your silence makes the quote above sound like bullshit. Anything that can be construed as racist in the 7th degree coming from conservatives is pounced on by your average liberal, when blatant racist comments coming from liberals is ignored. It happens with ridiculous frequency, so I don't see how any of you can say with a straight face, "Racism, at its core, is what concerns me".

To me it sounds like "Conservatism, at it's core, it what concerns me", and racism is a tool that I can use to convince other people of that, because black people overwhelmingly vote for us. It's because conservatives are racist...see, look what he said!

Usuery-ey! If you will. Without the money.

dc_dux

Mathew...IMO, you still dont get it when your complaint is about "racist comments coming from liberals"

Racism has little to do with comments made by the left or the right.

As smooth noted, racism is about power and subjugation.

It is about one race using their majority power and influence to create and maintain barriers to equal opportunity for others based solely on race.

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

matthew330

IMO you didn't read my post. You saw "Matthew330" and responded.

dc_dux

Mathew....the "other that this" (re: racist comments from conservatives or liberals) part of your post is what I take issue with.

It perpetuates a false characterization of racism.

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

matthew330

and that was not the point of my post. Yeah ! now it's my turn to tell someone the "proper" way to contribute. If you're gonna find a minuscule sentence in a post and dismiss the whole thing based on that, because in your head that's all I said, then leave it and let someone else respond so it doesn't turn into this. I swear its an art with you all.

dc_dux

mathew...its the "miniscule sentences" (half of your post) and similar sentiments that some hold that IMO are not so miniscule in their own thinking) that can make an honest and open discussion on the issue very difficult.

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

matthew330

when you want an honest and open discussion you'll go back and read my original post, see my point on the very first try, and respond to that Because I'm telling you, your responses so far are a clear indication you don't get what I"m saying, and don't care. For now, it's 5 posts back, I'm reduced to this retarted conversation (yet again), and someones gonna tell me how stupid I am for spelling retarded wrong just now.

......anyone else, or would you like to keep this up DC? Bueller, Bueller....

dc_dux

MMathew.....I read it again and I applaude you for acknowledging that "with regard to what smooth said, there's not much to take issue with....."

better?

So why the "other than this..." qualifier? (an attempt to make it an issue of comparing conservative/liberal "racist" comments) that IMO raised a question in my mind that you really didnt understand what was at the core of smooth's post.

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

filtherton

I never said Adkins was racist, I said he was ignorant. He believes in a concept called "white guilt" and he believes it is widespread. He believes it is widespread not because there is any sort of objective evidence that it is widespread, but because he wants it to be true. I would bet that he can't understand why people are concerned about trivial matters like "cultural context" and "history" because he isn't concerned about trivial matters like "cultural context" and "history" so he, being the stereotypical sympathy-challenged conservative, assumes that concern for trivial matters like "cultural context" and "history" are actually just contrived rationalizations of guilt. He can't relate to the reasons other people do things, so he assumes that those other people are lying about those reasons.

To be clear, conservatism, as it is portrayed by actual conservatives, is what concerns me. The whole "we believe the government shouldn't tell you what to do unless you're gay, or muslim, or etc" thing kind of throws me for a loop.

Racism is an altogether distinct issue, though often people who dress themselves up as conservatives on the weekdays seem like the type who probably wouldn't have a problem dressing themselves up in clan sheets on the weekends.

matthew330

It's much better *kiss*, let me tuck you in now.
-----Added 20/11/2008 at 12 : 34 : 52-----
[quote=filtherton;2563008]I never said Adkins was racist, I said he was ignorant. He believes in a concept called "white guilt" and he believes it is widespread. He believes it is widespread not because there is any sort of objective evidence that it is widespread, but because he wants it to be true. I would bet that he can't understand why people are concerned about trivial matters like "cultural context" and "history" because he isn't concerned about trivial matters like "cultural context" and "history" so he, being the stereotypical sympathy-challenged conservative, assumes that concern for trivial matters like "cultural context" and "history" are actually just contrived rationalizations of guilt. He can't relate to the reasons other people do things, so he assumes that those other people are lying about those reasons.[QUOTE]

I never said you said he was racist, and you may be dead on with your perception of him. "White guilt" and it's prevalence - I don't know, I don't really have much to say about it. If I'm forced to acknowledge the term itself, I suppose I would think DC in our most recent conversation exhibited some level of it. Its a term to me that immediately ends the conversation, because it's easy to argue against as you just did.

[QUOTE=filtherton;2563008]To be clear, conservatism, as it is portrayed by actual conservatives, is what concerns me. The whole "we believe the government shouldn't tell you what to do unless you're gay, or muslim, or etc" thing kind of throws me for a loop.[QUOTE]

I'll play the TFP liberal card here. Give me examples of where actual conservatives are telling gays and muslims what to do.


...and whaddya say to that. Perhaps we just live in two different worlds. Seriously? What?

I still feel like my point wasn't addressed, just diverted and ignored. OH well. I hoped I used the quoting thing correctly.

Cynthetiq

really? so when it's a minority using their power and influence to maintain barriers to equal opportunity for other based solely on race it isn't racism?

when chinese only want to hire chinese and not japanese or korean, that's not racism? or when mexicans don't want to hire guatamalans or costa ricans that's not racism?

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

dc_dux

Cyn....those acts you described are not acts of institutional policies and practices established by the dominant race to maintain that dominance.
-----Added 20/11/2008 at 01 : 22 : 21-----
I would put your examples in the same caregory as some Italians preferring to hire Italians or some Jews preferring to hire Jews (feel free to insert any cultural or religious group)

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

filtherton

Aren't these examples of intraracial discrimination? Are you trying to make the claim that it would be racist of me, as a white guy, to refuse to hire a person because they were Canadian?

Cynthetiq

filth, yes, that is correct... I am making that case. When the Irish were discriminated against or the Italians, or the Germans in the 1800s, it's still discrmination based on race, which is racist.

But based on your thoughts... So it's not racist for the pakistani to discriminate or hate the indian...

so then hate crimes are only the ones where it's white on black...

but pakistani against indian, n. korean against s. korean, mexican against guatamalan....

those are just intracial crimes right? not hate crimes?

dc.. It may not have institutional backing and historical siginificance, but check the basics of the definition of racism. If you want things to be equal it's not about dominant institutional practices, it's about fairness to everyone regardless of color, creed, etc.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.