Paq

sorry, saw this and thought, "duh"

ABC News: Obama Has More Threats Than Other Presidents-Elect

this is merely a branch off from several threads suggesting racism is no longer around or that minorities have overcome and no further help is needed simply bc a half black man was elected president..

well..

we now have a half black president and people are saying, 'yay, racism is dead' but i know i hear more N*** references and muslim references now than ever....apparently bc being muslim is the same as being a 'terrist'

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ngdawg

And this surprises you, how?
It was amusing to see the results by state on election night-looked more like who was on which side of the Civil War.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

Paq

hey dearie, long time no see...

it doesnt' shock me, but there were many people saying racism was over..soooo, i just wanted to invite them down to a red state where, sadly, these things are going on every day..

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Chris

Speed_Gibson

what moron would say this man is a muslim merely because of a non-typical American name?
The incredibly stupid dislike because of his skin pigmentation was sadly expected, especially from some areas of the country. There are far better and actually valid reasons to dislike him based on his voting record, policies, etc.
-----Added 15/11/2008 at 12 : 03 : 57-----
Back in my Navy days, a BT2 ( he was white) I worked with told me about an area in Georgia he was traveling through with someone who was black on a security assignment. They got some ugly looks and passed through a town that celebrates around the "hanging tree" every year. The kind of looks where you push the car to the next town even if it is on fire and out of gas.

__________________
Started talking to yourself I see.
Yes, it's the only way I can be certain of an intelligent conversation.

Black Adder

Vigilante

Ha! Got a pic of that? I'll look for one. I'm obviously below the mason-dixon here in TX, but I still think it's funny as hell.

I honestly don't care if a president is black, white, asian or whatever the hell tiger woods is (joke), as long as they do their job, I wouldn't care even if it was a tranny. Obviously I wouldn't care if it was a woman either. If they can command respect from the other nations and show respect for the people of this one, hey whatever.

Vote's over, guess I can change my avatar now too...

edit: done. LOL

Found one, yeah I see what you mean haha.

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-Winston Churchill

shakran

yeah, I remember back when Obama first put his hat in the ring, muttering to a friend that if he got elected the Secret Service would really be earning their pay. Every brainless KKK redneck out there would just love to be the one with the sniper rifle the day he gets shot.

Vigilante

It's really a shame when the PRESIDENT can't even trust his own people. No sense of civil duty, just pure racial hate. He won it fair and square, get over it already. Slavery is long gone, time to let it go, on both sides.

I'm just so sick of that. Race jokes, hey that's funny. I love a good race joke, even when I'm the doofass getting laughed at. Real racism, no that's not funny, or fun, or called for. I wish whites and blacks could just bury the fuckin hatchet already.

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abaya

What fucking retards. They're about 100 years behind in the history of the US, not that they would know that anyway. Seriously, who ARE these people, and why haven't they been banished to some remote island already.

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for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
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Amaras

As long as it's not in each others' back.
Seriously though, I believe race relations, and the improvement thereof, is a process.
Not a situation where, okay, we have a black president, we're not racist. There is still a fair amount of confrontation that has to go on.
Anybody here talk with black folks about OJ or the Rodney King riots? Anybody try to understand why blacks constantly poll with widely divergent numbers from whites on issues like trust in the legal system, opportunities in the US, and so on?
There remain very few who openly advocate racism. Now we are in a far more subtle game, where racism remains hidden, but no less powerful for all of that.

__________________
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-Noam Chomsky
Love is a verb, not a noun.
-My Mom
The function of genius is to furnish cretins with ideas twenty years later.
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anti fishstick

I find it hard to believe that people can think racism is dead now that we have a black president... He only won by 52% which means there are a lot of people who don't like him. We still have a LOT to overcome in this country, and it frustrates me because it won't be long until minorities become the majority. Back in highschool, I learned about the US being a "melting pot" of people and culture. This is a young country and most families have immigrated here, in one generation or other. So it makes perfect sense that people continue to immigrate here and diversify the country. Get over it. I'm so tired of hatred in the 21st century... but it just shows how YOUNG we are and how much we still have to learn, collectively. :T

Like the OP, I believe there will be a spike of racism and violent acts for a period of time now that race is more in the forefront of america. We can't just ignore it anymore, say hushhush and sweep it under the rug..

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Amaras

Madame Fishstickulous, the 48% that didn't vote for him, that "didn't like him", I'm sure that for a majority it was his policies, perceived inexperience, etcetera....
The way you wrote, I read that they didn't vote for him due to the fact he's black, which I'm sure you didn't mean.

[QUOTE=Like the OP, I believe there will be a spike of racism and violent acts for a period of time now that race is more in the forefront of america. We can't just ignore it anymore, say hushhush and sweep it under the rug..[/QUOTE]
Sadly, I think it's a good thing. Ignorance, fear, and hate breed in the darkness. It's only when it comes to light that it can be addressed.

__________________
Propaganda is to a democracy what the bludgeon is to a totalitarian state.
-Noam Chomsky
Love is a verb, not a noun.
-My Mom
The function of genius is to furnish cretins with ideas twenty years later.
-Louis Aragon, "La Porte-plume," Traite du style, 1928

SabrinaFair

You know, one thing I've not heard anyone address yet is racism AMONG those who supported President-Elect Obama. I'm from Kentucky, which I consider to be "purple" state, as it goes "red" in some elections and "blue" in others. Our governor and most of our state-wide Constitutional office holders (State Treasurer, Auditor, Attorney General, etc.) and two of our six Congressmen are all Democrats. Our Senators and Congressman, as well as our presidential vote, are red.

Anyhow, when Obama secured the nomination, I wondered how my grandfather would vote. Although he's a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat, he's also racist. In the end, he justified voting for Obama on the grounds that he was voting for a VP candidate--he assumed that Obama will fall victim to an assassin's bullets, and that McCain would have died in office. Also, throughout the course of the election, I heard of other Obama voters who still clung to racist views, or at the very least subtle prejudices.

So while I do think this election was a step in the right direction as far as improving race relations, the fact that a majority voted a black man into office doesn't mean that the job is done....racism and prejudice are more more complex than who one chooses to vote for. Just as the 48% that DIDN'T vote for Obama did not unilaterally do so on the basis of the race, the 52% that DID vote for him did not unilaterally do so with hearts and minds completely free from the chains of racism.

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Be cheerful. Strive to be happy."
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Daniel_

Fear of "the other" is one of the most hard-wired human ideas.

Racism will never go away, or if hatred of "the other" because of colour is something we grow out of as a species, we will replace it with fear of "the other" by some different factor.

The problem with racism (and other -isms) is that they are insidious; example - in my office last week, a young (20ish) white girl from a good school and decent in alomst all respects said it was wrong to call the President Elect a "spade" (once the gardner joke was explained to her) but that she saw nothing wrong with calling him a "nig-nog" because that was "funny, and not meant to upset him, I think he's great".

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

little_tippler

Racism is dead? really?

Gallup Polls - Candidate Support by Race

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

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Daniel_

I notice that the Gallup data groups "Non-Hispanic White", "Non-Hspanic Black", and "Hispanic".

Where do all the asians go?

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

abaya

If it's anything like the definitions used by the US census, the "Hispanic" and "Non-Hispanic" are ethnic distinctions, whereas "White" and "Black" are racial distinctions. Of course, that doesn't account for why other "races" aren't mentioned (including Asian), but I haven't looked carefully enough into the link yet to investigate that.

__________________
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for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Paq

i hope everyone realizes i was being sarcastic about racism being dead....

seriously, look where i live..it's alive and well

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matthew330

this thread more than any other, convinces me your average liberal = young white people trying to convince themselves that they have risen above, in their young wisdom, a KKK mentality that the rest of the world in. Congratulations young fellows, pat yourselves on the back.

and Daniel just learned about "the Other" from his college professor (roachboy?) and loves the concept. Fuckin hilarious.

The Secret Service has had plenty of practice for Obama in the last 8 years considering the madness of modern day liberalism. I would guess, and hope, that he'll have 4 good years.

Baraka_Guru

matthew, have you nothing constructive to add to the thread? I see you're convinced of some strong ideas, yet you've done nothing to tell us why that is or how you've come to such absurd conclusions. You've directed your ire at someone who made legitimate comments, but instead of offering us a rebuttal, you give us mockery.

If you cannot respond in any meaningful way, then I suggest you stay out of the thread. Otherwise, please tell us what you mean, exactly.

(Hint: racism isn't a liberal construction.)

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—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

matthew330

I'm pretty sure that was constructive, but to be on the safe side, going forward, shall i run my comments by you beforehand to make sure?

pan6467

If racism is so wrong and evil, why is no one pointing out that over 90 percent of the blacks voted for Obama and under 5 percent for McCain? While only around 50 percent of whites voted for McCain? And over 40 percent voted for Obama?

To me that truly shows where the racism lies. I wonder if any other recent presidential nominee from one of the 2 parties scored less than at least 10 percent of the black vote.

Nope, in 2004, even the hated W with "racist" policies scored 11 percent of the black vote.

United States presidential election, 2004 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 2000.... can't find data. However, in 1996 Dole got 12 percent and in 92 Bush got 10 percent.

What about Reagan? Can't find 84 but in 80 he got 14 percent and in 76 Ford got 16 percent.

United States presidential election, 1980 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The point is that just as some whites may have voted for McCain solely because of race, probably more of a percentage voted for Obama based on race and not policies.

Racism is alive and well on BOTH sides and to be honest in some areas and aspects blacks keep it more prevalent and alive than whites.

I'm just sick of hearing how it is all one sided whites hating blacks, when I believe based on what I have seen it's more the other way around.

But in the end, whichever side in your eyes keeps it alive and revels in it..... racism is wrong and needs to be shown for what it is. Then again, there's an argument that by pointing it out you are trying to keep it alive. Just as I am sure some here will {or would love to but won't because it would prove me right} will attack me and make up all kinds of excuses how 10 percent of a population can vote GOP for almost 30 years and then drop in one year to below 5 percent.

I know EVERY black that voted for Obama, did so, because they all believed in his policies and none because their vote was race based.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Daniel_

Good morning mathew330. Vituperative as ever, I see.

I think you'll find I left college quite a long time before roachboy started, and I've never taken a sociology or PPE course in my life, so unless roachboy was teaching Chemical Physics at an unreasonably young age, it's unlikely he's ever been one of my professors.

What I have done is read widely, and I think you'll find that fear of the other is enshrined throughout political theory and philosophical writings. In the Western tradition it is present in Plato's writings on Socrates, it's in Nietzsche, and to Godwin my own post, it's got it's own special section in Mien Kampf, so I can't really say it's a new idea.

The Liberal tradition in the UK goes back a long time, and given that it pre-dates the Klan by a century or more, it's hard to see how it's a reaction to that. As for being young whites, I think you'll find that it was old men who abolished Slavery, old men who gave Women the vote, old men and women who created welfare programmes and healthcare systems, and so on.

At my age, it's nice to be called "young fellow", so thanks for that.

I notice that you seem to be saying that liberalism is a sham - that liberals are trying to "convince themselves" of something. If people vote for tolerance and support for those that need it, at the expense of the super-rich who have increased their share of the wealth in the world many times over for the past few decades (and if you want to rail at that, please take a look at the available data showing how many times more the average company director earns compared to their workers now, vs. pretty much any time in the past), if people vote for a less aggressive and hegemonising USA, if people vote for an improvement in accountability, then I'm all for people trying to convince themselves of something.

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

Rekna

matthew is just bitter that the majority of the US (and the world) see his views as outdated and non-conducive to a good society. He hitched his wagon to a train heading off the deep end and is now upset that people see his views as loony. The funny thing is the extreme rights solution to this problem is to move more right instead of shift back twoard the center. These extreme right wingers are forcing themselves into a minority position and it sounds like a lot of the GOP agree with me on this one.

dc_dux

pan...if you continue to believe that racism is voting for a person of your own race...I would respectfully suggest that you will never understand what is at the heart of racism.

Hell...until the Voting Rights Act was enacted just over 40 years ago (in our lifetime), many people of color were denied the right to vote. And even today, what voter suppression activities exist, they are generally targeted at minorities.
-----Added 16/11/2008 at 11 : 27 : 01-----
These recent threats against Obama are not surprising....such an event brings the most ignorant or the most insecure out of the closet.

In a similar vein, antisemitism has spike recently with claims that the financial crisis is the fault of a Jewish conspiracy.

The real danger is not these extremists nuts who expose themselves...but the racists and bigots who maintain a tolerant public facade and practice their ignorance and intolerance in more subtle ways.

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

new man

Pan6467,

What I see pointed out that every previous election was around 10% to at most 16% by black voters, who were voting for two white males. Now you have a legitimate black candidate vs a white candidate, and you could argue that 5 to 10% changed their vote to democratic based on race. You could also argue that Obama ran a more effective get out the vote campaign that brought out people who had never voted before. You could argue that there was less voter fraud that was designed to throw out large chunks of the population. Or you could argue that for millions of people who at various times of their life have felt the subtle or not so subtle sting of racism they finally have a chance to elect one of their own. Maybe they did it to show other people that four years under a qualified black president is not going to end the country. Remember, this is not Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton or Alan Keyes, this is a real politician with a real education who finally had a legitimate shot at leading the country.

filtherton

I'm assuming that, as someone who believes that openly racist people are actually liberal plants hoping to make conservatives look bad, you didn't really need a lot of convincing to come to your conclusions.

matthew330

I think the liberal sensitivty toward racism in this country being conspicuously absent when it comes from one of their own (ie - rosanne barr's reaction to proposition 8), and rears it's ugly head when one person in a republican convention says something stupid amounts to....well, usury for lack of a better term.

...and If you listen to cspan at all, and listen to the frequency that liberals call in trying to be conservatives and get busted for it, this idea of liberal plants doesn't seem so crazy. There's a population of liberals out there that you can't ignore, the behave and react to politics like no significant faction of conservatives do, and you only have to look to the TFP to see it. It makes sense, liberals target the poor and uneducated, not because their concerned about them, but because the liberal message, as empty as it is, sounds real good to them. And that disgusts me.

As does this thread.

Amaras

Umm, I don't understand "usury" in the context you used it. Usury means to loan money with an exorbitant interest rate.
Are you picking words at random?

Can you provide examples, please. I'd like to know.

For myself, Roseanne can be just as stupid as any Republican in a convention can.
One difference, Roseanne's not running for office, or claiming to represent any part of the population.

Put down the thesaurus, please. Spell check, however is free. So are books at your
local library, try to read some that do not support your ideas, it'll help you argue better.

__________________
Propaganda is to a democracy what the bludgeon is to a totalitarian state.
-Noam Chomsky
Love is a verb, not a noun.
-My Mom
The function of genius is to furnish cretins with ideas twenty years later.
-Louis Aragon, "La Porte-plume," Traite du style, 1928

matthew330

My apologies for not coming up with the right word, and kudos to you for pointing it out. You're quite the arguer (dictionary please!). All that aside, you know what I meant. So settle down.

Baraka_Guru

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Amaras

Matthew, my apologies, sincerely. I was hungry, and perhaps precipitate in my remarks.
Let me try it again.
Roseanne Barr is a celebrity, and as such, receives "news" coverage outside her area of expertise. She, like all other citizens, has a right to her opinion, no matter how disagreeable. But her opinion represents her point of a view as a nominally "private" citizen.
Now, a member of a political party at a convention represents his/her constituents, or a candidate, or at the very least, their party.
So how can we compare the two? I don't see how.
There are a few other "Democratic" citizens I cannot stand, like Alec Baldwin and Michael Moore. I think they hurt, rather than help, positions that I myself hold dear. But they cannot be voted for, unfortunately. I would vote for many, many Republicans before either of those two.

The "liberal plants" issue. I imagine some must exist. Is this to descend into a debate over dirty political tactics? I would then like to review the records of Lee Atwater, Karl Rove, et al.

Then I'm sure you could come up with some examples of dirty democrats.

Just provide concrete examples, please. I would love to hear/see a youtube clip of a "liberal" being caught out trying to "pass" as a "conservative".

__________________
Propaganda is to a democracy what the bludgeon is to a totalitarian state.
-Noam Chomsky
Love is a verb, not a noun.
-My Mom
The function of genius is to furnish cretins with ideas twenty years later.
-Louis Aragon, "La Porte-plume," Traite du style, 1928

dc_dux

I read comments here like (paraphrasing) "voting for one's own race is racism (if you're black) or "racism is a liberal conspiracy" and I wonder if we will ever be able to have an honest national discussion about racism and race relations.

My guess is probably not, at least until it is more widely accepted that despite the gains that have been made towards equal access for all, wide disparities still exist as a result of barriers, less overt than in the past, imposed on minorities based solely on race....in the areas of employment, housing, education, health care, the criminal justice system, the financial lending system...the list goes on.

We also have to acknowledge that the remedies to correct those disparities and/or discriminatory practices can and have created feelings of anger and often a sense of victimization and reverse discrimination among the majority white populace.

There are no easy solutions but the problem wont go away by being ignored or mischaracterized for political gain.

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

roachboy

it's not obvious that folk talk about the same thing when they talk about racism in the states...it's probably a modelling question, what different folk, working from different political positions and life experience, think of when racism comes up---this shapes what factors are taken into consideration and which are excluded.

the obvious dividing line is history---what counts as the history of racism, what it's effects are, and so to what extent the present is constrained by that history---this inevitably separates viewpoints. my own view is that the history should be understood broadly, that it's effects continue in myriad ways and so the present in this respect is heavily constrained by the past. so from that point of departure, i see most more conservative/individualist views of this to be untenable. but the point is not that--the point is that for there to be an honest conversation about racism in the states, there has to be a desire for one--and i'm not sure it exists---and some agreement about what we're talking about--and there isn't really. i mean, look through the thread or any of the many parallel threads.

curious to see myself name-checked by matthew earlier when i hadn't posted anything to the thread--it's strangely flattering to occupy that kind of space in his imagination.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

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Amaras

Excellent point. I hope to remember it in the future.

__________________
Propaganda is to a democracy what the bludgeon is to a totalitarian state.
-Noam Chomsky
Love is a verb, not a noun.
-My Mom
The function of genius is to furnish cretins with ideas twenty years later.
-Louis Aragon, "La Porte-plume," Traite du style, 1928

matthew330

you should be flattered roachboy. In this "space" as you call it, you remind me of my college sociology professors, that I really liked....just as time goes on, resent a little bit.

Amaras

Matthew, you nearly got a rise out of me. roachboy is far too clever.

__________________
Propaganda is to a democracy what the bludgeon is to a totalitarian state.
-Noam Chomsky
Love is a verb, not a noun.
-My Mom
The function of genius is to furnish cretins with ideas twenty years later.
-Louis Aragon, "La Porte-plume," Traite du style, 1928

smooth

it's cognitive dissonance; happens to the best of us
I go through a similar cycle every time my wife brings one of her stripper friends home from work and I invariably find out they are republican

incidentally, I've noticed a strange correlation between conservative women and their enjoyment from being fucked in the ass...literally, I'm not making a pun.

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matthew330

"cognitive dissonance"

Is that a french thing?

smooth

it's a New York thing...
but he looks froggy, LOL

__________________
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"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

The_Jazz

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