Jinn

Is it just me, or is Obama the perfect candidate?

I can't find anything wrong with him. I'm an atheist, and I still strongly support his positions on religion. I agree with his foreign policy, his idea for social reform, his stance on "the green movement," and even his feelings about 'the religious right.'

The only thing I've seen people bash him on is his "lack of experience", but years in Illinois, books written and 11 years teaching Constitutional law is enough for me, even as Commander in Chief. Call me naive.

Can anyone find anything that makes him look bad? I've been google videoing all day and I can't find anything. He doesn't even seem wish-washy. There's no "arguing with himself" videos like there are with Hillary, et. al.

I suppose if you were super religious or super Republican you might not like him, but damn if I'm not close to agreeing with Obama girl. He seems like a very solid candidate.

Some videos to support my hypothesis:

"His Plans for 2008":

Him on Tyra Show - makes him seem very human and humble

His "Relgious" opinion; skip to 2:05 to get past all the Jesus stuff right to his speech

His Foreign Policy:

"Our military power is just one component of our power… [..] and I will do whatever it takes as Commander in Chief to keep the American people safe. But I know that part of keeping us safe is restoring our respect in our world. And I think those who are advising me agree with that, and part of our agenda that we are putting forward …initiating contacts with Muslim leaders in the world, doubling our efforts in terms of in terms of foreign aid. All those are designed to create long-term security, by creating long-term prosperity around the world.”

For giggles; Obama Girl (not really SFW)

His official policy page (biased, but still good):
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

He's also one of very few candidates to address net neutrality, but that's not surprising considering he has a million mySpace and Facebook pages and seems generally tech-savvy (another important thing, for me).

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

The_Jazz

I am an Obama donor, and host, I fully expect the post that you're formenting to "shed light" on why he's the devil incarnate or whatever it is this week. I'm looking forward to it.

Disclosure aside, I really like the guy. I met him when he was running for the Senate at a "Barack-B-Q" and again a few weeks ago. He is very impressive. And his wife is even more so, believe it or not.

Clearly, I don't buy the "lack of experience" thing. I don't see where experience has made any difference. Bush and Clinton both had the experience of being govenors of their respective states, and I don't see where that really helped either. Being Vice President didn't really seem to help Ford or Bush Sr.

Is he the right man for the job? That's the important question, I think. You're welcome to your answer on that. I have mine.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

host

His reaction to the US spending ten times as much on the military as our next closesr rival is unacceptable to me:
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...95&postcount=1

...and this smells:

Willravel

I think he'd make a good president.

Voting record: http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/Barack_Obama.htm

He has a frighteningly good record, which is why he's my second choice behind Kucinich.

The_Jazz

host, from the article you quoted:

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

host

...and, from the same article:

Page 1:
Page 1:
Page 3:
I'm wondering, on cold nights, which one of them "hogs the blankets"....

Ustwo

Typical tax and spend democrat..

No wonder you all like him.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

The_Jazz

Why? Because Obama mows Rezko's empty lot at MAYBE $1,000 a year, and Obama's the one that doesn't have to look at the overgrown lot?

host, I think that it speak volumes that someone with your excellent research skills can't find anything worse on Obama than this. Let's recap:

Obama didn't know that Rezko was buying the lot.
Obama paid Rezko higher than market value for the land he bought but that the formula he used is perfectly acceptable (1/6th of the purchase price of the lot for 1/6th of its area).
Obama made Rezko pay for the fence because that's what the law says.


Explain to me how this makes Rezko and Obama bedmates, please. It sounds like Obama being a good neighbor and following the law.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Willravel

Ustwo... we spend, but it's usually to pay for the previous GOP presidency and social programs, not wars.

ratbastid

Host, I somehow have a hard time believing that our next president is going to be in the pocket of... Tony Rezko. The article is careful to say that Obama has taken pains to demonstrate that nothing is amiss. Don't people have the right to have any friends they want and perform any legal financial or real estate transaction with anyone they want? That smear story is unworthy of you.

The military spending thing is, in my mind, tempered by everything else he's said about his foreign policy plans. From everything I've heard him say, plus his Senate voting record, I trust him to represent me on the international stage.

Imagine an Obama/Kucinich ticket!

Yeah, and holy crap is the phrase "tax-and-spend Democrat" outdated!! How about the last eight years of tax-and-borrow-and-sell-our-children's-future-and-spend-like-drunken-cowboys Republicans?

host

So far, it only smells, and it is a sign of poor judgment. Is it "worse than whitewater"? "You know who", will make certain that an investigation attempts to find out, if Barak is elected POTUS.....

Willravel

A man can dream... Obama would make a great Vip for 8 years and then president in 2016. 16 years of Dems doesn't sound too bad. Then he'd have the experience people are complaining about.

mixedmedia

I've had my eye on Barack since the 2004 Democratic convention.

He has had my vote from the start.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

ratbastid

I was kind of thinking the other way around. I like Kucinich a lot, but I don't really see him climbing to the head of the pack and winning the nomination.

Yep, I think a lot of people have.

Ustwo

Oh please, oh please, oh please. I'd love this ticket which should be for obvious reasons.

I thought they were starving the beast?

The day a democrat votes for real reductions in government spending and does not cry a reduction in the rate of growth is a cut, let me know.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

host

I'm old enough to recall the "creamin' in the jeans" for JFK, and that's what some pf these posts remind me of....we need an immdiate, huge reduction in military spending, and this guy will borrow $100 billion per year to keep it the same as now, or higher, even as he talks compassion, corporatism will continue to thrive.

bmadison

The problem with defining what is a problem with Obama is that the problems change depending on what side of the fence you happen to fall upon. If you want to argue ideology, then, one could find several things wrong with him.

However, I sense that you are looking to find "what is wrong with him" in comparison to Clinton. I cannot help you with that because I think they are both wrong (i.e. the Theory of Global Warming and spending money on something that isn't even proven.)

I would say that the thing that could be wrong with him, "universally", is that he is a politician. However, they all are and it would be naive to think that he will do anything other than bend to whatever master he serves, whether it be Corporations (on the Conservative side) or Special Interest/Unions (on the Liberal side). They're all dirty and all it takes is a few lobbyists with a whole lot of money to change their minds.

Remember... In California, the Governator stated "I have plenty of money and I will not need to take money from Special Interests". He held out for a little while, but he eventually turned too. I guess my point is that no one can be trusted because the untrustworthy people have made it impossible for anyone at that level to be trusted.

/rant

mixedmedia

Sounds like sour grapes to me.

It's not our fault that you guys got nothing but crapola on a ritz cracker this go-around.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

djtestudo

Any ticket involving Kucinich has no chance of winning unless the east and west coasts declare war on and carpet-nuke every inch of ground between Chicago and San Francisco.

And that won't happen, simply from an environmental standpoint

__________________
"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

samcol

Why does the MSM and America hate Kucinich so much? He's like the only sane on on the Democratic side.

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It's time for the president to hand over his nobel peace prize.

Ustwo

Apparently we have a different definition of sane in the Midwest.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

highthief

Isn't his middle name "Hussein"?

Obvious Islamic conspiracy.

Nuff, said.

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

jorgelito

Dennis Hussein Kucinich?

FoolThemAll

I like him, his relative lack of experience doesn't bother me in the least, and I don't think he'd kill the country or anything, but I wouldn't ever vote for him.

I just don't like Democratic policy much at all. I'll echo Ustwo's post #7, and while I don't know if it's really sour grapes for him, it IS sour grapes for me. I wish we had an Obama. Why the hell not? Some of my best friends come across as honest and idealistic.

I'll either hold my nose as in 2004 and vote for the republican nominee - if he isn't GWB II or Giuliani - or throw my vote away on some libertarianish third party candidate.

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I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.

Johnny Rotten

No, he's not perfect. Takes a lot of big donations from Goldman Sachs and the like. Too much Wall Street investment in his campaign for my taste. But I like him more than any other candidate, because he's willing to listen to both sides of the aisle and has proven that he can bring people together towards a common cause, like his campaign for videotaped interrogations in Illinois. He isn't about "us versus those nasty Republicans" like Hillary is. People are tired of the partisan bullshit.

Don't like her much. She's frosty, and her composure is easily punctured. Bad combination, and the sheiks and imams in the Middle East quagmire just aren't really going to warm up to her. Not when her husband was the guy responsible for placing all those military bases in their holy land, and refusing to close them down even when threatened by terrorists about dire consequences. Meanwhile, a dark-skinned man named Barack Hussein Obama? I'm thinking he'll get a wee bit more traction over there.

Edwards is all right, but he doesn't have Obama's charisma. He'll probably get a cabinet position if Obama wins. Right now, he's good enough as Barack's foil. You can tell neither of them like her, on a personal level. Edwards really seemed to sour on her when she fell behind and started sniping at Obama. Barack, meanwhile, is just sitting back and giving her as much rope as she wants. Political jujitsu.

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"The idea that money doesn't buy you happiness is a lie put about by the rich, to stop the poor from killing them." -- Michael Caine

bmadison

Seriously?!?!? He is willing to listen to both sides, as long as it works with his ideology. There is not a single thing conservative about Obama. That may sound appealing to you, and thats fine with me, but to make the statement that he is bi-partisan is absurd. Just because he says he is bi-partisan over and over and over again does not make it true. He is the most left leaning candidate you have. He speaks well... Very Well, but when you look at his voting record, it was either liberal causes or simply voting "Present". Someone who refuses to vote one way or another when it doesn't fit their agenda is not bi-partisan, its making no decision at all, but saying "I will not vote against you". The only thing worse than a person who makes the wrong decision is a person who doesn't make a decision at all.

Besides, Bi-Partisanship is overrated. Its just each side saying... "If you vote to pass my bill, I will vote to pass your bill regardless of whether I believe it will actually benefit the Country or not." There is no belief in that. Take a stand, stand up for what you believe, carry out what you say, and realize you can't please everyone.

MSD

Pardon me while I go throw up for a few minutes.

MuadDib

Honestly, Kucinich got most of his support in 2004 from Midwestern states. He got a big push from farmers and big plugs through Farm Aid. Of course, by "big" I mean relative to his overall vote-getting potential. Kucinich really is a good man and is personally very inspiring with a real human, down-to-earth life. He has a lot of good ideas and ideals, but he fundamentally misunderstands how politics works. The man isn't a real politician and, in some ways, that's his greatest quality, but the fact of the matter is that our political system is pretty damned great and has worked very well for quite a while now. America works through compromise and that allows for slow change, but more importantly it safe guards us in many ways. That's very frustrating when there are injustices piling up, but that's what the role of candidates/politicians like Kucinich is.

I am a fan of Kucinich the man and very much so, but as a national politician (not just a state representative, I mean) I just can't get behind someone who is so uncompromising. That's the problem we have now in Bush and I don't want to trade an idiot-tyrant for an enlightened-tyrant. As for Kucinich as a VP I think that would be alright assuming he doesn't ascend to the presidency and that picking him up as a VP united either the party or country by filling a void in the ticket. Unfortunately, neither assumption is valid. The man does great work in the House and brings an important voice to the national political discussion. I think he might have a place in a democratic presidents cabinet.

Anyway, to somewhat relate back to the original topic I do want to say that I really am going to have to grit my teeth at the ballot box if Obama wins the nomination. I live in a solidly blue state so I might be able to get away with not doing so, but in a close race I will show up to vote Democrat. Obama is far from perfect for many reasons. I think experience matters. I'm not from Missouri but when you talk change or consistency I say 'show me'. I refuse to take someone at there word, no matter how trustworthy or unimpeachable that person is, when nothing less than the presidency of the United States is on the line. Additionally, I see Obama as the media's darling. He is the Howard Dean of this race. I feel that the media is giving Obama a free ride because he is hard to report on due to his relative lack of experience and, chiefly, because by crafting another mover-and-shaker, semi-populist, semi-liberal, Dean-esque candidate they can sell a candidate that will sell more viewers/readers on their outlet. He's fresh and new and people will tune in to hear about it him while the Clinton and Edwards stories have already sold their papers. Finally, I am a moderate democratic and I largely find Obama as more left than Hillary and more divisive in a hypothetical 4 year term. He is just too vague and programatic in his 'plans' and 'issues', he is a one-trick pony and that trick is repeating the word 'change' as much as possible while accusing everyone else as being an 'insider' and thus part of the status quo problem. It really is a masterful strategy, but I just don't buy into it. I feel that his seeming 'perfection' is a veil created through the methods I've mentioned earlier. It's all smoke and mirrors and I can only hope that voters realize that before Super Tuesday or else the nation will by November and us Democrats will be in real trouble.

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ratbastid

I'm utterly stunned: My dad is for Obama.

My dad has only in his life voted something other than Republican when he voted for Ross Perot.

He hates every GOP option--McCain is too entrenched, Giuliani is a scaremongering clown, and he lives as a non-Mormon in Utah so Romney's out. He thinks the post-tears Hillary is phony (the whole "I've found my voice" thing leaves him cold). But he can see a future of change promised by Obama, and he's for that.

Stunning. I'm here to tell you, if Obama wins the nomination, we're going to get a BUNCH of aisle-crossing votes.

Ustwo

Until the press stops having an orgasm over him and shows him for what he is, a smooth talking tax'em all liberal.

I rather doubt your dad knows his voting record.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

pan6467

There's an old saying.... "when someone appears too perfect.... they usually have the worst skeletons in their closet."

I don't see him electable in November and personally, there's something about him I just can not trust or like.

He scares me almost, if not as much as Hilary.

We are very limited this presidential race. I don't see one true great leader on either side.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

biznatch

Then again, it's been the same way for a few elections now.

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supersix2

He can't be perfect because his stance on the space program is severely flawed.

Willravel

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=26647
Next Gen shuttles, complete the ISS, keep weapons out of space, and improve math and science education... where is the flaw?

supersix2

Source is

Which is pulled from

Section X in the PDF

Since the information I have that Obama wants to delay the Orion by at least 5 years is from his own website in a document he endorsed I think my information is more accurate than your web link.

I think its foolish of him to cut NASA's budget to fund education in science and math. Its counter-productive you give kids a better opportunity with science and math but you hurt the industry that relies heavily on people who are good at science and math.

Its not just NASA that would be affected by this. NASA employs just a small fraction of the space program's work force. There are thousands of contractor employees for Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, Honeywell, Hamilton-Sunstrand, and United Space Alliance. Those are just the big ones. There are dozens of smaller contractors who all have jobs that rely on the space program.

What we need is a leader who isn't afraid to set ambitious goals for NASA and increase its funding to actually accomplish those goals safely, effectively, and in a reasonable amount of time.

ratbastid

Of the companies you mentioned, VASTLY more of their budget comes from weapons systems than space technologies. Like, orders of magnitude more. I know not all of them are in that field--even so, total their space-related revenues and total their military-related revenues and you'll see what a drop in the bucket NASA is in the "areospace" industry.

As far as I'm concerned, compared to what we're facing domestically and abroad, NASA can go hang. And I'm a major space geek. Having an Orion orbiter happen would be great--and getting us the hell out of Iraq, pulling our economy back from the brink, and solving the health care crisis are WAY bigger issues for this voter.

joshbaumgartner

The Aerospace industry is facing a significant crisis, particular in the United States, over the issue of recruitment and retention. The biggest problem is not training, education, or even pay and benefits. It is the sense most young people have of the industry being a moribund place where they will have little opportunity for initiative or to make a difference. The thought is that it is an industry afraid to take risks, unwilling to fund new ideas, and closed to inventiveness and entrepreneurship.

You can train all of the engineers you want, but if you do not give them even the hope of ever seeing their dreams take flight, why would they seek to join such an industry?

dd3953

i don't know if Obama is perfect. for a while i thought clintion was. granted, i'm not on the 'top' of the game.

but a friend sent me a link that was pretty cool. you answer 11 questions and they "select a candidate" for you. telling you how your opinions and thoughts rank among them and gives you a pretty good idea of who wants what.

check it out. http://www.wqad.com/Global/link.asp?...v=menu132_3_10 i was shocked by what i saw, but there's a good chance i'm not changing my vote. . . .

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[Technically, I'm not possible, I'm made of exceptions. ]

supersix2

As an employee in the aerospace industry who works at Johnson Space Center I find it difficult to really make other people understand what the main problem is with the aerospace industry.

The single biggest problem why our space industry is plateaued and has the appearance of an industry "afraid to take risks" is because we lack one major all important ingredient. NATIONAL LEADERSHIP.

Why was NASA so effective in the 60's up to Apollo 11? Because we had large national leadership and a goal.

Countless dollars were wasted throughout the 90's because NASA had no defined goal. Programs were started, funded, then canceled a year or so later because no one would see them out to the end.

The other main issue is that NASA budget has literally remained constant since the mid 80's at some 14 billion per year. It hasn't even been adjusted for inflation which means since the 80's NASA purchasing power has decreased every year. There was a time when in order to fly the shuttle in the 90's NASA had to sacrifice money from the budget to build a space station or in order to actually develop a space station it had to sacrifice money that should have been spent on shuttle improvements and upgrades. This continued for over 15 years. Now at least we have a goal to finish the station by 2010, fly Orion by 2015, and go back to the moon by 2020. This of course could all go out the window if a new president steps up and kills our budget. And then of course all the money and effort that went into the program up to that point would have been wasted.

What we need is someone with the guts to make a plan and see it out to the end. Not more budget cuts and setbacks which ultimately causes more apathy and mistrust in the space program.

Furthermore, proponents of slashing NASA's budget to fund other government programs need to really take a look at how well NASA manages its money for all that it has to do every year. NASA is charged with launching the space shuttle to construct the space station, run space station operations, run un-manned exploration operations, research space, research and develop new space technology (probes, launch systems, manned vehicles), research and develop new aircraft and aircraft technology, and do ALL of this in full view of public scrutiny with stricter safety standards than ANY other industry out there. I challenge anyone to find any government program that can do that with a measly 14 billion per year or less than 1% of the total national budget.

joshbaumgartner

I absolutely and wholeheartedly agree. I am not directly in aerospace, though certainly many of my customers are aerospace firms. Leadership takes vision and determination, and the ability to infect the public with the same. Space programs, be they a moon visit, a shuttle, Mars trips, whatever, are easy to justify budget slashing by short-sighted politicians and administrators who think only in direct dollars. Leadership is key to keeping the investment going until it bears fruit, and frankly, while we never got a direct dollar from the moon, the benefits we reaped as a country were immeasurable. How hard it is though, to put your heart and soul into a project when it might be one political gust away from cancellation?

I do not think it is a bad idea to invest in K-12 education. Not at all! But just cavalierly tapping NASA for the dollars is incredibly short sighted. A vibrant space and aviation research agency that continues to lead the way in such exciting fields can inspire kids across this country for K to PhD to study and be genuinely interested in science and engineering. $18 million can do a lot of good, but so can inspiring kids (and adults) with programs that we do not sell short, but instead allow to truly give us goals to achieve as a nation, that all Americans (and all the world as we internationalize the space effort) can feel proud of reaching.