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Old 11-26-2007, 11:26 AM   #41 (permalink)
Pissing in the cornflakes
 
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Lets define absolute free speech.

Lets say I work for a Newspaper and I find out the US has found a way to track terrorists using their cell phones. Its obvious that running the story will compromise our ability to track them.

Should that be allowed?

How is it different than yelling 'Fire' in the crowded theater?
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Old 11-26-2007, 11:51 AM   #42 (permalink)
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That depends: Is there a fire in the theatre?
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Old 11-26-2007, 12:05 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ustwo
Lets define absolute free speech.

Lets say I work for a Newspaper and I find out the US has found a way to track terrorists using their cell phones. Its obvious that running the story will compromise our ability to track them.

Should that be allowed?

How is it different than yelling 'Fire' in the crowded theater?
anything that would potentially destroy or compromise the privacy of a US citizen who has broken no law, should certainly be disclosed.
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Old 11-26-2007, 12:09 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ustwo
Lets say I work for a Newspaper and I find out the US has found a way to track terrorists using their cell phones. Its obvious that running the story will compromise our ability to track them.

Should that be allowed?
Does it compromise innocent Americans' privacy? If so, it's illegal and any ethical journalist would have to run the story. Just because the government does it and puts the "anti-terrorism" stamp on it doesn't make it sacred.
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Old 11-26-2007, 12:12 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbastid
Does it compromise innocent Americans' privacy? If so, it's illegal and any ethical journalist would have to run the story. Just because the government does it and puts the "anti-terrorism" stamp on it doesn't make it sacred.
mark this occasion. ratbastid and I agree on something.
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Old 11-26-2007, 12:13 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dksuddeth
mark this occasion. ratbastid and I agree on something.
It happens more than you think!
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Old 11-26-2007, 12:22 PM   #47 (permalink)
Pissing in the cornflakes
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbastid
Does it compromise innocent Americans' privacy? If so, it's illegal and any ethical journalist would have to run the story. Just because the government does it and puts the "anti-terrorism" stamp on it doesn't make it sacred.
Actually you are adding to the concept in areas it need not go to get a feel.

I'm saying the government is legally using a cellphone as a tracking device on terrorists in say Iraq. We know their numbers, we can triangulate their location based on it.

Now, would that story be free speech or treason?
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Old 11-26-2007, 12:24 PM   #48 (permalink)
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This has become a threadjack. I'd be glad to start a thread, or more likely find an old thread, on free speech if you're interesting in discussing it.
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Old 11-26-2007, 12:25 PM   #49 (permalink)
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If you found out about it by illegal means, then it is illegal to print...anything that mission critical is probably classified, and therefore for you to have that info, someone is breaking the law.

If you found out about it by legal means, fuck it, I'm sure they already know.

Edit: Yes, threadjackery has ensued. moderator split? I liked this thread. I think it should be pinned, and any new politic members should be required to contribute their dossier.
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Old 11-26-2007, 12:26 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Loose newswires, cause quagmires?
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Old 11-26-2007, 12:26 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous
Would be interesting to see, with people trying as much as possible not to argue the case, and simply state their position

1 - do you support the right for gay couples to legally marry?
2 - do you support the death penalty?
3 - do you believe that freedom of speech should be absolute, or are their some limits on what people should be allowed to say?
4 - do you believe that part of the role of taxation is to redistribute resources more equally?
5 - do you believe that people should be forced to learn the official language of a nation if they want to emmigrate to it?
6 - do you believe that prayer should be prohibited from schools?
For What It's Worth:

1. Yes, what people do behind in the privacy of their bedrooms is between them. And yes, the "spouses" should have just as many legal rights, benefits as the traditional marriage. Do we need laws to permit same sex marriages? Not necessarily, provided legal rights, benefits and recognition of partners are observed.

2. I support the death penalty, I also believe if a man is sent to death row and wishes to die, his life should be taken immediately with no waiting for appeals and so on. Save taxpayers money.

3. I believe in total free speech provided it does not incite riots or disturbances of the peace. If I go into a minority area and start shouting prejudiced language, I should get the beating I deserve for being ignorant, but I also believe I should be fined for disturbing the peace. Chances are if I hadn't been yelling the epithets I wouldn't have been attacked.

In other words, I think there are decency limits we must follow and that we must be willing to accept responsibility for our actions/words.

4. I believe taxation should be distributed to help others move upward. This is done through giving Small Business Loans, Education subsidies and controls on public university tuitions, classes and retraining for displaced workers, economic development for urban slum areas, and help for those disabled. But do I agree with welfare, spending money on those fully capable of working but know how to work the system, etc? HELL NO. I see too many of my clients on disability because they had good lawyers and it is pathetic to know my tax dollars go toward them using drugs instead of working and trying to improve themselves.

5. Absolutely, if you are an immigrant you should not only speak the language but know the laws and immigrate LEGALLY. If you try illegally and get caught, you get deported back the first time.... the second time mandatory 5 years imprisonment.... NO country can afford illegal immigrants and our nation's leaders are pandering solely to a voting block by trying to make it acceptable. IT is a drain on our economy in many ways and is unnecessary.

6. Prayer in school should never be banned. It is a right to free speech. The only caveat here is sponsored religion. Schools should allow for prayer and in the process teach all the major religions equally and without prejudice, perhaps even have local leaders of the respective religions come in and have a one week class or so. I believe by doing this we promote acceptance of others beliefs and even possibly understanding why a certain religion believes a certain way. Of course the classes would be by choice, if the parents are absolutely against a certain religion, the kids sit out of that week's classes and have a study hall. (When I went to school, the school, had a program much like this and it worked very well.)


My question to those opposing this idea is what do you have to hide? Your kids will learn of those religions one way or another. Why promote ignorance and hatred.

As for atheists..... it is still a religion, it is a spiritual belief in nothing. Do not push your beliefs upon me nor call my religion names. ALL beliefs are equal and need to be taught. By telling my children they cannot pray or have religion classes is a push for YOUR own spiritual/religious beliefs and that is supposedly what you are fighting against.... right? (I state this because it was because of an Atheist that prayer and religion started being banned.)
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Last edited by pan6467; 11-26-2007 at 12:34 PM..
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Old 11-26-2007, 12:34 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pan6467
As for atheists..... it is still a religion, it is a spiritual belief in nothing.
Your 6th issue was okay up until this point. Are you saying all atheists are nihilists? If that's the case, spiritual beliefs would be impossible. I think you mean to say something along the lines of "secular morality."
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Old 11-26-2007, 12:37 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pan6467
As for atheists..... it is still a religion, it is a spiritual belief in nothing.
Exactly. Like being a gentile is still a type of jew.
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Old 11-26-2007, 12:38 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
Your 6th issue was okay up until this point. Are you saying all atheists are nihilists? If that's the case, spiritual beliefs would be impossible. I think you mean to say something along the lines of "secular morality."
It's just my belief that most Atheists tend to want to be as "devout" as some other religious zealots. I'm not saying that they are not moral or lack anything.

It's just a devout belief there is "No God" is to me, the same as saying "I believe in God". The atheist still spiritually believes in something, even if it is nothing.

I will gladly discuss this elsewhere, but I answered "where I stood on 6 issues", which is the title of this thread. I don't think a threadjack is necessary just because you don't like one sentence I put into my stance. IT"S MY BELIEF, MY STANCE.... that was the question. You want to discuss something let's take it to another thread.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Last edited by pan6467; 11-26-2007 at 12:42 PM..
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Old 11-26-2007, 12:49 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pan6467
It's just my belief that most Atheists tend to want to be as "devout" as some other religious zealots. I'm not saying that they are not moral or lack anything.

It's just a devout belief there is "No God" is to me, the same as saying "I believe in God". The atheist still spiritually believes in something, even if it is nothing.
My non-belief is god is nothing like anyones belief in god, karma, etc.

There is no 'spiritually' factor to it, but then again I've never met an atheist who says 'there is no god' as an absolute, most of us think it is extremely unlikely that their is a god and even less likely that if there is a god it will be anything like the god/gods that man has come up with.

Saying there is no god as an absolute would be not unlike a religion as it would be based on faith but this is atypical for atheists.
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Old 11-26-2007, 12:56 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Let's stay on track, shall we? I'll be happy to split the conversation if that's what's needed...
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Old 11-26-2007, 01:02 PM   #57 (permalink)
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I moved the conversation regarding atheism to the atheism thread.
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Old 11-26-2007, 02:07 PM   #58 (permalink)
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1 - do you support the right for gay couples to legally marry? Yes.
2 - do you support the death penalty? No.
3 - do you believe that freedom of speech should be absolute, or are their some limits on what people should be allowed to say? There are limits.
4 - do you believe that part of the role of taxation is to redistribute resources more equally? Yes, because the existing distribution is often unfair.
5 - do you believe that people should be forced to learn the official language of a nation if they want to emmigrate to it? No. It should be a very strong policy from the state to push for it, and to make it easy. But people should not be forced to do it. However, the advantages for speaking the language are, and should be, great. This is coming from a current emigrant trying to learn a difficult language .
6 - do you believe that prayer should be prohibited from schools? Yes
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Old 11-26-2007, 02:07 PM   #59 (permalink)
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1 - do you support the right for gay couples to legally marry?
I have no problem with it. But, then again, I'm not a huge supporter either.
Sort answer...yes.

2 - do you support the death penalty?
I can think of so damn few cases where the death penalty is truly warranted, that I'm going to say no. Especially if there is even the tiniest fraction of a percent of a chance of an innocent person being executed.

3 - do you believe that freedom of speech should be absolute, or are their some limits on what people should be allowed to say?
While I do not believe that limitations should be placed on free speech, I also feel that those excercising that right also be subject to its' reprocusions. Nor does freedom of speech mean that your platform must be supplied.

4 - do you believe that part of the role of taxation is to redistribute resources more equally?
No.

5 - do you believe that people should be forced to learn the official language of a nation if they want to emmigrate to it?
The question implies that the language must be learned prior to immigration. No. I do not support that. I do, however, feel that every effort should be made after immigrating.

6 - do you believe that prayer should be prohibited from schools?
As long as the school is funded by tax dollars, then yes. Absolutely. Although I do feel that some of my ilk take it to far. I'm sorry, it's a Christmas Pageant, not a Winter Program. A little common sense goes a long way.
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Old 11-26-2007, 02:33 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pan6467
For What It's Worth:

1. Yes, what people do behind in the privacy of their bedrooms is between them. And yes, the....

own spiritual/religious beliefs and that is supposedly what you are fighting against.... right? (I state this because it was because of an Atheist that prayer and religion started being banned.)
Dude, you've got my vote for President. Nicely worded responses.
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Old 11-26-2007, 03:35 PM   #61 (permalink)
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1. Yes

2. No

3. No limits, however, you can be held accountable for what you say (libel, slander, threats, disturbing the peace, etc.). Also, free speech doesn't mean you can sue the mall after they kick you out because you were wearing a Fuck Bush shirt.

4. Yes

5. No, I'd like it if everyone spoke English but we shouldn't force them to. However, I don't think we should be required to spend buttloads of extra money accomodating those who don't speak English (voting ballots in foreign languages, interpreters, etc.)

6. Depends on what you mean. They should be allowed to pray as long as it isn't disruptive to others. I'm fine with kids forming groups also, as long as they aren't getting money directly from the school. Teachers can lead the groups but they will NOT get paid for that time. I am not cool with paid employees leading a prayer (like the football coach or pricipal, etc.).
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Old 11-26-2007, 10:12 PM   #62 (permalink)
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1 - do you support the right for gay couples to legally marry?

Yes - any adult should be able to declare the rights and responsibilites with regards to another adult person that he or she sees fit. Not the government's business.

2 - do you support the death penalty?

Undecided. There seem to be some truly, truly, sick people out there that we can't help. Should we imprison them for life or end it? I don't know which is less wrong.

3 - do you believe that freedom of speech should be absolute, or are their some limits on what people should be allowed to say?

Limits. "Fire!" in a crowded theater, for one. But unless there is clear and immediate harm, freedom should win.

4 - do you believe that part of the role of taxation is to redistribute resources more equally?

Yes.

5 - do you believe that people should be forced to learn the official language of a nation if they want to emmigrate to it?

No. But they should be encouraged,

6 - do you believe that prayer should be prohibited from schools?

No. But prayer dictated or led by school authorities should be.
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Old 11-27-2007, 05:22 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous
Would be interesting to see, with people trying as much as possible not to argue the case, and simply state their position

1 - do you support the right for gay couples to legally marry?
2 - do you support the death penalty?
3 - do you believe that freedom of speech should be absolute, or are their some limits on what people should be allowed to say?
4 - do you believe that part of the role of taxation is to redistribute resources more equally?
5 - do you believe that people should be forced to learn the official language of a nation if they want to emmigrate to it?
6 - do you believe that prayer should be prohibited from schools?
1. Yes, they're not hurting anyone.
2. No, but only because innocent people might be sentenced for it by accident.
3. Well you shouldn't be able to yell "FIRE" in a crowded place. But you should be allowed to publicly express your thoughts.
4. No, taxation should be used for the betterment of society, e.g. research, healthcare, defense, etc.
5. Yes, you can't contribute to society if you can't speak the language.
6. You shouldn't be able to tell someone not to pray. You also shouldn't be able to have an official prayer or endorsement of religion.
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Old 11-28-2007, 08:10 AM   #64 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
1 - do you support the right for gay couples to legally marry?
yes.

Quote:
2 - do you support the death penalty?
no

Quote:
3 - do you believe that freedom of speech should be absolute, or are their some limits on what people should be allowed to say?
i support an expansive freedom of speech.
there are some limits that are required: the example of yelling fire in a crowded theater comes to mind.

Quote:
4 - do you believe that part of the role of taxation is to redistribute resources more equally?
this is obvious: part of the function of (modern forms of) taxation is the redistribution of wealth. i don't see this as a question of belief. it is a simple fact.

Quote:
5 - do you believe that people should be forced to learn the official language of a nation if they want to emmigrate to it?
why have an official language?
i see nationalism as a collective mental disorder and an "official language" only rational as a variant of nationalism.

on the second part: i lived in france for 5 years. based on that experience, i dont see the function of *forcing* people to learn the dominant language--i would think that being able to operate day-to-day would do that on its own.
any idea of *forcing* emigrés to learn an "official language" seems to me neurotic, a redundant ritual that serves mostly a therapeutic function for others.

Quote:
6 - do you believe that prayer should be prohibited from schools?
baraka raises the sticky point about this one above.
i would make a distinction between school-endorsed/required prayer (including a pledge of allegiance) on the grounds that a school is public (if applicable) and that public spaces are governed by the separation of church and state.
but i do not support any suppression of kid's rights to pray independently.
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Old 11-28-2007, 04:08 PM   #65 (permalink)
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As a religious conservative I believe:

1. Absolutely yes. Whether marriage or civil unions, as good conservatives, we should be promoting and encouraging these types of family values. It is not for the government to meddle in other people's lives. I really don't understand why it is even an issue. I will go one step further and advocate adoption for homosexual couples as well (assuming they are qualified: stable, financially well etc). Seems like a perfect solution to me.

2. No. It is not the purview of mankind to play "God". For the same reason I am against abortion, I am against the death penalty. I agree with roachboy's contention about "state sanctioned murder or violence. I also agree with host's view that we need to be better and above this type of punitive measure. I suppose I will have to elaborate on the other thread.

3. Freedom of speech is directly tied to freedom of religion. Yes, it is absolute but with the caveat that should your speech cause harm to others, you will be held criminally or civilly liable for it.

4. If redistribution means robbing Paul to pay Peter, or "by those who can to those who can't", or anything else remotely Marxist or socialist, then no, no, no, no ,no!! Taxation is a financial tool for government operations, not as a theft operation from one set of people to "give" to another.

5. Yes!! An official language is a wonderful way to unite our awesome, multi-cultural, and diverse country (not for nationalistic reasons). I would use "required" rather than "force" (these types of questioning is really prejudicial and points out the flaws of polls). A basic command of the language should suffice.

6. No. Why should prayer be banned from schools? It is directly tied in to question 3 - freedom of speech. Every one should be allowed to pray in school, teachers included. I think schools should accommodate Muslim students who need to pray etc. and if a Muslim teacher wants to lead them, they should be allowed. Same goes with a football coach who wants to lead his team in prayer. It's all about choices and options. No one should be forced to suppress their religion and no one should be forced to participate either.

Cool thread StrangeFamous.
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Old 11-29-2007, 10:40 AM   #66 (permalink)
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1 - do you support the right for gay couples to legally marry?

I believe that the decision about who to <i>marry</i> should rest solely within the religious institutions that marry people. I believe that the state should recognize the legal equality of GLBT individuals joined in a union. In short, I believe the state shouldn't marry any couple, gay, straight, or otherwise, and that civil unions should be the standard for government with marriage reserved for religions.

2 - do you support the death penalty?

In theory, yes. But in practice I cannot support a system that deals out final judgment and has a potential for error. I can see it, as is now, in only extremely limited circumstances such as confession or undeniable evidence (like a clear video).

3 - do you believe that freedom of speech should be absolute, or are their some limits on what people should be allowed to say?

No, but I believe in maximizing the right and requiring the strictest of standards to justify limitation. Clear and present danger suffices. The Supreme Court can be, and actually is, trusted with the authority to adjudicate issues that arise.

4 - do you believe that part of the role of taxation is to redistribute resources more equally?

No, the purpose of taxation is to build infrastructure, fund armed forces, and, yes, some social programs. I believe in a limited welfare system that technically redistributes some wealth, but the goal should not be to distribute the wealth more equally but to ensure that the poorest can get by.

5 - do you believe that people should be forced to learn the official language of a nation if they want to emigrate to it?

Not outright, but neither should the government have to accommodate those who don't by printing documents in other languages or even being required to hire foreign speakers. So perhaps it can be constructively required, but the more power to someone who wants to get by without.

6 - do you believe that prayer should be prohibited from schools?

Not prohibited, but absolutely never endorsed. You can have student prayer groups as long as there is equal support for secular and other religious groups.
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Old 11-29-2007, 10:53 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous
Would be interesting to see, with people trying as much as possible not to argue the case, and simply state their position

1 - do you support the right for gay couples to legally marry?
2 - do you support the death penalty?
3 - do you believe that freedom of speech should be absolute, or are their some limits on what people should be allowed to say?
4 - do you believe that part of the role of taxation is to redistribute resources more equally?
5 - do you believe that people should be forced to learn the official language of a nation if they want to emmigrate to it?
6 - do you believe that prayer should be prohibited from schools?
1) No
2) Yes. In cases where the person has confessed or where there is reliable evidence and/or witnesses, appeals should be limited.
3) For the most part, yes. If the purpose of your free speech is to incite violence or panic, there may be consequences.
4) Absolutely not.
5) No. However, the government and businesses should not be forced to accommodate you. If you are unwilling to learn English in order to get a job, the government should not be expected to support you.
6) No, although it should be totally voluntary. Intimidating or harassing someone because they don't participate should be illegal.
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Old 11-29-2007, 11:04 AM   #68 (permalink)
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1 - do you support the right for gay couples to legally marry? yes, what the fuck do I care?
2 - do you support the death penalty? no, we should be above the barbarism of killing each other as penalties by this point in our civilization's evolution.
3 - do you believe that freedom of speech should be absolute, or are their some limits on what people should be allowed to say? not absolute, but as free as possible-I think the "clear and present danger" rule is a good one in theory, though it doesn't get used as well as I'd like.
4 - do you believe that part of the role of taxation is to redistribute resources more equally? definitely not. Taxation should be about providing public goods and services as efficiently as possible.
5 - do you believe that people should be forced to learn the official language of a nation if they want to immigrate to it? yes, though I wouldn't require fluency. Communication is too important to an individual's ability to contribute to society to not have language be a requirement.
6 - do you believe that prayer should be prohibited from schools? Organized prayer conducted by faculty members as faculty members should absolutely be prohibited in public school. Informal prayer which does not disrupt the learning environment by individuals as individuals should not be, however.
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Old 12-01-2007, 06:27 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous
1 - do you support the right for gay couples to legally marry?yes[/COLOR]
2 - do you support the death penalty?yes
3 - do you believe that freedom of speech should be absolute, or are their some limits on what people should be allowed to say?there should be some limits regarding death threats and things of that nature
4 - do you believe that part of the role of taxation is to redistribute resources more equally?it should be, yes
5 - do you believe that people should be forced to learn the official language of a nation if they want to emmigrate to it? absofuckinglutely
6 - do you believe that prayer should be prohibited from schools? yes
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Old 12-08-2007, 09:20 PM   #70 (permalink)
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1 - do you support the right for gay couples to legally marry?
- Yes. Any adult couple ought to have the right to be seen equally in the eyes of the law.
2 - do you support the death penalty?
- No. Deadly force should be limited to use upon those who are in the act of killing or creating an imminent threat on the life of another.
3 - do you believe that freedom of speech should be absolute, or are their some limits on what people should be allowed to say?
- No. All rights have limits. However, protection of rights to the maximum level possible should be absolutely important. Limits shall be universal, not special-case.
4 - do you believe that part of the role of taxation is to redistribute resources more equally?
- No. Taxation exists to fund the actions of government to protect and improve the lives of all people under its jurisdiction. Redistribution may be a side effect, but should not be a goal.
5 - do you believe that people should be forced to learn the official language of a nation if they want to emmigrate to it?
- N/A. I can only speak for my own nation, the United States. Since the USA does not have an official language, this question is moot for me. (Hypothetically, if we did, my answer would be no, though.)
6 - do you believe that prayer should be prohibited from schools?
- No. Students ought to be able to exercise free speech. Naturally, this means it must be non-disruptive. Public schools should not sponsor or otherwise encourage or discourage prayer by students.

BTW... a non-scientific count through this response (brought to you by the wonderful folks at Diebold):

1 - Gay Marriage? 36 Yes, 1 No, 2 Maybe
2 - Death Penalty? 17 Yes, 22 No, 2 Maybe
3 - Limits on Free Speech? 14 None, 26 Some
4 - Taxes for Redistribution? 18 Yes, 23 No
5 - Forced Language? 19 Yes, 19 No, 3 Sometimes
6 - Ban School Prayer? 12 Yes, 28 No

Interesting.

Last edited by joshbaumgartner; 12-08-2007 at 10:07 PM..
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Old 12-08-2007, 10:30 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Location: Greater Boston area
1 - do you support the right for gay couples to legally marry?
yes. marriage has become more of a legal entity than a religious one. why should gays have the same legal benefits as hetros.

2 - do you support the death penalty?
yes but the current system needs an overhaul

3 - do you believe that freedom of speech should be absolute, or are their some limits on what people should be allowed to say?
there are no absolutes

4 - do you believe that part of the role of taxation is to redistribute resources more equally?
no.

5 - do you believe that people should be forced to learn the official language of a nation if they want to emmigrate to it?
if there is an official language, sure.

6 - do you believe that prayer should be prohibited from schools?
yes for public schools.
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Old 12-09-2007, 05:26 AM   #72 (permalink)
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Location: Central Central Florida
Quote:
1 - do you support the right for gay couples to legally marry?
2 - do you support the death penalty?
3 - do you believe that freedom of speech should be absolute, or are their some limits on what people should be allowed to say?
4 - do you believe that part of the role of taxation is to redistribute resources more equally?
5 - do you believe that people should be forced to learn the official language of a nation if they want to emmigrate to it?
6 - do you believe that prayer should be prohibited from schools?
1. Yes.
2. No.
3. Yes, with few exceptions.
4. Unclear question, but based on my interpretation, no. It's not the role or purpose.
5. Yes. When in Rome ...
6. Prohibited? No. Special prayer time for all? No. Silent prayer for those who so desire works for me.
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Old 12-09-2007, 06:06 AM   #73 (permalink)
 
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Location: Iceland
Simply stating my position, as SF asked for in the OP:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous
1 - do you support the right for gay couples to legally marry?
Yes.
Quote:
2 - do you support the death penalty?
No.
Quote:
3 - do you believe that freedom of speech should be absolute, or are their some limits on what people should be allowed to say?
No, not absolute.
Quote:
4 - do you believe that part of the role of taxation is to redistribute resources more equally?
Yes.
Quote:
5 - do you believe that people should be forced to learn the official language of a nation if they want to emmigrate to it?
Forced? No. Encouraged? Yes, and offered completely free classes at any time of day that is convenient to them, including at their work place, where their language learning should be part of their paid hours of work. I also happen to think every American should have to learn Spanish and French, in addition to English, from elementary school onwards.
Quote:
6 - do you believe that prayer should be prohibited from schools?
Yes -- if you mean prohibited from being enforced in any way. However, I think prayer should be allowed as long as it doesn't interrupt the regular school schedule and doesn't interfere with the learning environment.
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Old 12-25-2007, 09:49 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Location: Back in Ohio
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous
Would be interesting to see, with people trying as much as possible not to argue the case, and simply state their position

1 - do you support the right for gay couples to legally marry?
2 - do you support the death penalty?
3 - do you believe that freedom of speech should be absolute, or are their some limits on what people should be allowed to say?
4 - do you believe that part of the role of taxation is to redistribute resources more equally?
5 - do you believe that people should be forced to learn the official language of a nation if they want to emigrate to it?
6 - do you believe that prayer should be prohibited from schools?
1. The state should recognize it as something different than 'marriage', but they should get the same rights.

2. I support cruel & unusual punishment if you premeditated a crime.

3. Yeah, fuck yeah.

4. Yes, and to keep people from holding on to too much money. It also pays for socialized public programs that are good.

5. Yes, they should get a book or something at the library.

6. I don't care as long as it is voluntary. If you aren't religious, then you can sit and relax for a while.
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Old 12-25-2007, 11:12 PM   #75 (permalink)
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1 - do you support the right for gay couples to legally marry? Yup.
2 - do you support the death penalty? Also, yup.
3 - do you believe that freedom of speech should be absolute, or are their some limits on what people should be allowed to say? There needs to be limits.
4 - do you believe that part of the role of taxation is to redistribute resources more equally? No.
5 - do you believe that people should be forced to learn the official language of a nation if they want to emmigrate to it? Oh hell yeah.
6 - do you believe that prayer should be prohibited from schools? Nope.
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Old 12-26-2007, 08:14 AM   #76 (permalink)
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Location: Maineville, OH
I'll start off by prefacing that I am an American citizen, and all of my responses are therefore America-centric. I do not purport to know how other countries should be managed/governed/run.

1 - do you support the right for gay couples to legally marry? - Yes...and I also support contract marriages, "community" marriages, etc.

2 - do you support the death penalty? - YES, in cases of 1st degree murder and/or treason.

3 - do you believe that freedom of speech should be absolute, or are their some limits on what people should be allowed to say? - Against the government: No limits, aside from where such speech would be treasonous.

Against individual entities: Limits for defamation should exist.

Artistic free speech: No limits, although limits may be made for the viewing of erotic/pornographic/obscene artistic endeavors. The ruling on what is, exactly, considered erotic/pornographic/obscene enough to be limited should be placed at the local government level via a two-thirds majority of the popular vote.


4 - do you believe that part of the role of taxation is to redistribute resources more equally? - NO. I believe that the role of taxation is to fund the Governments' responsibility to provide vital services to the populace at large.

5 - do you believe that people should be forced to learn the official language of a nation if they want to emmigrate to it? NO - not in order to immigrate to a country...but in order to obtain citizenship, I think some basic level of fluency must be obtained. It is very difficult to know one's rights if that fluency is not achieved.

6 - do you believe that prayer should be prohibited from schools? For Public Schools: NO - As long as there are examinations, you will always have prayer in schools!

But let me elaborate: I believe that school-mandated prayer should be prohibited. However, I do feel that voluntary, student-led prayer must be allowed!.
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Last edited by ScottKuma; 12-26-2007 at 08:21 AM.. Reason: trimmed down to comply with Original Poster's request
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Old 12-26-2007, 09:27 AM   #77 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous
Would be interesting to see, with people trying as much as possible not to argue the case, and simply state their position

1 - do you support the right for gay couples to legally marry?
2 - do you support the death penalty?
3 - do you believe that freedom of speech should be absolute, or are their some limits on what people should be allowed to say?
4 - do you believe that part of the role of taxation is to redistribute resources more equally?
5 - do you believe that people should be forced to learn the official language of a nation if they want to emmigrate to it?
6 - do you believe that prayer should be prohibited from schools?

__

My answers

1 - yes
2 - no
3 - freedom of speech should have some limits
4 - yes
5 - yes
6 - no
1. No, but let us separate 'marriage' as a blanket term and use instead civil union or some variation of that. Let that be the legal terminology for all unions, MW,MM,WW,MWM,WMW. Let the church, synogoge, mosque, decide if they will participate. Then further, let that entity along with the couple call their union what ever they want.

2. Yes, but not as a deterent, but as a means of clearing the jail cells.

3. Freedom of speech should be absolute, even yelling fire in a theater. But you should be made criminally liabe for any trouble you cause. Ensite violence and share a sentence with the one who committed the act. Yell fire and be prepared to cover the cost of any injuries or damage from a broken nail to revenue lost when everybody evacuated.

4. Taxation should be used to fund the services government provides.

5. No one should be forced to learn an official language, but we shouldn't bend to accomidate those who chose not to. So have an official language and as an immigrant you'll know that until you learn it you won't prosper.

6. Prayer should not be forced or prohibited in schools. We got that quite time deal now, do what the hell you want.
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Old 12-28-2007, 04:36 AM   #78 (permalink)
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Location: Kansas City, MO
1 - do you support the right for gay couples to legally marry?
Yes, marriage is a religious thing, and should have nothing to do with the government.
2 - do you support the death penalty?
I tend to support this idea, but since a large portion are later found innocent, the government has no business attempting to implement this. .
3 - do you believe that freedom of speech should be absolute, or are their some limits on what people should be allowed to say?
There should be one limit - When it can be proved that by speaking you have compromised the rights of another. Otherwise no way i.e. libel or taking a megaphone to times square and shouting a name then associating it with a social security number.
4 - do you believe that part of the role of taxation is to redistribute resources more equally?
No, I believe this is the only role.
5 - do you believe that people should be forced to learn the official language of a nation if they want to emmigrate to it?
Nope. They should be expected to abide by the law, and hire a translator as needed.
6 - do you believe that prayer should be prohibited from schools?
No, but in public schools no kid had better hear it or see it. If restricted to silent prayer, I couldn't care any less provided that no time is taken other than breaks.
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Old 12-28-2007, 07:05 AM   #79 (permalink)
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1 - do you support the right for gay couples to legally marry?
Yes. I've never heard any decent argument against it.

2 - do you support the death penalty?
Ambiguous. States cause the deaths of human beings in a lot of different ways. i don't think this particular method stands out as unique.

3 - do you believe that freedom of speech should be absolute, or are their some limits on what people should be allowed to say?
Limits defined precisely, narrowly, and apolitically.

If you sign an NDA, you can't speak freely on the subject it covers.
If you have a clearance (or don't, for that matter), you can't disclose classified information.

Actually, a caveat on that last point. If you have classified info that you think is critical for the nation to know, and you can find no recourse within government, maybe leaking it is the only moral choice. But I think it sufficient to leave that option technically illegal and allow individual courts to decide if the act merits punishment. This is similar to my position on the 'ticking time bomb' interrogation scenario - if such an extreme scenario actually arises, I trust the courts to see the spirit and not the letter of the act.

4 - do you believe that part of the role of taxation is to redistribute resources more equally?

Yes. If you do not believe this, then you are proposing very radical changes to our current tax structure.

5 - do you believe that people should be forced to learn the official language of a nation if they want to emmigrate to it?

I echo roachboy on this. The short answer is no.

6 - do you believe that prayer should be prohibited from schools?

Communal prayer, yes. Individual prayer, no.
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Old 01-03-2008, 06:38 PM   #80 (permalink)
Upright
 
Shigun's Avatar
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Famous
1 - do you support the right for gay couples to legally marry?
2 - do you support the death penalty?
3 - do you believe that freedom of speech should be absolute, or are their some limits on what people should be allowed to say?
4 - do you believe that part of the role of taxation is to redistribute resources more equally?
5 - do you believe that people should be forced to learn the official language of a nation if they want to emmigrate to it?
6 - do you believe that prayer should be prohibited from schools?
My answers...
1) No.
2) Yes (In situations such that a person admits guilt to a crime).
3) Limits should be put on Freedom of Speech.
4) I really dunno.
5) Yes.
6) No (Provided it is not forced on students).
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