10-25-2007, 01:53 PM | #1 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Fort Worth, TX
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Is this the face of Patriotism?
Don't start off screaming, actually read this "comic." Say what you want about the evil Religious Right, about any conservatives screaming any number of stupid things... but this is just wrong.
http://www.gocomics.com/rallcom/2007...terstitialskip I don't even know where to start with this. I have never questioned people's patriotism, primarily because I think it's useless and inane, but how does one argue (s)he's patriotic if they have these sentiments? How does one say he loves a country when all he does is talk about how evil it is, and openly support the people whom his country is fighting? How does he claim to love the country, then imply the world would be better without those who fight under the country's flag?
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"Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas |
10-25-2007, 02:35 PM | #2 (permalink) |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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I love the Constitution. I love the Bill of Rights. I love the people who helped to clean up after 9/11 or Katrina. I love the people who are fighting fires in SoCal, in fact. I love that a black and and a white woman can date in some places and no one raises an eyebrow. I love that I can be an outspoken atheist but only receive a bit of flack for it (as opposed to being put to death). I love how beautiful places like our national parks are. I love so many things about this country.
I don't love everything. I don't love giant corporations that are 100% profit driven, even at the cost of the health and safety of people. I don't like lobbyists and bribery of politicians. I don't like that we seem to enjoy war on some level. I don't like that a lot of innocent people die because of our leaders, be the deaths foreign or domestic. I doubt anyone really thinks that the world would be better without the military, but they've already succeeded. They invaded Iraq successfully, they removed the Iraqi government, they found Saddam, and they helped the country to have relatively free elections. I congratulate our military who has not failed us (cept those few who murdered, raped, tortured, etc., but those are not an accurate representation of the whole). I say, let's bring them home and have a massive parade, welcoming them as victorious. They did their part, and I applaud them for it. But it's done. We didn't invade Iraq to mediate a civil war poorly. We didn't invade to arm one sect of Iraqis to fight other sects, neither of which are law abiding. The politicians fucked up, and I'm not willing to allow any of my friends to die because of it. Sorry. If the UN wants to step in as we're leaving, they're welcome. Here's an idea: Iraq needs to come out of it's infancy. The US military didn't make them try to kill each other. Shit, our politicians can't even really be blamed for that. It's long since been time for Iraq to take car of Iraq. |
10-25-2007, 03:21 PM | #3 (permalink) |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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The guys an asshole who obviously writes/draws for other assholes.
I don't question his patriotism. Some of these assholes think that being an asshole like this is somehow patriotic, that undermining the country in a time of war because you dont' agree with it is a good thing. I question his judgment.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
10-25-2007, 03:31 PM | #4 (permalink) |
Location: Washington DC
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I agree its over the top and in poor taste as an expression of the fucked up Bush war policy....but its hardly "supporting the people we are fighting" or "undermining the country".
Perhaps we should drop thousands of these Marvel comics over the insurgent and al Queda strongholds in Iraq to counter this one insignficant expression and really scare the enemy. U.S. Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld (C) playfully flexes his muscles alongside Marvel comic heroes Spiderman (L) and Captain America during a promotion of a special military-themed custom marvel comic, at the Pentagon in Washington, April 28, 2005. More than one million copies of Marvel's "Salute our troops" comic books will be distributed in May to U.S. troops deployed around the world. REUTERS/Jason Reed Even in times of war, particularly a war that many Americans believe is illegal and was unnecessary...we dont own unquestioned allegiance to a failed policy that is costing thousands of American lives.
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 10-25-2007 at 03:35 PM.. |
10-25-2007, 03:33 PM | #5 (permalink) |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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The cartoon was simply disrespectful and massively ignorant. In doing comedy, the sarcastic exaggeration must at least in some way be reasonable. We've lost a few thousand people. In reality it would have been better to lampoon heart disease (if he was dead set on being a prick).
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10-25-2007, 03:36 PM | #6 (permalink) |
Location: Washington DC
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Will...I agree it was disrespectful and ignorant.... and I agree with Ustwo that the guy is an insensitive asshole.
I just dont believe it supports the enemy and undermines the country. Neither the enemy nor the country are that stupid to give it that level of attention. Because its so blatantly ignorant, IMO, its far less damaging and will have far less of an impact than the $millions in DOD grants to private communications companies to promulgate pro-war propaganda.
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 10-25-2007 at 03:54 PM.. |
10-25-2007, 03:54 PM | #8 (permalink) |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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The military itself seems to think intelligence is desirable – its Armed Forces Qualifying Test is essentially a measure of IQ. Test takers are divided into Categories I through V, with those of above-average IQ designated I through IIIa.
Category V scorers, the lowest 10 percent, are ineligible for military service (sorry, Forrest). Category IV scorers, who fall between the 10th and 30th percentiles, must have high school diplomas and can never make up more than 4 percent of a year's recruits. For 2005, official government statistics indicate that 67 percent of Army recruits, 71 percent of Navy newbies, 68 percent of new Marines and 80 percent of Air Force recruits scored in Categories I through IIIa. In other words, a randomly-selected member of any branch of the military is more likely to have an IQ above 100 than a randomly-selected citizen of the United States. http://www.chron.org/tools/viewart.php?artid=1347 That seems about right. I don't have the link anymore but I recall combat soldiers having higher IQ's than the army as a whole as well.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
10-25-2007, 03:58 PM | #9 (permalink) |
Location: Washington DC
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Ustwo....so you got sucked into proving the asshole wrong....something of which most reasonable Americans, even those on the left, would not need convincing.
But can you explain how it undermines the country?
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 10-25-2007 at 04:01 PM.. |
10-25-2007, 04:07 PM | #10 (permalink) |
warrior bodhisattva
Super Moderator
Location: East-central Canada
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I look at this comic as little more than a failed satire. This means I think that most people won't get it. Although I cannot be certain of the writer's intent, I get the feeling that he did a sloppy job communicating it.
If it undermines the country, it is by suggesting that only intelligent people avoid fighting in the war, leaving such things to those who don't know better. It undermines America by suggesting that there is a class divide between those in the armed forces and those who look to be in the creative class. Because how else would you be able to cull the aimless, TV-watching, beer-drinking members from American society?
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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot |
10-25-2007, 04:27 PM | #11 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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ted ral is not exactly a new phenomenon.
he's often kind of scattershot in his approach, failing as often as not in my view. but i look at his comics when i run across them. in this case, you have a bit of black humor aimed at the military recruiment practices which target working-class kids. i dont think he is particularly on the mark in it. that said, rall is self-evidently not a conservative and so linking him to collective pathologies like "patriotism" seems a bit odd. i've said this alot: nationalism is a collective mental disorder...an amazingly primitive signifiers around which to articulate the usual patterns of inclusion and exclusion that make identities of this order appear to mean something. you see this playing out above, particularly in ustwo's snippy little posts. beyond patterns of inclusion and exclusion--which are only important because they put this category of "nation" or "us" into motion and so give it a sense of tangibility---what it seems mostly to legitimate is tedious self-important public rituals and a requirement that kids be forced to recite stupid oaths. and wholesale breakdowns of taste in graphic design. look at the new american twenties. what makes the comic really funny is the frothy, salty accusations of rall as part of some phantom fifth column sucking the lifeblood of wholesome americans. that's another function of nationalism--enabling people to say really stupid things. rall is a cartoonist who likes provocation. i find his work much funnier now than i did before i read through much of this thread.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
10-25-2007, 04:44 PM | #12 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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It undermines the country in that the implication is if you enlist you are obviously stupid and should die. We need people to enlist. Do I think its a major issue? No I doubt anyone who thinks its funny would have the type of character to enlist anyways. I do think the 9/11 conspiracy nutjobs have in fact hurt the country by convincing a large number of undereducated and naive people that the risk of terror is a lie.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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10-25-2007, 04:57 PM | #13 (permalink) |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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We need people to enlist... sounds like a good argument for withdrawal.
BTW, the 'risk' of terror basically is a lie. Even accepting 9/11, statistically speaking it's simply not reasonable to expect to be in any danger from a terrorist attack. We spend billions on a 'war on terror'. No... wait... trillions now. So how much are we spending on things that are actually a threat to us? We could have funneled billions into heart disease, cancer research, stroke research, respiratory, diabetes, and Alzheimer's research, saving millions of lives. Shit no. We lost 3,000 people in an easily preventable attack (from your perspective, which I'll accept for the sake of this argument), and have now lost over twice that amount total adding the 3,837 US coalition forces to die in Iraq to those who died on 9/11. 9/11 = 2,976 deaths Iraq = 3,837 deaths Over 650,000 people died because of heart disease last year. Over 550,000 died because of cancer last year. |
10-25-2007, 07:01 PM | #15 (permalink) | ||
Darth Papa
Location: Yonder
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I don't hold at all with this "support the troops and kiss the president's ass or you're undermining the country and giving aid and comfort to the terrists" nonsense. Our country is founded on dissent and the freedom to express an opinion--however tasteless this case may be. Quote:
Am I helping the enemy now? |
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10-26-2007, 05:54 AM | #16 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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Tell me what is your over-sold thresh hold? Exactly how much death, destruction, and disruption does it take to make ratbastid take notice? Do you stroll by on fine spring days and someone says 'hey weren't there two buildings over there yesterday?' and you say 'well yes, but car accidents cause more death. Anyways lets get a coffee.' Does someone say 'Man this is like the Vietnam war all over' and you say 'well really we barely lost more men in Vietnam than a year worth of car crashes, and that was over an entire decade, cars are 10 times more dangerous, so this whole Vietnam thing was VASTLY over-sold.' The greatest loss of Civilian life in an attack in the US ever, shut down on of the most important cities on the planet for a week, disrupted international trade and travel for days, but really the threat was over-sold.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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10-26-2007, 06:23 AM | #17 (permalink) | |
Darth Papa
Location: Yonder
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Yesterday, Fox News asserted that Al Qaeda is behind the California wildfires. See . I mean, you call 9/11 conspiracy folks insane! You're going to tell me that the terrorism threat ISN'T being over-sold for political purposes?? This really ought to speak to you, Ustwo, if you can pull your head out of the administration's "fur us or aggin us" terrism sales pitch, because it's really a matter of cost/benefit analysis. In terms of protecting americans and keeping them safe, alive, financially solvent, healthy, and happy--is spending trillions on dismantling a middle-eastern non-threat nation really an effective use of our funds? Does putting American hopelessly in debt--a debt our great-grandchildren will be lucky to be able to afford interest payments on--really get as much benefit as a few percent of that amount spent on domestic programs? Given your position on financial conservatism, I don't understand why your blood isn't totally boiling about the way your administration has acquitted itself and the choices it's made. If I could spent 1/100 the war budget on making cars safer and thereby save, say, five times the 9/11 casualties every single year, wouldn't that be worth it? That's all I'm saying. To say the loss of American life in Iraq is a result of terrorism is just flat disingenuous. You can't invade somebody's country and then call their response terrorism. If we hadn't made the massive mis-step and--yes, I'll say it--overreaction that was our Iraq policy, we wouldn't be losing those lives. On the other hand, I fully supported our action in Afghanistan. These days I'm not so sure exactly what we're doing there, so I can't say whether I still support it or not. But going after people who had direct input into what happened on 9/11, I'm completely and entirely FOR. Last edited by ratbastid; 10-26-2007 at 06:39 AM.. |
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10-26-2007, 06:36 AM | #18 (permalink) | |||||
Banned
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...because....on 9/11....Rudy....and he'll "keep us safe"...from the "bad" people..... Is misplaced "outrage" what is killing our country? Quote:
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www.iraqbodycount.org/ .... Is our military this "tiny"....this fragile.... listing to port...from a "direct hit" from....a cartoon? It shrugs off accusations of war crimes....the sites listed above, shrug off such talk....yet we executed the perpetrators of "pre-emptive, aggressive war", and called it the ulitmate crime against humanity: George J. Tenet, the former director of central intelligence, has lashed out against Vice President Dick Cheney and other Bush administration officials in a new book, saying they pushed the country to war in Iraq without ever conducting a “serious debate” about whether Saddam Hussein posed an imminent threat to the United States.... Quote:
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....but we have a cartoon here....and it is an outrage!! Last edited by host; 10-26-2007 at 06:52 AM.. |
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10-26-2007, 07:01 AM | #19 (permalink) |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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ratbastid - Before I tear you apart did you imply we spend more on this war than domestic programs? Surely I misread that.
EDIT: I think I did in fact misread it, it appears you think a few % of that money would do some good to the already 400+ billion we spend on social programs a year.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. Last edited by Ustwo; 10-26-2007 at 07:05 AM.. Reason: Got the numbers mixed up. |
10-26-2007, 07:16 AM | #20 (permalink) | |
Conspiracy Realist
Location: The Event Horizon
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If I sound agitated or offended, I’m not- and I know that wouldn’t matter to you. The fact you are keeping it civil by not attaching member names to your assessments explains why they are popping up more and more unchallenged or moderated. Its probably because I’m in the minority. Things like Bigfoot and UFOs do belong in the Ripley’s Believe or Not tent. I admit I’m one of those “undereducated, uneducated, naïve, nut job, wackjob” paranoids that fits in your criteria. Ofcourse I will disagree with your conjecture of what is damaging this country. Your wordsmithing is ironic to me when you throw out naïve. So in that since I can relate to the lack of patientce you have. I know you feel people should support the fatherland and be good little Americans and carry on to and fro, trust the government has the very best intentions, and submit to the spoon fed garbage that spouts out of the media. “hey you’re a great American!” It’s difficult for me not to use the very labels that have defined your trademark demeanor on people that believe what comes out of the White House. I know you could care less, I really do know that, but perhaps consideration for certain areas of the paranoia forum should be at least reexamined. Namely anything that has to do with goverrnemt corruption. Especially since you are going in there stating the same shit when people mention it anywhere else. What defines something as conspiracy THEORY? Do statements from the government denying any dark allogations make it factual? I’ll use an example that doesn’t bring science into the equation: The USS Liberty was accidently attacked. Right – just mistaken identity with an American Flag clearly flying markings within plain view and several hours worth of radio communications both attemting to stop the attackers, and calling for help. That was not an attempt to bring the US into that ME scuffle through a false flag attempt. Something like that is delusional. It’s delusional, naïve, or a successful applied saturation of denial to call the events as recognized by the two sides factual. I wonder how much something has to be in a person’s face before they even begin to at least question actions that undenayably point to consistent profits being made, agendas becoming relized, and knowing that blow back is real. I agree with you there is violent intentions aimed at the US. I won’t put words in your mouth, but the nature of your attitude and scuffing of what is clearly apparnt to people like me makes me wonder; do you actually think we will win the “War on Terror”? Do you think maybe we should just stop beating around the “Bush” and just go ahead and bomb the shit out of Mecca. Well it may not be long before you can gloat and smile, because the drums are starting to beat again. We need to protect American interests and go liberate the Iranians. <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Sm73wOuPL60&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Sm73wOuPL60&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object> <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tSBgGXoNgrQ&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tSBgGXoNgrQ&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object> <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/pZcSmsPvdFs&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/pZcSmsPvdFs&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object> <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Hz-6A59qzAU&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Hz-6A59qzAU&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object> <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7a3Bfox0k4g&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7a3Bfox0k4g&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object> <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BbnpN07J_zg&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BbnpN07J_zg&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object> <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/JX-FiXTgKFo&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/JX-FiXTgKFo&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking |
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10-26-2007, 07:24 AM | #21 (permalink) | |
Darth Papa
Location: Yonder
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According to this article, war spending has been ahead of non-war spending since 2004. War spending in 2007 is 4.0% of our GDP, and non-war spending is 3.6%, and the gap is projected to widen by another .3% in 2008. So, yes, I'm telling you the war is a MASSIVE SUCKING FINANCIAL SINKHOLE that isn't buying REAL Americans anything in terms of REAL safety. And if we spent that money (or some fraction of it) on REAL things that impact REAL American's lives, we could make a REAL difference. Instead we focus on the FAKE FAKE FAKE terrists. Why do you think our administration does that, Ustwo? Why are they concerned about terrorism instead of car crashes? Why is more than half of the government's discretionary budget going into that? I invite you to THINK about this, rather than regurgitate something or ignore the question. What would be their motivation to put the focus and funding there, given the disproportionately small statistical risk of terrorist harm to American lives and interests? You're a scientist, Ustwo, but on this issue you speak very unscientifically. Do the math here. It's cost/benefit analysis. If you can get dispassionate about your preconceived beliefs, you might see something new about it. Last edited by ratbastid; 10-26-2007 at 07:42 AM.. |
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10-26-2007, 07:44 AM | #22 (permalink) | ||||||||||||||
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Daddy Bush claimed in 2003 that he had severed his ties with Carlyle, but here is, still shilling for them, just last year: Quote:
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Less than four months after 9/11....9/11....on 9/11....I...blah...blah....blah : Quote:
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10-26-2007, 07:44 AM | #23 (permalink) | ||||||
Pissing in the cornflakes
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* Cash, food and housing aid together cost $167 billion or 38 percent of the total. * Social Services, training, targeted education, and community development aid cost around $47 billion or 11 percent of the total. Quote:
And I'll like to get a bit philosophical. Its not the governments JOB to give people others peoples money, though thats what it does in spades these days. It is its job to fight wars. Quote:
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This is why using a cost benefit analysis is not perhaps the best way to decide this.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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10-26-2007, 08:20 AM | #24 (permalink) | |
Banned
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You make the mistake of believing that...because money ends up in someone's pocket, that it is "theirs". "Patriots", committed to fighting a "global war on terror"....or unabashed, war "profiteers"? ....and....if the GOP successfully fields it's "leading presidential contender"...two of America's most prominent "winners", in terms of consolidating authority and cash.....as a direct result of the 9/11 attacks....the office of the US presidency, and Rudy Giuliani, will mesh into the undisputed 9/11 lottery winner..... We'll all live happily ever after, under the protection...24 - 7 of our new "daddy"....Rudy Giuiliani....the former mayor who did not even confirm that the man who he appointed as police commissioner, was subjected to....or had passed....a background check! I need my "daddy" to be a little more serious, competent....honest....a little less greedy....and more reluctant to wave the flag....and to transfer the people's authority, and the checks and balances, long in place to preserve it....to himself.... |
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10-26-2007, 08:44 AM | #25 (permalink) |
Darth Papa
Location: Yonder
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Just so I'm clear, what you're saying in short, Ustwo, is that you decline my invitation to think, and instead you'll do your usual thing of parroting administration nonsense and mocking opinions other than yours?
I don't believe that if you actually sat and THOUGHT, you'd conclude that the Iraq war is a good use of American resources. I think you're smarter than that, and you're blinded by partisanship and are therefore unwilling to think. Fortunately, not all Republicans are so afflicted, and MANY are coming around. Last edited by ratbastid; 10-26-2007 at 08:48 AM.. |
10-26-2007, 09:03 AM | #26 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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strange that this is happening in a cartoon thread, aint it?
anyway: let's see if we can sharpen the stick a little. if i understand the underlying argument in host's number 22 correctly, it is that the iraq war can be understood as a type of class warfare carried out by a particular fraction of the dominant economic class--the one which is linked together by participation in one or more republican patronage network(s). so if qui bono is a basic question in assessing the meaning(s) of a given situation...and it is...it follows that the war in iraq is an expression of the class interests of these elements of the republican patronage network, which stand to benefit financially from the ongoing debacle. it is an important claim. it is a shame that it was not presented more clearly. the posts cuts to the core of such arguments as ustwo is making in the thread. he is implicitly put into a position of having to choose whether to address this claim, and by so doing abandon the premises from which he has been arguing--or finding some way to dismiss the claim--which i assume is the function of the "i dont read cut-and-paste posts" pronouncement made either in this thread or another, i cant remember (and dont really care). if host is correct, then any claim that the iraq debacle is in or serves any "national interest" is absurd---unless ustwo really does accept that the economic interests of the fraction of the dominant order which is tied together by participation in a republican patronage network and "the national interest" are the same---but that would require an argument, and i dont think ustwo can or will make such an argument--you cant simultaneously hold that an interest is both particular and general without making a detailed presentation of how that might be true. another way: admitting that there is a class interest being served through the iraq debacle undercuts the illusion of national interest being served by it. it undercuts the idea of national interest tout court. but that notion is itself an expression of another pathology. so it's easier to proceed as if this claim was not on the table. but it is.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 10-26-2007 at 09:07 AM.. |
10-26-2007, 09:41 AM | #27 (permalink) | ||
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I'm gonna try to make my argument clearer.....
We we're told by the PTTB, on 9/11....and after...that we were attacked by: Quote:
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...but the impact is....Iraq in chaos....no progress in Afghanisatn....a worn out US conventional force....a worn out US Treasury...triggering extreme and amazingly rapid US dollar depreciation.....resulting in a similar progression as observed in the post Iraq invasion occupation....and in the aftermath of the Katrina disaster... huge amounts of government money...borrowed....hurled at "the problem", as common folk are restricted from participating....or are limited....by edict.... "no bid" contracts awarded to chosen patrons only...in Iraq....in New Orleans... Davis-Bacon Act wage regs....immediately suspended in New Orleans..... new "powers" appropriated out of former "checks and balances" safeguards....from surveillance....to timely judicial hearings in the aftermath of criminal charges levied by the executive....to an end run around the bidding process.... It's been only six years since they got this process up and running....and whether it's invasion/occupation of Iraq, disaster response and reconstruction, or management of spending and accountability, or of judicial safeguards and consitutional rights....it's the same pattern.... Iraq/Afghanistan....New Orleans....management of fiscal matters, of the military, of the DOJ.....sums borrowed and expended....no appreciable benefit to anyone not connected to the ruling elite.....and no measurable, sustained progress or improvement for the money spent. I observe that the "cure"....enhanced national security...or a reconstructed and levee protected New Orleans....comes at a price in dollars and abridged rights...that is too costly to bear....or to perceive any value in....at all. I predict that the "plan"...is more of the same....especially if the "leading" GOP 2008 candidate is....Rudy....offering his carbon copy combination of "the terror threat we all live under"....the personal and crony profiteering, and the listen to me, but don't examine how I've actually managed my responsibilities, or my reaction to criticism and the legal limits placed on my authority.... Just be an obedient, patriotic American and let us....and our commanders on the ground....fight this war. I'm worried that all of this leads up to a domestic version of the conditions following the Iraqi invasion.....valueless currency....rule by edict...by a president turned viceroy....with a government so indebted that it struggles just to pay to maintain functioning surveillance/security apparatus at home, and for increasinlgy expensive and ineffectual military operations abroad. ...and we all come to live in conditions....with a dollar that buys nothing, and a wealthy, connected elite, living in their "green zones"....more like post invasion Baghdad....or in New Orleans in Katrina's aftermath....than in the low debt, high dollar valuation, pre 9/11 daze...... If you think that I'm inaccurate....watch the dollar's progress down...and our military's....and our economy.....the "progress" in Iraq/Afghanistan, and New Orleans....and, follow the money....$100 million to Rudy.....the money to Bush's family and friends..... to the son of the CNP, at Blackwater.....and watch for changes in the law....and rulings by the court.... Long term...maybe there is some sort of a threat from a few disgruntled terrorists....but what scares me...is what comes from the GOP next year, and from the folks sponsoring and participating in the Oct., 2007 "Islamo-Facism Week". Their sentiment and activities seem to be a more immediate threat...they're killing the dollar, the economy, and the rule of law, and what remains of the "middle class"....here at home. Euro cost .89 cents, and now it's $1.44...and oil costs $91.00....and we don't even discuss it......sheesh! Last edited by host; 10-26-2007 at 10:31 AM.. |
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10-26-2007, 09:49 AM | #28 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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I am not parroting anything the administration is saying, said, or will say, as I have no idea what they are currently saying. I pretty much gave up on day to day politics before the 2004 election as if I continued down that path I'd have started to vote from the rooftops. Being angry over what no one here has any effect over is stupid and part of why I left tfp to start with. I THINK, yes THINK, using this head with a well above average IQ and 30 solid years of the best education available (do you get the point that I'm thinking, and using my brain, and not just one half but both halves, in a combined whole) that the war in Iraq is worth the cost. I don't care what the motivations of Bush, the 'real' 9/11 terrorists, or illuminati, or the NWO are. I think, thats ME, the guy who goes by the name USTWO on tfp, the guy host thinks is an agent of the the shadow government out to get you all, right here, typing this now that the cost of the war is justified. You, unlike many on tfp, are old enough to have real memories of the cold war. Do you remember that climate? The concept that what was holding war back was not in that we could protect ourselves but that we could hurt them just as bad? Now I want YOU to think, to stop accusing me of not thinking because I do not view the world as you do. YOU think for a moment and now think of a cold war where instead of the Russians, a people not to far from our own in thought and action, the soviet system aside, people who see no value in dying needlessly for a cause, we have Islamic fundamentalists. Think of THEM with the ICBM's but unlike the last cold war, these are in the hands of people who view their own citizens deaths as just a glorious martyrdom and ours as filthy infidels who need to die for the global Ummah. This is a game of supremacy. The problem is you don't know when you win, only if you lose. I THINK the invasion of Iraq has helped, I THINK Iran should be bombed instead of strong words being given. I THINK its time for me to go out and have a nice lunch of sushi. There is even a lesson in that, if you look deep enough.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. Last edited by Ustwo; 10-26-2007 at 09:52 AM.. |
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10-26-2007, 10:08 AM | #29 (permalink) | |
Darth Papa
Location: Yonder
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Spouting opinion is different from thinking. Actually, it's the opposite. In order to think, you have to be willing to set down your opinion. You have to give up that your view is the One Right View. Personally, I'm willing to have another view than mine be right. So far, I haven't heard any that I can be convinced by.
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Now: if we were serving the Iraqi insurgents a decisive defeat, I could see your point. But we're not. We're getting our asses handed to us. At best, it'll be an attrition game until we leave--even the top brass says that. How does that do anything but weaken our position? |
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10-26-2007, 10:50 AM | #30 (permalink) | |||
Banned
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"As we mentioned previously, we are unable to provide a full explanation of the total collapse" (Of WTC 1 and WTC 2...) http://www.911proof.com/NIST.pdf ,,,and...six years after the collapse....the NIST is still promising a report on the free fall collapse, into it's own footprint, of the 49 story tall, WTC tower not hit by an airliner: Quote:
...and in a battle for "Supremacy"....shouldn't you take care to insure that your currency doesn't degrade into near worhtlless, paper, fiat script? Last edited by host; 10-26-2007 at 10:54 AM.. |
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face, patriotism |
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