Help Me: Get Him Off Of My Couch - Without The Loss Of Friendship. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Amnesia620 · 01-12-2006, 04:06 AM

Hello again all! Some of you may not know me, as I see we have a lot of newbies here on TFP, however, I've been here on TFP for some time now, though a few months have passed by and my presence and posts have been few and far between.

The reason for this post is, basically, I need some advice on my current roommate situation. You see, I'm not very good at diplomacy, and it's not easy for me to let someone know something isn't to my liking without me, in some way, upsetting or offending the person, getting upset myself during the conversation, or me coming across, frankly, as a total bitch.

I apologize, everyone, I'm digressing a bit. Let me stop wasting time and get to the details...
I'll try to make this as brief as possible without being too obscure or omit any important details. However, bear with me, as I'm without internet still so if you have any questions, my responses may take a bit of time.

To give a little bit of background on my living situation, I'm (female) living with my two best guy friends: Sean and Andy.

Sean and I have been in eachother's life for 6 years now. Sean has remained, for the most part, a dependable, trustworthy and solid part of my life.
Andy and I have been in eachother's life for a little over 2 1/2 years now.

Sean and Andy are opposites in several different areas, such as:
Work Ethic: The majority of the time Sean has been in my life, he has maintained steady employment. The majority of the time Andy has been in my life, Andy has been unemployed. With Andy, I've been the one to maintain semi-steady employment.
Dependability: Sean has remained more dependable in several different ways. Andy, more often than not, hasn't been very dependable.
Habits: Sean is relatively clean, semi-organized, helpful in chores around the home and within his personal living space, as well as common living areas of our home. Sean helps with chores around the house, cooks his own meals (as well as a meal for me, once in a while), does laundry, straightens up the house, vacuums, etc.
Andy does not. Andy leaves a mess of various size when he leaves the house (usually for 2-4 days at a time) and sleeps a hell of a lot when he is home. He often forgets to do dishes or whatever else I've asked him to do.

He had pretty much moved out of the home that we lived in (where I currently reside now), but now he is, again, living with Sean and I. Sean doesn't like living with Andy; I wouldn't mind it as much if Andy would just help out around the house and pick up after himself. Sean feels that Andy should get a job as well, and I agree with him.

Ok, now, I have spoken with Andy a few times now and have expressed to him that it's important for him to be looking for work - including showing proof that he is doing so (bringing home applications, filling them out while he is home, and leaving with them to turn them in) - and that if he fails to do so, he is to move out on the 14th of January, no ifs, ands or buts.

Admittedly, I have a bit of a problem with assertiveness - when I spoke to Andy in December, I gave him until the 6th of January - he disappeared for 3 days and returned home on the 6th of January (and he has a large book of cds that I need to copy [long story]), and he said that he had been looking for work (asked if anyone had called for him), so I gave him an extention until the 14th.

Now, when the 14th comes, I fear I will buckle and the day will pass...and Andy will still be sleeping his life away on my living room couch, making messes for me to clean up after I get home from a long night of working (I'm a server at a restaurant) or when he leaves for a few (or several) days.

When January 14th comes, or even if it passes, what would be the easiest and most civil way to "help" Andy pack his things and move out? How do I do this without making him feel unwanted?

Even though he lacks in skills in various areas, I know that, deep down, he's a good guy. I'm very close to both him and Sean, and I care a lot for both of them. I silently pray that Andy will someday "wake up" and finally get what I've been trying to tell him - not so much about him living with us - but more of just the importance of holding a job, cleaning up after yourself, helping around the house, etc.

What do you think - is he hopeless? I'd like to think not, however, a tiny, little voice waaayyyy deep inside says "yes".

So, everyone, any ideas? If you don't have any ideas on what to say to him, in worst-case-scenario, any ideas on how to make the living situation with him any better (i.e. more tolerable)??? Any ideas??

I appreciate any help given! Thank you, in advance, for taking the time to read this and just giving my situation thought - if not, advice, for my dilemma. THANK YOU!

maleficent · 01-12-2006, 04:42 AM

He's not hopeless - i don't think anyone really is... but he doesn't have to do anything because he's got people to do it for him. you aren't his mother... and you are honestly acting like it - cleaning up after him -giving him a to do list (that isn't getting done) making sure that he's looking for a job - I'm assuming he's over age 18... well -- sink or swim time... Time to stop acting like a teenager still living under mom and dad's roof.

If he's got no place to go on the 14th - well sucks to be him... maybe that's what he needs to give him that kick in the ass... but regardless - it's not your problem. You've given him an ultimatum - ultimatums are useless unless you plan on sticking to it - just make sure that you and Sean are on the same page. The two of you could sit him down one last time and tell him -- if the two of you do it - then you don't have to be uber assertive...

How is Andy paying rent and his share of the bills?

good luck

Sultana · 01-12-2006, 09:35 AM

Andy's sponging off you. He's not a friend. You're not his mother. You are enabling him to remain immature and self-centered without consequences.
Stop it. He'll remain this way as long as YOU let him. Give him "The Gift of Independence." Throw his stuff in a box and put it in his car, change the locks. Seriously, he doesn't appear to give a rat's patooty about *your* feelings, in any way, from what you have written. Time to cut the apron strings that shouldn't have been there in the first place.

By the way, you are sending a pretty strong signal to Sean that the things he does aren't valued, imo. Aren't you concerned about offending Sean, the guy who does do what you like?

Mantus · 01-12-2006, 10:02 AM

Kicking him out on the 14th is the best thing you can do for him. I know it seems like you are being cruel but in truth letting him stay longer is the worst thing for him. It re-enforced that idea that he can coast though life. Sometimes medicine doesn't taste so good.

You can't convert people like that to your way of thinking. Remember, people don't listen to beliefs they listen to facts, the only thing you can do is keep pointing out what he should be doing right. Notice I said "right", pointing out flaws is all well and good but most people like Andy don't have direction, they don't have a plan nor goal and they don't even know how to get started.

However you are not his guardian, even if you feel obligated to help him in some way. You already did, I think you've done enough. One thing you have to understand is that he won't change in a day, week or even month. He won't jump up and say "you are right!" and be a whole new person. Rebuilding his life will take allot of time and effort and this is a battle he has to fight on his own. Discomfort is a great motivator.

Now chances are he will just go and mooch of someone else, but that is life you can't save everyone.

Like Sultana said, he is not acting like a friend and he is not showing any respect for you.

Best of luck, be strong and get Sean to help you get rid of him.

SirLance · 01-12-2006, 10:03 AM

Andy is an adult, right? Why are you taking this responsibility on? You have to get a backbone, and damn quick. Go to home depot and buy new locks. Have them set to the same key. Change 'em on the 14th, and give Sean a new key and a heads up.

Carno · 01-12-2006, 12:31 PM

Lay down the law. Give him some tough love. Whether he wants to be childish and end the friendship will be up to him.

fresnelly · 01-12-2006, 12:58 PM

Even if you send him packing with the utmost civility and tact, you're going to have to accept that your friendship will suffer anyways. He's going to feel rejected no matter what. At least for awhile. Hopefully, he'll eventually find his bearings on his own, realize he was taking advantage of you, and rekindle things, albeit on your terms.

It needs to be done.

guthmund · 01-12-2006, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

....just make sure that you and Sean are on the same page. The two of you could sit him down one last time and tell him -- if the two of you do it - then you don't have to be uber assertive...

How is Andy paying rent and his share of the bills?

good luck

Definitely make sure you and Sean are thinking along the same lines. I had a guy like Andy who turned a couple of nights on my couch into a couple of months. I wanted to get rid of him after the first month; my roommate disagreed. There was trouble all around.

The vast majority here have got it right, but let me say it again just in case you missed it. You're not this guy's mom, his caretaker, maid, personal assistant or hotel manager. He's messy, he's lazy and he's irritating the 'good' roommate. Sit the guy down. Lay down the law. It's your place under your rules. If Andy doesn't like what you and Sean have to say...well, tough.

Good luck, it's going to get a bit harder before it gets better, but, oh, when it does get better....

serlindsipity · 01-12-2006, 06:48 PM

Mantus and Fresnelly are very right and i agree with them. theonly way he'll fend for himself is if he is forced to. I had to do that with a very important person in my life last year and thus a year later he's actually starting to grow up. and he thanks me for it. Things will have to change, its either he starts taking care of himself or you will be Mom in every way you don't want to be.

G'luck

Nisses · 01-13-2006, 03:00 AM

Stop enabling him.

Either finish it tomorrow, or start a system where you set up a list with responsibilities and chores to be done. Failure to do so, means paying up to both the others who have to pick up the slack after him.

If he doesn't change and doesn't get the message, you either at least earn some money out of it, which *might* encourage him a bit more to find employment.

analog · 01-13-2006, 03:17 AM

Sounds like a regular "goofus and gallant"-type situation you've got there.

Friends don't take advantage of generosity and fail to give back in any redeeming way- so don't worry about telling him off and losing a friend, it sounds like he hasn't been a friend for some time now.

jth · 01-16-2006, 09:14 AM

kick him out. He is using you and your other room mate and is nothing but a bum. Personally I don't know how you could have even allowed him back into your home without a job. People have to work to earn money, regardless of what their financial ambitions are in life, you have to A- Shelter yourself and B- Feed yourself. Everything else is personal gravy. It's not hard to find a job but it is hard to find a job if you sleep all day. It's also easy for him to just let it go because you guys let him ride you like a pony. Here's a sample of what you should say on the 14th.

"did you get a job?"

"No."

"Do you have rent money? Clean up your shit?"

"No"

"Alright, get out."

end ofstory. Have someone there to support you, even physically remove him from your home. He can come and get his stuff when he's gotten a job. He doesn't deserve to be in your home, plain and simple. He's a bum and a mooch. I know that sounds mean, and that despite the fact that your not his friend... he's your friend and you don't want to be mean to him. That's understandable. But you got to get him out of your house or you'll be letting people walk all over you for a long time to come.

Opps as I finish this I realize the date... lol now I am wondering what happened

crow_daw · 01-16-2006, 09:52 PM

Ok, I completely understand how hard this can be. I'm the same type of person, I can't say the things I really feel to people that are close to me most of the time, because I don't want to push them away or whatever. But that is not the way to be. You and I both have got to get stronger. I've actually been taking strides myself.

My three roommates (we're all guys) are all pretty damn lazy. I find that I do the majority of the housework, cook for everybody, etc. But the bills were paid and all of that. However, I have since remedied the housework situation for the most part. It has definitely gotten alot better. I just now flat out refuse to do that shit by myself, and I've told them about it, and they went with it, because they truly are my friends. They just needed a little pushing. So I hope that you too can successfully fix your own situation.

All of the advice you've been given here about not letting him mooch and all that is definitely true. They know what they're talking about, and that is what you should do. However, one of my aforementioned lazy roommates is moving to New Orleans in about a week (we live in TN), and while he used to really piss me off every now and then with our living situation, that has really fucked with my head. So, while you should listen to everyone and what they're saying to you, just keep in mind that if you do actually care about this guy, you don't want to push him away until you absolutely have no other choice.

I apologize if I rambled too much, I tend to do that.

little_tippler · 01-17-2006, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sultana

... he doesn't appear to give a rat's patooty about *your* feelings, in any way, from what you have written.

So, I) know that this has nothing to do with the thread but when I read that (in bold above) I had to LOL!! Never heard it before but it's pretty funny...

Ahem. About Andy, I agree with what most people are saying. He's not being a friend. He's just taking advantage of the convenience of you being his "mother". Give him some tough love and kick him out. If he won't leave, make his life hell. Nuff said.

Cynthetiq · 01-18-2006, 11:50 AM

So? Where is Andy sleeping tonight? Where are Andy's possessions? Does Andy have a new job?

serlindsipity · 01-18-2006, 12:43 PM

i was just going to askk the same thing Cynth - Update puhlease!

Seer666 · 01-19-2006, 02:34 PM

You should alreayd know my view. The man is worthless, he is useing you, and you need to get him the hell out of your life. That aside, you DO need to get them the hell out of your house. He is bad news, and letting him stay there will only alow him to bring the bad elemnets of his life into yours. You're better then that. Boot him, pronto.

thingstodo · 01-28-2006, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carn

Lay down the law. Give him some tough love. Whether he wants to be childish and end the friendship will be up to him.

I like that - tough love. He's an adult and you're not his mother. Show him the door unless he shows you the money. Even then, the door is the best way to go from all you said!

01-12-2006, 04:06 AM	#1 (permalink)
Amnesia620 Forget me not... Location: See that dot on the map? I don't live there.	Help Me: Get Him Off Of My Couch - Without The Loss Of Friendship. Hello again all! Some of you may not know me, as I see we have a lot of newbies here on TFP, however, I've been here on TFP for some time now, though a few months have passed by and my presence and posts have been few and far between. The reason for this post is, basically, I need some advice on my current roommate situation. You see, I'm not very good at diplomacy, and it's not easy for me to let someone know something isn't to my liking without me, in some way, upsetting or offending the person, getting upset myself during the conversation, or me coming across, frankly, as a total bitch. I apologize, everyone, I'm digressing a bit. Let me stop wasting time and get to the details... I'll try to make this as brief as possible without being too obscure or omit any important details. However, bear with me, as I'm without internet still so if you have any questions, my responses may take a bit of time. To give a little bit of background on my living situation, I'm (female) living with my two best guy friends: Sean and Andy. Sean and I have been in eachother's life for 6 years now. Sean has remained, for the most part, a dependable, trustworthy and solid part of my life. Andy and I have been in eachother's life for a little over 2 1/2 years now. Sean and Andy are opposites in several different areas, such as: Work Ethic: The majority of the time Sean has been in my life, he has maintained steady employment. The majority of the time Andy has been in my life, Andy has been unemployed. With Andy, I've been the one to maintain semi-steady employment. Dependability: Sean has remained more dependable in several different ways. Andy, more often than not, hasn't been very dependable. Habits: Sean is relatively clean, semi-organized, helpful in chores around the home and within his personal living space, as well as common living areas of our home. Sean helps with chores around the house, cooks his own meals (as well as a meal for me, once in a while), does laundry, straightens up the house, vacuums, etc. Andy does not. Andy leaves a mess of various size when he leaves the house (usually for 2-4 days at a time) and sleeps a hell of a lot when he is home. He often forgets to do dishes or whatever else I've asked him to do. He had pretty much moved out of the home that we lived in (where I currently reside now), but now he is, again, living with Sean and I. Sean doesn't like living with Andy; I wouldn't mind it as much if Andy would just help out around the house and pick up after himself. Sean feels that Andy should get a job as well, and I agree with him. Ok, now, I have spoken with Andy a few times now and have expressed to him that it's important for him to be looking for work - including showing proof that he is doing so (bringing home applications, filling them out while he is home, and leaving with them to turn them in) - and that if he fails to do so, he is to move out on the 14th of January, no ifs, ands or buts. Admittedly, I have a bit of a problem with assertiveness - when I spoke to Andy in December, I gave him until the 6th of January - he disappeared for 3 days and returned home on the 6th of January (and he has a large book of cds that I need to copy [long story]), and he said that he had been looking for work (asked if anyone had called for him), so I gave him an extention until the 14th. Now, when the 14th comes, I fear I will buckle and the day will pass...and Andy will still be sleeping his life away on my living room couch, making messes for me to clean up after I get home from a long night of working (I'm a server at a restaurant) or when he leaves for a few (or several) days. When January 14th comes, or even if it passes, what would be the easiest and most civil way to "help" Andy pack his things and move out? How do I do this without making him feel unwanted? Even though he lacks in skills in various areas, I know that, deep down, he's a good guy. I'm very close to both him and Sean, and I care a lot for both of them. I silently pray that Andy will someday "wake up" and finally get what I've been trying to tell him - not so much about him living with us - but more of just the importance of holding a job, cleaning up after yourself, helping around the house, etc. What do you think - is he hopeless? I'd like to think not, however, a tiny, little voice waaayyyy deep inside says "yes". So, everyone, any ideas? If you don't have any ideas on what to say to him, in worst-case-scenario, any ideas on how to make the living situation with him any better (i.e. more tolerable)??? Any ideas?? I appreciate any help given! Thank you, in advance, for taking the time to read this and just giving my situation thought - if not, advice, for my dilemma. THANK YOU! __________________ For example, I find that a lot of college girls are barbie doll carbon copies with few differences...Sadly, they're dumb, ditzy, immature, snotty, fake, or they are the gravitational center to orbiting drama. - Amnesia620

01-12-2006, 04:42 AM	#2 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	He's not hopeless - i don't think anyone really is... but he doesn't have to do anything because he's got people to do it for him. you aren't his mother... and you are honestly acting like it - cleaning up after him -giving him a to do list (that isn't getting done) making sure that he's looking for a job - I'm assuming he's over age 18... well -- sink or swim time... Time to stop acting like a teenager still living under mom and dad's roof. If he's got no place to go on the 14th - well sucks to be him... maybe that's what he needs to give him that kick in the ass... but regardless - it's not your problem. You've given him an ultimatum - ultimatums are useless unless you plan on sticking to it - just make sure that you and Sean are on the same page. The two of you could sit him down one last time and tell him -- if the two of you do it - then you don't have to be uber assertive... How is Andy paying rent and his share of the bills? good luck __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

01-12-2006, 09:35 AM	#3 (permalink)
Sultana Falling Angel Location: L.A. L.A. land	Andy's sponging off you. He's not a friend. You're not his mother. You are enabling him to remain immature and self-centered without consequences. Stop it. He'll remain this way as long as YOU let him. Give him "The Gift of Independence." Throw his stuff in a box and put it in his car, change the locks. Seriously, he doesn't appear to give a rat's patooty about your feelings, in any way, from what you have written. Time to cut the apron strings that shouldn't have been there in the first place. By the way, you are sending a pretty strong signal to Sean that the things he does aren't valued, imo. Aren't you concerned about offending Sean, the guy who does do what you like? __________________ "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come." - Matt Groening My goal? To fulfill my potential.

01-12-2006, 10:03 AM	#5 (permalink)
SirLance Junkie Location: In the middle of the desert.	Andy is an adult, right? Why are you taking this responsibility on? You have to get a backbone, and damn quick. Go to home depot and buy new locks. Have them set to the same key. Change 'em on the 14th, and give Sean a new key and a heads up. __________________ DEMOCRACY is where your vote counts, FEUDALISM is where your count votes.

01-12-2006, 12:31 PM	#6 (permalink)
Carno Junkie	Lay down the law. Give him some tough love. Whether he wants to be childish and end the friendship will be up to him. __________________ http://how-to-spell-ridiculous.com/

01-12-2006, 10:02 AM	#4 (permalink)
Mantus lascivious	Kicking him out on the 14th is the best thing you can do for him. I know it seems like you are being cruel but in truth letting him stay longer is the worst thing for him. It re-enforced that idea that he can coast though life. Sometimes medicine doesn't taste so good. You can't convert people like that to your way of thinking. Remember, people don't listen to beliefs they listen to facts, the only thing you can do is keep pointing out what he should be doing right. Notice I said "right", pointing out flaws is all well and good but most people like Andy don't have direction, they don't have a plan nor goal and they don't even know how to get started. However you are not his guardian, even if you feel obligated to help him in some way. You already did, I think you've done enough. One thing you have to understand is that he won't change in a day, week or even month. He won't jump up and say "you are right!" and be a whole new person. Rebuilding his life will take allot of time and effort and this is a battle he has to fight on his own. Discomfort is a great motivator. Now chances are he will just go and mooch of someone else, but that is life you can't save everyone. Like Sultana said, he is not acting like a friend and he is not showing any respect for you. Best of luck, be strong and get Sean to help you get rid of him.

01-12-2006, 12:58 PM	#7 (permalink)
fresnelly Functionally Appropriate Location: Toronto	Even if you send him packing with the utmost civility and tact, you're going to have to accept that your friendship will suffer anyways. He's going to feel rejected no matter what. At least for awhile. Hopefully, he'll eventually find his bearings on his own, realize he was taking advantage of you, and rekindle things, albeit on your terms. It needs to be done. __________________ Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

01-12-2006, 06:48 PM	#9 (permalink)
serlindsipity Psycho Location: Boulder Baby!	Mantus and Fresnelly are very right and i agree with them. theonly way he'll fend for himself is if he is forced to. I had to do that with a very important person in my life last year and thus a year later he's actually starting to grow up. and he thanks me for it. Things will have to change, its either he starts taking care of himself or you will be Mom in every way you don't want to be. G'luck __________________ My third eye is my camera's lens.

01-13-2006, 03:00 AM	#10 (permalink)
Nisses Shade Location: Belgium	Stop enabling him. Either finish it tomorrow, or start a system where you set up a list with responsibilities and chores to be done. Failure to do so, means paying up to both the others who have to pick up the slack after him. If he doesn't change and doesn't get the message, you either at least earn some money out of it, which might encourage him a bit more to find employment. __________________ Moderation should be moderately moderated.

01-13-2006, 03:17 AM	#11 (permalink)
analog Banned	Sounds like a regular "goofus and gallant"-type situation you've got there. Friends don't take advantage of generosity and fail to give back in any redeeming way- so don't worry about telling him off and losing a friend, it sounds like he hasn't been a friend for some time now.

01-16-2006, 09:14 AM	#12 (permalink)
jth Insane Location: HRM	kick him out. He is using you and your other room mate and is nothing but a bum. Personally I don't know how you could have even allowed him back into your home without a job. People have to work to earn money, regardless of what their financial ambitions are in life, you have to A- Shelter yourself and B- Feed yourself. Everything else is personal gravy. It's not hard to find a job but it is hard to find a job if you sleep all day. It's also easy for him to just let it go because you guys let him ride you like a pony. Here's a sample of what you should say on the 14th. "did you get a job?" "No." "Do you have rent money? Clean up your shit?" "No" "Alright, get out." end ofstory. Have someone there to support you, even physically remove him from your home. He can come and get his stuff when he's gotten a job. He doesn't deserve to be in your home, plain and simple. He's a bum and a mooch. I know that sounds mean, and that despite the fact that your not his friend... he's your friend and you don't want to be mean to him. That's understandable. But you got to get him out of your house or you'll be letting people walk all over you for a long time to come. Opps as I finish this I realize the date... lol now I am wondering what happened

01-16-2006, 09:52 PM	#13 (permalink)
crow_daw Idolator Location: Vol Country	Ok, I completely understand how hard this can be. I'm the same type of person, I can't say the things I really feel to people that are close to me most of the time, because I don't want to push them away or whatever. But that is not the way to be. You and I both have got to get stronger. I've actually been taking strides myself. My three roommates (we're all guys) are all pretty damn lazy. I find that I do the majority of the housework, cook for everybody, etc. But the bills were paid and all of that. However, I have since remedied the housework situation for the most part. It has definitely gotten alot better. I just now flat out refuse to do that shit by myself, and I've told them about it, and they went with it, because they truly are my friends. They just needed a little pushing. So I hope that you too can successfully fix your own situation. All of the advice you've been given here about not letting him mooch and all that is definitely true. They know what they're talking about, and that is what you should do. However, one of my aforementioned lazy roommates is moving to New Orleans in about a week (we live in TN), and while he used to really piss me off every now and then with our living situation, that has really fucked with my head. So, while you should listen to everyone and what they're saying to you, just keep in mind that if you do actually care about this guy, you don't want to push him away until you absolutely have no other choice. I apologize if I rambled too much, I tend to do that. __________________ "We each have a star, all we have to do is find it. Once you do, everyone who sees it will be blinded." - Earl Simmons

01-18-2006, 11:50 AM	#15 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	So? Where is Andy sleeping tonight? Where are Andy's possessions? Does Andy have a new job? __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

01-18-2006, 12:43 PM	#16 (permalink)
serlindsipity Psycho Location: Boulder Baby!	i was just going to askk the same thing Cynth - Update puhlease! __________________ My third eye is my camera's lens.

01-19-2006, 02:34 PM	#17 (permalink)
Seer666 Oh dear God he breeded Location: Arizona	You should alreayd know my view. The man is worthless, he is useing you, and you need to get him the hell out of your life. That aside, you DO need to get them the hell out of your house. He is bad news, and letting him stay there will only alow him to bring the bad elemnets of his life into yours. You're better then that. Boot him, pronto. __________________ Bad spellers of the world untie!!! I am the one you warned me of I seem to have misplaced the bullet with your name on it, but I have a whole box addressed to occupant.