StanT

As a rebuttal to the male bashing going on it the Ladies Lounge (The woman does it all), I'd like to open the topic to men, as well. If this has been discussed before, it is eluding my search.

I get nagged about housework constantly by my wife. Dirty dishes, mopping, dusting, you name it. I'll be the first to admit that she is correct in stating that I do less than half of the housekeeping. However, that really isn't the entire story. I work 60+ hrs a week in a high stress, well compensated job. I pay the entire mortgage and the majority of the bills. My wife works 35 hours a week and makes her own car and health care payments. I maintain 5 vehicles, do all of the yard work, all of the snow removal (not trivial at my house), fix everything that breaks, and am in the midst of remodeling the kitchen. I also do all of the cooking and most of the shopping.

Whenever my wife nags me about housekeeping, my general response is along the lines of "Oil filters for your car are in the basement" , "I'd use sheet metal screws to fix that", or "What were YOU planning to make for dinner"

In the greater scheme of things, I believe I work harder around the house than she does. That's OK, but I'm really not up for getting bitched at.

So, how is labor divided at your house? and am I the only one that feels men get unfairly bitched at over housework?

Elphaba

I haven't replied in the Ladies' Lounge topic because, in truth, my husband does all of the cooking, laundry, and vacuuming. He also keeps the plants watered inside and out. I pay the bills and run our business, except when technical problems arise. I'm extremely greatful that he does this and he sure as hell doesn't want my job.

feelgood

No, even in my family the work ain't divided "evenly"

I can say that my Dad and step mother is in the same situation as you are, in terms of working a high stress job, being well compestated, etc. But when it comes to doing chores around the acerage, splitting up the work can cause a splitting headache to them.

I work 20 hours at Fedex in the evening doing the biggest labour job compared to others (couriers, data entry, etc) and I go to school full time.

My 18 years old step sister works full time but she'll be starting school in another city and won't have a job at the same time. She mops around alot and refuse to do anything physical other than houseworks (She's bigger than me)

My step brother is 14, currently his only job is on weekends and he does nothing in the between but mop around and wait for mother to tell him to do some work (Note: I bolded Mother because she is the only one that can actually get him to do something around the house, even my Dad can't get him to do something and usually I would have to roughen him up)

My brother is 20, he's a step above my step brother, he works full time (Currently on strike), doesn't go to school. He does do some work around the house but he fails to grasp the concept of housework other than the need to clean up whenever his gf comes over.

On your typical Saturday, I'm beat as hell, my brother, step sister and step mother would be out working on weekends. My dad would be outside working on fixing the fence, yardwork, whatever needs to be done outside. My stepbrother as usual, would be sitting in his room doing nothing. Hell, I just finished helping my Dad taking apart the fence and eveytime I went into the house to get some drinks, I found my stepbrother either on the phone, watching tv or on the computer.

On your typical Sunday would be worse, the time when everybody's home and nobody wants to do anything. My Dad and my step mom would be outside working. I would sometimes help them or do my homework. My brother would help sometimes or use his gf as an excuse to escape the work as well my step sister and again, my step brother would mop around.

My point being? There's no fuckin point in trying to "evenly" split up the work. It's easy doing that on jobs by simply paying employee more for their work (Ie: Fedex Ramp employee typically get paid more compared to data entry agents due to the fact that we do more physical labour). In your home, same situation, there's always gonna be somebody complaining whether it'll be you, your wife, your brother, sister, mother, father or whoever else is in the house.

The best way to do it in my opinion is that when somebody is working, have the others do something. In your situation, I suggest that you sit down with your wife, explain the whole thing the way you did to us and tell her what you think is fair and what's not fair and perhaps she'll see what you're seeing and from that point on, things will get better

Edit: I just read the thread in the Ladies Lounge, it's kinda funny that women complain more about the housework then men complaining about yardwork eh?

Plus, why does you guys try a little role reversal? See if she can do all the yardwork, fix the vehicles, etc while you do the easy stuff in the house. I call housework easy stuff simply because wiping up coffee stain aint much compared to wiping up oil stain on the concrete

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curious george

It's an age old lament....
I'm not immune to it either, alas.
But the thing I've notice is the complaint is not about the housework...at all.
I think my partner needs some extra recognition or thanks as she's tired, or stressed with some other problem.
A different value system comes into play too.
Vacuuming the floors and dusting is more important than oil filters, or so it would seem.

If you started to add up each hour you spent at work, housework, or maintence about the house, it can decend pretty quickly to resentment and feelings of unworthyness.
I think nagging is a womens perogative since the age of cavemen, and like a baby crying, you just gotta have it sometimes.

joemc91

My parents don't come close to splitting the housework evenly. My mother pretty much does it all, but she has a lot more flexibility with her schedule running my father's business. My dad works ridiculous hours so only has time and energy for minimal housework when home, such as the laundry and dishes. Don't even bother to ask him to cook, you'll regret it. Not that he wouldn't cook that is.

Grasshopper Green

I'm calling my shots as I see them. My husband, as lurkette's did, admits to being lazy and not helping. As for role reversal, I am the one who has taken the car in both times it needed maintenence, I have had the oil changed in it plenty of times, (he knows nothing about cars, neither do I), I am the only one to clean and vacuum it, and did my fair share of yardwork when hubby was in the Marines and yard maintenence was required by the housing officials. Perhaps some wives bitch unfairly, but I don't. My hubby has fully admitted it to me many times. And I do thank him when I notice him making an effort to help me out, although probalby not often enough. I will try to remedy this in the future, because I know he hates me nagging.

Now, I'm stepping off my soapbox; sorry to get defensive...

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Redlemon

We're pretty close to even; I think she does more than I do, and she thinks I do more than she does. However, I don't see dirt and dust, so she has to be the one to say that things require cleaning. I don't consider it to be nagging when she asks. (And, we both work hard, but she brings in twice as much as I do.)

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Bill O'Rights

I hate cooking...she likes to cook. That part's a no brainer.
She hates to do dishes...I don't mind. Again, a no brainer.
I do the laundry because...well...I dunno, I just do the laundry.
I take out the trash because...again, I dunno. I just do.
The vaccuming is done by whoever breaks first. That one's a draw.
I mow the yard, and other such "man chores"
I take care of vehicle maintenance.
I pay the bills, and balance the books.
She gets dirty diaper duty...I get bath time duty.
She makes the beds. Yeah...right. The last time our bed was made, was at the Seally factory.

I dunno...it all seems to work out. I don't think that either of us feels abused, or put upon.

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la petite moi

Blah, I hate how a man and a woman each have certain things they're SUPPOSED to do in a relationship. Why not have a happy medium, or when you see something not done, just do it yourself? Blehhhh...

And Bill O'Rights...thats pretty much how my relationship is too.

Rodney

Well, we're both slobs. The difference is that she feels guilty about it, and occasionally she'll get moody about it. But when I get her to talk straight about it, she's as mad at herself as she is at me. She's a fabulous person with some self-esteem issues.

I do the laundry because it's invisible to her. Literally. If I want to guilt her out, all I have to do is ask her to do a load when I leave the house. She'll readily agree, invariably forget to do it, and then apologize. So I do the laundry, and I get a lot of credit for it. Probably too much.

I used to do all the bills because I felt that "the guy" was supposed to, and also at first because a lot of stuff was in my name. But she saw that I really hated doing it, and tended to procrastinate a lot; so she took it over. She automated most of it, too, so that she "pays" most of the bills in five minutes a month over the Internet.

We have a dead back yard, and neither of us worries about it. I basically hack at the front yard to keep it in line every couple of month; she used to do a lot more out there, but not recently. I do have a little bit of resentment, because the front yard would be a lot easier to take care of if she hadn't put in some really complicated plantings a couple of years back. And she's grateful for everything I do in the front yard _unless_ I do something she doesn't like. And of course I don't find out about that until afterwards. :-)

We cook together for the major meal of the day, and shop together as well. So that's not an issue.

Cleaning and neatening; we don't do a lot of that. Every so often a room will get to be too messy for her and she declares that we _must_ clean it up. But then we set a date for that, and do it together. God knows neither of us would be motivated enough to do it on our own.

Thing is, I'm not really a traditional kind of guy and she's not really a traditional kind of woman. So we went in without too many preconceptions and kind of worked out an arrangement that suits us. The only part that's a little weird is the front yard; and she's been open to gardeners, but she keeps firing them!

Sage

I'm against stereotypes of any kind, and it makes me madder than a hornet when women bitch about men behind their backs and never actually DO anything about what's making them mad. I hate hate hate how some women see it as totally ok for them to talk down about their SO's, but if their SO did the same about them they'd get super upset.

If my very long post in the LL helps change just one woman's mind, then I'll feel better about the whole thing.

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Gilda

I do almost all of the housework, and Grace does all of the outside the home stuff. Because we live in a condo, there isn't much, but there is collecting rent, paying bills, doing the business related stuff, car maintenence.

This happens to work out to my doing probably 12-15 more hours of work around the house each week than she does, but I sleep quite a bit less and put in a few less hours at work than she does, so it tends to balance out in the end.

As far as men getting unfairly bitched at, I think it greatly depends upon the situation. If both parties are working full time, an even division of household chores seems reasonable to me. If one is a stay at home parent, as I plan to be some day, having the bulk of the housework fall on that person's shoulders seems reasonable. The person working should, however, be willing to acknowledge that taking care of children and the home is a difficult and time consuming thing, and that that contribution is of equal importance to the relationship even though it doesn't directly produce income.

Gilda

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lurkette

We've divided things according to who is best at what, and who likes doing what. We both work about the same amount of time, so work vs. home doesn't really come into it. I maintain the vehicles for the most part (which involves making an appointment for an oil change), he mows the lawn because I'm allergic to grass. We share the laundry - whoever thinks about it puts it in the wash, I fold, he hangs. We pretty much fend for ourselves foodwise, though he cooks more often than I do. I manage the bills. Neither of us cleans the toilet that often, but when it happens it's usually me, or whoever we pay to come do it when we can't stand it any more.

I think there are two things at play in most couples' discontent about housework:

1. if things get broken down along stereotypical lines, women end up with the chores that need to be done constantly: cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc.: it never ends! and men end up with the time-limited, flexible chores like yardwork, cars, taking out the trash. To women, this can seem pretty unfair; even if the housework is less taxing than other stuff, it takes time and needs to be done NOW! You can't feed the kids later when you feel like it.

2. speaking very broadly here, women tend to notice details more than men, and to be more invested in the state of the house. Therefore, women often end up seeing that something needs to be done before the men do, and reminding them.

I know in ratbastid's case, it would not be unfair to say that he grew up in a very traditional household and to some extent expected things to work the same way in our household. I grew up learning how to be a fucking martyr, so for a few years I played that game. Eventually we hit upon a good solution: I lighten up, he takes some responsibility. Doing work does not mean he is dominated; having to remind him to do something does not mean he doesn't love me.

I think it would be a great idea for people to trade places every once in a while and see exactly what their partner does. I don't think people who stay home necessarily realize the pressures of having to work all day; and I think people who only work don't realize how hard it can be to manage a household, particularly when there are children involved. It gets fuzzy when both people work, but it seems like communicating about it fairly would be a lot better than the quiet resentment I'm seeing in some of these posts. I think a lot of people secretly relish being put upon, and that's why they don't make an effort to change the situation. Much easier to keep things status quo and bitch about their partner than to actually be responsible for their own happiness.

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StephenSa

Well our house is a disaster area so I don't know who does more/less. I try to clean here and there as does she but we both have high stress jobs and very long commutes so by the time we get home in the evening we've got time to have dinner, relax for an hour or two and go to bed. I used to go to work later so I'd stay up and clean but unfortunatly those days are over. We also have a thirteen year old girl in the house so nothing stays clean long. Sometimes I get bitched at about letting dishes stack up or dirty clothes or the like but then I point out her various messes and the matter generally gets dropped. I actually enjoy cleaning the house (except the bathroom - Yick!) and when given the free time (like my vacation) I keep it clean but as it stands its a constant battle for us to stay ahead of the grime. I'm probably better at housework in general than my wife because I can get obsessed and go into what I call a "Cleaning Frenzy" but I can't drive a nail to save my life. My wife on the other hand is quite handy and has a nice collection of power tools. All in all, she keeps track of the finances, the housework is probably about equal, and she does simple house repairs and the like with my help (which usually makes the job harder for her). I though am a better cook and probably enjoy it more. I'm also a bit obssessive about laundry. If this was the 'fifties she'd be the husband and I'd be the happy homemaker wife! I will say this, If I was a "stay at home husband" the house would be absolutely spotless. SPOTLESS. I'd do all the laundry, cook dinner, get groceries, clean house, and do all the errands that need doing. I've known some stay home spouses that have no job, contribute little more than emotional support and still bitch about a messy home. If you're not bringing home a paycheck or going to school full time then its your job to keep the house in order. It's an important job as well.

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Sultana

Hey now, to be honest I don't think there's any general men-bashing going on, it's pretty specific, and I see more than a few responses that disagree.

This doesn't sound like a typical arrangement, what with all your overtime, plus the additional things you still do. It's certainly not like this in my household.

Weellll, feeling like one is being unfairly bitched at is a relative thing (just sayin'). And there surely are many in the world who feel unfairly bitched at, whether or not it's truely unfair.

For example, if a person chops up an onion, and then later uses that as an excuse to storm around the house proclaiming that they had made dinner just the previous night (and no, we generally do not dine on raw chopped onions), well then you can see how laughable a situation that is (and yes, it's 100% real and unembellished). And perhaps you can see how frustrating it can be to live like that.

I truely am trying to learn to deal with this kind of thing better (and for the record I don't bitch, but I do get resentful). Trying to find that fine line of live and let live (happier), and losing myself and my standards to appease the lowest common denominator.

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ShaniFaye

We both work full time jobs....I cook and pay the bills...he shops, washes/puts away the clothes, and does all the cleaning...what can I say...he likes it. But Im not above doing it if it needs to be done and he's tired

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Marvelous Marv

When we both worked, we did things like going to the laundromat together. I maintained the cars, but I was too busy to notice what the house looked like, for the most part. My wife had a job that allowed a flexible schedule.

After the kids came along, she quit her job without asking or telling me. At that point, I took over the bills, because I discovered that it seems to be much more pleasurable for some people to spend money that other people earned.

She got the housework. She also maintains some rental property that we have, and she does a damn good job of it. Basically, anything that requires running around during the day is her bailiwick.

I work in a job that requires me to be there every day without fail. It's very difficult to call in sick, because the place can't function without me. Time off needs to be submitted weeks in advance. (Like I did today, Woohoo!)

My job is so all-consuming, with work that I bring home, that I pay someone else to maintain the cars, yard, etc. I don't cook, but I bring home food frequently when she can use a break.

Because both of us recognize that our standard of living would take a serious hit if I couldn't devote myself to my job as much, our system works for us. I consider our assets to have been almost equally earned by the two of us. Maybe I should explain that statement--I was able to provide the capital and expertise to provide seed money for our income stream, but her efforts have been responsible for a great deal of that seed's growth. When we got together, I had an education but pretty much nothing else. So if someone asked for percentage of responsibility for our current state of affairs, I'd give 50% to each of us.

I also think the kids have greatly benefited from having a full-time mom. That seems to be quite a privilege these days.

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Daoust

This is an interesting discussion the subject of which is often the cause of some marital discord at my house...

I work. I'm often gone from 6 a.m. to 5 or 6 p.m. every day except Sat and Sun. I do the following jobs:
-cut grass or shovel walk
-sort, wash but not fold or put away laundery
-run dishwasher (although easy, the point is that I do it, not her usually)
-general upkeep of house
-if anything breaks it's my job to get it fixed.

My wife stays at home with our daughter full time. She pays the bills. I believe it is her responsibility, yes, responsibility, to do two simple tasks...
1. Keep the house clean. At the end of the day, when I get home from work, ideally the house should be tidy, the floor is relatively clean (free of baby toys, I don't care about dirt), the bedroom is tidy. I don't care if the bed is made but I HATE clothes all over the floor, dishes on the night table, etc. I think that my expectations are realistic, and not too demanding.
2. Prepare supper. Not every day. What's funny is that I feel like a chauvinist for suggesting such a thing. I only expect a meal to be made maybe 4 times a week. From a stay at home mom. Again I don't think that's asking too much.

Now, do you think that my wife has it too easy? Considering the fact that she cleans the house on average once every three days, and makes me supper maybe once or twice a week?

Should she be doing more in your opinion? Sorry for the threadjack, but I hope to get some answers here...

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JustJess

Quadro happens to be GREAT about helping with things. Lately (past several months) he's been the one to pick up the laundry and do the vacuuming most of the time. He'll clean the toilet because it looks like it needs it. We take actual turns on doing dishes, but if I'm not around for my turn, he'll do them anyway, and ALWAYS does them when I cook (he doesn't cook much, doesn't know how). I usually only have to take out the garbage when he's not home on garbage nights, or he's already doing some other household chore. He makes our lunches, I iron work clothes (usually only his, mine don't need it).

I'm not a perfect clean-freak or anything, but even with how much he tries with stuff mentioned above, I still get resentful at times. I don't want to live a typical wife role, and I'm pretty oversensitive to it. So yes, he hears some complaints. Maybe you hear these things... maybe think about it a little... For instance... If you're going to make the bed (and all we do is pull the covers up neatly), then pay attention to what you're doing. Actually pull them up all the way, and make sure the damned quilt is even! Don't bother making the excuse that "I can't pack/fold/etc like you can, and you'll just do it over again anyway, so you should do it". Folding a shirt is not rocket science. Stop making me be your mother. If I (or your wife/SO) have just made the effort to pick everything up and clear the clutter that built up, don't empty your work bag or gym bag or whatever in the middle of the floor. Don't leave your bag in general in the middle of the floor - are you trying to trip me or something?? If you're being so nice as to clear the clutter... clear my shit too. I clear yours.

Basically, it comes down to one sentence(apologies for the rambling)... if we're splitting the majority of the chores, as in a situation like ours in which we are financially similar, don't make me be your mother. Even if it makes sense for one person to be mainly responsible for household chores... Have some common sense, and common courtesy. They are working at making the house look nice for you and the family and themselves. They are not your mother. Don't treat them like they are.
If you don't, and you still get bitching... I'd say it's her issue, not yours.

*Disclaimer: Due to high levels of sensitivity on the topic, I will not claim that all complaints made by moi are totally valid. Some are, however.

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lurkette

It depends on how old your daughter is. Having just spent a few days with various nephews ranging from 10 weeks to a year old, they require pretty much constant attention, and it doesn't leave you free to do much at all. When they're sleeping you can get some stuff done, but that's not often a long time to get EVERYTHING done that needs it. It's been my experience that a lot of parents who don't stay home with the kids regularly have an unrealistic picture of what that looks like. Not saying you do, but I think that's behind a lot of disagreements between couples about housework: unrealistic pictures of what the other person's day looks like.

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SirLance

It's pretty even around our place. She does what she's good at and I do what I'm good at, and we both do some of it together, like cooking, which we both love. I wouldn't say anyone works harder than anyone else. If I'm asked to do something she would ordinarily do, I do it without complaining same for her.

She usually handles floors and furniture, and I handle laundry and yard & vehicle maintenance.

Occassionally, she'll be caught up at work and I'll take on floors & furniture, or I'll get caught up and she'll mow the yard or do a load of laundry.

Evenness isn't necessarily in how things are divided so much that each of us has pretty equal amounts of leisure/chore time, and each of us is willing to step in for the other, and nobody expects anybody to take on the role of housemaid or servant.

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Gilda

So I've read here and in other places comments about picking up clothes or clothes all over the place, and I'm wondering how this can occur. When you take the clothes off, at that point they are in your hand or hands. It is now a conscious choice of whether to put them into the dirty clothes hamper or on the floor or wherever else. It takes virtually no effort at all to drop clothing into a nearby basket/hamper. I suspect very few people are as anal retentive as I am about separating whites/warm colors/dark colors as you remove the clothing (though really, that takes very little effort also) but how do the clothes end up on the floor in the first place?

Gilda

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