on being a manager - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Strange Famous · 04-24-2005, 05:56 AM

ok... this may become a rambling dirge of self pity... I'll try to keep it short.

8 months ago I was promoted to "team leader", which basically means a supervisor, with a team of 5, which has now become a team of 9. I work for a very small subsidory company of DHL (which is a part of Deutsche Post) - my dept basically teams with transaction polling and processing, and billing - it isnt really that interesting what I do anyway.

The thing is, I really think I am not getting it, in terms of being a genuine supervisor. When I came into the dept I didnt really know a lot about what they did, although I had been in the business for 3 years, so I understoof the context and basics. WIthout trying to be boastful or arrogant or anything, I would say I am now the technical expert in the department, in terms of the software and hardware we use, and I probably know more about it - especially the polling of POS's than any one person in the company ever has. (Im also the companies expert in 8th and 13 directive VAT reclaim which is even duller)... but anyway, I feel like really I have become something of a technical specialist, but in terms of helping the rest of the team, mentoring.. I just dont seem to be getting anywhere, mostly cos I am so boged down in crap I never have time.

Almost any technical problem they bring me, I solve - but the problem is I just tend to do it rather than show them, Im not any good at delegating work Im working 15 or so extra hours a week minimum, and everyone else is going home on time. I really do care about the people I work with, and I do everything I can to protect them, but I think really I am just hindering them, by not helping them develop. I can see a lot of things that I am doing wrong... but I just dont seem to be able to change my patterns, I just try and take more and more on myself, and leave them with the routine stuff that wont stretch them at all... but I am not being really productive, or helping them, or leading all the projects MY manager wants to, because I am just doing everything ackward or complex, or dealing with horrible customers or suppliers to protect the team from having to.

My line manager is now telling me I cant support him how he wants cos he is too scared to throw more work at me, I know that the people below me are kind of running on 80% and Im running on about 130% - Im getting tired and stressed cos of the hours Im doing, my desk looks like a fucking bomb site, everyone in the company has the perception that the people in my team are lazy (because of the amount Im doing...)

I just dont know.... I can see the faults, but obviously Im just not getting it - I always knew I would pick up the technical side of the job relatively easily, but the "people" side would be hard... and its proving that way. I just dont know what I should change? If I just withdrew completely from the day to day, I'd feel like I wasnt pulling my weight and I know there are some things the guys wouldnt cope with - I guess Im suffering from "I will do it so I know it gets done right" rather than trusting or empowering people more...

I just feel like Im getting nowhere, and for the first time I really feel like Im failing.

soma · 04-24-2005, 06:34 AM

I am by no means anything close to being an expert on the subject, and it is very likely that you know about this, but what the hell, right? Everytime I go to the bookstore, I usually browse the business/economics/finance section for something to read. A good chunk of the books I find there are related to being a manager and that sort of thing. I haven't read a single one so I wouldn't know if they are helpful or not, but it might be worth a try to at least check them out.

f6twister · 04-24-2005, 06:47 AM

At some point you will reach a point at which you will either need to start delegating or drown, and I think that point is coming soon. You are caught in a cycle of being too busy to show your team the right way to do things, but a big reason you are too busy is because the team need to learn how to do the work which is keeping you busy. I think you just need to make time to show the team members how to complete their tasks. The sooner they know how to do their job, the sooner you can balance the work load.

You already know where you need to make adjustments, you just need to make it happen.

kramus · 04-24-2005, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f6twister

At some point you will reach a point at which you will either need to start delegating or drown, and I think that point is coming soon. You are caught in a cycle of being too busy to show your team the right way to do things, but a big reason you are too busy is because the team need to learn how to do the work which is keeping you busy. I think you just need to make time to show the team members how to complete their tasks. The sooner they know how to do their job, the sooner you can balance the work load.

You already know where you need to make adjustments, you just need to make it happen.

I've always punched the clock so I only can comment from the trenches. That said, you need to do your job and let the team do their job. You know what to do but it seems like what you lack is a place to put your personal vision of what you do there so that you feel effective instead of run down, ineffectual and with a burgeoning resentment towards your team. It seems like you need to put some time in practical consideration as to how to manage yourself. The rest will follow.

I always percieved an effective team leader as a facilitator who could help me. I never thought that they were supposed to do my job, because that is MY job. So, how do you facilitate instead of get down underneath a pile of 5 plus yourself and carry the lot? Re-invent yourself mentally/vision wise where it comes to your workplace. Bring in team members and have them do the tough jobs while you mentor. Schedule mentor time with each person for an appreciable period of unbroken time, and go so far as to have a team meeting, lay out your game plan and post an actual schedule to follow. Don't tell them every little bit of thought or reasoning or whatever that is going into the change, because in the end they need to just do it (their job) while you need to make that possible while also being the rover/ace of the team. Focus on that. Allow things to not get done immediately, because you are investing your team's time into becoming better. Put things on hold - tell your own manager what you are doing when asked about the temporary lagging that will happen while you get your people up to speed. Your goal is to have everyone including yourself at 90-95%, with the excess a reserve for those jobs that always come down the pipe with red flags all over them.

My 2 cents from the joe punchclock perspective.

Sage · 04-24-2005, 08:17 AM

I think all this advice is really good! Another thing I'd suggest is taking a look at yourself and where your stregnths/weaknesses lie in the manager department. Are you really really picky about how things are handled? Do you want to do the work yourself because you feel it has to be done a specific way? If so, I'd suggest looking at magagerial books at B&N, and also taking a deep breath and figuring out how to prioritize the jobs you get at work. Take only 70% of the jobs that come your way (thus reducing your workload) but make sure they're jobs that you feel you HAVE to do personally. I totally think you need to have more communication with your team- you're in a relationship with them, and like any good relationship communication is the key. There's a good managing book out there... don't remember what it was called but it was about a new manager, a sucky department, and a fish stall... long story short the issues that they had were caused by lack of communication. Obviously you're a qualifed person for your job because you have NINE people under you!

Have a meeting, bring cookies and drinks so it's informal, tell everyone what a good job they're doing and lay out a year long plan to improve productivity and increase job skills for everyone involved!

Oh, and another thing- it's totally ok if you don't have the people skills to be a people person- I TOTALLY do not like working in a group, and would prefer to handle things myself. Perhaps if this is the case for you you can set everyone on your team to groupwork and then just wander from group to group making suggestions here and there. That way, you're not in the group (don't have to do group work) but you're putting in your, very important, boss' 2cents.

Cynthetiq · 04-24-2005, 09:12 AM

Being promoted to a supervisor or manager doesn't instantly give you the skills for the task. There are some seminars you can go to, along the lines of promoted within the ranks, or from lineman to supervisor, where there is discussion on the challenges of dynamics from the internal promotions.

I suggest that you start retraining and retooling yourself. Read books on management/supervising styles. If you don't have one, get a mentor who is a supervisor who can help you make decisions and help you gain managerial skills.

Some subjects that will help you:

Time Management
Team Management/Motivation/Development

It won't happen overnight, but it will happen if you spend some time working on it.

good luck.

Pip · 04-24-2005, 10:56 AM

Ask your boss if there are any seminars or mentoring programs avaliable. Just talking to someone who has been through the same thing as you and has a bit of a perspective on things can be a great help. A leadership style takes time and work to develop.

The next time a teammember comes to you with a technical problem that you know some other teammember could probably solve too, send it there! Let your team learn about eachother's strengths and work as a team. Or ask the problembringer if s/he would like to learn how to solve it. What kind of jerk would answer no or not pay good attention when you teach them? Come on, give it a try. Baby steps will get you there, and in the meanwhile, find someone to talk to.

Good luck!

absorbentishe · 04-24-2005, 11:26 AM

Okay, the first thing to do is talk to your boss. He/She may be able to shed some light on where you need to go. If you don't delegate, you need to learn better time management skills. You also need to have a little trust in your employees. If you ask them to do a task, expect it will done, period. They may not do it the way you would, but once done, you can go over it with them, so in the future, you won't need to go over it so closely. Trust is a hard thing to just give out, but the more work you delegate, the more time you will have to go over it, make corrections and give feedback. If you give 10% more to your subs, then you will have more time to look into running things better, but they won't be over worked, and neither will you.

Strange Famous · 04-29-2005, 11:33 AM

Well, I've been making a real effort, and trying to share some of my technical knowledge. I think maybe now Im seeing a part of it was self protection. I held onto a lot of thie things I worked out, because it seemed to make me valuable in my job... Im starting to see (well, perhaps I could always see, but I am starting to do) that being able to work things out and pass them on is a greater skill than just having technical expertise.

One of my main strengths and weaknesses, is that Im actually very self aware, and I also have a tendancy to not act on my own perceptions. I think I see my own strengths and weaknesses fairly well, but I find changing my behaviour far harder than seeing what is wrong, and what is right.

I think a lot of my work problems also are based on confidence and being over eager to help others. I do a lot of things completely unrelated to my job, cos (not being arrogant) I know I can do them and other people who's job it is struggle - and I am not a very good teacher at the moment, I admit. I did this all the time when I was a "front line" member of staff - I used to work out all the really complex control accounts in the financial accounting dept, I used to work out the really bad messes the girls in AR made of the sales ledger when no one else could... but now I have a job that fill smy time completely, and I think I need to learn to stop doing things for people/customers just cos I can.. and let the people who's job it is do it. I mean, I now know a lot more about a lot of the IT I work with than our IT dept, and I fixed problems with prgrammes when they couldnt - and i thought it was a real strength, but in a way it makes the company weak, cos without me it makes everything harder cos I have horded and not shared knowledge.

Anyway, thanks for the advice from everyone... I've have been making a real conscious effort to lead things rather than do them, to throw problems at the other guys in the team and help them when they come to me rather than do the hard part of the job for them.. and its free'd up time for me to start looking at things that have a bigger impact on what the guys do, and do the things that they CANT do, rather than do the things for them that they can do.... and I think its going ok.

Cynthetiq · 04-29-2005, 11:38 AM

congrats on recognizing it.... that's an important step.

change isn't easy, especially when you have to change yourself.

I suggest a specific book.

Who Moved My Cheese

kramus · 04-29-2005, 02:48 PM

Sounds to me like you turned the corner. Congratulations on your new functioning perspective. The rest is slogging and hard work etc of course, but man, you have gotten in front of the problem instead of staying buried beneath it. Kudos.

clavus · 04-29-2005, 04:01 PM

Here is what I've learned the hard way -

Be explicit. Tell your team what you expect out of them and do not hesitate to point out when they fail to do so. It is hard to not feel like an ass when you do this, but you gotta do it. Likewise tell people when they do things right. Nobody on your team should ever wonder how they are doing.

Tell everybody, "Hey, I need 100%. You are giving me 80%. Here is what needs to change." Then lay it out for them.

You are already doing two very important thigns, you are leading from the front, and you are protecting your people. Keep it up.

william · 04-30-2005, 11:30 AM

Manager/Team Ldr - same thing (but less pay). Do you manage or do you lead? One thing I hated in the military were those guys that retained info to themselves, so only they knew it. WTF? It never bothered me to share the info. Why should it? If something happened to me, they could take over. That's the point. As a manager, you manage them to get the most done from the people available (including yourself). You're holding info they could use, and as such, they aren't working to potential. And neither are you. Your job is to manage and train them, not be their best friend. (Not saying you have to be a dick, but you are there to do a job.) Becoming a good manager takes a lot of time, especially on the mental side of the game. Go w/what you know - delegate more, and follow up. Put some trust in your team members, and help them excel. It will only help you look better.

Cynthetiq · 04-30-2005, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clavus

Here is what I've learned the hard way -

Be explicit. Tell your team what you expect out of them and do not hesitate to point out when they fail to do so. It is hard to not feel like an ass when you do this, but you gotta do it. Likewise tell people when they do things right. Nobody on your team should ever wonder how they are doing.

Tell everybody, "Hey, I need 100%. You are giving me 80%. Here is what needs to change." Then lay it out for them.

You are already doing two very important thigns, you are leading from the front, and you are protecting your people. Keep it up.

clavus points out something really important.

We talk about relationships and communication but rarely do you think of the manager/worker as a relationship, but it is. Tell them what your expectations are exactly and make sure they understand it. Remember sometimes crystal clear is not clear enough.

William is right on part of it. There's some things that you obviously have to keep confidential from organizational plans that you are privy to as the team lead. The rest that afffects the organization immediatly should always be shared so that someone can hit the ground running if you have to be on an emergency leave. Which brings to bear, pick your heir and start grooming them.

04-24-2005, 05:56 AM	#1 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	on being a manager ok... this may become a rambling dirge of self pity... I'll try to keep it short. 8 months ago I was promoted to "team leader", which basically means a supervisor, with a team of 5, which has now become a team of 9. I work for a very small subsidory company of DHL (which is a part of Deutsche Post) - my dept basically teams with transaction polling and processing, and billing - it isnt really that interesting what I do anyway. The thing is, I really think I am not getting it, in terms of being a genuine supervisor. When I came into the dept I didnt really know a lot about what they did, although I had been in the business for 3 years, so I understoof the context and basics. WIthout trying to be boastful or arrogant or anything, I would say I am now the technical expert in the department, in terms of the software and hardware we use, and I probably know more about it - especially the polling of POS's than any one person in the company ever has. (Im also the companies expert in 8th and 13 directive VAT reclaim which is even duller)... but anyway, I feel like really I have become something of a technical specialist, but in terms of helping the rest of the team, mentoring.. I just dont seem to be getting anywhere, mostly cos I am so boged down in crap I never have time. Almost any technical problem they bring me, I solve - but the problem is I just tend to do it rather than show them, Im not any good at delegating work Im working 15 or so extra hours a week minimum, and everyone else is going home on time. I really do care about the people I work with, and I do everything I can to protect them, but I think really I am just hindering them, by not helping them develop. I can see a lot of things that I am doing wrong... but I just dont seem to be able to change my patterns, I just try and take more and more on myself, and leave them with the routine stuff that wont stretch them at all... but I am not being really productive, or helping them, or leading all the projects MY manager wants to, because I am just doing everything ackward or complex, or dealing with horrible customers or suppliers to protect the team from having to. My line manager is now telling me I cant support him how he wants cos he is too scared to throw more work at me, I know that the people below me are kind of running on 80% and Im running on about 130% - Im getting tired and stressed cos of the hours Im doing, my desk looks like a fucking bomb site, everyone in the company has the perception that the people in my team are lazy (because of the amount Im doing...) I just dont know.... I can see the faults, but obviously Im just not getting it - I always knew I would pick up the technical side of the job relatively easily, but the "people" side would be hard... and its proving that way. I just dont know what I should change? If I just withdrew completely from the day to day, I'd feel like I wasnt pulling my weight and I know there are some things the guys wouldnt cope with - I guess Im suffering from "I will do it so I know it gets done right" rather than trusting or empowering people more... I just feel like Im getting nowhere, and for the first time I really feel like Im failing. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

04-24-2005, 06:47 AM	#3 (permalink)
f6twister Addict	At some point you will reach a point at which you will either need to start delegating or drown, and I think that point is coming soon. You are caught in a cycle of being too busy to show your team the right way to do things, but a big reason you are too busy is because the team need to learn how to do the work which is keeping you busy. I think you just need to make time to show the team members how to complete their tasks. The sooner they know how to do their job, the sooner you can balance the work load. You already know where you need to make adjustments, you just need to make it happen. __________________ A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day. Calvin

04-24-2005, 08:17 AM	#5 (permalink)
Sage hoarding all the big girl panties since 2005 Location: North side	I think all this advice is really good! Another thing I'd suggest is taking a look at yourself and where your stregnths/weaknesses lie in the manager department. Are you really really picky about how things are handled? Do you want to do the work yourself because you feel it has to be done a specific way? If so, I'd suggest looking at magagerial books at B&N, and also taking a deep breath and figuring out how to prioritize the jobs you get at work. Take only 70% of the jobs that come your way (thus reducing your workload) but make sure they're jobs that you feel you HAVE to do personally. I totally think you need to have more communication with your team- you're in a relationship with them, and like any good relationship communication is the key. There's a good managing book out there... don't remember what it was called but it was about a new manager, a sucky department, and a fish stall... long story short the issues that they had were caused by lack of communication. Obviously you're a qualifed person for your job because you have NINE people under you! Have a meeting, bring cookies and drinks so it's informal, tell everyone what a good job they're doing and lay out a year long plan to improve productivity and increase job skills for everyone involved! Oh, and another thing- it's totally ok if you don't have the people skills to be a people person- I TOTALLY do not like working in a group, and would prefer to handle things myself. Perhaps if this is the case for you you can set everyone on your team to groupwork and then just wander from group to group making suggestions here and there. That way, you're not in the group (don't have to do group work) but you're putting in your, very important, boss' 2cents. __________________ Sage knows our mythic history, King Arthur's and Sir Caradoc's She answers hard acrostics, has a pretty taste for paradox She quotes in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus In conics she can floor peculiarities parabolous -C'hi

04-24-2005, 09:12 AM	#6 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	Being promoted to a supervisor or manager doesn't instantly give you the skills for the task. There are some seminars you can go to, along the lines of promoted within the ranks, or from lineman to supervisor, where there is discussion on the challenges of dynamics from the internal promotions. I suggest that you start retraining and retooling yourself. Read books on management/supervising styles. If you don't have one, get a mentor who is a supervisor who can help you make decisions and help you gain managerial skills. Some subjects that will help you: Time Management Team Management/Motivation/Development It won't happen overnight, but it will happen if you spend some time working on it. good luck. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

04-29-2005, 11:33 AM	#9 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	Well, I've been making a real effort, and trying to share some of my technical knowledge. I think maybe now Im seeing a part of it was self protection. I held onto a lot of thie things I worked out, because it seemed to make me valuable in my job... Im starting to see (well, perhaps I could always see, but I am starting to do) that being able to work things out and pass them on is a greater skill than just having technical expertise. One of my main strengths and weaknesses, is that Im actually very self aware, and I also have a tendancy to not act on my own perceptions. I think I see my own strengths and weaknesses fairly well, but I find changing my behaviour far harder than seeing what is wrong, and what is right. I think a lot of my work problems also are based on confidence and being over eager to help others. I do a lot of things completely unrelated to my job, cos (not being arrogant) I know I can do them and other people who's job it is struggle - and I am not a very good teacher at the moment, I admit. I did this all the time when I was a "front line" member of staff - I used to work out all the really complex control accounts in the financial accounting dept, I used to work out the really bad messes the girls in AR made of the sales ledger when no one else could... but now I have a job that fill smy time completely, and I think I need to learn to stop doing things for people/customers just cos I can.. and let the people who's job it is do it. I mean, I now know a lot more about a lot of the IT I work with than our IT dept, and I fixed problems with prgrammes when they couldnt - and i thought it was a real strength, but in a way it makes the company weak, cos without me it makes everything harder cos I have horded and not shared knowledge. Anyway, thanks for the advice from everyone... I've have been making a real conscious effort to lead things rather than do them, to throw problems at the other guys in the team and help them when they come to me rather than do the hard part of the job for them.. and its free'd up time for me to start looking at things that have a bigger impact on what the guys do, and do the things that they CANT do, rather than do the things for them that they can do.... and I think its going ok. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

04-24-2005, 06:34 AM	#2 (permalink)
soma Addict Location: USA	I am by no means anything close to being an expert on the subject, and it is very likely that you know about this, but what the hell, right? Everytime I go to the bookstore, I usually browse the business/economics/finance section for something to read. A good chunk of the books I find there are related to being a manager and that sort of thing. I haven't read a single one so I wouldn't know if they are helpful or not, but it might be worth a try to at least check them out.

04-24-2005, 10:56 AM	#7 (permalink)
Pip Likes Hats Location: Stockholm, Sweden	Ask your boss if there are any seminars or mentoring programs avaliable. Just talking to someone who has been through the same thing as you and has a bit of a perspective on things can be a great help. A leadership style takes time and work to develop. The next time a teammember comes to you with a technical problem that you know some other teammember could probably solve too, send it there! Let your team learn about eachother's strengths and work as a team. Or ask the problembringer if s/he would like to learn how to solve it. What kind of jerk would answer no or not pay good attention when you teach them? Come on, give it a try. Baby steps will get you there, and in the meanwhile, find someone to talk to. Good luck!

04-24-2005, 11:26 AM	#8 (permalink)
absorbentishe Boy am I horny today Location: T O L E D O, Toledo!!	Okay, the first thing to do is talk to your boss. He/She may be able to shed some light on where you need to go. If you don't delegate, you need to learn better time management skills. You also need to have a little trust in your employees. If you ask them to do a task, expect it will done, period. They may not do it the way you would, but once done, you can go over it with them, so in the future, you won't need to go over it so closely. Trust is a hard thing to just give out, but the more work you delegate, the more time you will have to go over it, make corrections and give feedback. If you give 10% more to your subs, then you will have more time to look into running things better, but they won't be over worked, and neither will you.

04-29-2005, 11:38 AM	#10 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	congrats on recognizing it.... that's an important step. change isn't easy, especially when you have to change yourself. I suggest a specific book. Who Moved My Cheese __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

04-29-2005, 02:48 PM	#11 (permalink)
kramus loving the curves Location: my Lady's manor	Sounds to me like you turned the corner. Congratulations on your new functioning perspective. The rest is slogging and hard work etc of course, but man, you have gotten in front of the problem instead of staying buried beneath it. Kudos. __________________ And now to disengage the clutch of the forebrain ... I'm going with this - if you like artwork visit http://markfineart.ca

04-29-2005, 04:01 PM	#12 (permalink)
clavus pow! Location: NorCal	Here is what I've learned the hard way - Be explicit. Tell your team what you expect out of them and do not hesitate to point out when they fail to do so. It is hard to not feel like an ass when you do this, but you gotta do it. Likewise tell people when they do things right. Nobody on your team should ever wonder how they are doing. Tell everybody, "Hey, I need 100%. You are giving me 80%. Here is what needs to change." Then lay it out for them. You are already doing two very important thigns, you are leading from the front, and you are protecting your people. Keep it up. __________________ Ass, gas or grass. Nobody rides for free.

04-30-2005, 11:30 AM	#13 (permalink)
william Psycho	Manager/Team Ldr - same thing (but less pay). Do you manage or do you lead? One thing I hated in the military were those guys that retained info to themselves, so only they knew it. WTF? It never bothered me to share the info. Why should it? If something happened to me, they could take over. That's the point. As a manager, you manage them to get the most done from the people available (including yourself). You're holding info they could use, and as such, they aren't working to potential. And neither are you. Your job is to manage and train them, not be their best friend. (Not saying you have to be a dick, but you are there to do a job.) Becoming a good manager takes a lot of time, especially on the mental side of the game. Go w/what you know - delegate more, and follow up. Put some trust in your team members, and help them excel. It will only help you look better.