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It seems that, in this world, every living creature suffers at some point in time.

Knowing this, why would anyone ever choose to have children? You know they will suffer, eventually, on earth. If nothing else, they will eventually grow old, frail, and die. And they will live their life with this knowledge.

They will be raised to compete economically, or be homeless. They will spend most their life working, at a job they don't like: over 60% of Americans do not like their job. Wars will rage on. Crime. They will experience pain & suffering.

Why, then, would you knowingly put beings into this situation?

Even if you are a "religous family," isn't there a chance your child will choose wrong and go to the bad place?

I am not trying to be sarcastic...I am just truly wondering what everyone thinks of this. How can you bring children into this world, with a clear conscience?

:::OshnSoul:::

wow. interesting and blunt point of view, I respect that.

I didn't plan on having children, at least for quite a while, but at the age of 20 I became pregnant with who is now my husband.
When someone is not a parent, and don't wish to be, they can't and will never experience or understand the glory of it.
I was so afraid and unprepared- but as this being grew inside of me, I anticipated motherhood. Now that he is 4, I can't even begin to explain in words how wonderful and glorious it is- the bond, the unconditional love. The little things he does and the little things that make me smile and melt inside....it's indescribable and I wouldn't change anything nor do I regret getting pregnant. He is a true blessing that is my sun, moon, and stars.
But people do have their own opinions on having kids, and that's fine. I can't even fathom thinking about anything such as him growing old and dying- I mean I know that, but it is only the physical "him" that will pass. We are connected for eternity.
There is frustration in how he acts or how I am not as free to do as I please anymore, but the love and bond is well worth it and even wipes that negative part out. Also, my number one fear is him getting hurt or dying- but I will not live worrying about it. I will not be overprotective, but I will care and talk with him. He is a free bird who just needs to be taught how to fly.

maleficent

Who's to say that a child born to day, to this generation would grow up hating their job? or hating their existence? No one knows what the future will hold. Don't write off a generation that hasn't happened yet.

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powerclown

Ref: Dr. Frankenstein
It's..Alive.
IT'S....ALIVE!!!!!

joens1

In short, to help create someone who is better than me!


























If they are not, oh well!

roboshark

In my opinion, people have children because it helps them define a meaning to their existence. It's much more rewarding to have a job and raise some kids and watch them go and do glorious stuff. You look back on your life, and you're proud of having achieved something. Inherently, life has no meaning, no point. You were not born to working behind a desk for 40 years and then die. By having children, you feel that you transcend the futility of it all.

Of course, a lot of people just have kids withouth thinking about why or what. It's what you're supposed to do. Why question something as fundamental?

As to why bring a child into a cold, cruel, unforgiving world: people are optimists as a species. Nobody expects their child to starve or become a criminal or be run over by a truck or get lung cancer or blow their brains out with a revolver. You think about the good things that will happen to your children. It's human nature; otherwise we would not have made it this far as a species. (Whether this is a "good" thing or not is an entirely different discussion.)

__________________
I want no escape.

MSD

The purpose of human life is to continue the existence and refinement of the human gene pool. By not having children, you are consciously deciding that your genes should not be passed on. In other words, yuo're fucking around with natural selection

I'm not here to judge whether that's right or wrong.

adysav

It seems to me that in modern society natural selection (as a positive force for improvement of the species) is effectively working backwards.
On the whole the more intelligent seem to put off having kids until later, building the resources to maintain a family and then have 1 or 2.
Walking around town during the day I see pregnant women in their early 20s ushering around 4 kids while her partner staggers on carrying a can of lager and screaming obscenities at his darling offspring. They must all work nightshift or something.

splck

Man, I never thought that way about having kids. The whole idea of having them was nothing but good thoughts. Maybe it's because I love my job?

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nice line eh?

redarrow

Ref: Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas

"There he goes, one of God's own prototypes, a high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die."

Personally I think if I have kids they are going to have one hell of a childhood! Better just keep that condom on.

raeanna74

Ultimately we hope that our child's existence will be better than our own. I think every parent hopes for that. Maybe it's naive, futile optimism but that kind of optimism is what keeps humans from all jumping off bridges. What sense is there is us continuing to live if life is THAT bad?

Personally I think the problems that we face, the work and the hardships make the blessings so much more sweet. Who says you have to work at a dead end job? I'm not climbing any career ladder but I'm earning enough income to live. I work in an at home day care and it's so rewarding. There are the bad days when everyone's cranky and it's too cold, rainy, or snowy to go out. But the good outweighs the bad. I've seen the children I care for learn things from me. Hopefully they learn more good habits than bad.

Just because my life will ultimately end in death doesn't mean I should stop living now.

In our case we weren't trying to have a child when I concieved. We hope to have no more though simply because we want to devote all we can to helping our daughter achieve her dreams whatever they may be.

My hope for my daughter is that she appreciates what blessings she receives, she discovers a work that she enjoys, and that she doesn't take life for granted.

__________________
"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

powerclown

A Very Good Thing in many instances...




/bike just got stolen today grumble

raeanna74

Unfortunately the ones who need to be making this particular decision are the ones who don't think first and have way to many children for any one person to care for. That's the worst part.

__________________
"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

mingusfingers

Would you rather have existed despite the suffering you have experienced, or jstu have not existed, period?

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Still Looking

denim

By definition, if I'd never existed, I'd not have missed it. As it is, I'm not seeing any particular purpose in existing.

braindamage351

Our view of nonexistence is biased. There really is no reason to have kids unless you'll enjoy it. It's not like your offending anyone.

MageB420666

Well, technically, hospitals are fucking with natural selection everytime they save someones life or cure them of a disease. Everytime someone saves someones life they are fucking with natural selection. So I guess that many people would say that not fucking with natural selection is wrong.

The whole drive to cure cancer, AIDs, and genetic defects, is nothing but mankind fucking with natural selection.

As for the purpose of human life, I consider it to just have the purpose of continuing human life, it has nothing to do with refining the gene pool, at least it doesn't now that we have stepped in and started messing with natural selection. We as a race have effectively stopped the evolution(genetically) of our species.

The only way to get natural selection back on track is to let those with cancer, AIDs and whatnot, die, along with those who receive fatal injuries. I'm not saying I support the idea, I'm just saying that is the only way to let natural selection take it's course.

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Apathy: The best outlook this side of I don't give a damn.

Fly

best damn thing i did in my life is have kids.

it comes down to the parent to make their children's lives as easy as can be.

i've yet to stop learning in life and if it weren't for the kids,......i think i'd be bored.

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BASTARD

SterlingStudios

denim

If you make your kids' life too easy, they get spoiled.

Cynthetiq

some people think that someone will come to visit them when they are old and feeble, or possibly even take care of them...

born alone, die alone. that's how it is... sure you are surrounded by people but ultimately they aren't all inside your head...

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Willravel

There are no words to explain the joy of holding your new born baby in your arms. I have to admit there was a time I was skeptical. I though about overpopulation and the horrrors of this world. Then I had a daughter. I can't imagine my world without my beautiful daughter. She is my reason for living. I figure that's a good reason to have children. Yes, she will have to live in a world that has a lot of bad and scary things, but she'll always have me to be there with her; at least until she's an adult. I know that my responsibility is to raise her to be a good member of society and a strong woman who will make her world better. For now, she is my baby.
I have done plenty of things in my life that are noble and great and wonderful. I know that even without my daughter, my legacy is secured in my actions. I want my greatest contribution to be my daughter.
I have financial stability, and she is living in a home that the parents will be together forever. She will not be spoiled, but she will have all the necessitys, all of the building blocks, of development at her disposal. Ther is nothing as pure and selfless as devoting ones self to their child.

Willravel

Darn it, now I'm crying like a little girl again.

sapiens

If the human species is a product of natural selection, then any actions we take are not "fucking with natural selection" rather they are a reflection of that process.

As long as:
1. some people are reproducing more than others; and
2. A component of the traits responsible for differences in reproduction is heritable.

Then, evolution by natural selection is still occurring in our species. Also, natural selection is a blind process. It has no goal or purpose. It certainly is not a "positive force for improvement of the species".

Back on topic:
I have a daughter. I never thought I could have the patience that I have for my daughter. I never thought that I could function on so little sleep as I have for my daughter. I've never before experienced the kind of love I have for my daughter. Our daughter was planned, but I didn't calculate the costs and benefits before I decided I wanted to have a child. If you way the costs and benefits "rationally", you'll probably never have a child. We wanted a child and we are fortunate enough to have one.

Personally, I don't think that "There is nothing as pure and selfless as devoting ones self to their child." That's very subjective. There are a lot of ways to be selfless. Would devoting yourself to an adopted child be more or less selfless? What about devoting yourself to your friends or your platoon? I don't think that you can rank one above the other.

Tinker

I love my kids and I am so glad that I had them, when I was a teenager.. marriage and kids were never part of my fantasy adult life.. I have no regrets!!!!!!

__________________
"The man who alters his way of thinking to suit others is a fool."
Marquis de SADE

analog

If I don't want kids, I'm not looking for any "glory" in it. I'm not looking to feel anything for kids. I, as a point of fact, hate children. I take every opportunity to make my opinion known, as I feel that there are many who feel as I do, but are pressured and persecuted by others for their anti-children feelings.

So many have this bullshit pomposity and arrogance to tell me i "just don't know". Of-fucking-course I don't know... I don't WANT to know, my opinion is that "knowing" is EXACTLY what I do not want. Morons.

THERE IS NO "GLORY". HAVING A CHILD DOES NOT MAKE YOU SPECIAL.

Usually I tell people it's none of their damn business when they ask why I don't want children. I'm a nice person, but there are many things which will easily incur a short temper from me. It's amazing how people will belittle you for not wanting children, but get offended when you go off on them about how they're not special just because they've reproduced. That- more than anything else- is a testament to the snobby attitude they have towards being a parent. Like they're in an elite club.

I'm not sorry that i've chosen to have sex for fun for the rest of my life, whenever the urge strikes me or my girl. I'm not sorry I want to keep the money I earn at my job, and spend it on the woman I love. I'm not sorry I hate children, I'm not sorry for telling you I hate children, and I'm not sorry that your self-absorption makes you easily offended about your little bastards.

PM me if you have issue.

- analog.

william

It's not a question of "why" to have a child. It's more a question of "when". I hate to sound like like a 6th grade teacher, but you should answer this question first (unless you choose to live like a hermit).
It is not necessary to have a child and be successful in life. Your children are not the carry-ons of your life. You succeed or you don't. They succeed or they don't.

:::OshnSoul:::

analog,
I'm sorry if I was trying to change your mind- but I wasn't. You asked why, so I explained, in a parent's opinion. You have every right to feel the way you do. Some people are meant not to have kids- but just in case it does happen to you, try not to walk into it with a negative attitude.
P.S. You could always get a vasectomy.....I do like what william above said, though.

Willravel

You have taken this opportunity to make your opinnion known. I'm not sure how people feel about being called morons, but if you don't want people to keep telling you that you don't know because yoy never had kids, maybe you should stop taking every opportunity to preach about how much you hate kids.
I totally respect yourt decision, and looking at it from a certian perspective, it is quite nobel. People like you are helping to slow the terrible case of overpopulation that irresponsible people have done nothing to stop. I'm glad that you have chosen what makes you comfortable and you don't need to apologize for anything.
As for glory in childbearing and parenting: I think 'glory' is a bit much for parents. I will respect people for being good parents, but glory means something different. I think that people who are parents are more likely to know more about having kids then those who don't. I think most of the people who tell you you should have kids are wanting you to share in their joy. If people are parental eleitests, then that's bad.

analog

Very well said, willravel. The problem is that they preach first (and often, and at great length, and without regard to my personal opinion, as though theirs is the only one that matters)- and I have heard it time and time again over the course of my still relatively young life- and at some point I had to learn to start preaching back. I can only be hammered for so long before I strike back, no matter how patient a person I am.

DJ Happy

Why do you hate children? I could understand it if you said you don't like children (I don't like children apart from my own - sounds odd, but that's the way I am) but I can't imagine ever hating them.

I know a few people who don't want to have kids either, but I don't recall any of them being persecuted for this view. What have you encountered in this regard?

skills1

Children are worth it, they give you a lot of joy in your life and it makes you feel great. But it only applies to a certain amount of people so don't apply this 100% to yourself.

gondath

People have children because they are biologically predisposed to do so. I won't ever be having children because I feel nothing for them. I dislike them at times but mostly I have no emotion at all towards them. For the same reason, I will not have children because I would be a bad parent. Most people have too much ego to even admit they would be bad parents, or care depending on how you perceive it. I've seen plenty of people do a poor job parenting, and I would not force my habits upon children of my own.

Analog cracked me up with his stance against children. That post reminded me so much of my own sister that it's scary. She takes a very anti-children position, too.

vanblah

Humans have children because they like to have sex.
Humans have children because of a biological urge to do so.
Humans have children because they feel lonely and think that a child will help fill the emptiness.
Humans have children because they think that it will keep a relationship together.
Humans have children because they want to feel a sense of accomplishment.

I could go on, but you get the point.

The question "why SHOULD we have children" is a little more complex. It's true the world is a big, ole scary place and all; but that should not prevent people from trying to fix it. We as adults aren't going to fix it ... the only way we can do that is by educating our children.

To those people who "hate" children. I would have to say that it's a good thing you aren't having children then. It's as simple as that. <b>I respect that.</b>

The question I have now is "Why do you hate children?" Is it because they are messy, loud, obnoxious? Is it because they will require you to sacrifice some of your game time?

I'm only asking out of curiosity. Not trying to change anyone's mind.

I had always been fairly indifferent to children. When I would walk past a playground full of screaming kids the first thing I would think was, "I feel sorry for the people who live next door to this playground."

Now that I have a child, my perspective has shifted. I realize that kids aren't so bad after all. I didn't have to give up any part of myself at all. Except the part that was indifferent. No challenge there really. In fact, my daughter has inspired more creativity in me than anything else.

Of course, that's just <i>my</i> story. If any moral can be read into it, it's just simply that you should always question your own beliefs and be open to a shift in your perspective.