H12

I've got a grudge that has cost me quite afew things lately, and I feel like it's well-placed. However, the opinions of my friends are mixed, and it seems to be costing me alot lately. So, here's my situation...

For about a year around two years ago, I was best friends with Jon. We had always been cool with each other, joke around, and whatnot, right. He graduated high school and went to a near-by college, but was too far away to live there and see his long-term girlfriend (Ashley) much...so I offered to let him half-way live with me; he moved in his drumset and stayed the night plenty of nights. That year's November, though, was when she broke up with him. He went suicidal, and mostly relied on me to be with him in person and be on the phone with him every chance I could to try to talk him out of it. This lasted for afew months...

...Meanwhile, I liked Monika, a girl who had just moved into town. Back then I was a really shy guy, but me and her had gotten fairly close. I told Jon, and he swore to God that he would help me get with her, no matter what (those were his words). Jon would talk to her on Messenger and get her to get out with us so Jon could help her get with me. The three of us hung out all that weekend, pretty much, and we had a good time. Monika and I never got together, or even kissed, but we had fun.

Afew weeks later, I was riding around with Monika, and she informed me of something I was left in the dark about: Jon and her had made out afew times just days after that weekend. I was never mad at her, but I was shocked...so I talked to Jon later than night and asked if him and her had anything going on, and at first he denied everything. I told him I heard straight from her, where he replied "Well, I didn't think kissing counted". I found out later Monika didn't like me like that, but it was insulting for Jon to go about this the way he did. To this day, he never apologized for it.

Angered, I let it go because I was a passive pussy who tries to avoid conflicts. I figured it was his first mistake, so I could just let it slide. Later on, I had heard two different rumors about Ashley and her new boyfriend. Treating Jon like the friend he was, I filled him in, but under two conditions: to not talk to Ashley about it for afew days because she'd know I told him, and not to tell anyone I filled him in (I also told him over and over again they were just rumors). He agreed calmly, then would call Ashley 30 minutes later crying out exactly what I told him, then tellin' her I told him. She would then tell her boyfriend, and he would try to start shit with me. I understand that I probably shouldn't have told him, but I felt like friends inform friends at the time, so I told him...and because of that, that really hurt my image for awhile. Jon did apologize for all that, but it wasn't that big of a deal to me at the time; I hated what went down, but I didn't blame him for what he did...so just a bitter taste in my mouth, but not much harm was done.

Fast-forward about two months forward. Jon had just started to like a girl named Wendy. I offered to take Wendy to a ballgame because she had no ride, and we had alot of fun. We never kissed or nothin', but I decided I liked her too. I didn't want to make the same mistake Jon made though about Monika, so I told Jon later that night that I liked Wendy, too. He said "Well, I hope you get with her then", leading me to believe he was goin' to back off, right...wrong. The next night, he takes her to a ballgame, and Wendy tells me he was all over her. I wasn't so mad at the fact that he was going for the girl that I liked as I was at the fact that I could no longer trust him.

It was then that I decided I don't want to keep a friend who's going to trade my trust for a shot at about any woman. I had done so much for him, even so much as giving months worth of my time to keep him alive, yet I couldn't keep myself from feeling betrayed by him one too many times. I had also realized that his personality is not much more than a bag full of one-liners, so I feel like he's gonna make the same joke over and over again, thus being a boring person to hang around anymore. He moved to Chattanooga last June, so that made it alot easier to just forget about him and not put up with his crap anymore.


I can get into the ways he's cost me since then because of my grudge, but until it's requested, I'm not gonna mention it so the topic can just focus on whether I should hate him or not. So...should I hate him, or am I just being far too angry about this?

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit."
--Aristotle

1337haxor

Don't be too mad at him. Just forget about him. He has issues and trying to help him is only causing problems for you aswell. I don't want to sound mean or cruel, but if helping him hurts you: its better to let one person suffer then to let two suffer.

One thing I've learned is to not put a possible relationships into the hands of a friend, including a guy or gal best friend. The friend can push you in the write direction, but never let him/her do it for you. From my experience, things always get screwed up this way.

-Robert

guthmund

For the first couple of paragraphs there I thought I was in the middle of a flashback.....

I had a roommate that decided to step in (regardless of what I actually said) with a woman I was interested in. During the course of their discussions they managed to make out quite heavily, in fact.

It always seemed I was in competition with this guy even when I wasn't. I ended up moving out not too long after that. I kept replaying it over and over; I just couldn't manage to move on.

One day about 3 months after I stopped talking to this schmuck. I ran into him out in public at a friend's house.

I hit him as hard as I could.

I know it wasn't the right thing to do, but it felt so good and I haven't really agonized over it since.

This guy you speak of as already decided that ass, in any form, is much more important than you. Get out, get away and if that doesn't work.....well....see above.

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hannukah harry

okay... for the thing with teh girl you liked and then he made out with, you have every reason to be pissed, hes' your buddy, he knew your feelings, hell, he tried to fix you up and yet he still made out with her. you have to call bullshit on the "i didn't think making out counted."

but, you let it go, you seem to have forgiven even though he never apologized.

with wendy, though, he liked her first. the fact that you started to like her, based on general guy rules, means that he has first dibs, and you should abide by that. his saying "i hope you get her" is pretty ambiguous. he didn't say he was giving up on her. it may have been a invitation for compitition, i don't know. had you been with a girl in a while? maybe he meant, i'm still going for her, but i've gotten some more recently, i hope you win.

/my $0.02, probably worth less.

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Kaos

You have a right to be pissed, but man, the guy has moved away and you can keep him out of your life.

Forget about getting any apology. Even if you did get him to apologize, it wouldn't mean anything since Jon doesn't seem to think he did anything wrong.

Just count this as a learning experience, and move on with your life or you will find it affecting future relationships.

H12

Thanks for the help so far guys. However, now that afew posts have come in, I'm going to explain how he's cost me since then (albeit indirectly)...

That changed this past December. I was best friends with a girl (Leigh) for about the past year or two, and she had been in a serious relationship with a cop named JB. They got engaged in September, then broke up a week later and never could get it fixed again. Meanwhile, Jon had admitted to Leigh that he ~loved~ her, even though he hadn't hardly seen her or talked to her in months. They got to talking, and Leigh knew how I felt about Jon. I told her that I don't like the guy and I'd be afraid it'd hurt or even destroy our friendship, but I'd wish her all the happiness with him I could if she did get him. Leigh was convinced it'd all work out.

In late December, they're officially together, and he moves in with her.

Leigh now blames me for our friendship going to hell because I don't want to be around him, while I tell her that I still want to be friends with her but not him (it worked with JB, and I thought JB was a cool guy, too). It's also hard to do much about it when she sides with Jon in everything I mentioned ("you don't understand what it's like to break up in a serious relationship"). My only wish is that we could hang out some without me having to be around Jon because she's known how badly I dislike him ever since I started to dislike him. Her response last month was that they "were already at the point of only having couple-friends", so I'm either friends with both of them or neither of them...and they were only together for two months then, while her and JB were together for just short of two years yet we were as close as anybody can be.

It's a damn shame that to keep my best friend, I'd have to throw my standards out of the window and consistantly put up with people who's done me wrong. That's why I wonder if it's worth holding this grudge...but it's really too late now, because Leigh and I are nothing like we once were, and it's hard to imagine us getting back to that point, especially while she's still with Jon. Plus, to beat all, her and Jon are goin' to move to Chattanooga when she graduates from high school this year, so our friendship time would be very little before colleges pull us apart anyways.

That's really why I made this post, to see if people blame me for being mad at him. I don't want to have lost my best friend because of something irrational on my part.

__________________
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit."
--Aristotle

2kids1headache

The guy hardly sounds like a friend. Neither does the girl, if she's not willing to at least TRY to hang out with you. Fuck, I've been married when all of her friends wanted to hurt me, and they and I -still- made the effort to be civil and hang out with each other, for her sake. That's the way friendship works, y'see.

Fuck this guy and this chick. Just let `em go.

SiN

Just let it go. Him and the grudge.

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skysooner

Someone like that isn't worth your time at this point in your life. People can change, but he has some issues apparently.

JimmyTheHutt

I can definitely relate. Only on a much greater scale.

My best friend (supposedly) of the last 22 years has continuously blocked me on just about every opportunity that wandered my way. Any woman I even vaguely expressed an interest in became an immediate target for him. I have let it slide for years due to the fact that whenever the chips are down, he is always there. The only exception to this seems to be women.

However, given your situation, I would bail on the freak. Not even out of spite, but simply because its just not worth your stress and aggrivation to be associated with someone who is going to abuse your trust as badly as this guy apparently has. Seperate physically and the rest will fall into place.

Veritas en Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

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Journeyman

I can only really tell you how I'd personally feel about the guy if I were you: Fuck him in the neck.

lurkette

Don't mean to blame the victim here, but you sound like a bit of a sucker for the drama of it all. Yeah he's self-interested and shows poor judgment when it comes to how he treats his friends, but you kept keeping him around! At what point did you think his behavior would magically *poof* change? And the stuff with "dutifully" telling him the rumors about his ex and her new boyfriend...please. Drama drama drama. I'd say a grudge is not terribly useful - just be glad you're rid of him, and take a look at what made you keep him around for so long in the first place.

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"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

Cynthetiq

boil it down to two words.

move on.

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Slims

I don't think you should be angry.

The first incident would have pissed me off, but I would have gotten over it.

The second incident, well, he didn't do anything wrong. Seems to me he didn't surreptitiously try to steal her away from you (you didn't have her), and you knew he liked her ahead of time. I don't think he was backing down, and I don't think he was trying to mislead you or be ambiguous, he was simply giving you premission to try to win her over. But you still needed to win her over....

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Astrocloud

I think that you can salvage your friendship with Jon but you should just adapt to him being the way he is. Sometimes people are better in small doses -meaning that you should remain friends with him but not hang out with him as much.

Lebell

Why in the world would you want to be friends with someone who betrays your trust?

And why would another "friend" make you in order to be friends with her?

Move on and drop the drama (thanks Lurkette).

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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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Karm

Choosing a piece of ass over anything else is the definition of immature. Sex and women consume this individual. Let him go wallow in the mud. At some point down the road he will grow beyond that and will actually have a place for a friend like you. Learn from his mistakes. Become a man first. The women worth attracting will come your way.
As the Trump man says" Do not give loyalty a second chance. if they do it once. They will do it again."

Astrocloud

When you REACT to someone you are letting them control the situation. I don't want to necessarily throw a bunch of Taoist philosophy at the board -but if you simply absorb the way Jon is and don't react to it -I believe you will remain happier. Keep Jon as an aquaintance and pretty soon he will piss others off. If you have Jon at an arms length you can establish good friendships with those he pisses off AND still keep Jon in your network.


I know from my own personal experience that reacting to a situation just leads to pointless confrontation. If Jon is truly worthless then simply don't trust the guy and move forward from that point.

Seer666

Walk. He can't be trusted, and untill the female involved finds that out the hard way, neither can she. Tell her point blank that you would love to spend some time hanging out with her, but you will not be around him. I've had a couple friends that were going out with people that I didn't like. Well, wanted to murder in very slow painful ways, really. Point is, though, if she knows your veiws on him, she will respect them and make a little time to hang out with you without him around.

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qtpye4u84

once you lose a friend like that its hard to get them back. I had a best friend and one year she said she wanted new friends so i stopped haning out with her(bad idea) and then because of that she never hung out with me either so now I wish i would not of done that I love her and like her but I know I am never going to see her or even talk to her again its been a year now.
So if you never want to see him again and thats fine with you then go ahead, To me it kinda hurts. Once you lose something like that you cant get it back I dont know if that it true but to me it is.
A way to make him not want the girls you like is dont talk to him about the girls until she is your girl friend(then he might try to talk them into dumping you and if so I guess you should not be his friend) that is what I had to do with one of my firend cause she wanted the guys that only other ppl liked cause she though that they were hotter cause other ppl like them it is weird but some ppl find ppl that are liked by others more desireable.
to me real friends would not date there best friends ex girl friend.

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Rodney

This is one of those guys who takes and doesn't give. When he was down in the dumps you helped him because you felt sympathy, and of course everybody needs help sometimes; but when he pulled out of it, he kept taking from you without giving back. The only thing to do is move on.

Easier said than done. it's easy to remember past wrongs from some guy and feel the anger fresh and hot all over again. I've got something like that going now, although in an entirely different situation. But that kind of memory/anger response is almost a habit. If you just try to move on mentally and not dwell on him, it'll begin to fade over time.

Without thumping a bible here -- good thing, too, because I'm agnostic -- it's worth listening to what the bible says about forgiveness. Forgiveness isn't for the benefit of the other guy -- it's for _you,_ so you can get this guy out of your mind and move on. Because as long as you keep the grudge and stay mad at him, he's still running your life. Only when you let go of the anger toward him and move on do you get your life back. Not that you should ever trust him again, of course, or let him back into your life (and he sounds like the kind of guy who'd try, if he really needed something out of you).

H12

I've told her multiple times since when her and Jon first started talking, but she feels like I don't want to hang out with her...and that'd be a lie. I've had a hard time convincing her otherwise, because she's still been convinced of that "couples-friend" idea...so, ya know, I've almost lost faith in it all now, since she's still gonna move away to Chattanooga with him almost as soon as she graduates.



Oh, and thanks for all the responses so far; it's helpin' me get new perspectives about this, although I still feel the same about it.

__________________
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit."
--Aristotle

thespian86

Growning up my ex best friend stole everyone of my girlfriends but it was honestly bad luck on my part and I was never angry becasue i was happy when they ended. But my girlfriend whom i had been dating since highschool broke up with me a few months ago and just a couple of weeks ago I found out she was dating my EX EX EX EX EX EX EX best buddy from highschool. I went to his house and freaked out. I am not a violent person but when my Ex love of my life told me it was all for the better and my ex best friend winked at her I acted in a violent manner. I threw my ex best bud against the wall and punched him and walked out. I am yet to speak to him. My ex girlfriend calls me all the time because they broke up and she wants support. Not here Angel.

I do regret what I did and it was very immature of me but there's nothing I can do about it. Let it go man, Jonny boy isn't going to say sorry and she's not going to come back if he's corrupted her. Sory about the loss pal.

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Destrox

Drop Him, Move on.

There are a lot of people in this world, dont let him slow you down.

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