Was it my fight? Moral crisis...

[Rlyss]

Hi everyone...

My girlfriend is almost 20 and lives with her parents, even though she earns all her own money.

Tonight her dad came to my house to pick her up and take her home. He was supposed to come home at midnight, like they said, and they're very protective and stereotypical Asian parents. Anyway, he came at 8pm to pick her up and straight away her father started yelling at her in the car, calling her a bad daughter, asking why she went out and wasn't studying, why I couldn't drive her home, saying they do so much for her and she's unappreciative, etc.

This is too much for her and she gets out of the car and comes back to my house and she comes in, but her dad starts storming after her and shouts at her and yells at her and she's bawling her poor head off, and she's so scared. She finally goes back into the car with him and they go home.

I didn't do anything. Similar to the thread about seeing someone almost get raped, I guess I just stood there and thought "Should I do anything?"

He was yelling at her on my property, in my doorway, but he didn't yell at me, or lay a hand on either of us, and she did go back to the car.

Should I have stepped in? She's almost 20, and is an adult, but she was out of her league and she was obviously scared out of her mind. The whole time I wanted to desperately to help her, tell her dad to leave my house right now, but I wasn't sure if it was my fight, or my business. If he had grabbed her or anything like that I know I would have stepped in, but at the time my brain just kept saying "No, not yet, not your business, it's between her and her parents", so I did nothing, and I'm feeling really ashamed about it.

I've called her and said I can pick her up from her house right now and take her back here, and her dad isn't allowed on my property anymore, but she said no, it wouldn't help at all.

I'm not sure what to do

[GoldenOuroboros]

Yes this is one of those complicated situations.. Personally I would have asked the father to quiet it down and stop yelling otherwise he'd have to go.. The best thing to do right now is to give her lots of support and lots of hugs..

Best luck to ya..

[lurkette]

Sounds like she has some serious issues with her parents and as much as you'd like to help, they're her issues to sort out. If you stepped in you'd be just another daddy figure protecting her or telling her what to do. It's one thing to step in if it's getting violent, which it doesn't sound like it was, exactly. But it sounds like what's needed here is for you to say to her that it's clear that she has issues with her parents and you're there to support her however she deals with them. She sounds like she needs to develop what's called "a backbone" and either accept the rules that come with living with her parents, or move out and be independent.

[Rlyss]

Thanks for the replies GoldenOuroboros and lurkette. I've been thinking about it for the past few hours and I think you're right, it was best that I didn't get involved. If he had been violent (which I think is extremely unlikely) then it would have been a different matter altogether, but you're right, it was, and is, an issue between her and her parents.

She isn't exactly the most strong-willed person, and she's been raised to just accept whatever she is told. She's been protected her whole life, due to these overbearing and overprotective parents, and even though she's 20 she can't bring herself to put up any fight, even though I think everyone would agree that they're being unreasonable.

Thanks again for the replies, I'm feeling much better now

[skysooner]

I totally agree with what was written above. Getting between parents and children unless you are the fiancee/husband is very difficult. This is just part of the process of growing up that we all go through.

[Cynthetiq]

you're not her parents. you stepping in will only exacerbate the issue.

leave it alone and be supportive. if she's asian thru and thru, it will be difficult for her to break the cycle, but give her all the love and support that you can.

[Jim Kata]

Why weren't you just taking her home in the first place?

[lurkette]

Forks, I'm not sure going to her dad is the right idea - this girl clearly needs to grow a backbone, and going to bat against her dad on her behalf is only going to reinforce her complete lack of spinal fortitude. It might solve the immediate manifestation of the problem - screaming father - but isn't going to solve the underlying issue - girl lets parents (and presumably everyone else) walk all over her. She needs some practice thinking about how she wants her life to be and then taking actions to make it turn out that way, and relying on the boyfriend to fight her battles for her is only going to make things worse.

[homerhop]

I was talking about my partners father to a friend one day and he gave me the best advice on things like this ever.
"Homer, you might not always be her boyfriend but he will always be her father"

[Rlyss]

Jim Kata - I didn't drive her home that night because I couldn't. I also live with my family and we only have one car and it was being used that night. Our original plans were to stay out longer and I would drive her home later that night, sometime after midnight (it was our six month anniversary that day).

Her family has three cars but she's not allowed to drive any of them, she isn't allowed to take public transport after dark. My family only has one car and I refill my car with petrol every single week driving her around, picking her up, taking her home, etc.

We both decided that that night, since her parents bailed on us and changed our plans at the very last minute, they could come and pick her up. If they wanted her home before midnight they can come and pick her up themselves, since they changed our plans and ruined our night, and I had no car then anyway.

That's why I couldn't drive her home, and even if I did have a car, I wanted them to do it, to experience for one night the effort I go to so as not to inconvenience them, and he couldn't even stand picking up his own daughter once.

I have always been incredibly polite when I'm a guest at their house, I've never agreed with the way they have raised their children, but the family has never been my business before. But now that the father has come to my house and shouted at her he is not welcome here again.

The next time I pick her up to go out, I am going to tell her father that I am not going to her house anymore, when I pick her up I won't go to the door anymore. I don't want her father on my property, so it's only reasonable that I don't enter their property.

Idon't want anything to do with him. I want him to know that I've had enough of his shit, and that what he does is unreasonable, and he's going to lose his daughter as soon as she has money to move out.

[guthmund]

It seems like you've got this all wrapped up, but I'll throw in anyway....

She does seem to have issues with her parents, which she'll have to figure out (hey, don't we all???), but she should feel safe around you as well.

While it's important to maintain a "polite" relationship with her father I wouldn't go out of the way to piss him off. Telling him that you're not coming to the door and waving his little girl in his face is only going to make things rough and force the girlfriend to choose between you. And in the few relationships that I've had with women who have father issues, they always choose daddy.

That being said, I am polite and respectful when they are polite and respectful and ranting and raving isn't polite and respectful at all. And I would encourage you to explain that to him next time he does it. It seems like this guy has been running roughshod for a long time and doesn't seem to realize that there are bigger dogs in the yard.

Good luck in your endeavor.

[Rlyss]

Thanks for the reply guthmund. She does indeed have a few issues with both her parents. They are strict Asian parents, the kids have grown up in Western society, so there's a huge conflict there. From what I've experienced, and what I've been told about her family, it appears that it's every person for themselves in that household - nobody looks out for each other and there's a lot of hatred and distrust between all the members. She also told me that when she was younger she was caned for misbehaving - not just spanked or scolded, but caned, with an actual cane, and that scared me and angered me so much to hear it.

I think I'm only just beginning to realize that the family life she knows is just so incredibly different to the family life I know, that it's impossible for me to fully understand it. I'm trying, of course, and I'm trying to accept it.

I probably got a bit worked up when I said I'd tell the father how I feel. It's not really my place to do that. I still don't want to go to their family's house any more, I know I won't feel welcome (even though I merely felt 'tolerated' before), and I don't want her father here either, but if our paths happen to cross I'll just be as polite as is necessary and not give him the impression that I agree with his parenting.

I'm also trying to get my partner to see me less as a punching bag, or someone she can take her anger and frustration out on, and more of someone who will listen and help, but from what I can see she's never really had that, so I'm trying my hardest to be there for her.

[lafemmefatale]

Originally posted by Dorito2
I don't want anything to do with him. I want him to know that I've had enough of his shit, and that what he does is unreasonable, and he's going to lose his daughter as soon as she has money to move out.

I've put up with a LOT with my parents...well my mom, my dad's patient one actually, and I've been yelled at plenty, much like you described for your girlfriend. At it's worst, I didn't have an understanding SO like your girlfriend does [you]. Believe me it's scary to face these sorts of situations with asian parents and sometimes/most times it's got nothing to do with backbone.

BUT. maybe you're girlfriend actually does want to move out etc. i dunno, but despite how things went with me, i still love my parents. no really. and i couldn't bring myself to move out based on being yelled at before. Currently my relationship with my mom is much smoother, but it's been hard work working it out. For me, no matter how unreasonable my mom was or even if she is still, *I* wouldn't want to be 'lost' to my parents, because after all, they're still my parents.

Moving out doesn't seem like the right thing to do so much as being able to get her parents to understand her and possibly her to understand her parents.

[guthmund]

Originally posted by Dorito2
Thanks for the reply guthmund. They are strict Asian parents, the kids have grown up in Western society, so there's a huge conflict there. From what I've experienced, and what I've been told about her family, it appears that it's every person for themselves in that household - nobody looks out for each other and there's a lot of hatred and distrust between all the members. She also told me that when she was younger she was caned for misbehaving - not just spanked or scolded, but caned, with an actual cane, and that scared me and angered me so much to hear it.

No problem, I mean if you can't turn to anonymous strangers on the Internet, who can you turn to?

Not to make light... That certainly is no way to grow up, and I can't even imagine growing up in a house like that so I have very little advice to give.

I'm also trying to get my partner to see me less as a punching bag, or someone she can take her anger and frustration out on, and more of someone who will listen and help, but from what I can see she's never really had that, so I'm trying my hardest to be there for her.

I lied. That would be my only advice. You have to help her change her perspective. She's been under fire for a long time and old habits and instincts aren't that easy to change. You have to be both a guide and a support in changing her perception of how relationships should work.

I'm all tapped out, but good luck and I hope it works out for you.

[wry1]

Here's something that nobody has really addressed to this point....

Yelling, intimidation and threats of any kind are all forms of psychological abuse. Yes, abuse. It sounds as if your girlfriend has been both physically and psychologically abused in the past. Granted, this is something prevalent in many strata of Asian society - by no means all parts therein - but that does not in any way justify anyone placing someone else (especially their own child) in such a situation! And it sounds like this has been happening for pretty much all of her 20 years.....

The mental and emotional scars from such abuse can last decades - even a lifetime. It sounds as if your girlfriend is at least venting her frustrations around you; now you need to work with her to include you both in each other's lives to such a degree that your being there for her is something which she acknowledges unquestioningly and without hesitation. Support and understanding to that degree is some of the best medicine a person in this situation can have.

And if "Daddy Dearest" has another tantrum at your house, invite him inside to discuss any issues he may have; as you are undoubtedly a part of any "problems" he may be yelling about, you may be in a position to help resolve them. If he refuses, ask him to conduct himself properly, as he would at another's house. That should have the effect of drawing attention to his improper behavior, while allowing him to save some face in the situation.

Eventually, it will be up to your girlfriend to break the cycle of abuse which is occurring. If she does not, then it is quite likely to be passed on to her own children; remember: children who are abused are far more likely to become abusers themselves.

Good luck with this situation. As for me, I just don't have that much tolerance as a general rule....idiots and assholes always manage to tweak that "last nerve" and I wind up verbally ripping them a new one with scathing sarcasm and vicious wit.

But hopefully you're a better man than I am.....I'm pretty sure you are, at that!

[dailyjo2003]

If she doesn't like his rules - she should rent her own place and pay for all of her own stuff. Othewise, too bad.

[Rlyss]

dailyjo2003 - While I do agree that for the most part, at age 20, if you don't like it, you can leave, I think that everyone is still entitled to a comfortable and fair home environment.

She does work and study too, and is saving up so that she can move out. She has offered to pay rent but strangely enough her parents refuse to take it, saying that children shouldn't have to pay rent in their own home. Yet they still complain about food and water and electricity! It's absurd, it really is. They've told her that if she moves out then she shouldn't ever come back to them, she's on her own. This is so totally against my view on parenting, it staggers me.

It's this hypocricy and total and utter lack of respect or pride for their son and daughter that really gets to me. They complain about the cost of food and electricity, yet they refuse to accept her offers to pay rent. They refuse to let her act like an adult and drive, yet they refused to let her live her teenage years by going out and having fun.

Tahnks wry1 for your understanding, your advice is great. I haven't had an encounter with either of the parents yet, since that night, and it doesn't look like I will unless they initiate it. They haven't come to my house yet, and every time I've picker her up or dropped her home I've not entered their property.

[lurkette]

Originally posted by Dorito2
dailyjo2003 - While I do agree that for the most part, at age 20, if you don't like it, you can leave, I think that everyone is still entitled to a comfortable and fair home environment.

Fair enough, but "entitled" does not mean expecting people to change to suit your tastes. If you want a comfortable and fair home environment and are not getting it with your parents, you're entitled to be an adult and go make your own home environment.

[Rlyss]

I think maybe you're right there lurkette. I think I'm finding it hard to reach any sort of middle ground here, and it's all leading me to the realization recently that I'm sticking my nose too far into this.

The most I should be doing here is lending an ear and a helping hand when she asks for it, and nothing more.

This is all a matter between my girlfriend and her family, and I only have any rights when it's a matter between my girlfriend and me.

My original intent with this thread was to work out whether I should have butted in when her father yelled at her, and thanks to everyone here I've got my answer. The rest of the stuff I've brought into this thread isn't really my business at all.

Thanks again to everyone I feel much more assured in all of this now

[Kyo]

Asian parenting is considered harsh in the west, but it is the standard for us - not only normal but necessary. Being caned as a child, for things as seemingly trivial as refusing (or simply being unable to) memorize multiplication tables, is commonplace for myself and my friends. Being caned, and then being caned more for crying - caned until we stopped crying (oxymoronic, isn't it?) These are not isolated cases, this is standard practice.

Children are taught from very early on to respect authority - primarily the male head of household. Children that have been brought up through true Asian parenting are easy to recognize - they will rarely speak out of turn, they are well behaved, and do not whine or cry - taking a 6-year old to a restaurant is simple, because they are so still and quiet they might as well not exist. The reason is simple - any deviation from good behavior results in a round of painful caning once they are at home.

Studying hard and obeying your parents are what we are conditioned to do - if harsh words won't do it, then beating will. Unless your parents think you deserve fun, going out and having fun is not part of the program. 'Living your teenage years' (a concept I don't believe in or have any respect for) is not part of the program. For the first 18 years of your life, anything that is not expressly approved by the parental units is not part of the damn program.

This is the way it has been done since before the US even existed. Whether it angers you or not, seems right to you or not, this is the reality of our childhood.

And regardless of what you or the rest of western society believes, a truly Asian child is never truly free of his/her parents. Being ordered around and scolded at age 20 is not uncommon or strange. Be careful that you do not attempt to apply your own beliefs and ego to their lifestyle too readily. This is a case where "you cannot see my daughter again" almost definitely means just that.