Zeraph

Surprised this hasn't been brought up (that I recall). I'm pretty happy with my body but I wouldn't mind being lighter on my feet so I can run for long periods of time again (altho the weight has its advantages in martial arts...)

I'm stuck at my weight, 220 6'2". Not too bad at all or anything, I've even had some women say I look better with the extra weight. But I've eaten only 2 medium meals a day for 2 weeks straight (good food too) and exercised and it hasn't gone down a single pound. In fact, I I've put on a pound or two (I think of muscle) weight.

Everything I've heard about diet pills are bad. Bad for the heart, etc. Anyone know a lot about them? This is as much about curiosity as anything (most guess my weight at ~180, even doctors).

The_Jazz

Well, it depends on what pills you mean exactly. Ephedrine is off the market because it causes heart problems in a very small number of folks who may already be predisposed to heart problems.

And every afterschool special I ever saw on the subject shows that they're EVIL.

But it kind of depends on what it is you want to take. Just because the bottle says you'll lose weight doesn't make it so, which is the case with a lot of the crap on the market today.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

jewels

Diet pills are a crock, unless you're 25 and wanting to lose 5 lbs. to please a scale. Less food does not equal lost fat.

Exercise to increase muscle mass, eat 4 - 6 small and balanced meals per day, drink a good amount of water.

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levite

I had a horrible run with diet pills in high school, lo these many years ago. I dunno if they've come up with anything better in the intervening decades, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

In my experience, diet pills range from "do nothing but you're wired 24/7" to "do nothing and poop constantly" to "just do nothing."

I am actually in the middle of trying to lose some weight prior to getting surgery, and what seems to help so far is cutting carbs from here to hell and back, adding more protein, way more fresh veggies, and drinking more water than you would ever believe possible. Haven't lost a lot, but I am losing something, and for me, that is a minor miracle.

__________________
Dull sublunary lovers love,
Whose soul is sense, cannot admit
Absence, because it doth remove
That thing which elemented it.

(From "A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning" by John Donne)

The_Jazz

There are actually diet pills that work. Not all of them are a "crock". That said, most of the over the counter ones are. None of the prescription ones are.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

jewels

As far as the pills themselves causing you to lose weight/fat? If you're talking about speed, you may lose appetite but prescription amphetamines don't cause weight loss on their own. And I know you're not talking about those fat blockers.

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We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
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Willravel

Congratulations! Dieting and exercising can be seriously difficult.
Diet pills as a rule aren't bad, but you really should talk to your doctor before starting any kind of diet pill.

One thing that should be said is diet pills aren't necessary in the vast majority of fat-burning cases. If you have a healthy diet and good exercise program, you can get yourself into great shape without having to worry about pills.

What kinds of exercises are you doing?

The_Jazz

Well, appetite suppressants will cause you to lose weight on their own. And fat blockers essentially work the same way by blocking dietary fat from being absorbed. It is possible to change nothing more than adding the pills and see someone lose weight. It's not likely, but it's possible.

But I doubt that I could give you any answer that you'd like since you seem bound and determined to split hairs. .

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

snowy

Most legitimate diet pills--be they prescription or OTC orlistat (Alli) are only recommended for people who need to lose serious amounts of weight--i.e., it's meant to help people who are in the obese range of BMI. It's not for people looking to lose a few pounds. From what I understand, the side effects from fat-blocking medications such as Alli are undesirable unless you're looking to drop 40+ lbs.

From my personal experience, dropping 2 lbs. a week using just diet and exercise is completely feasible, and well worth the effort.

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Plan9

What weight you trying to get to with said magical pill? What's the goal here?

...

...every guy on TFP that isn't a hipster dweeb outweighs me by like fifty pounds.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

jewels

Ouch. Didn't think I deserved that. I may have some strong feelings about consumerism and the fact that it has people scampering for magic quick solutions, but I didn't realize that dissent was hair splitting.

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The_Jazz

Jewels, apparently you're not reading what I'm posting. I'm drawing a pretty broad distinction between over the counter and prescription pills. Now if you're talking only about over the counter pills, look way back at post #5 where I conceeded that those are almost all worthless. Not all, but the overwhelming majority.

That said pharmaceutical (read: FDA approved) weight loss pills do work.

So I'm not really sure why you're arguing with me since every post of mine that you've quoted actually agrees with your opinion. The only explanation I can see is that you're trying to draw some fine distinction here.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

dlish

if i could squeeze in here guys ( Jazz and jewels)..

Jazz is right. There are pills on the market that do work. she-lish reccomends them sparingly to her patients during her consults, but the extremely large majority of her patients dont get them, even if they ask for them.

a lot of these pills get given to her from pharmaceutical companies, but she doesnt touch them with 10 foot pole.

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filtherton

Malaria works as a means of weight loss. I bet if it could be ethically administered, it would get FDA approval too.

There are a lot of ways to lose weight. Thermodynamically speaking, they are all equivalent. I am personally biased towards diet and exercise, mainly because they've worked for me in losing about 40 lbs. Also, a healthy diet and daily exercise are associated with reductions in risk for a whole host of acute and chronic diseases.

Zeraph

Situps (or crunches rather), push ups, and hitting the bag. Oh and occasionally lifting barbells.

jewels

According to the FDA? Really? Pharmaceutical diet pills are amphetamines. Speed. Drinking water will have the same effect with no damage or false expectations.

Argue? Disagree, discuss. I've only quoted portions of your posts that I'm addressing. I comprehend quite well what you're saying. I'm just not with your logic.

The fact that I called them a crock seemed to offend you. I'm merely making the same point that others have made above this post that some don't put have much faith in the FDA or any quick weight loss methods which can often, in fact, be quite harmful, prescribed or not.

Been there, done that, starred in the movie and dozens of sequels and remakes, along with thousands of others and millions of extras.

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
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The_Jazz

Jewels, double blind experiments say you're wrong. Fat blockers are effective in stopping the absorbtion of up to 30% of dietary fat. You're welcome to your opinion, but that's the science. Whatever difference in our logic, those drugs have a proven effective rate. As with any drug, individuals have different reactions than the statistical norm, so not everyone gets the same results. But that's true with every single drug on the market.

The other pharmceutical option is amphetimine-based. That works by speeding up metabolism. Again, it's effective but not miraculous.

So on one hand we have statistical studies with peer-reviewed results. On the other hand we have your anecdotal evidence. I don't have a dog in this hunt other than warning folks off of the OTC stuff since it can be dangerous, but I'm pragmatist enough to realize that consistentcy in drug development and manufacturing outweighs your opinion when forming my own. I'm pretty well versed in what it takes to get ANY drug to market in the US and that the FDA doesn't approve drugs that don't work, regardless of what the potential payouts are.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

jewels

I do agree on the fat blockers, based on what I've heard and read. However, as stated previously, there are some nasty side effects and definitely not a long-term solution to keeping weight off. And I didn't realize a prescription version was out. I have no problem conceding on that. My bad as I don't think of them as weight-loss pills. Showing my age, I guess.
Funny, I haven't seen much about them after the first year they were out.

Payouts, perhaps not. Cost (to be taken both ways) to consumers, regardless.

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
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Bretz

Hi,
I think 220lbs is a little bit more for you and you have no need to use diet pills ...
Just need to run or exercise a light type to burn a low number of calories...

Collierr

It depends on the quality of the dieting pills and user of pills...
We should should not claim that dieting pills are not good... if dieting pills are used under the supervision of a profession then i am sure that we will not face any problem...

Willravel

While it's good that you're doing something about getting into better shape, this seems a bit incomplete. If I may suggest, you may want to do something a bit more complete.

I've been doing a lot of super-sets recently, which are two exercises back to back which work the same muscle in different ways. I've seen significant strength gains (5%± weight increase every week). Here's an example of a superset exercise regimen:

bench press/stability ball push up
seated cable row/stability dumbbell row
lunges/step-up to balance
pullover
stability ball pullover
seated Zottman curl/single-leg dumbbell curl
standing dumbbell shoulder press/seated stability ball military press

What you do is a set (12-15 reps) of the first exercise, immediately followed by a set of the second exercise without any resting period, then a 30 second rest period, then repeat the two exercises back to back again. Take a 30-45 second rest, and then move on to the next pair of exercises and do the same. The initial exercise will work your main muscle, then the second exercise will help other muscles that help to stabilize work a bit harder so that you're working on better overall physical ability. Do this 3 times a week, with daily cardio (swimming, jogging, bicycling, walking the dog, etc.) and maybe a core routine on alternating days, and of course you eat a healthy diet mainly of plants and lean meat, and you'll likely start to notice changes in about 4 weeks.

Oh, for the core, you can start out with ab bridges (regular, side, back).

If you have any questions, let me know.

Edit: *slaps self on forehead* and, of course, the absolute best exercise is always going to be regular sex. It burns calories, it works the core, arms and legs, and it's incredibly cathartic. Find exercises that you love doing and you'll be less likely to skip them.

cadre

Don't bother with diet pills. You are not someone who needs them as others have said. And in my opinion most otc ones are not healthy. Prescriptions can help but at a price and they are never recommended for those trying to lose a few pound.

I can tell you what probably happened here, you cut your calories way back and increased your body's need for energy so your metabolism slowed down. This is a mistake a lot of people make. You can't just cut your calories in half and expect to lose weight. Most people recommend cutting by 20%, so go to google and find one of the many caloric needs calculators (or I'll post the equation if you want) and find out how many calories you need to maintain your weight. Reduce this by 20% to get your goal intake. A lot of people use a 40/40/20 ratio for macronutrients (40% protein and carbs, 20% mostly good fats) but this is not necessarily what the FDA recommends. I use 30% protein, 50% carbs and 20% fats. You do not need to eat excessive amount of protein to gain muscle and doing so can exasperate many health problems.

Next, find a program like FatSecret to help you track your calories. You don't have to do this forever but doing it for at least a week will give you a good idea of where you're at and what changes to make as far as your food goes. I do this for at least three days when I'm cutting and I've been studying this for a long time. Some people have no idea how much they actually eat and you'll see better results if you are more accurate to begin with.

Then yeah exercise, cardio will help burn more calories and weight training will help to maintain muscle. Keep in mind that muscle is much more dense than fat but it also burns more calories so it is great to build up lean mass.

Sorry for the essay! If you want any help with diet or exercise or anything related just shoot me a pm. This is what I'm studying up in Flagstaff.

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Lindy

This. Carbs are at least as important as calories. Carbs govern insulin levels, and insulin levels govern fat gain/loss. Keep doing what you're doing. Don't let the naysayers sidetrack you.

That's the way it usually works, isn't it? If your reduce energy input, the body will slow energy use to compensate. You can mitigate that effect through exercise, but during the other 22+ hours, your body will use energy (burn calories) at a lower rate than before. We should not assume that calories in and calories expended are independent variables. If you change one, the other will most likely also change, whether you want it to or not.
Mine for the last few months has been 42% protein, 12% carbs, 46% fat. I know, it sounds horrible! But I've followed the low carb eating style -not without slips, granted- for a little over five years. According to conventional wisdom, I should be dead or a pudgeball. Yet my cholesterol is 177, triglycerides 122, and I weighed 109 pounds this morning.

I am kind of a numbers nerd, so this comes naturally to me. I keep a food diary in a little 3x5 top spiral note pad that I carry in my purse. On most days, I write down everything that I eat and later transfer the data to an Excel spreadsheet that I set up. I track calories, and grams of fat, carbs, and protein. I use info from Nutrition facts, calories in food, labels, nutritional information and analysis – NutritionData.com and corporate sites like Applebees, McDonalds, etc. I tend to eat the same 2 or 3 dozen things most of the time, so tracking is easier than it sounds.

It takes about 6 calories per day to maintain a pound of muscle versus 2 calories to maintain a pound of fat. If you replace 5 pounds of fat with 5 pounds of muscle (your total weight remains the same) you will burn an additional 20 calories per day. It's not much, but over a years time that could be a couple of pounds lost.

Lindy

canuckguy

There are ton of people at my office who take pills or all these fancy designer "shakes" (not protein) to lose weight. No offense to anyone but there the same weak willed people who drink too much or do other things they shouldn't do. Not saying that anyone in this thread is like that but the 5 or so people I know who take Isagenics and other supplements are the same people who have addictive personality or are just lazy. Sorry just the reality of the people in my office.

I weighed 225lbs April 2, 2010 (I keep a journal) and on April 2, 2011 I weigh 175lbs now and I feel fantastic. I bust my arse working out and don't eat crap food. Pretty simple to be honest. I biked 6863km and ran 156km last year (journal) did countless push ups and just kept active going for walks with my wife and taking the stairs any chance I got.

Use a calorie counter and be honest with yourself. Get a Heart rate monitor to assist with your workouts so you know your hitting your burn zone. Get active and stay to the outside rows at the grocery store. I feel so freaking good, my health (never get sick) and mood have been just awesome.

Taking pills is not going to help in the long term in my uneducated opinion I hope they work for anyone who takes them but there not for me. You have to make a life style change and enjoy it or it will never last.

cadre

Good info but I would not suggest your macro ratio to anyone who doesn't know exactly what they're doing. And your numbers don't tell me that it's definitely the best ratio for you but I won't get into that here. As far as science is concerned, (like real science, not bro science) your ratio is not recommended for everyone. If it works for you and you're healthy then go for it but most people will not see great benefits from it. The problem is that even if all of your carbs are fruits and veggies you're probably not eating enough. Also, your body needs carbs to survive contrary to popular belief. It will only use protein to an extent before you end up in ketosis (not fun, and hard to exercise when you feel lightheaded and loopy).

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Baraka_Guru

I've burned body fat whilst consuming over 400 g of carbs daily. I prefer it that way because I'm usually quite active when I decide to shed some fat. That's why you probably won't see very many low-carb athletes.

I don't think I'd ever use diet pills. It seems like a way to trick your body into doing the things exercise is supposed to do, with regard to metabolism. The appetite suppressant mechanism would be counter-intuitive if you were exercising at the same time. I think appetite is an important indicator in terms of reading your body while on an exercise program.

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Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
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cadre

+1 This is why I eat 50% carbs. I do a lot of endurance training and cardio and carbs allow me to run as long as I need to.

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Baraka_Guru

Yeah, I think most athletes realize this. I've read articles about athletes experimenting with low-carb diets only to find it had a negative impact on performance.

The key to exercise is glycogen, which is essentially glucose that is converted into muscle storage. During exercise (especially resistance/weight training), glycogen becomes depleted. Immediately afterward, the body will seek out glucose to replenish the stores in the muscles. The most efficient way to ensure this is by ingesting carbohydrates, and this is why insulin is actually important: it facilitates this process.

Athletes who don't eat enough carbs will have diminished recovery times and possibly will "hit the wall" while training due to low glycogen stores. Glycogen is the primary fuel for muscles. When it cannot be found, it will seek glucose because it is the most readily available fuel source. If the body needs to turn to fat or protein or muscle itself, it does so but not very efficiently.

In recovery, the body will expend many calories to replenish glycogen. This includes both glucose and fat. I'm pretty sure in my case, most of my fat burning happens during recovery, rather than in training sessions themselves. Consider the energy required to convert glucose into glycogen in addition to the protein synthesis required to rebuild muscle tissue.

This is why I'd recommend intense resistance training sessions mixed in with cardio before I'd turn to diet pills. Forcing your muscles to deplete glycogen really ramps up your metabolism. Add to that the demands for repairing damaged muscle tissue. This is why I tend to eat more while on a program. This is why my carb intake goes beyond 400 g daily. My metabolism is through the roof.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

chinese crested

A friend loses weight once a year by going to india for a few months - always comes back with the trots, but can always pull his jeans down without undoing them (does it in pub - look how much weight I have lost.I have had the prescribed pills, and they do work, although cant get them here now as they are not prescribed. Swimming is a very good all round toner - and as you know, muscle weighs more than fat. Having been annorexic and bulimic - I was finaly happy with my size - although I was heavier than I had been for years - swimming changed my body shape, that and cycling. Instead of just scales - try using a tape measure if there are parts you want to trim.

Almirschuch

i'd becareful with them

cadre

I didn't notice this earlier but I just want to point out that Ephedra is off the market but (in the US at least) Ephedrine is still available but tightly controlled. Most diet pills do not use it simply because it is so hard to sell with the current regulations. They often use fairly similar ingredients such as yohombe which are not yet regulated.

That said, ephedrine and ephedrine stacks will increase your metabolism all of three percent. That's sixty calories in a two thousand calorie diet. Not much when you consider the side effects (rapid heart beat, fainting, etc).

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noodle

Z, I used one from GNC that is no longer on the market. Honestly, I can't remember the name.
I took it for a few years. There was nothing "speedy" about it. Total Lean, perhaps? It was marketed as a "weight loss supplement". I lost maybe 10 pounds on it by doing nothing. I (got dumped and) changed my diet, started working out 5 - 6 days a week, and dropped 75 pounds in 6 months. I stopped taking it and slowed down on my workouts and, naturally, started to gain some of the weight back. Not a lot, but I still lost 94 pounds with it in my system. Could I have done it without the supplement? No idea. I've fluctuated my whole life. Shoot, I fluctuate up to 7 pounds in a week sometimes.
Are they easy? Sure.
Do they work? Sometimes.
Can they make you shit yourself constantly? Yup.
Are they good for you? Not necessarily.
Are they bad for you? Some.
Worth it? Depends on who you ask.

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