Lasereth

I don't talk about this much on here because it's really really complicated and personal, but now's a great time because I need to complain to anyone that wants to listen.

I have a food problem. A major food problem......I think about food all day, every day, every waking hour, from the moment I wake up, till I finally fall asleep at night. My whole life is controlled by food.

I wake up and eat a bowl of cereal. It doesn't matter what kind, 30 minutes later I feel like I haven't eaten in days. I sit there in misery until lunch time, then I eat my lunch and 30 minutes later the hunger returns. All I do at work is think about how hungry I am, what I could be eating, how unfair it is that I'm so hungry while others aren't, and how if I eat, then I gain weight, but if I don't eat, then I don't lose weight either.

I can't function right without food. When I have to go out on a call for work, I think to myself well what are you gonna do about your hunger while out? Should I find something to eat before? What if there's no where to get food while out?

When I eat it feels like I'm high (never did drugs, just using this term because it fits). I get in a better mood, and I have better productivity, and I have a better outlook on life. Then about 10 minutes later I think fuck it, now I'm gonna get fatter, fuck this shit, fuck hunger, fuck food, fuck fat, fuck it all. Why do I even bother doing anything because I'll just be hungry all the time and not be able to eat. Then when I do eat I feel bad and it's a huge circle of stupidity.

I'm hungry every minute of the day. It's easy for my coworkers to sit here and work all day with a free spirit -- they get hungry at lunch time and at supper time and are "just fine" in between. At 8:30 AM I could eat a whole fucking pizza and not get sick.

I lost 70 pounds 2 years ago by exercising and lowering my caloric intake to 1,500 per day. I was very proud of myself and that kept me going, but I also realized that it put me in a huge depression. I hated everything. Nothing gave me interest anymore. The things I used to obsess about now I couldn't give less of a shit about.

Well I went to see a psychologist about the problem. She was very helpful. She said I have an unhealthy relationship with food and that not eating when I was hungry was causing my depression. She mentioned that maybe I should eat say 2,500 calories per day instead of 1,500 and see if I got happier. That was 6 months ago.

I took her advice and for the past 6 months I started eating at work when I was hungry. I also ate at home when I was hungry. The depression was alleviated an extreme amount. I was in a better mood and wasn't as pissed off at everything. After a very short period of time I started noticing the weight gain. Fast forward to now and I've gained 20 pounds back and my clothes are tight and I'm noticeably fatter.

NOW I'm back in the depression again. Now I stuff my face at work but it doesn't make me feel good, I just get disgusted about the weight gain and only enjoy the food until it's gone. There is no relief now -- I can't take pride in my weight loss, but I can't eat to feel good because of the weight gain, there's just nothing.

I tried stopping eating already but I can't. I can't even make it throughout the day without extreme depression without eating all day.

What the hell am I supposed to do. I've been prescribed depression medication and it did jack shit. It was even supposed to help with addictions but it didn't curb my appetite, it actually made it worse combined with my psychologist recommending I increase my caloric intake.

I don't get how other people can just not be hungry. ALLL day long I'm hungry, I feel like my insides are rotting when I don't eat. I feel like I'm mentally withering away when I'm hungry. Hunger and food controls my very existence. Other people eat "6 meals a day" and stay in shape. I try that and just get fatter, not that the 6 meals keep me from being hungry. I've tried eating foods that make you fuller, I've tried drinking water, I've tried it all. No matter what I do, I stay hungry all the time and it controls me. Quite literally controls my whole life. The only time I get full is if I eat 1,500 calories (or more) per meal, but that gets me back to where I was a few years ago (morbidly obese). Tell me there's others out there that have their entire lives controlled by this burning hunger.........

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

genuinegirly

Little snacks throughout the day don't work for you? Are your physicians sure you're not hypoglycemic?
You describe a miserable existance. I can't imagine dealing with a struggle like that every day. I hope you can find others to relate to, or even better, people who have overcome this kind of turmoil.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

Cimarron29414

Wow, I sincerely hate that for you. I would recommend a medical doctor. About half way through, I was thinking thyroid issues. I'm at a loss for words and wish I could be more helpful. When was your last physical?

__________________
Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

madli

It must be really terrible to suffer like this. Glad you had the courage to write about it.

First, I would check with your doctor. There are certain genetic disorders characterized by what's called morbid hunger - ie. Kleine-Levin Syndrome, Prader-Willi Syndrome - not saying you have these (would have to know more about you, but you can google the symptoms), but at least you should have your thyroid levels, etc. checked. Always first rule out any medical causes.

Then, what do you actually weigh? If you eat enough for your weight, activity level and metabolism, you shouldn't be hungry all the time, unless there's a medical or psychological cause. 1500 calories a day might not be enough to sustain you - there are lots of on-line calorie requirement calculators (ie. Calorie Needs for Men). If you require 2500 calories a day to not feel hungry, going to 1500 cold turkey will be very hard. Figure out your maintenance calorie needs, then gradually reduce so you won't feel so hungry.

If you've already tried that, I'd suggest increasing your activity levels and seeing if you can find low calorie foods that will fill you, like raw vegetables.

Finally, if none of that is the answer, consider whether it's Emotional Eating. A very complex phenomenon psychologically, but there are supports groups for this, like Overeaters Anonymous. Often arises out of a history of trauma or neglect, can be a result of needing to fill some emptiness or trying to self-reward for over-working and neglecting your needs. Something to raise with your psychologist.

Hope some of that is helpful. Congratulations on reaching out for help.

Redjake

Lasereth is my twin brother and I have the exact same problem. I think it's genetic for that reason. I am hungry 24/7 and it rules my life. The only way I've gotten around it is to eat fruit and chicken/tuna/salmon all day in small portions. But the problem is, fruit and poultry don't satisfy me so I'm usually not happy after I eat it. So I lead a miserable life from the eyes of food also.

__________________
Off the record, on the q.t., and very hush-hush.

lurkette

I would definitely try seeing a nutritionist, as others have suggested.
I'm so sorry to hear about this - it sounds terrible! I can relate, as when I'm on a diet (as I usually am) I can get obsessed about food, but it's more about the number of calories I have left and how to spend them. All the same, it's distracting and distressing and I sympathize.

But you might also look at <i>what</i> you're eating, and you might look at eating low-glycemic foods. Kicking off the day with cereal alone is a recipe for disaster - it's revs up your metabolism and sets you up for a crash as soon as the simple sugars are gone.

Have you tried starting off with eggs and bacon and orange juice instead? Or yogurt and granola? Getting some slow-burning protein into your diet early on might help.

The fact that your twin brother has similar issues points to a genetic metabolic issue. If it's psychological rather than physiological (although odds are it's both) you might look at your relationship to food as children - was it scarce? Was it used as a reward?

__________________
"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

Lasereth

Hmm. Well when we stayed with my mom, food was very scarce, but when we stayed with my dad, it was basically gorge fest, order a pizza for each kid twice a week type thing.

I've tried eating other stuff for breakfast -- the bacon and eggs are a joke, I'd gain weight in no time if I tried that. Sounds delicious though ha ha ha ha. I've tried oatmeal and fibery/proteiny stuff to make me stay full longer but it doesn't help. Thanks for all the replies so far.

BTW my dad also has this exact same problem, has for as long as I can remember.

---------- Post added at 08:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:55 PM ----------

The little snacks don't help. I get hungry 10 minutes after I eat them, plus gain weight. Also I don't know what hypoglycemic is, and I very, very rarely go to the doctor.

---------- Post added at 08:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:58 PM ----------

3.5 years ago when I got my job

---------- Post added at 09:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 PM ----------

I currently weigh 240. I'm 5'10". I was 220 about 6 months ago. Before I started working out heavily I was 210ish. I was 280 before I lost the 70 pounds.

I know my body requires more than 1500 a day, but the problem is that if I do ANYTHING more than that, even 1800, then I gain weight. 2000 and I gain 5 pounds a month. 2500 per day and I gain 10 pounds per month.

The sad part is if I eat 1500 or 2500 per day I'm still hungry so what's the point.

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

kramus

oops

__________________
And now to disengage the clutch of the forebrain ...
I'm going with this - if you like artwork visit http://markfineart.ca

madli

Sounds like you need to see a doctor to rule out a metabolic problem which may be genetic in origin. Hypoglycemia is low blood sugar. For sure, seeing a nutritionist and learning to balance protein and low glycemic index carbs will help. You might find following the Zone diet plan works for you - Healthy Diet Plans | Zone Diet is a healthy weight loss plan based on science, - it's all about blood sugar/glucagon control and that balance determines hunger levels.

Based on your height and weight, you need at least 3000 calories a day to not feel hungry. If that takes you to an unacceptable weight, then the only way to lower your body's set point for weight is through exercise.

It sounds like you're feeling very defeated right now. Maybe too depressed to see hope in any options. Turn to the experts if you can. You need professional assessment and help, you can't do this on your own.

When you're ready, I hope you pursue this and then report back to us. If it's something genetic, I would be very interested in hearing what it is.

Lasereth

I do exercise. I do weights 3-4 times a week. I used to do cardio also but after 6 months of that with no weight loss I quit and started doing weights only. I'll check out that Zone diet though.

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

lurkette

Okay, this plus your brother having the same issue definitely points to some kind of underlying physiological disorder.

The first step is to get to a physician. First stop: family/general practitioner who can order some blood workups and refer you to a specialist if need be. You're in Winston (howdy, neighbor!) so WF Baptist should have someone in the Endocrinology and Metabolism department who could help. If that fails, Duke has a very good program.

I definitely feel for you - it's intensely frustrating to feel out of control of your body and not know why the hell it's doing what it's doing.

__________________
"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

Baraka_Guru

Ruling out thyroid problems or other disorders, you could look at your distribution of nutrients in your diet.

For example, both fat and fibre help make you feel fuller for longer than carbs and proteins alone.

Dietary fat does not necessarily equal body fat, so get that out of your head. It's just like sugar is not the total sum of your blood sugar, as protein is converted to glucose as well as starches, and all of it can be converted to body fat. This is why balancing our diet is key. Dietary fat (preferably vegetable sources) plays a number of roles in the diet beyond satiety. It helps control and maintain healthy cholesterol levels, as well as keeping the heart healthy. It also plays a role in hormonal balance, namely, your testosterone production. Based on what is likely your recommended daily caloric intake, you should probably be consuming 60 to 80 grams of fat per day. If you eat three square meals a day, that's as much as 20 or 30 grams or so per meal. Ultra low-fat diets are the wrong way to go in most cases, as are low-carb diets.

Most North Americans eat no where near as much fibre as they should. Men should consume over 30 grams of fibre a day. That may seem like a lot to you if you aren't already choosing whole grain products over refined products such as white bread and Minute Rice. The first thing most people should do to improve their diet is to cut out all the refined crap and go for the whole grain stuff. And read the label, some products are tricksy. Look for whole grain ingredients and look at the fibre value, it doesn't lie. You can easily get 4 grams of fibre in two slices of bread if it's a good enough product. Also realize the fruits and vegetables contain a lot of fibre, but only if you eat the whole thing. If your fruit & veggie intake is mainly juices and sauces, you need to start eating more whole foods.

Also consider eating nut and seed products: they contain both fat and fibre, not to mention protein. Eat more seed and nut butters, eat them raw as handy snacks, but just watch out for the salty versions. Learn to appreciate the unsalted foods. Almonds are a great choice, as are walnuts, flax seeds, and sunflower seeds. Consider adding these to salads. I grind up flax seeds in a coffee grinder to add to protein shakes.

So the question is, are you eating enough dietary fat from vegetable sources? Are you eating enough fibre?

I don't think there is one overall solution to your issue. I think this is a sum of a number of factors. I wouldn't be surprised if you found out that most of it is psychological rather than physiological. Many people have psychological problems with food. Though it does sound like both could be the problem.

Would it be too much to ask you to let us know what your weight routine is?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

noodle

You know, I went through this for a long time when I was younger.
I got up to 220 pounds by the time I was 26. I would eat all the time, literally all the time that I could. I'd end up feeling like I could chew off my own limbs at times. It's such a horrible feeling... ravenous hunger, though I knew I shouldn't be hungry and some guilt and confusion as to why I was eating so much, watching the scale go up, etc.
Mine was somewhat related to psychological issues but it was compounded by what I was choosing to eat. The foods I'd grab would cause blood sugar crashes, and I'd pick up something else to combat the depression and tiredness that came with it.
It took forcing myself to exercise and face up to some of the issues that I was dealing with to combat the depression and changing my diet drastically to curb that hunger. I ended up eating the same amounts of food for a long time, but different kinds. Whole foods, complex carbs, vegetables, LOTS of proteins, and shifting my boredom patterns.
I would literally eat all day, my stomach wasn't empty often, but I was eating edamame as a snack, lightly steamed and refrigerated broccoli sprinkled with soy sauce, airpopped popcorn with butter flavored spray and a little parmesan cheese, turkey and string cheese roll ups, etc. But, I dropped some weight really fast at first from the change in type of food.
I'll not give too much advice, but that's how I forced myself to get a handle on the feeling that I was going to keel over if I didn't eat. The lower GI foods really helped.
And then I found out that my mother was hypoglycemic... she's now an insulin dependent diabetic, as was my father, and I need to keep an eye on my blood sugar. Just that knowledge alone helped me be more proactive. I still can go into those modes where I get into the cycle of FOOD NOW if I eat pasta too often, or too much sugary stuff.

It's a horrible feeling, though, Lasereth and RedJake, I can only empathize somewhat because I know I didn't go through quite the same thing. But, I lost 94 pounds and a lot of the retraining of the hunger areas of my brain (with a lot of help from other people and nutritionists) has stuck as long as I pay attention. Good karma (I don't do "luck").

__________________

Lasereth

I hate to trivialize your post with a simple answer, but: I've already tried that. I've tried every "diet" known to man. I talked to a nutritionist at work and she had me on a diet very similar to the one you just mentioned. I tried it for 3 or 4 months. Despite my grocery bill being literally 300% higher, I also lost absolutely no weight, stayed hungry still, AND had to spend time preparing the meals (I hate cooking, I hate food preparation, I hate culinary arts, I think people who enjoy this type thing are weird ). It made no difference. Except my stomach was always upset and I had to go to the bathroom every day but very little would come out (when I was down to 1500 cals a day, I went to the bathroom once every 2 weeks).

For the record, I got a quasi-physical for work a few months ago, and my blood pressure is great, cholesterol well in the good range, triglycerides normal, everything A-OK except my weight.

And I don't really follow a weight routine. I just go on my break at work and do arms or chest or legs that day. Nothing serious.

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

Baraka_Guru

hey, no problem.

I hate to trivialize your attempt, but 3 or 4 months isn't really long enough to really reap the rewards. You need to do it for as much as long as a year.

What are your sleep habits like? What is the quality?

I hope you're kidding. You were only taking a dump once ever two weeks? Is that even possible?

I don't know why your stomach as upset.... maybe you were sensitive to some of the foods that were new to you? You should have found out what was triggering it, if possible. But going to the bathroom everyday is normal. People are different, but some of us have two or three movements a day (like me), while others have two or three a week. But once every two weeks? That sounds problematic.

You might want to formalize it to ensure you are actually getting the most out of it. When done properly, weight training can burn a hell of a lot of calories. But if you're not eating enough of the proper foods, it won't do a hell of a lot. In speaking with personal trainers, it's often the case that people who want to exercise and lose weight run into an odd problem: they're not eating enough.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

She-lish

dlish brought my attention to this very interesting and challenging case. Im an Accredited Practicing Dietitian (APD an equivelant of a Registered Dietitian (RD) in the USA)

Reading the whole discussion , I was very impressed by the contributions everyone made and questions they asked. Many recommendations such as;

1. Low GI diet
2. Balancing out all macronutrients
3. More frequent meals/snacks
4. Foods that incraese satiety (ie increase protein with foods such as nuts and seeds etc)
5. Increasing fibre (along the lines of low GI again)
6. Increasing calorie intake while incraesing exercise as well

Some of the questions asked such as calorie intake that he should be having? A history of food restriction? Current weight?

Unfortunetely for you, you have tried all of the suggetions listed but nothing has worked. You are exercising and doing more anaerobic exercise rather than aerobic which means that if you did a body composision analysis, you should have normal levels of muscle in your body (possibly excess fat if you are obese now) and your metabolism should be fine which will be reflected in your Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR).

Im sure there is a significant psychological component to be factored in here. Many studies show that people who have a history of fad dieting or restriction of food will usually binge and will usually be more obsessed with food as opposed to those who have always had a healthy relationship with food, never yo-yo dieted and eat everything within moderation.

Im not usually one that resorts to this recommendation but in your situation you may want to consider and appetite suppressants and/or bariatric surgery. You will need to speak to your doctor and see if you are a candidate for these appetite suppresants (although these are not long term solutions). Since you have mentioned that you have no co-morbidities, then i dont see why bariatric surgery cannot be considered. There are numerous types of bariatric surgeries, some more invasive than others but you will need to discuss this with your docto to see if this is appropriate for you.

You will need to have your dietitian who has a psychology background and/or a speciality in bariatrics to work hand in hand with your doctor. I do wish you the best, and if you need any pointers, send a PM to dlish and i’ll respond to your queries or you could respond in here. Good luck once again.

Lasereth

Wow thanks for all the input guys.

When growing up it was either stuff your face like my dad or not have much to eat (at my mom's). I've always ate a lot at every meal, even since I was a kid. I was never taught that too much food was a bad thing. I think a lot of it could be psychological. Maybe I should go to my doctor (haven't been to him in 7 years or so).

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

Jinn

Having not seen your doctor in seven years is a problem in itself, even for someone at peak health. Especially as men get older, we should be seeing doctors at least once every 3 years for basic physicals, including routine checks for prostate, colon cancer. They're professionals who trained for decades just for this purpose, so don't be shy.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

snowy

Yeah, you really should go to the doctor. It's the first thing anyone should do before starting a diet and exercise regimen, and in your case, I think it's especially vital that you eliminate a biological cause for your constant hunger before weighing some of the other options.

I really wish you the best with this, Lasereth. Please keep us posted.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

canuckguy

Lasereth, I hope nothing but the best for you. I am sorry if I missed this above and I know nothing about working out, but is it possible your not getting enough calorie burn on your workouts?

I do a cardio focused work out (mostly bike) each day, and walk a couple of km's each night 5/7 nights a week. I try and do intervals of flat out effort mixed with a steady tempo. I try and mix in days where I do the same amount distance/time but just at a moderate tempo. I think the weight lifting is burning a ton of calories but wonder what a focus worked out would do for you.

As for the food side, you mentioned the cycling of having and going without. Your comments are pretty strong against people who cook and preparing food yourself. I don't know, seems like something is going on. find that and you have your answer maybe.

I hope that doctor can provide an answer and you get a fix.

Your not overweight, I am an idiot and use to make fun of overweight people until I saw some dateline special about the guy who lost the most amount of weight then gained it all back only to loose it again.

He said, he is a food addict and he has to put a fork in his mouth three times a day to eat. Can you imagine if an alcohol had to still take a drink each day? a smoker, one smoke a day? makes controlling it so much harder. I feel for you man, and hope you can solve it. whatever it maybe.

Lasereth

Yeah that's the worst. How do you kill an addiction when you have to do it 3 times a day at least? Stop smoking but you HAVE to smoke 3 a day. Stop cocaine but you have to shoot up 3 times a day. I mean come on. It really does feel like an addiction. I think I may go to an OA meeting and see if it helps. Also I think that the sugar high and then blow out may be something to look at it. I didn't crave the stuff I do now at work before. I was hungry, miserably hungry, but I didn't OBSESS over certain things like I do now. I think if I can get out of this routine maybe I can turn it around again. I still have to fight off the depression from not getting to eat when hungry though.

---------- Post added at 08:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:54 PM ----------

Very possibly, but what does this have to do with my burning hunger? The hunger is my main problem. I'm actually not in terrible shape. I'm fairly healthy and I've made some amazing progress in the gym in the past couple of years (went from 40 to 225 on benchpress for example). But no matter what, even if I'm 280 pounds, or 205 pounds, exercising or not, eating 6 times a day or not, eating protein and fiber and grainy stuff or not, I'm hungry 24/7, constantly, without relief, and it drives my very existence.

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

lurkette

Redjake and Lasereth, has it always been like this as long as you can remember, or did this start at a particular age?

At your physical, did they test your thyroid levels?

__________________
"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

Lasereth

It's always been like this. Not sure about the Thyroid check but my Nana has thyroid problems.

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

MSD

This alone is a sign that you have a serious digestive problem. You need to go to your doctor.

Jetée

Sorry it's taken me so long to realize this discussion.

I have had bouts with, and still deal the very same issue you both deal with (along with your father). I don't constantly think about food, but that's more to do with I me only thinking in spurts. I do, however, wonder where my next meal is going to be, what it will be, (hot, cold, green, snack, in a bag, on the roof, in a car) and then afterwards, I take time to decide what else I could have. I also don't get full. Ever. I can eat and eat and eat, but without knowing my limit (other than to satiate my hunger) I don't ever think to stop. This was probably triggered by my childhood, in which it was always a struggle to find and obtain one good, square meal a day. Anything else was a bonus. We (meaning our mind's trigger) may be acting on basic animal instinct to eat, and continuing eating, storing up nutrients and fat, if there was ever the case that we may not encounter food again for a while. It doesn't matter if that's the real case or not, because it is very hard to override it (but not altogether impossible to ignore it when you realize what's up).

Additionally, I do (did?) have the same digestive disorder which only allowed me to occupy real estate on the porcelain commode just a few times a week, if that. I still have not gotten a definitive answer from any medical specialist on what this is a symptom of, and what causes it, but I do know a fair share of the population does experience the same problem. I overhead this conversation about a young teenager only going to the bathroom every two weeks, saying it was normal for him, but his friend was just in disbelief. I'm not sure if the stastistics are right, or even up to date, but last I heard, at least 8-12% of the population details that they experience only 1 or 2 bowel movements a week, on average.

When I had the money and time to shop well, cook well, and eat well, I did so. And in turn, after about a week, did my digestion "normalize" to me going about once a day, or every other day. The thing is, I did notice it took me eating at least six "meal-sized" portions a day to achieve this. I have never counted calories before, but there may be something about if I do not reach a certain caloric marker daily, I get "penalized" with a "hunger debt", and subsequently, I get backed up. (I also have sort of the same thing with my sleep pattern, in which if I go to bed after midnight, I must, absolutely without fail, must I sleep for a full 12-hours at the point from which I finally went to bed. That's the "sleep debt".) The main problem I see with this is that I (we?) either too little at a time, or it's a product of what, exactly, is the foodstuff in which is being ingested by the body. With me, it doesn't matter how much fiber or water I take in, if I don't eat "full, satisfying, or heavy" meals, like whole grains, legumes, and meat, then it becomes increasingly more difficult to keep my one-a-day schedule.

Last thing, is I do get a little peeved by the patronizing comments of "What a horrible, miserable existence you guys live. I would die if I had to deal this." I realize this is not normal, but since when do we as functioning human beings ever experience a "normalized" existence? I've found ways to overcome the situation, (by constantly eating... which again is another "problem") but as of yet, from the many medical sites I've visited, and have frequented since I was young (I was always the 'sickly' child) the doctors have had no answer for me, other than I was constipated, and needed to eat more "greens". (drink this green powder, and tell me what happens ; didn't work? I also have this green pill!.)

The solution to my problem is another complicated problem, yes, but it does give me the feeling that I'm not the bloated monster I used to once be. By the by, on the weight detail, ever since I was perhaps 8 years old, had I had an insatiable craving for more food (no wonder, it's because I was always hungry) but somehow along the way and stepping stone to adulthood, my body's mechanics retained that desire and fear of hunger, so the cravings for more edible consumptions is still intact. Now, though, whilst I was always a chubby youngster, now as I have the funds and means to eat as much as I want, do I still want more; thing is, I'm still a featherweight, weighing around or less than ~140 lbs (or for the English folk, approx. 10 stone).


What I'd recommend, in my own experience, is, well... I don't know. Do you want to be able to eat less, "go" at a more regular interval, or would like to be able to, relatively. maintain a static weight and physique? I'm sure there could be a way to achieve all three, but speaking for myself, it is very difficult to do, and you'd need to spend at least a quarter or a third of your day (~4 hours), cumulatively, both stuffing yourself, and then exercising afterwards. As it is right now, I eat about 5-7 meals a day, exercise peaks at an ideal 2-hours total, and then, only then, am I barely able to accomplish my business on the commode, daily. It's real frustrating having to allot so much time, energy and actual earnings of one's already busy worklife of what comes so "naturally" for others.

Again, another sorry for making this post so long.

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

Lasereth

My only wish is that my life not be controlled by hunger. I've already given up on being the size I should be (I was at 1,500 cals for almost 3 years and never went below 210ish pounds, I'm "supposed" to be 160). If I can get down to 215-220 again and stay healthy, but not be controlled by hunger, I would be satisfied. I don't care about going to the bathroom -- I think your hunger debt thing is pretty accurate. What happens is I eat about 1500 a day for 2 weeks and then after 2 weeks I go to the bathroom 4-7 times in in the next 48 hours. My body must be using most of the 1500 calories so that it's not even worth its time to crap it out on a daily basis. If I eat 2000-2500 calories a day, I do usually go once a day or once every other day.

Thanks for all the input again.

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

Jinn

I hate to be the nag (seeing as how this was undoubtedly not easy to post in the first place) - but have you scheduled a doctor's appointment yet? There's a certain level of value having random internet strangers give you advice and condolences but its a diminishing return if you don't take a step on your problem.

From your descriptions, it sounds like this ails you greatly and you'd do just about anything to resolve it. It might benefit you more to match our contributions with a step of your own.

A journey of a 1000 miles begins with a first step.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Lasereth

I have a huge negativity barrier about doctors. I think most of what they say is BS and most medicines are BS since they don't have much (or any) effect on me. I WILL schedule an appointment though, I owe it to TFP for being so responsive about my problem.

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

lurkette

Thanks, Lasereth

I understand your reluctance, as I am stubborn when it comes to going to the doctor for things I have lost all hope about.

But just because they haven't found the cure for what ails you doesn't mean they can't/won't. Sometimes it's just a matter of perseverance - often failed treatments help narrow the diagnosis, but only if you go back!

I will also point out that if you were on a 1500 calorie diet I wouldn't expect you to lose much weight - your body was probably starving and hanging onto whatever it could.

__________________
"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

Lasereth

For 3 years? Then why do people lose weight when starved?

If that's true, then how many cals am I supposed to eat? I've tried 1,500, 1800, 2000, 2500, etc. and nothing works. I just gain weight with anything over 1500-1800. I think 3 years of 1500 is enough to get your body out of the starvation mode. This was combined with an exercise regiment too (which is proven to be not nearly as effective as dieting at losing weight).

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

lurkette

*shrug*

Just a suggestion - didn't know how long you'd tried it.

DOCTOR!

__________________
"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

Baraka_Guru

This is a problem, and I'm sure you're frustrated. But 1,500 calories combined with exercise? That far, far too few calories, especially for most men.

I'm surprised you were be able to have very effective workouts on that. I think most men would "conk out" in under an hour. I know I would.

I'm sorry for getting on your case about this, but 1,500 calories isn't enough for most physically active men, and especially not athletes (even amateurs).

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Lasereth

You don't understand how many times people tell me this. EVERYBODY tells me this. But it's really quite simple: if I eat more than that, I get FAT. I'm talking gain 10 pounds PER MONTH until I'm 280 again. What am I supposed to do about that? It's easy to say "you're not eating enough, especially if you're exercising" but I gain weight instantly if I eat any more than that, even with a workout regiment, even eating healthy foods.

And no, it wasn't enough -- I typically got light headed rather quickly if I didn't take a break between each exercise.

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

Baraka_Guru

I don't doubt for a second that there's something wrong. But at 1,500 calories, your workouts aren't going to do much for you. Cardio, sure, but that in combination with resistance training? The math doesn't add up. I'm not sure what your BMR is, but the difference between that and what you'd need to fuel adequate exercise has to be more than 1,500 calories.

And for the record, you can't wait out the starvation mode.

Your going to have to trust your doctor, and tell him everything. I stand by my suspicion that this is a combination of physiological and psychological issues.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

GreyWolf

I'm late to this thread... and I see that there are some comments from people far better qualified than I to offer advice on diet/nutrition. First of all, I really am sorry for your situation. It is obviously negatively affecting your quality of life big time.

I can't comment on the nutritional advice given above other than to say it all sounds fairly reasonable. Given your weight and activity regimen, it's hard to imagine you would gain weight at anything under 2000 cal/day. I would think you should be able to go up to 2500 cal/day safely. If you gain weight at those levels, then there seems to be a disconnect somewhere. You shouldn't be able to maintain a 5'10", 240 lb body on 1500 cal/day without being completely sedentary.

But I don't think that is your issue. You have repeatedly referred to your food "addiction" and constant hunger. And I think that is the issue. And you need to treat it as such. As was mentioned, Overeaters Anonymous is a good support group, but you may need more.

You've seen a psychologist, but have you seen a behaviour modification specialist? Not all psychologists are proficient in dealing with addictive disorders that are receptive to behavioural interventions. It's been many years since I dabbled in the area, but the possibilities for a motivated subject (and you seem to be one) are sometimes astonishing.

Constant thinking about food is an addictive behaviour. If your blood sugar level isn't low, and your stomach isn't empty, you shouldn't feel hunger. If you do, that suggests it's at least partly, if not mostly, psychological in nature. The range of outcomes is great, and since your family seems to have a history of this problem there may be other considerations than just the behaviour, but extreme behaviours can be adjusted with the right program.

(always remember my advice is worth exactly what you pay for it... but it might be worth considering)

Best of luck.

__________________
The secret to great marksmanship is deciding what the target was AFTER you've shot.

madli

Your story is so physiologically improbable that it makes me wonder if you have some variant of Kleine-Levin Syndrome (sleep disorder with compulsive hunger/eating - Kleine-Levin Syndrome Foundation Inc. | What is Kleine-Levin Syndrome?), which because you keep such tight psychological and behavioural control of the hunger during the day, has resulted in Night Eating Syndrome (a sleep eating disorder - Night Eating). Maybe you gain weight on more than 1500 calories/day, despite exercising, because you're eating tons of calories in your sleep.

From the sounds of your responses, you feel like you've tried everything, when in fact, it sounds like there's a lot you don't know. Your medical, nutritional and exercise knowledge base in this area is not comprehensive enough to conclude that things are hopeless for you. Yet, you are reluctant to seek expert medical advice. I don't know why you're aversive to seeing doctors, but as an MD myself, I do hear this a lot from patients, and I think it's important to get past for health reasons.

In the end, I think a big problem for you will be that your problem is multi-factorial, so you will need the opinion of a number of medical experts (maybe a geneticist, an endocrinologist, a psychiatrist, a neurologist, a sleep medicine specialist, etc.) to get a final diagnosis. In the Canadian health care system where I am, that may be more feasible to do, so maybe I'm biased by not knowing your situation. At any rate, your family doctor should be the place to start.

Good luck.

MSD

At 5'10" and 240, I forget how old you are so I guessed between 25 and 30, your basal metabolic rate is about 2200 calories per day. If you eat less than that you will lose weight; if you eat more, you will gain weight. Exercise will burn calories in addition to that. Saying that you will gain weight if you eat more than 1500/day can't be right unless you are carrying around in your body a localized violation of the laws of thermodynamics.

I suspect that you are significantly underestimating your calorie intake.

Lasereth

I get that a lot too. But I read what I'm eating; I'm not stupid. If there's 2 servings in a can of something and I split it with my wife then I eat 1 serving. For 3 years I counted calories every single day. For about 2 years I was on strictly 1500 a day and never got below 210. I ate out one day a week on Friday for lunch and dinner so obviously I went over 1500 on those days but a lot of people say that you should have 1 "eat what you want" day anyway.

---------- Post added at 10:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 PM ----------

Thanks for the tips but I highly doubt I have a sleep eating disorder. There is nothing to eat in my house. I keep no snack foods, nothing that I can twist the top off of and go at it, nothing that I can get out of a bag or take a little here and there, etc. I purposely keep easy access foods away because I'll eat an entire family size package of oreos in 1 night if I buy it. So if I did have sleep eating disorder there would be opened cans, food packaging thrown away, etc. and there never is. Thanks for the advice. I'm still hesitant about calling my doctor -- I can just imagine walking in there..."So, what's wrong?" "I'm hungry. Like all the time, no matter what." "You came to the doctor because you're hungry?"

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

Baraka_Guru

Adding up your calories, what foods are you eating exactly? What's a sample menu of a typical day?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

snowy

Doctors are there to help you, and excessive hunger IS a symptom of a variety of disorders. I really doubt any good doctor would blow you off over something like this.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau