Ask the athletes - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

The_Jazz · 08-14-2009, 07:36 AM

Now, this is not a Jazz-centric thread, so let's get that out of the way up front. If you've got the experience to answer the question, do so.

We've had several folks ask about an athletic/workout sticky for advice, note-sharing, etc. Here it is. If you have questions about a sport that you've just picked up or want to take to the next level, ask here. If you need advice on something, ask here. If you want to share something you think is valuable for other athletes, here's the spot.

I'm going to sticky this for now based on the requests. If it gets enough traffic to warrant that assumption, I'll leave it as a sticky. If it doesn't, well, I'll take the sticky away and let it rise and/or fall on its own merits.

Although I'm a (former) runner, this isn't intended to be strictly for runners. It will be what you folks make it, and I'll very happily come back to answer questions, give advice or be a shoulder to cry on in all running matters. But I don't know jack about lifting, for example.

So have at it.

LordEden · 08-14-2009, 07:51 AM

Alrighty then, a sticky thread for Tilted life!

I got a question I asked but never received an answer for. The main question is, after running what stretches should I do. I'd like to see pictures if I could so I know I'm doing them right, but a hearty description will do. I hurt myself last time I ran and didn't stretch right, so when I start running again, I want to make sure I am doing it right.

Thanks Jazz

The_Jazz · 08-17-2009, 05:27 PM

Well, I was hoping someone else would pick this up, but I guess not. I'll keep it stickied for a little longer to see if it takes off, otherwise, I'll have to let it fall.

Stretching - really, nothing beats having someone show you exactly how to do it and to give you feedback on what you should be feeling. A lot of local track/running clubs either have classes you can take for a nominal fee or have groups that run together for free. If it's the latter, ask.

Given the limitations of this format, all I can say is to completely stretch your legs, from your calves to your hamstrings to your quads. Don't forget your groin muscles or your IT band. Stretching your back and arms can help, too, but those were never as critical for me, and I usually used them as either time wasters or nerve reducers before a race.

Anything else?

Baraka_Guru · 08-17-2009, 05:38 PM

I'm not a runner, but I lift weights. A really good stretch my trainer taught me is the hurdle stretch.

Also, try this groin stretch:
Exercise: Groin Stretch

As Jazz says, hit up your entire legs with a series of stretches.

LAW2 · 08-17-2009, 05:50 PM

I recommend a gentle warm-up and then go for your run. Stretch after your run.

FelixP · 08-17-2009, 07:40 PM

A cool thing to do with weight lifting is to do multiple exercises before each set. For example, what I like to do sometimes is this: 10 bicep curls, 10 military presses, ten bent-over rows, ten supinated wrist curls. Thirty second break. Repeat two more times.

This also works well with pushups, full body dips, etc.

allaboutmusic · 08-20-2009, 01:28 PM

Here's a question that should be easy for the more experienced of you who work out.

I'd like to get a pull-up bar that will allow me to do a variety of pull-up exercises. My current pull-up bar is a simple, straight bar that goes across the frame. I have seen more elaborate ones that allow you to do different kinds of pull-ups with the hands in different positions. Can anyone comment on their effectiveness, and possibly point out features to look for?

Also, are push-up bars useful?

Willravel · 08-20-2009, 02:13 PM

Allabout, for pull-ups, I throw two old towels over the large support beam in my courtyard and do it that way. I've found that pull up bars are not the most effective method of doing what they're supposed to do in that they often ignore important stabilizers. My little brother came up with the idea.

Has anyone had any experience with the Nike "Free" types of running shoes? I've been hearing really good things about them.

FelixP · 08-20-2009, 02:30 PM

You can do pushups just by putting your hands on dumbells (same size, of course, unless you're trying to hit one side more than the other.) There are many kinds of exercises that can be done a regular bar. You can pullups, chinups, negative pullups, etc. If you want to hit your forearms, get some dumbells and do some hammer curls. I can't really recommend any pullup bars, because I do pullups on the lat pulldown bar.

---------- Post added at 06:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:26 PM ----------

Will-I dunno about Nike Free, but apparently I wear Nike Air Structure Triax. They're not bad, especially if you throw some Powerstep Pinnacle orthotics in there like I did; I like my running shoes tight.

JumpinJesus · 08-20-2009, 02:39 PM

Is deus ex machina a valid literary mechanism or just lazy writing!

The_Jazz · 08-20-2009, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JumpinJesus

Is deus ex machina a valid literary mechanism or just lazy writing!

Want to give me a reason to keep this one around or are you just going to clutter this thread with BS?

Strange Famous · 08-23-2009, 03:56 AM

whats the main difference between a good "club level" player an someone who's been at an elite level?

I recently played tennis against someone (a girl) who up until 15 was in the UK elite tennis programme - but she dropped out at abou that age... so she isnt a world ranked player or anything but up until 15 she was playing people (and sometimes beating) who are now top 100/top 200 players.

I half expected to be massacred, but I wasnt (althouh I did lose)...

The things I noticed were

I hit the ball harder
I served harder (although a lot less accurate)

She hit the ball with masses of spin, especially the serve
She got balls that I didnt think she would - without being especially quick she saw my drop shots as I shaped to play them rather than reacting to them
She didnt hit a lot more winners than me, but she retrieved shots that I hit that would be winners against anyone else

Now, Im not naive enough that I dont think that she wasnt probably going all out (and also she hasnt played a lot in the last few years) - but one thing Ive always been curious about is how hard a pro hits the ball - and she said compared to male players she trained with at 15/16 I serve and hit my forehand as hard as a pro would, but with a massive amount less control. The thing is when I go for my first serve with everything I get it in about 1/10 times, and when I do I dont really have any control of even whether it goes forehand or backhand side... but at least its fast! I dont have a backhand at all - just a block or an apologetic slice, but when the ball sits up nicely and I lace it I hit my forehand pretty hard cross court (but very clumsy playing down the line or inside out)

So... as a question for other people who play sport at a "good" level, have you ever played someone who is professional level, and if so what differences did you see?

I played youth football (ie soccer) at a decent level, but played at a very ordinary level as a senior - and so its hard for to comment about that.

I'd love to face an over from Brett Lee or Murali though, something like that, just to see what it was like...

JumpinJesus · 08-23-2009, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

Want to give me a reason to keep this one around or are you just going to clutter this thread with BS?

Feel free to remove it and accept my humbal apologies for disrupting the flow of the thread. There really should be a rule against threadjacking around here.

genuinegirly · 08-23-2009, 07:23 AM

This is a swimming question, I guess.

Is there a trick to getting out of a pool with no ladder?

I don't have much upper-arm strength, and my arms typically turn to jello at the end of a hard swim. So when it comes time to climb out of the lane in the university's pool, I have a difficult time pulling myself out. There are no steps. The pool is entirely too deep to jump off the bottom to give myself momentum. The concrete edge of the pool seems slippery and difficult to grip. There's a little platform at the end of the lane - one of those that real swimmers dive off of when they're racing. Last time I tried to get out of the pool I grabbed ahold of this platform and after a considerable effort was able to pull myself out. It was not fun. I was concerned that I would have to signal the lifeguard to give me a hand, but I finally pulled myself out. This was my first experience in a pool where there weren't steps or a ladder.

dlish · 08-23-2009, 09:44 AM

GG it depends on the hight of the hob around the pool. im assuming its an old pool because of what you describe. generally these days, most pools are flush with the surface of the water.

i had similar issues that you describe back in the days when i would do anwhere between 10-20 hours a week of swim squad traning, by the end of my 2hr swim sessions i'd feel the same way. my trick was to get your uppper body over onto the top of the hob, with your elbows horizontal on top of the hob. in that position, you have your body weight tipping outside the pool. your legs can dangle in the pool without you falling in.

the next step would be one of two things

a) bring one knee up and onto the hob
b) straighten your elbows and lift your body up whilst locking in your elbows. this should enable you to lift your knees up and out onto the top of the hob.

or you could just do this...

YouTube - BJ Jumps out of the Pool

genuinegirly · 08-23-2009, 12:50 PM

Thaks, dlish. I'll try that method next time. It sounds promising.
ps - That was a funny video.

Martian · 08-24-2009, 12:08 PM

Taking things in a different direction, I use this tool regularly and thought I would share it:

Google Maps Distance Calculator

For runners, walkers, cyclers or anyone else traveling outside, this will allow you to plan routes and track distances. Very handy.

dlish · 08-24-2009, 05:39 PM

interesting Martian. i just came across a similar site a few days ago for the same reason.

MapMyRun.com - Map your Run, Running Routes. Find Runs Anywhere. Join our Running Community of Runners. Run GPS, GPS, Running Social Network. Google Map Run, Calculate Calories, Online Pedometer, Distance, iPhone, and More.

pretty handy

ive looked at your site martian. its works the same way as the one ive linked above. but the one ive given actually give you a bit more of a personalised indication of how many calories you've burnt based on your height weight age etc, as well as any elevation running during the run. its pretty nifty.

samcol · 08-24-2009, 06:47 PM

Well here's some info for baseball players who are looking to get to the next level from high school. I played some low level college, nothing impressive, but I learned what it takes.

Stats really don't mean much because every high school/college plays different levels of skill etc.

However, what I found in camps is there are 3 basic things that get you looked at:

Arm speed, bat speed, and running speed. If you are even average at playing baseball and understand the game, excelling at any these will get you opportunities for playing at a higher level.

Your frame size also does matter because they do look at the potential for you to fill out your body muscularly and thus your ability to improve in these areas.

Strange Famous · 08-28-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcol

Well here's some info for baseball players who are looking to get to the next level from high school. I played some low level college, nothing impressive, but I learned what it takes.

Stats really don't mean much because every high school/college plays different levels of skill etc.

However, what I found in camps is there are 3 basic things that get you looked at:

Arm speed, bat speed, and running speed. If you are even average at playing baseball and understand the game, excelling at any these will get you opportunities for playing at a higher level.

Your frame size also does matter because they do look at the potential for you to fill out your body muscularly and thus your ability to improve in these areas.

Similar experience to I had in the transition between boys and seniors football (soccer) and to a lesser degree cricket (I was never a great cricketer but I was captain of the u-16's and the best player in the team, and never was more than a decent 2nd XI as a senior)

Because I was physically strong and relatively bright as a youngster I could be quite a dominant player at school and youth level... and then you hit 16/17 and are playing against adults and its a different world and there are plenty of players as strong as you, and I never had the skill level to go to the next level.

In youth sports early developers can really overperform... but once youre 18 or 20 and everyone has caught up, then class tells... and I never had class - just brute strength and a decent sporting brain.

Raghnar -ITA- · 11-19-2009, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

whats the main difference between a good "club level" player an someone who's been at an elite level?

I recently played tennis against someone (a girl) who up until 15 was in the UK elite tennis programme - but she dropped out at abou that age... so she isnt a world ranked player or anything but up until 15 she was playing people (and sometimes beating) who are now top 100/top 200 players.

I half expected to be massacred, but I wasnt (althouh I did lose)...

The things I noticed were

I hit the ball harder
I served harder (although a lot less accurate)

She hit the ball with masses of spin, especially the serve
She got balls that I didnt think she would - without being especially quick she saw my drop shots as I shaped to play them rather than reacting to them
She didnt hit a lot more winners than me, but she retrieved shots that I hit that would be winners against anyone else

Now, Im not naive enough that I dont think that she wasnt probably going all out (and also she hasnt played a lot in the last few years) - but one thing Ive always been curious about is how hard a pro hits the ball - and she said compared to male players she trained with at 15/16 I serve and hit my forehand as hard as a pro would, but with a massive amount less control. The thing is when I go for my first serve with everything I get it in about 1/10 times, and when I do I dont really have any control of even whether it goes forehand or backhand side... but at least its fast! I dont have a backhand at all - just a block or an apologetic slice, but when the ball sits up nicely and I lace it I hit my forehand pretty hard cross court (but very clumsy playing down the line or inside out)

So... as a question for other people who play sport at a "good" level, have you ever played someone who is professional level, and if so what differences did you see?

I have an experience similar as yours playing Volley with my gymn Teacher at High School. He was an Olympic Class Volley player (not the brightest but he went to the Olympic game!), maybe a little aged respect when he was on top, but he wasn't so super-human as expected. He did not jumped at wall 1m or things like that, his spikes was strong as mine, more or less, maybe with a little of effects mor but a LOT of precision.
He only knew what to take, when and where directioning it. In fact he wasn't super-human strong, only experienced a lot. Our Student All Star team vs Professor team couldn't stand a chance: every point in his hands was, sooner or later, a point. Even without spiking he knew how to let us uncover and put the ball when no-one was expecting.

I also played with a Italian A class Soccer Player when he played in a minor team, it was literally unstoppable. He was a very physic player, usual black-guy relying on muscle and strenght instead of technique, but simply was like seeing Mark Lenders of Holly and Benji cartoon passing straight through the defencers as bowling bowling ball through pins...
He was not particulary skilled: he knowed his deal and the tactics, how and when to move, recieve and pass the ball, but he wasn't particulary experienced or talented in order to embarass us all with threat-you-as-a-dumb-with-so-obvious-moves, but his physical skills was outstanding.

I'm feeling so old talking about my youthness sports... I must find some sporty hobby

08-14-2009, 07:36 AM	#1 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	Ask the athletes Now, this is not a Jazz-centric thread, so let's get that out of the way up front. If you've got the experience to answer the question, do so. We've had several folks ask about an athletic/workout sticky for advice, note-sharing, etc. Here it is. If you have questions about a sport that you've just picked up or want to take to the next level, ask here. If you need advice on something, ask here. If you want to share something you think is valuable for other athletes, here's the spot. I'm going to sticky this for now based on the requests. If it gets enough traffic to warrant that assumption, I'll leave it as a sticky. If it doesn't, well, I'll take the sticky away and let it rise and/or fall on its own merits. Although I'm a (former) runner, this isn't intended to be strictly for runners. It will be what you folks make it, and I'll very happily come back to answer questions, give advice or be a shoulder to cry on in all running matters. But I don't know jack about lifting, for example. So have at it. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

08-17-2009, 05:27 PM	#3 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	Well, I was hoping someone else would pick this up, but I guess not. I'll keep it stickied for a little longer to see if it takes off, otherwise, I'll have to let it fall. Stretching - really, nothing beats having someone show you exactly how to do it and to give you feedback on what you should be feeling. A lot of local track/running clubs either have classes you can take for a nominal fee or have groups that run together for free. If it's the latter, ask. Given the limitations of this format, all I can say is to completely stretch your legs, from your calves to your hamstrings to your quads. Don't forget your groin muscles or your IT band. Stretching your back and arms can help, too, but those were never as critical for me, and I usually used them as either time wasters or nerve reducers before a race. Anything else? __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

08-17-2009, 05:38 PM	#4 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	I'm not a runner, but I lift weights. A really good stretch my trainer taught me is the hurdle stretch. Also, try this groin stretch: Exercise: Groin Stretch As Jazz says, hit up your entire legs with a series of stretches. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

08-17-2009, 07:40 PM	#6 (permalink)
FelixP Insane Location: I'm up they see me I'm down.	A cool thing to do with weight lifting is to do multiple exercises before each set. For example, what I like to do sometimes is this: 10 bicep curls, 10 military presses, ten bent-over rows, ten supinated wrist curls. Thirty second break. Repeat two more times. This also works well with pushups, full body dips, etc. __________________ Free will lies not in the ability to craft your own fate, but in not knowing what your fate is. --Me "I have just returned from visting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world." --Douglas MacArthur

08-20-2009, 02:30 PM	#9 (permalink)
FelixP Insane Location: I'm up they see me I'm down.	You can do pushups just by putting your hands on dumbells (same size, of course, unless you're trying to hit one side more than the other.) There are many kinds of exercises that can be done a regular bar. You can pullups, chinups, negative pullups, etc. If you want to hit your forearms, get some dumbells and do some hammer curls. I can't really recommend any pullup bars, because I do pullups on the lat pulldown bar. ---------- Post added at 06:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:26 PM ---------- Will-I dunno about Nike Free, but apparently I wear Nike Air Structure Triax. They're not bad, especially if you throw some Powerstep Pinnacle orthotics in there like I did; I like my running shoes tight. __________________ Free will lies not in the ability to craft your own fate, but in not knowing what your fate is. --Me "I have just returned from visting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world." --Douglas MacArthur

08-17-2009, 05:50 PM	#5 (permalink)
LAW2 Upright Location: Florida	I recommend a gentle warm-up and then go for your run. Stretch after your run.

08-20-2009, 01:28 PM	#7 (permalink)
allaboutmusic Aurally Fixated	Here's a question that should be easy for the more experienced of you who work out. I'd like to get a pull-up bar that will allow me to do a variety of pull-up exercises. My current pull-up bar is a simple, straight bar that goes across the frame. I have seen more elaborate ones that allow you to do different kinds of pull-ups with the hands in different positions. Can anyone comment on their effectiveness, and possibly point out features to look for? Also, are push-up bars useful?

08-20-2009, 02:13 PM	#8 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Allabout, for pull-ups, I throw two old towels over the large support beam in my courtyard and do it that way. I've found that pull up bars are not the most effective method of doing what they're supposed to do in that they often ignore important stabilizers. My little brother came up with the idea. Has anyone had any experience with the Nike "Free" types of running shoes? I've been hearing really good things about them.

08-20-2009, 02:39 PM	#10 (permalink)
JumpinJesus Junkie Location: Chicago	Is deus ex machina a valid literary mechanism or just lazy writing! __________________ "I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

08-23-2009, 03:56 AM	#12 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	whats the main difference between a good "club level" player an someone who's been at an elite level? I recently played tennis against someone (a girl) who up until 15 was in the UK elite tennis programme - but she dropped out at abou that age... so she isnt a world ranked player or anything but up until 15 she was playing people (and sometimes beating) who are now top 100/top 200 players. I half expected to be massacred, but I wasnt (althouh I did lose)... The things I noticed were I hit the ball harder I served harder (although a lot less accurate) She hit the ball with masses of spin, especially the serve She got balls that I didnt think she would - without being especially quick she saw my drop shots as I shaped to play them rather than reacting to them She didnt hit a lot more winners than me, but she retrieved shots that I hit that would be winners against anyone else Now, Im not naive enough that I dont think that she wasnt probably going all out (and also she hasnt played a lot in the last few years) - but one thing Ive always been curious about is how hard a pro hits the ball - and she said compared to male players she trained with at 15/16 I serve and hit my forehand as hard as a pro would, but with a massive amount less control. The thing is when I go for my first serve with everything I get it in about 1/10 times, and when I do I dont really have any control of even whether it goes forehand or backhand side... but at least its fast! I dont have a backhand at all - just a block or an apologetic slice, but when the ball sits up nicely and I lace it I hit my forehand pretty hard cross court (but very clumsy playing down the line or inside out) So... as a question for other people who play sport at a "good" level, have you ever played someone who is professional level, and if so what differences did you see? I played youth football (ie soccer) at a decent level, but played at a very ordinary level as a senior - and so its hard for to comment about that. I'd love to face an over from Brett Lee or Murali though, something like that, just to see what it was like... __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

08-23-2009, 07:23 AM	#14 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	This is a swimming question, I guess. Is there a trick to getting out of a pool with no ladder? I don't have much upper-arm strength, and my arms typically turn to jello at the end of a hard swim. So when it comes time to climb out of the lane in the university's pool, I have a difficult time pulling myself out. There are no steps. The pool is entirely too deep to jump off the bottom to give myself momentum. The concrete edge of the pool seems slippery and difficult to grip. There's a little platform at the end of the lane - one of those that real swimmers dive off of when they're racing. Last time I tried to get out of the pool I grabbed ahold of this platform and after a considerable effort was able to pull myself out. It was not fun. I was concerned that I would have to signal the lifeguard to give me a hand, but I finally pulled myself out. This was my first experience in a pool where there weren't steps or a ladder. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

08-23-2009, 12:50 PM	#16 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	Thaks, dlish. I'll try that method next time. It sounds promising. ps - That was a funny video. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

08-24-2009, 12:08 PM	#17 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	Taking things in a different direction, I use this tool regularly and thought I would share it: Google Maps Distance Calculator For runners, walkers, cyclers or anyone else traveling outside, this will allow you to plan routes and track distances. Very handy. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

08-24-2009, 05:39 PM	#18 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	interesting Martian. i just came across a similar site a few days ago for the same reason. MapMyRun.com - Map your Run, Running Routes. Find Runs Anywhere. Join our Running Community of Runners. Run GPS, GPS, Running Social Network. Google Map Run, Calculate Calories, Online Pedometer, Distance, iPhone, and More. pretty handy ive looked at your site martian. its works the same way as the one ive linked above. but the one ive given actually give you a bit more of a personalised indication of how many calories you've burnt based on your height weight age etc, as well as any elevation running during the run. its pretty nifty. __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy Last edited by dlish; 08-24-2009 at 08:35 PM..

08-24-2009, 06:47 PM	#19 (permalink)
samcol Junkie Location: Indiana	Well here's some info for baseball players who are looking to get to the next level from high school. I played some low level college, nothing impressive, but I learned what it takes. Stats really don't mean much because every high school/college plays different levels of skill etc. However, what I found in camps is there are 3 basic things that get you looked at: Arm speed, bat speed, and running speed. If you are even average at playing baseball and understand the game, excelling at any these will get you opportunities for playing at a higher level. Your frame size also does matter because they do look at the potential for you to fill out your body muscularly and thus your ability to improve in these areas. __________________ It's time for the president to hand over his nobel peace prize.