milkmilk

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Jehu Salinger

Hmm, sounds a lot like what I've been through in my last relationship. Unfortunately, she broke up with me about a month ago after being together for over 4 years. And yeah, it all kinda sounded like you described it, milkmilk: we were in love, everything worked out fine, we got along perfectly, except for the question if we really were compatible.
We also had our personality differences (like you: the sleeping, the "different lifestyles", ...), but personally, that didn't really bother me; I always found a way with coping her needs and making sure mine didn't mess things up for her.
But yeah, apparently she didn't want to go any further with this. I still feel like shit about it, and I guess this isn't really helpful for you as well. Just wanted to, you know, share the info and experience. Maybe it helps in "making up your minds" or something.

fresnelly

Brace yourself: It's a dying relationship and there's nothing you can do about it. I'm sorry.

She's compatible with you apparently, but not you with her. That means it's not going to work out in the end.

She loves you in the sense that she doesn't want to hurt you but not in as a romantic soul mate.

Be thankful for the good times you had but realize that it's time to move on.

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Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

Manic_Skafe

How old are you two? First relationships are like owning your first car, you can cherish it all you want but you lack the experience and the skill to keep it from getting dented, scratched and maybe even wrecked. This is why those first relationships rarely ever work out.

Seems she's already got one foot out of the door, let it end gracefully and part on good terms. Soon enough you'll see it for nothing more than a learning experience.

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"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

milkmilk

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Crack

Sounds like she just isn't that into you.

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Crack, you and I are long overdue for a vicious bout of mansex.

~Halx

taufel

You should talk to her one on one and let her know what exactly you feel for her and you want to continue and then let her decide what exactly she wants of you. That way you would be clear of your side. Best luck.

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Chantix

JamesB

QFT

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Anormalguy

I can't add much to what Fresnelly wrote.

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In a society where the individual is not free to pursue the truth...there is neither progress, stability nor security.--Edward R. Murrow

dd3953

my first thought was that if there is a 'but' maybe she ain't the girl of your dreams. then i remember everything has a 'but.'

after reading it in full, i have to agree with what everyone else has said. talking to her about it, letting her know, for sure, that none of those things bother you would be a great first step, but let her make the second.

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[Technically, I'm not possible, I'm made of exceptions. ]

MacGuyver

I'm going to go ahead and be the one to respectfully disagree. There's absolutely no way that you can tell in a finite manner that your relationship is dying. I am in the latter stages of this same situation, same age, etc. It's very similar.

We really started to drift apart, and after a long hard summer, she brought up 'taking a break' and I took this pretty hard, and stayed with my friends instead of at home. We were just past college but still living around the town, and with our housemates, but after only a very short time, I thought that I was over us and that things just weren't going to work out because of the way that I felt.

Really what I was doing unknowingly was ignoring the problems that were mostly my fault, however I was an idiot and I shamefully hid from her for 6 months, and now that I am dying inside everyday without her. At the time that we separated she was extremely upset and I was ignoring her. And because I ignored her and the problem for a good 3 months, and then once we were back to being social again I let the status quo last for another 3 months, and she has worked hard to move on, and now I am the one who is extremely upset over the situation.

If you truly love someone, with your entire being, it won't just go away, even over time. Make sure you really take the time to take inventory over what is happening, and understand what you need to do to fix it. In a successful relationship you can't be entirely self serving and you have to take pleasure in being able to sacrifice in some areas for each other. Don't miss out on a major occurrence in your life because of the little things that are getting in the way. Because you don't want to be kicking yourself for losing the girl that you should have married.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit.
---Aristotle

Deeds, not words, shall speak [for] me.
---John Fletcher

ironpham

Make sure you let her know how you feel about her. If she feels the same way, then awesome, you've just rekindled your relationship. Otherwise, you're on a sinking ship. But, you can at least get out knowing there are no what ifs.

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SIGNATURE.

dippin

For whatever reason, we learn from fairytales, novels, romantic comedies and so on that when you are with "the one" everything is easy. We "learn" that if its "real love" (whatever that means) things go seamlessly and effortlessly.
Reality? That is BS.

I've been with my wife for 10 years. We've lived together 6 of those. Living together means having to work at things, let some things go, fight for others, and sometimes work really hard for a compromise on something else.

And it is funny because so much of what you say apply to me (gifts, sleeping times, etc). Now, I wont go into how WE dealt with it, but we dealt with it and so can you.


Now, should you try to deal with it? Only you (and her) can answer that. Many people decide that whatever compromises they have to make are too much and not worth it, and go their separate ways. But the relationship is only "dying" if you (and her) feel that working at it is not worth it.

Gift giving, sleeping arrangements, house chores, tidiness, are all issues that virtually every single couple ever has had to deal with. It is all about how much you guys are willing to let go, and how much you guys are willing to compromise.

MuadDib

I also dissent from the majority here and have to say that the relationship isn't over, but you definitely cannot sit back and do nothing about this situation or it will be. The fact alone that she said she wishes you hadn't lived together tells me that she still loves the relationship you two had before and would like it to be that way again. Maybe that's something as simple as just not living together. On the other hand, maybe it's going to concern her that a relationship where living together brings her discomfort and awkwardness doesn't seem like it can move forward.

You've got to let her know how you feel and show that you really care about the state of your relationship. By that, I don't mean show you really care by buying her a gift or simply saying that you want to make this work. It sounds like she has been clear about what is bothering her and why. If there is something not clear then you need to ask. Once you know what's exactly the things that are bothering her, both in theory and in practice, you need to let her know that want to address her concerns and are willing to bend a little, change a little, to be the kind of boyfriend she deserves and you want to be (assuming this is true, of course). Don't let her off scott-free either though, she needs to know that her behavior is hurtful to you and that she needs to not imagine pressure where there is none. That is just another level of trust and she needs to be able to give you the benefit of the doubt that your motives are on the up-and-up otherwise what does that say about the kind of person she thinks she is with?

It seems to me that what has happened her is that by living together you have both learned a lot more about each other and, at least for her, enough of it didn't fit into the mold she created in her mind about you from dating that she is starting to reevaluate her image of the man she came to love. It's possible she already has and if that's the case then you will have a lot more work ahead of you to change that image to a good one again. In the end, you need to show her that you either are 1) still the same guy you were before you moved in; this will be difficult because you will essentially be telling her that she is just wrong about her opinion which she has been forming over some time or 2) that you truly want to be that person she wants you to be to have a successful and growing relationship AND that you are committed to doing so. But one last word of advice on this, make sure you do not lie are exaggerate your commitment. If the things she wants from you are just not things you are willing to give then let her know and talk through how important it is to both of you and why. Maybe you both just want different things for yourselves and each other now and if that's the case you are both going to have to be willing to compromise to get there together or else you both ought to split so you can get there on your own.

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"The courts that first rode the warhorse of virtual representation into battle on the res judicata front invested their steed with near-magical properties." ~27 F.3d 751

Iliftrocks

Sounds like to me that you're just not right for each other. I've let at least one woman go, who I thought was near perfect, because honestly, she didn't think I was anywhere near perfect for her.

You have got to drop this whole idea of "perfect love", or "meant for each other" BS. That's just fairy tail garbage. Truth is, you'll get over it, and if you are mature, you can still be friends and move on. (I know it is hard for the young, and it being your first relationship, but you will get over it). Eventually you may learn that sticking it out, when she doesn't return your feelings, will just make matters worse. If you really love her, (and yourself), you need to let her go, dude.

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bill hicks - "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out."

milkmilk

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genuinegirly

I'm going to be honest here.

She's communicating.
You're not.

Start listening. Start talking.
She doesn't like getting nice expensive things? Don't give them to her.
Save the money for future needs.
She feels like you expect too much?
Share your appreciation for what she does. "Wow. Thank you so much for making the bed. I wouldn't have thought of doing that. You're better at this than I am."

Take this as an exercise in communication.
All those little things you observe but say nothing about?
Yeah, you need to start mentioning those.

Men get by on body language. Women need it vocalized.
Otherwise we're left floundering wondering what in the world you're thinking. And usually (sadly enough) we assume you're thinking we're not good enough.

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"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

Manic_Skafe

In my opinion, that's where the real love begins. It's easy enough to float through the honeymoon stage because everything is so new and exciting. Once that magic wears off and you begin to realize how difficult it is to be someones lover is where love starts. That's where you begin to figure out how much the relationship is worth to you.

Good luck - listen to GG.

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"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

JumpinJesus

It could just as easily be argued that she's insecure and manipulative. I don't see where he's not communicating.

Relationships built on enabling the insecurities of the other party are doomed to failure.

Another "honest" approach here would be to tell him to find a more mature girl to have a relationship with.

I also disagree with the generalization that men get by on body language and women need it vocalized. I detest it when people do not come out and say what is on their mind. It's passive, manipulative, and childish.

The reality is that this relationship is doomed not because he's not communicating but because she's immature and unwilling to grow up enough to have an adult relationship.
This isn't a condemnation of her. I'm sure she's a very nice person, but she's not mature enough to handle a relationship yet.

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"I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

Xerxys

JJ, you do realize we've only heard one side of the story. Granted it's not a "F-U" -"NO .. F-U" kinda story but I have to say, milkmilk, your relationship has just began. Follow what GG is saying and really work on communication. It will work for the both of you.

milkmilk

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Xerxys

Good news then, I take it?

milkmilk

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Xerxys

I'm actually proud you got this far. Enjoy the progress. Growing up can either be bitch or a process of self discovery. Welcome to adulthood, I'm just getting started.

Plan9

I can smell it, too.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

milkmilk

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abaya

Echoing what Manic Skafe said... the "kissing non-stop" phase at the beginning tends to not be love, in my opinion. It's infatuation, almost an obsession of wanting to be in full-body contact with that special someone, 24-7... and all your hormones are firing and telling you, "it's love, baby!!" because they're supposed to tell you that. But to me, that's not love. Love begins when you're able to stop sucking on each other's face all the time and start working through some conflicts together, learning how to compromise, seeing the "uglier" sides of each other and still choosing to be with each other in spite of all that. That's how it develops and gets beyond the infatuation stage. It's learning to truly appreciate the other person and embrace even their negative sides, seeing them as a whole being and knowing that they see you the same way.

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And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

lostgirl

Once again abaya shows she is very wise. I would listen to what she has said.

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We're about to go through the crucible, but we'll come out the other side.
We always arise from our own ashes. Everything returns later in its changed form. - Children of Dune

milkmilk

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Toaster126

I have found in my experience and learned from various educational sources that it is often women who are more likely to communicate non-verbally or without saying what they want directly. Whether this is because of societal training, biology, whatever, is not really important to illustrate my point.

But I'm not disagreeing with you, and here's why. EVERYONE needs it vocalized. I think humans as a whole assume that everyone understands what they think, how they perceive things, and what they want way more than they actually do.

When people stop being afraid to say what they want and how they feel, relationships are more productive and a lot of major relationship problems can be avoided. Much like other shit in life, preventing problems is so much easier than fixing them, and a lot less painful.

Yes. Whether she works for YOU or not.

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"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

milkmilk

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Plan9

Ugh, this won't end well. Way too many issues to juggle and when the citizenship / money / "marriage" card enters... it's a real minefield.

...

Marriage is kinda like religion: only means as much as you personally invest in it. Yes, it is a piece paper and yet it is so much more if you treat it as such.

If you have any doubts, don't do it.

I would recommend against it because of all of the pressure factors involved. Such pressure makes for a fragile marriage.

...

Love isn't face-sucking or awesome sex... love is shoveling horseshit for months, love is cold and remote and durable like a steel basket.

Love, if ya boil it down, really sucks. There is a weird alchemy to it, though... often it is that the more you put into it, the more you get.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Poppinjay

What the hell? Well, what's done is done. If you end up in another relationship, don't say this at the beginning of it.

Getting married means filling out some legal paperwork and planning what should be the most romantic gesture of your life. Being married means you are legally bound to each other, making out wills, planning for retirement, taking out the garbage, checking each other for moles, caring day in and day out even when you don't feel like it, fighting, making up, doing something extra every now and then just to stay in her good graces, moving here and there, buying your first house together, and a million other things.

When people say it's just a piece of paper, well, that's a bunch of bullshit. There are countless intangibles that come about. I know people who aschew marriage and remain a happy couple for decades, but they're married whether it's on paper or not. It's funny, they talk about it being just a piece of paper, yet they have so many more legal documents dealing with estates, home ownership, health care....

At any rate, it doesn't sound like she knows what she wants, and I suspect she may be clinically depressed, but that's just some idiot on the internet thinking that. But it might be worth her while to check that out.

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I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

Xerxys

Ahh follow the gospel according to Poppinjay and Crompsin. Can't say it better than them really.

Marriage is not just a peice opf paper, Love is not just a four letter word. How to explain this to her will be hard seeing as she said he doesnt want to talk about it.

Plan9

Well, my joke marriage was totally a piece of paper. I remember signing it. And then I remember doing the divorce paperwork.

Common Sense (TM): That intangible part, the relationship, doesn't survive on a blown-out superfluous title. That's poofy poppycock.

A relationship will be great (or not) with or without socially approved economic bondage. Hell, it's the punishment for shoplifting in some countries!

Marriage should never be used as a bargaining chip or as an ultimatum or as a way to prove anything... nor should it considered owed or demanded.

Fuck that noise and fuck the self-righteous princesses out there that breathe it and the male douchebags that perpetuate it.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Poppinjay

I don't disagree with this, except for the term economic bondage. A relationship of forced commitment is bound to fail, but believe it or not, there are people who enter the marriage paradigm 50/50. And as mature adults.

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I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet