Catdaddy33

My daughter is a 14 yr old freshman and will be 15 this Nov was recently asked out on "date" for Sat afternoon movie. My wife will be the chaperone but the plan is to let them see the movie alone and ice cream afterwards. They both attend an academic magnet school and the encounters we've had with the young man have been positive (he was polite) so we're not worried that he's a troublemaker, and we plan on talking with his parents as well.

As a father, I'm not sure how to take all of this I remember when I was 14 and that scares me. There is also a since of loss since she I will no longer be "my little girl" as this and other boys start trolling by.

I'm trying not to freak out but dammit it's tough.... Any TFPers have any similar experiences?

abaya

Heh, I went on my first date when I was 14, with a 17 year old guy who ended up being my boyfriend for a couple of months (I was a sophomore, he was a junior)... two of my uber-conservative friends were appointed chaperones, and they came with us in the car and sat behind us in the movie. We didn't even kiss the whole time we dated, mostly because my mother was so paranoid and expecting him to be some serial killer (we were both church-going kids, which made it even funnier) that it totally freaked him out most of the time. She caught him hugging me tightly at a roller-skating rink event and that was the end of it.

So yeah, just don't be like that. Sounds like you are doing all the right things, anyway. My dad used to introduce himself to my boyfriends while holding a baseball bat that we made, which was more of a joke... but still freaked some of them out.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

lotsofmagnets

bolt on the chastity belt and tie her to a post in her room. no girl should date until she is 37.

__________________
mother nature made the aeroplane, and the submarine sandwich, with the steady hands and dead eye of a remarkable sculptor.
she shed her mountain turning training wheels, for the convenience of the moving sidewalk, that delivers the magnetic monkey children through the mouth of impossible calendar clock, into the devil's manhole cauldron.
physics of a bicycle, isn't it remarkable?

Leto

hahaha. The jarring part was in calling a grade niner a freshman. is this common in the US? I thought it was a university designation for first years or frosh.

But having said that, I know the only reason guys want to date girls. I would be investing in said chastity belt too.

Poppinjay

Yeah, we do the freshman-senior thing twice, only it's a bit more tenuous in college since there's no real course of study that designates such. You take classes until you're done. It takes four to seven years for traditional students, decades for others.

I was going to suggest getting a gun or taking out an ad in Soldier of Fortune, but if you're comfortable with caging her until 37, lots of magnets is right on.

I'm having a son, so my advice is going to be, "go get 'em!"

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

ratbastid

The father of a girl I dated in high school showed me his shotgun the first time I met him. Seriously.

Xazy

No daughter of mine should date til then, other girls I do not care as much about.

Baraka_Guru

Wait—what's a chaperone? Is that French or something?

Just kidding.

Hey, I thought the chaperone system died in the 19th century? I heard America killed it.

But, seriously, it all comes down to your daughter. If she's a smart, self-respecting girl (which I can only assume she is), you shouldn't have much to worry about, especially if you've somewhat vetted this gentleman.

Not all parents meet the boyfriend before they're an item. Not all parents ever meet the boyfriend.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

jewels

You're doing all the right things.

All you can do is know that you've raised her with strong values and trust that she'll do the right thing. If you're close, get her to talk with you about the date after so she'll know she can come to you about anything.

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

telekinetic

I'm going with shotgun and shovel, with ramblings about how much I like driving my truck out into the desert alone on the weekends.

World's King

Keep her away from guys like me.

__________________
heavy is the head that wears the crown

Catdaddy33

Thanks for the info, my wife will be at the mall not escorting them around so not a true chaperone thats the only word I could think of.

If it were up to me, she wouldn't date until she moved out of the house, but I was outvoted in that one. The shotgun approach would more than likely get me arrested at the mall, and that would be bad. I'm 6'1" and 158 lbs so I hardly look intimidating, but maybe I can hire some goon to intimidate...

I didn't meet my wife's parents until our 3-4th date, and the only reason I did was she was still living at home.

All in all, I don't think I'm worried about this particular date its just a huge step for her into adulthood and I'm the one that's not ready for it...

Jinn

Be comforted by the fact that it's still relatively benign. You won't want to know what she's doing and where she's putting things once she makes it to college.

I'm only joking with you because your situation scares the piss out of me, enough so that I pray that I never have any female children.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

snowy

Yep, and get your wife to do the same. My parents were always my best confidantes (still are), and as a result, they pretty much always knew what was going on with me in high school. They trusted me to make good decisions, and for the most part, I did.

Just keep the lines of communication open, and try not to worry too much about it. Letting your daughter subtly know this is hard for you is not a bad move either; my dad always joked about greeting my first date with his rifle, and it let me know how much he cared. Strange, but true.

As for Jinn's statement above me: That's one of the main reasons my parents allowed me a lot of freedom as a teen--I had no set curfew and my parents allowed me to stay out all night for a couple things my senior year (like a rave in downtown Portland). They wanted to give me the chance to test my freedom with a safety net; I always knew I could call Mom and Dad if something bad happened.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

abaya

Okay, are men seriously that over-protective of their daughters, or are you all exaggerating in order to make us laugh? It's a little alarming to hear how many dads want to lock their daughters up and never let her anywhere near a guy until she's way beyond puberty... do you really all feel that way?

I grew up with an extremely over-protective mother (she was very scared about the prospect of me losing my virginity, starting at 14--not that she had to worry, I was 24 )... but my dad was really quite chill about the whole thing. Or at least, that's what he led me to believe. I never imagined fathers as being the ones to freak out about their daughter's virginity or whatever... at least not in this day and age. I know you all feel like, "I don't want her near a guy, because I remember what I was like at that age," but seriously... would you really let that fear get in the way of your daughter growing up and having intimate experiences? And do you really think that your daughter doesn't have the same desires that those boys do?

I guess what bothers me is the assumption that daughters are "sugar and spice and everything nice" for their daddies, while boys are assumed to be out for one thing only, and that girls would never think about rebelling. Bit of a pedestal, isn't it? Why not accept that your daughter is normal and will have human feelings and desires, just like your sons might, and that neither should be repressed/policed?

(This is not to say that you shouldn't educate your children about safe sex, risks, etc... but just to accept both genders as being sexually equal, and that girls have just as much curiosity about sex as boys do.)

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

ShaniFaye

well IM not a man and I want to lock up my daughter til she's at least 30

no way in hell would Manda have gone unsupervised to a movie at 14, she wont at 15 either....when she turns 16 she can date, alone, just like her mama

and then her mama will sit and think about ALL the things she did when she was dating when she was 16

and cringe in fear lol

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Daniel_

OMG - I hope my daughter doesn't meet a guy like me when she's the age I was. Urgh, I was evil and coniving, and I was one of the polite good ones...

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

ShaniFaye

yeah and I was considered a "good girl" and there was no one more sneaky and evil than me lol

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

World's King

Quoted for Truth...

__________________
heavy is the head that wears the crown

thespian86

Exactly, exactly, exactly! You aren't ready for it. But, the crux of this problem always being this, she is becoming a woman. Oops.

I guess you just have to trust that you did a good job raising her, and that you will continue to raise her in a fashion that is fitting to her age, and that she will continue to be a good person. If she is at a magnet school, I'd say she has enough pressure as is; let her go for it. Obviously she isn't a bad kid.

__________________
EX: Whats new?
ME: I officially love coffee more then you now.
EX: uh...
ME: So, not much.

krwlz

You never know about that gun approach. I had a girlfriend whose father did that to me. I asked him if I could see it, as my father had a very similar gun. I owned the next model up.

After a moment of awkwardness, her mother pointed out that I could probably shoot better than him.

As far as the daughter... I'm with the chastity belt and chains idea. Barring that... Trust is a tough thing huh?

FlatLand Flyer

I am not a father, but lock her up.

The moment you are living right now is pretty much the exact reason I do not want a daughter.

I know what I was like when I first started dating. I was completely shy and could not even talk to girls, or get their subtle and not so subtle hints. My first girlfriend was not a virgin and she was 15. She made all the first moves (and I mean all of them). She came from a semi-religious family, good parents, good student. We were fucking inside of two weeks and she had showed me her tits one of the first times we were alone together driving in my truck. I ended up marrying her. She is an attorney and a really good person.


All that said, I cringe thinking of my unborn daughter being like her mother.

Willravel

Why? Just because she's 14?

Catdaddy, you know that you've taught her well. She knows right from wrong. Give her some mace and enjoy the fact that she's turning into a young woman.

abaya

I still don't get it. So what, exactly, would you want her to be like? Mother Teresa? How about the rest of you?

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

FlatLand Flyer

Men are protective of their women by nature. At least I am. I don't want a guy making a move on my wife and I sure as hell do not want a 15 or 16 year old guy who's dick gets hard when the wind blows going after my daughter.

I know it is the natural progression of life, but don't as k me to like it.

Ayashe

It sounds like you are doing everything right. At 14 I think most kids are lacking a bit of common sense and maturity. A double-date or chaperoned date, group even is about all I would allow for my daughter (who happens to be the same age). I don't think I am unreasonably protective but, I do remember the hormones flaring at that age with little sense of consequence.

It isn't a bad idea to start reinforcing the whole if you are going to have sex... ideals. Whatever your personal beliefs are, I am not going to suggest them to you. I am all for the age 37 rule, but I highly doubt I am capable of enforcing that.

Catdaddy33

Thanks for all the replies and encouragement. As time passes between the initial shock that she is going out, I feel more at ease. It sucks that she has to grow-up but I'm not sure if its she's growing up or I'm getting older.

We try and be open about everything that our parents were not, alcohol, drugs, and sex. We don't really hide anything but we also don't go for full disclosure, and hope that we can have open dialogues like snowy mentioned. So far that seems to be the case, although she tells her mom more than she does me, which is expected. And yes, a can of pepper spray will be a must buy in the near future to ward off those "guys like me" types.

Poppinjay

Abaya, you will not ever get it, just like men don't get .... well... a lot of stuff.

There are things like toilet cleanliness that we get over time. There are things like telephone conversations that we grudgingly get eventually.

But eyelash crimpers, preferred sanitary napkins, cleaning when things are not noticeably dirty, and bangles we do not get.

We get The Bangles, but not bangles.

It's just a thing.

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

abaya

Uh, well... thanks. But I still want to get it, because I never encountered this kind of behavior from my own dad, and ktsp doesn't have very strong opinions about it, either (though of course we don't have a daughter yet--but he wasn't "one of those guys to keep away from," so maybe that has something to do with it).

I "got" my mom being paranoid about men... that seemed normal to me, because she was a woman, and she was scared of strange men. I still think she overreacted, and I didn't like it... but I see that it did more good than harm. I didn't feel "owned" by her.

I guess what I dislike about fathers wanting to lock up their daughters and "protect their innocence," is that it's just so much like the old days of daughters being their father's "property" until they were "given" to their husbands in marriage. Is that really, truly how you guys want it to be? You don't want any man touching her until she gets married?

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

ShaniFaye

Abaya I think you're taking it to literal...just like I'd never lock Amanda up til she was 30, neither would the fathers. You're not a parent, if you ever are you will understand better what we mean. It has nothing to do with being property or being given away. Its no different than the joy/fears we have on our kids first day of school, or riding the bus alone, letting them stay home alone the first time, sending them to college etc. Its the marking of a passage from one stage of our child's life to another. I think one thing that is universal among normal parents is the apprehension of our children entering a new phase and our ingrain sense of wanting them to stay young so we can protect them.

The guys can correct me if Im wrong of course....

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

abaya

Thanks Shani, though that was why I was asking the question in the first place... to see how much the men actually mean what they are talking about (e.g. how much they would really interfere in their daughter's lives, if they could get away with it).

Of course, I can't imagine anyone literally locking up their daughters until they are 30. But I never hear about parents wanting to lock up their sons, even as a joke, so it just bothers me somehow that there is so much emphasis on the daughters being "protected" while the sons are usually just advised to "keep it wrapped" if they must, but otherwise have fun, etc. I don't see daughters as being any more "precious" than sons... I certainly wasn't, since I was probably more devious than the average boy (as you yourself mentioned, hehe) from a much younger age. My "sweetness" was gone before my parents even had time to mark the transition... if I ever was "sugar and spice" in the first place.

I guess what I am wondering about is not the desire to protect your children, in general... I understand that, from the point of view that you are espousing. But I don't understand the unequal view towards sons and daughters--that daughters are more "precious" somehow. It bothers me, that's all.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Poppinjay

I think if my son turns out to be half as unnerving as I was, I will be concerned for his romantic woes and emotional well being.

Realistically, if he were a she, I would probably be relieved that the sex talk would not fall upon my agenda.

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

Jinn

I get this. It's the complete antithesis of modern feminist theory and it's really a regressive rather than progressive behavior. I can say that intellectually I want to avoid this "Purity Ball", protect her virginity like property Father nonsense. But when it comes to down to the base emotion, the raw gut feeling I get, it just makes me uncomfortable. As unfair as it may be, I have the perception that young women are more easily manipulated to do something they don't want to do than their male peers, and likewise more often taken advantage of. Likewise, there is a broad spectrum of a woman's sexuality from whore to prude, and if I were given the choice I'd like to ensure that my daughter at least aimed higher in the spectrum than lower, particularly since her sexual behavior would still under my indirect control as a minor.

The other issue is that many VISIBLE male behaviors are manifestations of far -far-far worse internal thoughts, and men are capable of understanding the raw (and unfortunate) carnality of recently pubescent young men, as they were there, once. Women can see the displayed behavior, but only hazard a guess at what the young boy is really thinking when he says that they're just "going to a movie."

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

abaya

Well, this is honest, and thank you for that--it's more insightful than a knee-jerk response. I appreciate hearing more about the "raw gut feeling" and your awareness of the perception you have of women being "weaker" (more prey to persuasion). I don't honestly know how accurate that perception is, as I am unaware of any studies on the topic--I'd be interested in hearing what the rest of people think around here. Do all of you fathers trust your sons' judgement better than your daughters', because you think that your daughter is "weak willed" and more susceptible to being taken advantage of? Fair enough--and certainly, I'd feel the same way--but would you feel the same way about your sons? If not, why?

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Catdaddy33

Jinn nailed it and much better than I could actually write.

I don't have a son so I can't speak to how I would react but I think the ole double standard applies for many with the "boys can take care of themselves" attitude. My folks turned me loose and had no curfew as long as I called in to tell them where I was, of course I was never where I said I was...

vanblah

My daughter will be 7 in about two weeks so hopefully I have a while to really "worry" about it.

I hope that by the time she's 14 that her mother and I will have done a good job of raising her. I hope that she has a good self-image and a healthy respect for herself. Then I won't have to worry about her going out on dates with teenage boys.

If we have NOT done a good job of raising her, then by the time she's 14 it won't matter anymore. We can "forbid" her from going out and try to "lock her up" all we want but it will only cause her to hate us and it will make her life miserable.

If so many fathers are worried about some guy taking advantage of their daughters then I have to wonder: did YOU take advantage of a teen-age girl when you were young? I mean REALLY?

abaya

Well, that's basically what I'm getting at... and thanks also for admitting this honestly.

Can we as modern parents (or at least for me, future parent ) get beyond this double standard somehow?... either by being more strict with our sons, or less strict with our daughters? I really don't see much use for the double standard, other than to reinforce traditional gender expectations that often persist into adulthood.

Catdaddy--my parents put no curfew on me, and I had my own car from age 16--my parents really did not care where I was, because it was usually at church. Thing is, I was a Jesus freak, so there was no way in hell anyone would be persuading me to do anything against those morals (I converted my own parents). However, I don't want to have to send my children to church just so that they can become strong-willed and resist peer-pressure, and/or to learn self-discipline and moderation when thinking about having sex, etc. What alternatives can we offer children of both genders, equally?

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

snowy

I don't know about that. My dad certainly didn't have that attitude; if he did, he never expressed it to me beyond as a joke (and I knew it was a joke). The expectation was that I could be trusted to take care of myself, and I did. I was raised to be able to take care of myself, so I don't think my parents ever had to worry about some guy trying to take advantage of me. I think they worried more about me kicking some guy in the nuts if he tried.

And abaya, I barely went to church at all as a teen, but still didn't give in to any kind of peer pressure. Never drank in high school beyond what my parents allowed me to have at home. That rave I went to? I was the only one in the group whose parents knew where she was, and the only one who stayed sober all night. I didn't get intimate with any guy until after high school. The key was that my parents were there for me, all the time, willing to talk to me about anything and everything. But above all, they trusted me to do the right thing, and because we were so close, I wouldn't have violated or broken that trust for anything in the world.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

abaya

HA!! Yeah, exactly.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Catdaddy33

We don't attend church and she wasn't raised going to church, we did leave that option open if she wanted to attend, but in the end I think it has to do with trying to instill good values and self-confidence and it can be done without religion. She has good friends that are all from strong homes and seem to have good values. So many things can go wrong along the road to adulthood. I'm not sure if she would to the extreme of kicking a guy in the balls, but I think she would stand up for herself, but until she's put in a position, it's hard to tell what she would do..if I knew the answer to that I would feel even better..