RetroGunslinger

I'd say even that is overstating it. I'm a very, very, very to the ninth power lazy person. All I tend to do is surf the Net and watch movies, when I should be studying or working on my various projects, and I procrastinate like nobody's business. Hell, I have to memorize an entire script by around 9:45 tomorrow morning, and I'm about to go to bed after spending my time on here....


... HOWEVER, I still find it very easy to cook up a steak, or throw some oatmeal and a salad together. I can understand sometimes not having the time to do these things, I've been in those situations where all you have time for is a quick stop by the King, but that shouldn't be every second of a person's life. If you don't have enough time to microwave oatmeal or ramen (not especially healthy, but not a butt-in-bun either) then you don't have the time to breathe.

So, using my own lovely little logic, if a person is too lazy to cook or at least look for and buy relatively healthy food, than that person might as well sit down and die, because in my eyes they're completely useless and a waste of air.

There, I said it.

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Ustwo

I don't see how this confuses anything.

People are machines, calories in calories out, + = weight gain, - = weight loss.

I mean I can't be overly shocked that people who may have a negative self image would be depressed.

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canuckguy

I generally feel bad for people who can't control their weight due to health issues.

If your overweight because you like to eat and don't exercise I have no issues with it beyond the extra cost that it brings to our health care system.

as stated before, it is hard to tell these groups apart so i don't discriminate, not that i would be rude or a jackass to someone based on weight.

Martian

That's a total cop-out. 'Blame the industry' is another way of boycotting personal responsibility. Regardless of the accuracy of the argument ('chemical' does not equate to unhealthy any more than 'organic' equates to healthy, despite what the marketing people at Trader Joe's tell you) it still doesn't address the fact that the vast majority of obese people do have healthier lifestyle options that they simply forego.

Respectfully disagree with that. Machines are precisely what people are; incredibly complex ones, granted, but organic machines all the same.

You're right, the formula isn't as simple as calories in/calories out, but modern food supplies allow us to effectively reduce it to that level in the vast majority of the cases. There are exceptions to every rule and this one is no exception; all the same, I'm generally inclined to blame the individual unless evidence contraindicates it.

I'm a big believer in personal responsibility. Depression is crippling and difficult to fight, but millions of people manage that. Using it as an excuse does nobody any good. If a person is suffering from untreated depression which makes weight management difficult, my first question is going to be why they aren't seeking treatment. If they are and are still overweight, then we're right back at square one.

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I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Fotzlid

What are the long term effects of said chemicals and hormones? Is it possible that these things are the root of the obesity problem? The food choices of today are quite different from the choices of only 20 years ago. Processed foods are much more prevalent than they were a generation ago.

Martian

'Long-term effects' in my experience is generally code for 'we can't actually prove this is harmful.'

Proper procedure dictates that until we have evidence that there are long-term negative repercussions associated with any of the preservatives or other chemicals used to make food cheaper and safer for mass consumption, we should assume there are not. Furhtermore, probing that one chemical additive has negative effects does not prove they all do.

The rest is marketing spin to justify paying more for 'organic' foods that are really no different nutritionally than their non-'organic' alternatives.

There is a diet (the hacker diet) that is based on the concept of losing weight by eating things like frozen dinners. It works entirely based on (surprise!) calorie control.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Ustwo

You mean 20+ years ago when this man made his career?



Maybe I'm just gifted in that when I start to get fat, and I have now and then, I am able to resist these chemicals and hormones and just put less food in my mouth.

I'm sorry but my sympathy is pretty much nil outside of some VERY rare conditions which prevent people from properly breaking down their own body fat.

My wife and I watch our weights constantly, its easy to get fat, it takes effort to stay thin. 100 years ago, work was harder, nutrition was harder to come by and even then you could buy things like.....



Its only our relative wealth, cheaper foods, and sedentary life styles that makes it accessible to everyone, especially the poor who are not known for making good life decisions.

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Derwood

yes, a lot of packaged food is bad for you, but this smacks of more blame-shifting. I eat the same super market food that most overweight people do, yet I'm 6'3" and weigh just 165 lbs. how? genetics, partly, but also trying to keep active, not snacking much, and not overeating at meals

Fotzlid

That is the classic definition of yoyo dieting.

So according to some of you, the only reason for the obesity epidemic is simply that a large portion of this country's populace has become slothful cheetos swilling couch potatos who are allergic to sit-ups.
I know more than a few obese people who are quite active and eat less than I do.
Poor choices are a part of it but I think there is more to it than that.

Ustwo

Its the classic definition of me not caring that much, eating more than I should and then saying 'ok fine, lets work on this'. We are talking + or - 5 lbs. Its more of a negative feed back system.

Yes pretty much. Not for every single person out there, but for the vast, vast majority.

I used to work as a waiter. I didn't see to many obese people ordering the salad with light vinaigrette.

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JumpinJesus

I don't buy the argument that it's hard to eat healthy. Seriously, when you walk into almost every single grocery store out there, the first section you come to is the produce section. Have you checked the prices there lately? It doesn't take Daddy Warbucks to buy from the produce section. I think it takes more effort to eat like a pig than it does to eat healthy.

And the whole genetic thing? I've never met a fat person who is fat because they eat a lot. Every one of them claims it's genetic. Even if it is, the simple laws of physics dictate that in order to gain that much weight, you have to ingest a certain number of calories. Fewer calories = less weight. It's not rocket science.

Fotzlid, first I'd say that doesn't it say something about our society that we can say something like, "I know more than a few obese people" as simply a condition of a sentence? Second, I'd surmise that the people who are fat but eat less than you are more than likely eating when no one's around. I'd venture a guess that they're highly ashamed of their eating habits which is why they hide it and deny they eat what they do.

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Fotzlid

Disparage away people. Must be nice looking down from those high horses.

MSD

Don't tell me fat is beautiful. I'm fat, It's my fault, and I'm embarrassed to take my shirt off at the beach because I did this to myself. Don't tell me it's OK, that I'm discriminated against and shouldn't be. It's not OK, I have high blood pressure, I'll be diabetic by the time I'm 30 if I don't lose weight quick, and it sure as hell isn't a pretty sight when I'm standing there naked and whoever sees me is sober. I lost a bunch of weight, I was halfway to where I needed to be, then I stopped giving a shit again and realized months later that I had undone all the weight loss that had made me healthier, more attractive, and more comfortable about myself.

I keep one of my favorite shirts on my bureau under the mirror, and once or twice a week I put it on, see that I still don't look good in it like I did when I was 30 pounds lighter, and tell myself that I'm not just going to go get one in a bigger size because that would be taking the easy way out. I won't be happy until I fit into that shirt again. I still won't be in good shape when I fit into it, but I'll be halfway there. that's my motivation and reminder.

Martian

Maybe we should all be crying lots of big salty tears for fat people, but when I look around me and see people with real problems that they have no control over it's hard to get too worked up because somebody ate too many cheeseburgers and now they can't get a date to the prom. Don't get me wrong, I meant it when I said I'm apathetic on the matter. It's up to each individual to live his or her life as best deemed fit, and if your idea of a night off involves a pizza and six and a half hours of television, then by all means go for it. I'm just not buying the discrimination argument. A man who has ALS and is wheelchair bound is a man whose rights I'll fight for. A man who supersized too many times and feels like he's being excluded because he can't fit through normal-sized doorways anymore can fuck off and take up jogging, so far as I'm concerned. And a man who is overweight because he has hypothyroidism is still an idiot for not going to his doctor and/or finding a better one when said doctor is unable to help him manage his condition and his weight effectively.

Not a lot of people are willing to jump to the defence of smokers' rights to light up anywhere they damn well choose and anyone who will is also an idiot. As a former smoker I can state quite categorically that smoking is bad and that while people are free to do it or not do it as they see fit, they have no right to force others to accommodate them because of their choice. Why should overweight people be any different?

You seem to think this view makes me elitist. If that's the case, then quite frankly I'm perfectly comfortable with that. After all, at least I'm a thin elitist.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

TheNasty

I think this thread naturally slanted toward the discrimination part of the discussion because it is a lot easier to reject than the hatred/ridicule part.

Hatred/Ridicule of over-weight people in the United States is real, and there isn't any effort, or at least very little effort, to change that.

Most people are fat because of personal choices.

All people choose how to treat others, and some (a very large some) choose to treat people who are over-weight different than everyone else. People in this thread have gone out of their way to mention that *they* aren't fat. Why is that?

Why does it matter?

I'm not over-weight nor do I smoke or drink, look at me I'm really special!

If I was only good looking... the world would be mine!

Slims

There is a direct correlation between body-mass and daily calorie intake. The average 300 pounder eats about twice what the average 150 pounder eats. Some people have big bodies, and sure, some people put on weight more easily (because they find it easier to eat lots), but at the end of the day you still make that decision: Should I supersize that?

To suggest that being fat is anything but a personal choice is misguided. It is physically impossible to put on fat unless you are eating more than your body needs.

By accepting that being fat is somehow not the fault of the fat person, you are taking a big, jiggly step towards forcing non-fat people to help cover the increased medical costs associated with the obese, as well as making it a disability (extra wide airline seats for the double-wide asses at no extra charge, etc.)

If you want to be fat, or if you want to eat disguisting quantities of food more than you want to be thin, then fine, but don't try to blame your weight problems on anyone but yourself.

For instance:
We have a big guy on my team. He broke his arm and was in a school for a couple months where he wrote reports, ran out to get fast food daily, and did very little excercise. When he finally got back, he was 270+ lbs and looked fat. He started eating right and working out everyday and in the last three months he has lost 40 lbs and he now looks ripped. He made a personal decision and corrected the problem, there is no reason others can't do the same.

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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill

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surferlove007

Personally, I've grown up exercising and being active, so for me it's very difficult NOT to be able to work out. My parents however have made it known that I got very lucky when it came to genetics.

My mothers side of the family has genetics playing into weight problems. My mom has been struggling with her weight nearly her whole life except when she was in the military, Air Force. For her, a size 12 is excellent. She's currently a 16, so about 30 more pounds and she'll feel happy with herself. That's just how the Gardner side works. Genetics make losing weight very difficult. Many of her family members on the upper side of the hill on their age have many problems, high cholesterol, blood pressure, borderline diabetic etc.
My mom works out about 4 times a week with her homemade workout tape, she jogs around the living room and it makes her feel better because she's being active. She watches what she eats and does the best she can while also performing as a Director on the Board of Directors for Lockheed Martin.

When it comes to luck, my dads side has very skinny people on it. Fast metabolisms are the calling card of the Thompsons. My sister and I were fortunate to get my dads genetics and therefore we're both tall and slim and don't have weight problems. My mom always tells me she's so glad we both got my dads genes when it came to the weight arena. I can't help but feel bad for my mom though, I wonder how she feels because my sister and I turned out slim. I know she says shes happy for us...but it does make me wonder if she's a bit jealous too. *shrug*

I have more pity for those larger folks standing in front of me at fast food restaurants. I feel sorry for them and the choices they're making, the same choices they're probably reinforcing with their children and pushing into a vicious cycle. It's very sad. I've heard of people mentioned that the next generation of children will be dying before their parents because of an alarming obesity rate. The problems associated with obesity etc. Recently I've been taming my love of sweets and not allowing myself to just eat whatever I like even though it doesn't really matter at this point, eventually it will.

I don't really discriminate fat people...unless they're drowning in my pool and I have to save them. One would think that since fat floats more than muscle they would have built in buoys.

The attitude of I don't give a damn how I look, what I eat and how I display myself is unacceptable. I strive to look the best I can and it's very confusing as to why more people don't. Growing up and the environment you're raised in probably has more to do with it than anything, that and letting kids buy French fries for lunch and other crappy foods. It seems nowadays that the healthy food costs more and unhealthy food less. A trend shows that lower income families tend to have more obese people because a lack of education on the subject as well a tolerance toward allowing their family to live that way.

I know I used to buy chocolate milk, an ice cream cone, and French fries in middle school. I totally got away with it too. I believe schools need to make a step toward changing what they offer for lunches, if nothing else that can make a huge impact. Also this shortening recess nonsense needs to go too. Kids need to run and play and get exercise. Education is the key.
It's nice to see that TFP has so many people who are intolerant of accepting this "Fat Acceptance Movement"...it's utterly ridiculous if it's not related to genetics. I would never accept such a thing into my life, I know the same for James too.
Just my opinion.

Slims

I will concede that genetics may make loosing weight more difficult. However, if you eat fewer calories than your body burns, you will lose weight.

Your mom may put on weight easy, and she may be unable to excercise (though I feel that is usually just an excuse given by people who don't want to work around whatever difficulties they have), but if she doesn't overeat she won't get fat.

My parents are both fat. Both never work out, and both eat significantly more than I do at each sitting. Unfortunately, they don't have anybody to blame but themselves. They know better than to blame the world though, because if they were willing to eat less they would lose the weight.

I started putting on fat about a year ago, and when I realized what was happenning, I corrected my eating habits and started running a lot as well as lifting. I lost the fat and put on some muscle.

I do not deny that there are different body-types, just that there is no excuse for obesity, to get fat you have to be both lazy and weak-willed.

As far as discrimination: I don't care perse whether someone is fat. I do care that someone would take such poor care of their single most important possession (their body) and would so show little self discipline. If you can't be trusted to take care of yourself, how can I trust you to take care of others? Should I trust you to care for my children, or will you pass on your *wonderful* lifestyle tips? If you don't have enough self control to push yourself away from the dinner table, how can I trust you to put in the extra hours when a job gets difficult? Additionally, in my mind being fat is similar to being a crack addict...both significantly shorten your life expectancy, are a personal choice and make you a poor investment for anything long term.

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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

Hain

All points I would have made have already been made. Therefore...


This is the funniest thing I have recently read from you Ustwo. Just genius. I am still laughing.

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mixedmedia

I'd like to see where in the OP's article it is stating that fat people want you to 'feel sorry' for them. (not talking to you gg.)

I keep seeing that in the posts up there. 'I will not 'feel sorry' for fat people.' 'I will not cry for fat people.'

Who's asking you to cry for them?

********************************************************

And here's another thing. All this talk about stuffing things into your pie hole reminds me of the other side of this equation which is another situation concerning people and their pie holes.

I had to sit through two hours of harassment training at my new job yesterday while I watched video vignettes of people acting like assholes. These folks who apparently need to be protected from the feelings of fat people and others who attract their attention.

I would just like to remind you all that what comes out of your pie hole is a choice, too. And if all you motherfuckers who think you're so witty with all the disparaging and discriminatory things you 'think up' about other people would just shut the fuck up, I wouldn't have to sit for two hours in a darkened room being told not to act like you.

Thank you.

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highthief

Exactly - I shop at the supermarket too, and if I did not watch what I eat and did not exercise I'd be 25-30 pounds heavier than I am today. I eat a certain amount of processed foods and simple sugars - but in selected and limited quantities.

In the large majority of cases, yes.

Man, just look at people's average weight prior to WW2 and today - nowhere near the number of fat people back then.

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Lasereth

I seriously just LOLed at work

jewels

Tolerance, yes. Acceptance, no.

As one of those who teeters from time to time, I know it's my own damned fault. One may be genetically predisposed to weight gain, but accepting that as one's fate is not right.

I do get the concept of accepting or loving self despite the weight gain/fat and I think that's appropriate. One has to care enough about themselves in order to feel motivated to do something about it.

I think that maybe that's the cry for acceptance. If others ridicule and look down on you, it makes it all that much more difficult to muster up some self-esteem.

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echo5delta

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Lasereth

I suppose I should put in a few comments since I'm a prime suspect in the fat case:

I'll make some points that are basically rambling with no coherent structure because there is no overall structure to what I'm about to say, just some insights from me growing up.

My dad's side of the family (the males in particular) are all fat. When I was born, I was fat. Growing up, I was fat because my parents let me eat whatever I want, and I suppose my genetics from my dad allowed me to overeat without getting sick. Growing up as a kid I was active but I was still fat in the stomach region.

Now that I'm an adult, the real fun comes in. I was about 210 pounds at 5'10" when I went to college. I wasn't disgustingly fat but I wasn't skinny and muscular either. Throughout college I had a meal card. Whilst growing up I had no limiters on what I ate and my parents never told me it was a bad thing to eat until you're full. Back to my genetics telling me to eat until I was full: I ate and ate in college until I was full and ballooned up to 275 pounds. I ate myself into that position. Completely and totally my fault.

Now here's the part that no one likes to talk about: remember my dad's side of the family being fat? Genetics made me have a huge propensity to be fat <I>and</I> have an extremely hard time losing weight. I graduated college, hated being fat and decided to not live like my dad and my grandpa. I went from eating 5,000 calories per day (that's how much it took me to be full) to 800-1,500 calories per day which is absolute pure torture. I've tried losing weight in the past...going down to 2,500 per day from 5,000 has little effect. Extreme measures must be taken to lose weight with my body.

Now the part where this ties in with fat people in general: imagine you're fat. That's right skinny people, imagine that you're 275 pounds. Put yourself in a fat person's shoes. You've made bad decisions about food and now you're fat. You've decided to lose weight and today is the day to start.

You stop eating as much and start exercising every single day. Cardio, weight training, eating 1500 calories per day...except something is wrong. You're not losing weight. Nothing. You are going through maniacal pain in your stomach daily from craziness-inducing hunger and then following it up with an hour daily of excruciating, joint-busting, puke-inducing exercise in order to make your body healthy. Except nothing is happening. You are struggling to make a difference and it's not working. 1 month goes by. No weight loss. 2 months. 3 months. 4 months. Every day you are driven insane by hunger, driven insane by the pain of working out as a fat person and you are getting no result.

Most people don't have the willpower to continue. Have the skinny people bashing fat people who can't control themselves ever thought about the possibility that losing weight isn't as simple as eating less and exercising? Once you're fat it's not simple to lose weight. Eat less calories than your body needs and you lose weight. Physics, right? Pure logic, right? Wrong. Not every fat person's body reacts this way.

It took me 4 months before I lost a single pound. After 4 months my body was ready to give up its epic struggle with being fat. 8 months later I had lost 70 pounds.

Here's an even more entertaining addition: working out and exercising had no part of it. I lost the first 50 pounds without exercising because exercising had no effect on my body.

So before the skinny people who lose weight easily bash a fat person next time, think to yourself: what if they've tried losing weight for 3 months with no result? What if they must endure mental anguish (food becomes your savior when you're fat, your best friend, you're basically killing your stomach and your friend by losing weight) and physical torture for months on end with no result just to <B>begin</B> the weight loss process?

Those strong enough will endure and those with weaker minds will not.

I know every fat person is not like this. I realize that most people are very susceptible to exercise and eating better. But some are not, and I'm defending them right here.

I've lost 70 pounds and gained 10-15 pounds of muscle so far. I eat 1,000 calories per day. Sometimes 1,500 and occasionally 2,000 if I want to be a "fatass" that day. I eat vegetables, meat, fruit, you name it. I never eat sweets. NEVER. I eat a dessert maybe once every 3 months. I eat less and more healthy than most skinny fit people and guess what? I'm still fat.

That's right, I'm still fat and I eat better than you and go to the gym THIRTEEN times a week (twice at work daily, and 3 times a week after work). I live a healthier lifestyle than you, try harder to work out, and care about my health more than the skinny people that bash fat people and I'm STILL fat. I could lose another 50 pounds but it's just not happening.

Now that I've rambled, I suppose the point of this was to show that the fat-bashers don't know the whole story about many fat people. They may be healthier than you but their body is EXTREMELY resistant to change due to genetics and a lifelong detrimental effect caused by parents that let you overeat. Some fat people can't lose weight without an epic 4 month long struggle before a single pound is lost that makes you depressed because there is nothing to look forward to anymore (it used to be food!).

Now to all the people at work that bring in Bojangles biscuits every morning and go out to eat for every meal of every day and have to struggle to get up the stairs: I hate you. I hate you for mocking my efforts and leading everyone else to believe that I'm fat because I eat too much just like everyone in this thread believes.

The_Jazz

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highthief

Lasereth while I respect what you had to go through to achieve your results, let's respond to a couple of the points you made:

1) Most people here have qualified their responses with the understanding that a certain percentage of people have a truly valid medical reason for being fat or having a hard time losing weight. To SOME extent, you fall into this category in that losing weight was very, very difficult - on the other hand, you also admit you did it to yourself by stuffing your face into adulthood.

2) Many people "against the fatties" as it were, have been overweight themselves and conquered it. When I started my current job I had gotten up to 185 pounds at 5'8" and about 27% bodyfat) - I got back to being disciplined with my exercise program and with my eating habits and dropped 25 pounds and sit at a lean 160 now at 15% body fat. So it's not like a lot, maybe even most, people haven't been there to some extent albeit not to the extreme situation you found yourself in.

Good luck with maintaining your condition.

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Ustwo

So you were eating less than it required to operate your body, yet you lost no weight for the first four months? I'd be interested to know where the energy to keep you going came from.

Undoubtedly after a life of bad habits taught from birth it would be extra hard to lose weight, but early in your endeavor you were doing something wrong which made it harder.

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little_tippler

I have to say that I see mixedmedia's point.

It's all very well to talk about willpower, but nobody is perfect. Some people can't shut their mouths before they say snide, hurtful things. Other's can't control their overeating. And the list goes on.

I think tolerance is a good thing in most situations, though I am guilty of the opposite on occasion. We all have things that push our buttons.

I don't think people who are overweight (not fat) should accept that they are that way and just leave it at that. I think that if it's affecting their health they should do something about it. When we speak of overweight, that means that a person has more body fat than is healthy.

If you are just "fat", as in you're not thin as a rake, then I think it's fine. People come in all shapes and some people aren't meant to be skinny. I don't discriminate people for being fat. And yes I feel some compassion for those people who can't lose extra weight, because of related health issues. I also have some sympathy for people who can't find it in them to stop damaging their body that way. I have less compassion for people who don't at least try.

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Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
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UKking

I think it's a bunch of BS for people that are in denial.

There is a difference between being thin and being fit. A fit person doesn't look like a bone rack, nor do they starve themselves or yo-yo diet for a quick fix. They eat well and exercise daily even when they are not at the gym. Bringing the dog out of walk on a lazy Sunday afternoon is still exercise, it's just not regimented like a gym routine may be.

Our weekly grocery bill is about $75.00 a week ( down from $120.00) and it consists of lots of fruit, veggies and clean cuts of meats. It's more expensive to buy pre-packaged junk and the junk doesn't go as far as healthy foods do as people tend to eat more of it. I make spaghetti with a meatless sauce and we get at least 2 meals out of it.

Cynthetiq

NYC just instituted a new law wherein any food establishment with 15 or more stores nationwide will have to put calorie information on their menus.

I have never counted my total calories for the day, but I know that I can have a McMuffin, hasbrowns, oj for breakfast, Pizza Hut Personal Pan Pizza for lunch, and Denny's Chicken Fried Steak, mashed potatoes, with peas and carrots for dinner. In between having a snack of a Snickers Bar, Doritos Nacho Chips, and always having with a Coca-Cola when I'm thirsty.

The problem comes into play when I try to do that every single day, 365 days a year, year in year out.

I have been going to specialty food, processesing and packaging shows for the past couple of years. I must tell you that I have learned an awful lot about how food is prepared and the holy grail of shelf stable >6 months. The longer something is shelf stable the better the opportunity to sell it is.

Food companies that specialize in taking products and making them more shelf stable. This is why when you read the labels you'll see extra chemical ingredients. Those same ingredients are included in many of the food service products we eat from the corporate chains.

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Lasereth

You're not the only one.

?

JumpinJesus

I'm trying to understand where much of the defensiveness is coming from. I don't see anyone here bashing fat people. I see a lot of people saying that if you can't take responsibility for your own actions, then don't expect the rest of us to accommodate your inability to exhibit more self-control, and that means that if you became fat because you didn't stop yourself from eating to the point of gluttony, then it's not our job to treat you as if you have a disability.

I understand losing weight is difficult, but so is quitting smoking, facing alcoholism, or getting over any other addiction. They also all have in common the fact that while there may be a genetic predisposition for the condition, it is a personal choice to engage in the behavior that results in their condition.

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"I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

Lasereth

Yeah I know I didn't mean for it to be so pointed at TFP members, I just think that a lot of people think a fat person has no self control when it fact they may just be attempting to reverse a lifetime of bad eating habits.

Jenna

Genetically, I got screwed over. Both of my parents are overweight, and thus, so am I. I don't want anyone to feel sorry for me, but it's hard being a girl in a society that is so attracted to thinness, yet the majority of people are overweight. It just fucks with your mind.

I just think it's hypocritical of people to make assumptions when they haven't walked a mile in a persons shoe. I think people maybe need to be a little bit more sensitive and not generalize.

Losing weight has always been a battle of mine, because I want a quick fix. Which, I lost 20lbs, but within a year, I gained it all back. I've kind of told myself that I'm not going to give up what I enjoy in life - which is relaxing at times, having good food, being with people I enjoy, etc. If that means that I'm overweight, then so be it. However, I do want to get in a "healthier" routine of things. I'll never be a size 0, but I just want to try to get healthier, not necessarily skinny.

I think things would be a lot easier if I didn't have such a terrible view on fatness, dieting, etc. My mom was awful, and still is. I mean constant passive aggressiveness about my weight. It really does damage to kids when their parents are constantly complaining about their weight, and by the time you turn 12 your mom is encouraging you to do extreme diets. I used to say that I didn't want children because they'd just be fat like me.

And no, not every person who is overweight eats a ridiculous amount. I was always the person who ate less than my friends but who was bigger than them. I remember when I played ice-hockey, I'd practice 3 times during the week (1 1/2 hour practices) and play 2 games a weekend. I was REALLY working out at that point. I mean my clothes would be drenched in sweat by the time I was done with practice and games, and I ate the same as I was before. I lost a total of 10 lbs during the season, which lasted from September to April. It was SO disheartening.

And to ramble on even more... I realized that my weight will NEVER be good enough. I look back on pictures of myself when I was younger, and weighed less, and I think... "Damn I looked good there!" but at the time, I thought I was SO overweight and SO ugly.

canuckguy

hey buddy i saw your pic in the tfp portraits thread and i would not say your fat. but i am curious about your dieting/exercising with no loss to show for it.

did you consult a doctor during that initial stage? as i am perplexed how it is possible for you not to loose any weight when consuming less calorioes than your burning over that length of time.

glad your getting results now! top stuff!

echo5delta

I was fidna say the same thing about lasereth, actually.

You know, this is one key aspect of the whole issue of obesity in America. So many women, particularly those who've grown up in the past 30 years, get these SEVERE self-image issues from the media and society at large. As a guy, I look at that situation and just get so goddamn outraged.

I enjoy looking at women and admiring them. A LOT. And I have seen plenty who are a size 14 or 16 that are just smokin' hot. But anyone who falls outside "the norm" gets beaten over the head with it just about daily. It takes a shitload of mental toughness to deal with something like that your whole life, much less overcome it. I know I couldn't deal with that.

It doesn't help that the King of Queens/Family Guy image sends the message that fat MEN are cool and even funny, but chicks all have to be skinny or they're useless. It's such bullshit.

Yeah, being obese is bad - sometimes it's lifestyle, sometimes it's genetic. But FFS, I wish society as a whole would really take a good look at what we consider to be "normal" for women. It's gonna drive me out of my friggin' mind if I have kid(s) and one's a girl.

(And, uh, jenna? Yeah, I saw a picture of you as well, and your size never even crossed my mind. Your hotness did, though! )

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"Peace" is when nobody's shooting. A "Just Peace" is when we get what we want. - Bill Mauldin

Miss Mango

this is a great point. I think thats what is so upsetting about fat discrimination because, in some respects, the differences in how we eat and what we eat today are so drastically different that its not entirely the fault of the obese person that they are obese. Yes, we have free will, but I think most would agree that the media is incredibly persuasive.

Lasereth

Yeah I lost 70 pounds but I've sorta plateaued. I think my more-hardcore strength training may have caused me to gain weight (I've gained a lot of muscle in the past 6 months) so my BMI may actually be lower even though I gained weight. My geneti-gut remains though.

Miss Mango

They also all have in common years of media attention to encourage you to engage in these activities.

The movie Thank You For Smoking is a perfect illustration.