robot_parade

So, I've noticed something in my years at TFP, and I wonder if anyone else has thoughts on the matter.

I think that, when people post regarding a situation with their significant other, where things are going badly, that a certain segment, perhaps even a majority, of TFPers tend to say 'move on!'. In other words, when things are going badly in a relationship, the consensus is to quit that relationship, and find another.

Now, the people in favor of this strategy have a lot going for them - lots of the situations described here are *fucked up shit*. "She cheated on me with her ex-father-in-law midget uncle", or some crazy thing like that. Jerry Springer style stuff. On the other hand, *all* relationships require work. Lots of work. The storybook Disney stuff just doesn't happen.

So, the purpose of this thread is to start a discussion about the attitude of TFPers with regards to the question of putting the work into a relationship versus moving on from a bad situation.

I don't mean to say that I think that this vocal segment is wrong. A lot of the situations I see sound like lost causes. I just think a moment of self-reflection is in order. Are we, as a community, telling people to give up too soon?

Since I think all good threads on TFP seem to require Sharing, here's my situation, from a few years back:

My wife was having an online Relationship with a sort-of-ex of hers. A guy she'd been chatting with online since before I knew her, and slept with once. I found out about it (she left chat windows open on our shared computer). I confronted her, and she apologized and backed down from the relationship she had with him. I forgave her. Then, a year or so later, it happened *again*. I could tell it was going on, just from little hints. I waited awhile, then confronted her. I forgave her, again, and we kept on. We're still married now, 5 years later. It isn't perfect, but it's pretty good.

Addendum: The above isn't to say she was the only one at fault in those situations - I was far, far from the perfect husband at the time.

I think, with hindsight, I was right to forgive her and try again, both times. But, on the other hand, this guy obviously has something she wants. Maybe it will happen again. I'm willing to risk that possibility to keep the marriage together.

On the other, other hand, a dating relationship is different from a marriage. Dating is all about figuring out what works for you, and if you are compatible with the other person.

ratbastid

All relationships always take work, and it's always worth it for what WE get as individuals out of doing that work. Whether the relationship survives or not, you always have a lesson to learn from doing everything there is to have it turn out. And it always CAN turn out.

toxic515

I see a relationship as an exchange of value for value. When that value cannot be exchanged, and eventually has exhausted it's credit AND will never likely provide value again, it IS, in fact a lost cause. Benefit of the doubt is credit, but it only extends so far. I don't believe in unconditional love. I won't be thinking loving thoughts about Hitler, I cannot love the man and hate the action or whatever, and I don't care to ever get a Valentine that says " I love you for no reason whatsoever. I derive no pleasure from your presence, and find nothing of value in you. I do, however, love you." Nope, I'll pass. The relationship must provide something of value.

All of that being said, I FURTHER believe that if there is no contract, no agreement of sort between two parties, then there is no obligation to try more than is amusing or pleasant to continue a relationship. If one chooses to continue a relationship after that point, then it is a choice, and what consequences come of it, come of it. What choice you, or he, or whomever, makes, is of little consequence to me, so long as it does not impact me or the things / people that I value.

Hope that makes it clear as mud, as we say.. ;-)
Sorry, guess I got all Randy ( it's late, good luck with the pun)

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Manic_Skafe

The fact that most of the votes are on the side of jumping ship are rather normal.

With the inherent complex nature of human relationships - it isn't very realistic to expect a random group of people to come up with an unbiased plan of action when the poster presents us with what is most often a dramatized snapshot of their situation from their perspective alone.

This is reason why communication between all the parties involved is always stressed in these forums. Hell, the fact that you should talk to your lover(s) and take everything you get from this forum with a grain of salt goes without saying.

So no, I don't think we're giving up too soon.

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snowy

I think everything is worth three tries. Three strikes and you're out, so to speak. I learned this lesson the hard way, and I only wish to save others the heartache I suffered learning it. Wisdom, after all, is learning from the mistakes of others. But I understand we are not all wise, and we must learn some things ourselves. So while I urge others to move on from what are relationships similarly toxic to the one I myself was in, I understand they will most likely not take my advice. But I'm here to give it anyways.

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Mantus

I've had allot of relationships in the past two years. I've helped a few relationships though. I've also helped quite a few men become more confident with women. From all these experiences my consensus is that unless people are shocked out of their original view of the world nothing will change. You can give them a quick fix but the same shit just keeps happening again and again.

Changing things up is a great way to learn because when you are in a relationship more often than not the less motivated of the two act as an anchor to progress. At least for a little while one of the two has to pull twice the weight in order to get though an issue. This is very hard, if not impossible, for most people. When we are exposed to new people we get new perspectives and that allows us to learn and grow.

In the end it's all about being happy. Having the confidence that you'll find happiness and holding yourself responsible for that journey. Sometimes that involves the excruciatingly difficult task of leaving a comfortable but passionless relationship.

Of course this comes from MY PERSPECTIVE. I am very confident in my ability to fall in love with women. I don't see relationships as something that the world gifts me with but rather a state I can easily choose for myself. If I don't like my current relationship I can go start a new one next week. That's me. I know that most of the population simply doesn't have that kind of confidence. So while it's very tempting for me to say "move on" I know that most of the time it's not the best advice. This is exactly why I don't post much in those types of threads even though I have allot of opinions on the subject.

Now you've got a bit of my "move on" perspective.

cheers!

Hain

As I am young, I don't have to live with the emotional consequences of my actions. I always feel there will be another girl. So it makes it easy for me to say , "Tell them they can go fuck themselves." I get worked up, I get pissed off, I can break down. But I have never taken it out on those around me. I find a woman I date to be weak when she goes ape-shit at me for things that I help her with/through only to suddenly become the cause of the problem to begin with. I should work at that myself, I know, but it still drives me bat-shit. They only get to accuse me of that once for free... maybe twice or three times if they are smoking hot AND can keep up with me mentally. After that, too bad so sad. I'll be there for you if I haven't got anything better to do but don't expect me there at the same emotional capacity as before.

When it is a long lasting relationship, and between two people I feel to be mature: I have to think there was good something there, and now there is something else gumming up the works. The love boat couldn't have been sailing for so long, otherwise. So the optimist in me whispers that they should do all they can to salvage that boat, before both drown.

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Push-Pull

Manic has it right (as do the others).

Often, we get several long screens worth of text describing what is mostly faults or blame, and if not directly, then insinuated. At any rate, I believe it nigh impossible to accurately describe a relationship situation from within.

Crap in=crap out.

BUT, I will say that seeing all the "move on" replies has made me think hard about what I will/won't tolerate in my life. My relationship isn't all roses right now, and knowing that I'm not wrong for desiring better has helped me focus on those things that bother me most, thus improving my relationship with my wife.

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DAMMIT! -Jack Bauer-

TotalMILF

Usually by the time a poster brings their "relationship problems" to this forum it's already far beyond repair and they're just looking for someone to validate their desire to leave the relationship. When we say "get out" it makes them feel better about doing something they were almost assuredly going to do anyway.

*shrug* Whatever works, I guess.

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Ustwo

I think the issue is that by the time people feel the need to post, any sort of real salvaging potential has past.

This isn't about things going badly, but that things have been bad for a LONG time, the poster has made various horrible choices, and now they are asking us to help them save a train wreck.

Yea what she said (read it after I posted)

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Bear Cub

Robot: Many of the relationship problems here that elicit the response you speak of, at least those I recall off the top of my head, typically refer to couples who are unmarried.

Now ask yourself: would you have thought it wise or been optimistic enough to have continued your relationship after having been "cheated on" twice if she were your girlfriend and not your wife?


Maybe the members of this board are pessimistic in that they feel the bulk of these relationships shouldn't be saved. Then again, maybe they're optimistic that a far more suitable, drama-free relationship can be found with at least one other person out of those 6.6 billion that occupy the same space.

Shaindra

"Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer but wish we didn't."
~Erica Jong

You're very right that dating is different than marriage. It also depends a lot on the history of the relationship. If things are going pretty well, and you hit a bump, well then it makes sense to address the bump. But if most of the ride has been bumpy, with only episodes of goodness, it's likely to be something beyond repair and unlikely to get better with more "work".

robot_parade

Wow, lots of excellent responses.

I agree with those that point out that marriage is a completely different ballgame than a dating relationship. When you get married, part of what you agree to is to 'put up with' and work through a lot of the issues that would make you just give up in a dating relationship.

I just wonder if sometimes we might give up on - and encourage others to give up on - a dating relationship that could still be repaired and work out very positively with some effort.

Of course, we all know and have heard of people who've stayed in relationships that were clearly doomed for far too long.

So I'm not saying that the prevailing TFP opinion on these threads is wrong. I just think maybe we, as a community, might want to think about a more nuanced approach to these posts.

Mantus

In my experience. Out of the hundreds of troubled relationships I've heard about I can count the number of them that actually manage to get better on one hand.

On the other hand, I constantly see men and women finding new and better love in fresh relationships.

On top of this about 95% of the time the issues are so expansive in nature that a "nuanced" approach is impossible. It's hard enough to open the mind of one person. Here we are dealing with trying to influence two people though one person who we are also trying to educate. Imagine having a classroom of just two kids. You have to teach them how to read but your only communication with the second child is though the first one.

In my opinion the best possible advice you can give anyone is to seek counseling. We have this idea of relationship therapy being something of a dire last resort but the truth is that even the best couples can learn allot from a visit to such a professional.