Neighborhood kids - dispute - What do I do? (Apology-long post) - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

raeanna74 · 06-10-2006, 09:23 PM

This has been so frustrating today. I've gotta vent and if any of you can give me some good advice on how to deal with it I would forever be grateful. So here's the story...

This morning I wake up to a nice day outside. I figure we can mow the lawn before it gets too warm so I'm picking up garbage and litter from the yard. I'm out back near the neighbors motor home which is right on the edge of the yard. The grass has gotten quite tall there so it's caught a lot of litter. I'm leaning over picking up stuff from even under the motorhome so I doesn't blow back and things look better. I see I pink item under the motor home. My daughter is always leaving things out and so who knows what it is, her's or a neighbors. I drag it out and find - cigarrettes and matches. A stash of them. On the bag is an initial. In our neighborhood there are only two kids who's names begin with that initial and one of them is just turning 13, She will be child number one, from family A. That particular one along with another friend of her's, who will be child number 2 from family C tend to get into a bit of trouble. So, I take the purse to family C. Family C's parents go to speak to family A's parents and they deal accordingly with their respective offenders.

At this point I thought things were over. It appears they weren't.

We leave to do a little bit of shopping and when we return home we discover that families A, B, C, and D have all at least had their children if not parents invited to family A's daughter's birthday party this evening. We have not been invited. After later investigation it seems invitations were given by word of mouth just before the party started. Since we were here atm we weren't asked to come.

Just about the time that the party seems to be winding down and the kids coming back out to play and my daughter rides her bike down to say Hi. I come inside and she returns shortly to say that a couple kids called her a Tattle tale. Apparently child #2 from the earlier incident and another girl from family B called her this name.

I'm out working on a trellis on the front steps (sanding and painting it) and watching the kids. None of the parents are really outside for very long, some are in and out but most of the time it's only the kids. My daughter (who is 5 and one of the youngest in the neighborhood) is riding her bike up and down the block and past the house where the party was. She says hi multiple times and only the oldest of the kids even acknowledge her. Finally she starts after one of the kids, the girl from family B who is closer in age to her and begins saying "Hi _first name_" every time she passes. The girl continues to ignore her. I even say "Hi" twice to the same girl as she rides past and she refuses to look at me. I'm beginning to think that the kids are angry that two of their crew are in trouble because of my family. What else am I supposed to think. So my daughter, when she gets no response, begins to say "Hi _first and last name." Every time she passes. The girl still refuses to answer until finally she turns on my daughter and says "Stop saying that. I don't like you calling me by my whole name." Fine, I call my daughter and tell her to stop saying the girls whole name. She does not listen and does it one more time. The girl and boy from family B both then turn on her (they are just about 14 feet away on the other side of the Lilac bush out front) and they both call her a "tattle tale." I've had it at this point (Besides the fact that I'm currently PMSing) and I get down, walk around the bush and literally yell (I know I shouldn't yell at them - but I did) saying "Don't call each other names, and don't (speaking to my own child) keep calling 'girl child from family B' by her full name if she doesn't want you to." "If you two think that my daughter tattled on anything she DIDN"T. I did it. She knew nothing about it. So leave her out of it." I turn back to my work then. End of story I thought.

So kids are still ignoring my daughter. In fact they're glaring at me as they walk past numerous times and when I say Hi in a friendly way to the kids from all 4 families I get very few responses - mostly from the 2 or 3 oldest. I even tell child #1 from family C "Happy Birthday" as it is her birthday. She mumbles a thanks and won't make eye contact with me.

What am I to do but assume that the kids are aware that I'm the one who found the contraband and turned them in?

Well later the kids are a block South of our property playing at the house across from my brother's place. My nephew just so happens to be there as well. The kids are sitting in a circle on the sidewalk (about 10 of them at least) and there are no parents present. I take my daughter for a bike ride to the gas station and we pass by the house. The kids get up and run around the corner headed West as they see us approach. When we pass they stop and watch us. It's obvious they're avoiding us and my daughter is looking more and more pained by these responses.

On the way back I see my nephew but no other kids from my immediate neighborhood. I call a 'hello' to my nephew and pass on. Not long after getting home my brother calls "What's going on??!"
"I dunno - the kids are kindof mad at us I think, they're ignoring my daughter... why? what's going on?"
"Well B (my nephew) said that when you guys rode by before the kids from your neighborhood got up and ran off saying "Here comes H and L, lets run!" Then later two of the girls (my nephew could give no description) rode by and said "Your cousin is a tattle-tale" "

So I call my neighbor A where most of the kids are currently congregated. I inform her of the situation.

Hubby is getting concerned and wants to know what's going on. So we go over to talk to parent A. In the process of it the kids from house B are there, the leave rapidly and apparently to tell their mother of the goings on. Mother B and mother C arrive in the house (beer in hand, btw) to confront me about 'yelling' at B's kids. The yelling occured about 4 hours prior to this. I say that I have no current gripe and that I'm just trying to understand the problems that are going on and why my brother's kid is being harrassed as well. Mother B starts into me with "I would like you never to yell at my kids again. I want you to come to me like an adult and tell me what is wrong." She never apologized for her kids calling my daughter any names. She never acknowledged that I'd yelled at my daughter for bothering the girl either. She simply attacked me. I simply answer her with "Yes I will tell you if there's any other problems and I won't yell at your kids." Which I intend to keep. I do not need to yell - it was my irritation and emotions kicking in.

So - now what. I've considered seriously going to my neighbor B when she is outside and the kids are there as well and apologizing to the kids in her hearing for yelling at them and tell them that I promise I won't yell again but I will talk to mother B if I have any problems. Confirming what she requests but attempting to offer the olive branch. I dont' know if this would be a concession that would hurt my case or help it.

I don't know how to help protect my child. As she is the youngest of most of the children and the only one who has no siblings to stand up for her she is OFTEN picked on. If I can't defend her then who will? The kids FREQUENTLY congregate in my yard and take advantage of my hospitality. If I cannot discipline then how am I to maintain order in my yard and home? This Mother B who yelled at me has never acknowledged that I helped her child this past Friday. She was out drinking, her husband was home sleeping and her two children were in MY pool. The boy got stung by a bee and I brought him dripping wet into my kitchen, removed the stinger, gave him a baking soda paste to help, and sent him home with his usual sitter (who happened to be here) to find his allergy meds. I assumed she'd know where they were. It seems she didn't and had to call mom to find them. She only complained that the call was a real buzz kill.

What can I do? I want to maintain peace in my neighborhood (I'm by nature a peacekeeper). I do not want my daughter picked on or my yard continually trashed (which can be the case at times) without my being able to control any of it. I feel helpless, frustrated, hurt, and scared.

At least tell me I'm not completely nuts for being a little protective?

Toaster126 · 06-10-2006, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raeanna74

At least tell me I'm not completely nuts for being a little protective?

You aren't, but I'm sure by the same token you can understand the kids looking after their own and the parents taking offense to the yelling you did. People are just like that sometimes.

raeanna74 · 06-11-2006, 03:55 AM

The kids looking after their own?? The kids are OFTEN in my back yard, playing with my daughter, and using my things. It's not uncommon for me to be sitting in my bathroom on the toilet and end up having a neighbor kid come bursing in to use the bathroom. I have walked into my kitchen to find neighbor kids, even with out my daughter present, digging in my fridge or freezer for food or popcicles. They feel free to use my stuff, trash my house and yard, and then be mean little brats to my daughter. I do not see that as looking after their own. My daughter did nothing other that repeat a child's name because they were being rude enough to ignore her. Why? I have no clue.

After talking to Parent A we find that they hold that the kids did not even know that I found the contraband and that she and her husband claimed to have found it. This puts everything in a new light. The kids did not even suspect my daughter of having reported the stuff - supposedly.

Also - so what do I do now?? The parent who got upset about me yelling has done her share of yelling at MY child as well and I looked past it. What she expects from me needs to be what she gives as well.

highthief · 06-11-2006, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raeanna74

The kids looking after their own?? The kids are OFTEN in my back yard, playing with my daughter, and using my things. It's not uncommon for me to be sitting in my bathroom on the toilet and end up having a neighbor kid come bursing in to use the bathroom. I have walked into my kitchen to find neighbor kids, even with out my daughter present, digging in my fridge or freezer for food or popcicles. They feel free to use my stuff, trash my house and yard, and then be mean little brats to my daughter.

It's wrong, generally, to yell at other people's kids. Sometimes, when a serious situation occurs, OK (say, involving safety) but you know, yelling at kids, your own or someone else's, is generally not cool. Talking to them calmly to instruct them not to do something, talking to their parents, that's fine.

But it also sounds a bit like you are allowing the kids to run rampant. I mean, you're complaining about the kids taking your stuff from your house and your yard as if you have no control over this happening, when, in fact, you have complete control.

As for your child, of course is natural to want to protect her, but kids are kids, they pick on each other one day and are best friends the next, it is their nature, especially in groups.

raeanna74 · 06-11-2006, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highthief

It's wrong, generally, to yell at other people's kids. Sometimes, when a serious situation occurs, OK (say, involving safety) but you know, yelling at kids, your own or someone else's, is generally not cool. Talking to them calmly to instruct them not to do something, talking to their parents, that's fine.

But it also sounds a bit like you are allowing the kids to run rampant. I mean, you're complaining about the kids taking your stuff from your house and your yard as if you have no control over this happening, when, in fact, you have complete control.

As for your child, of course is natural to want to protect her, but kids are kids, they pick on each other one day and are best friends the next, it is their nature, especially in groups.

I do not allow the kids to run rampant. When I catch them in my fridge, or abusing my daughter's swingset or things I correct it. I have spoken to the parents. Mom from family C is usually quick to correct any problem with the kids. Dad from family A is often quick as well. I've been there watching the kids play, watching family B's kids being rude to my daughter and parents from family B can be watching their kids at the same time and say NOTHING. Sometimes they say something but not always. When the parents from family B are there I don't correct their kids usually unless all of the kids are getting into the same trouble but I will call my daughter to me when the kids are being rude or mean to her. The parents don't even seem to realize their kids are that rude or mean most of the time. They're just being funny, or cute, or wild, or - whatever.

I have said that I shouldn't have yelled. But yet the parents did not seem to care and I was already worn thin watching this drama. I WILL defend my child, leave no doubt about that.

edit - one more thing. These particular kids whom I yelled at. I caught them last week, they'd been playing nicely in our back yard. My daughter was swinging on the bar on the swing, when suddenly, these two kids took punches at my daughter's belly and then ran. They were laughing when she ran into the house and to me. I think they believed it was funny to see her cry.

thespian86 · 06-11-2006, 05:53 AM

I understand your need to protect your child. I have two really young sisters, one eight and one three, where the eight year old is the ring leader and the three year old is the victim. There is a group of 10 kids or so in my fathers neighborhood and the eight year old is constantly bossing and handing out assignments for hellish deeds. I think you need to realize that any five year old child that is trying to spend time as friends with a Tween is bound to be abuised. It has nothing to do with your daughter. From everything I've read she seems to be sharp and very intelligent. The older children are in a totally different place as the five year old child right now and the slightly younger children are all pining to be older, therefore mob mentallity ensues. I realize that you want your daughter to have neighborhood friends, people close that your daughter can grow up with and socialize with. It might just be an age difference that is too great. espeically with the comment about the kids being bullies? You can see the need to have more power, feeling as if they are entitled to more.

Also, have you considered that there was another incident that your daughter had informed an adult of something that the group was doing. I find that younger children are still naive to the whole lying to save our asses rutine; if not that then your daughter is just honest. Perhaps you misinterpreted their cold shoulder, thinking it was the smoking thing, and made it worse by telling them that in the heat of passion. Perhaps, also, thats why the parents were mad too.

raeanna74 · 06-11-2006, 07:40 AM

Well as to what my daughter told me. She was not totally aware that I had 'tattled' on the kids earlier yesterday. She was still asleep when I found the contraband and turned it over. So I don't believe she was making up the 'Tattletale' name calling the first time. The second time it happened I heard it myself. The third time was to a stranger to these kids and my brother had no idea what was going on when he told me of it.

As for the two that are the most aggresive - they are ages 5 and 9. The rest of the kids ARE older but the ones that can be the meanest are the closest in age to my daughter. That in particular makes it hard to deal with. One might hope that they'd stick up for their peers but instead they turn on them.

I'm trying to 'tutor' my daughter to stand up for herself. Not by being a bully back but by speaking up and telling them to stop doing certain things or by getting up and leaving instead of putting up with the bullying just so she can 'play' with them.

Also - the 5 yr old is a boy who was 'playing' at being my daughter's boyfriend just the day before last. In fact he was hugging her and tickling her and snuggling. I suggested they do something else which they did but it was uncomfortable for me to see the adult body language of the two of them. I don't understand how he can go from being best friends to utter enemies with no personal offenses made in the interum.

Cynthetiq · 06-11-2006, 07:50 AM

There are lots of lessons here from both sides, not stating that you've done anything wrong, just examples of behavoir that you need to highlight to your children that these are admirable and good qualities even if at the moment they don't feel like it due to riducle and persecution.

Sage · 06-11-2006, 12:34 PM

Can't you lock your doors? I mean, it seems that family B's kids are the ones who are causing the trouble- you can do things like tell the family that their kids were found in your house without your permission and if they do it again you'll get the police involved.

It's YOUR HOUSE. Damn straight those kids better behave based on YOUR rules while on YOUR property. There's all kinds of trespass laws and such that regegate the behavior of guests on your property. Don't bend to pressure to protect your daughter. She needs to learn to stand up for herself just as much as learning that you're always there to protect her. Remember that.

Zeraph · 06-11-2006, 02:26 PM

I say get some sprinklers, if that doesn't work get a german sheperd. I'd be pretty pissed if anyone used my house or property without my permision, even if they were kids, and especially if they were hurting my kids.

raeanna74 · 06-11-2006, 03:59 PM

The biggest thing about them coming in my house is that they're usually in my yard at the time playing with my daughter. Any of the kids in the neighborhood seem to think that they can use the bathroom of the house who's property they are playing on. The only ones who ask are the two 15 yr olds and I have no problem with them at all.

Things have not completely cleared up today. I believe it comes down to this... the girl from house B is angry with me, and perhaps my daughter because her best friend the child #1 from house A got grounded. I'm not sure but this is how it looks. Child #1 refuses to take responsibility for her actions. I heard her taunting and blaming her accomplice today. I think until Child #1 is not grounded anymore or till she learns her lesson that those two girls will attempt to stir up trouble. I saw little of the parents from house B today. The father did wave to me when I waved today but I have not seen the mom yet. It's possible she has a miserable hangover or she could be avoiding us. Who knows. She can be little short with some people and I'm not sure what makes her tick. I just hope she gets over this quickly and forgets it.

Toaster126 · 06-11-2006, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raeanna74

The kids looking after their own?? The kids are OFTEN in my back yard, playing with my daughter, and using my things. It's not uncommon for me to be sitting in my bathroom on the toilet and end up having a neighbor kid come bursing in to use the bathroom. I have walked into my kitchen to find neighbor kids, even with out my daughter present, digging in my fridge or freezer for food or popcicles. They feel free to use my stuff, trash my house and yard, and then be mean little brats to my daughter. I do not see that as looking after their own. My daughter did nothing other that repeat a child's name because they were being rude enough to ignore her. Why? I have no clue.

After talking to Parent A we find that they hold that the kids did not even know that I found the contraband and that she and her husband claimed to have found it. This puts everything in a new light. The kids did not even suspect my daughter of having reported the stuff - supposedly.

Also - so what do I do now?? The parent who got upset about me yelling has done her share of yelling at MY child as well and I looked past it. What she expects from me needs to be what she gives as well.

Looking after their own doesn't mean anything about being fair to you. Some people, especially young ones, take and take without regard to equality or playing fair. Also, people are hypocrites sometimes.

Merlocke · 06-12-2006, 12:22 AM

I've never been very much of a diplomat, so any advice I give will most likely end up getting you into trouble. Doesn't help that I'm frustrated as hell myself at the moment with life in general, so I'll try to keep quiet.

All I know is that once a long time ago, I heard a saying.

"If Thine enemy wrongs thee, buy their children a drum"

Something irritating and loud and that will take the kids awhile to grow tired of. I'm not sure what the "drum" would be in this case, but good luck. Let us know how things turn out

thespian86 · 06-12-2006, 06:16 PM

Fifteen Years Old? no matter how intelligent your daughter is, arn't you afraid of the influence a child of that age will have on your five year old daughter... when I was fifteen i was a cronic masterbater, in my town's first emo band, and sporting ralph lauren and being a preppie asshole. When I was five I was in love with the pink power ranger, running away from girls, and chasing a soccerball with the swarm of the rest of my team. Arn't you afraid the age difference is far to great? And I wasn't a bad kid, in any respect, but I got into the normal teenaged mishaps around fourteen fifteen... I'd be afraid of how kids that age 10-15 are effecting my child socially?

raeanna74 · 06-13-2006, 04:49 AM

Those two 15 yr olds are the most responsible girls. The one is always looking after her little 3 yr old brother and running errands for her step mom with a good attitude. The other 15 yr old seems to really enjoy watching the kids as well. When those two are on duty I've never had a problem. I've spied on them and found them to be more responsible than some adults.

thingstodo · 06-13-2006, 04:51 AM

Time heals all wounds.

raeanna74 · 06-13-2006, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thingstodo

Time heals all wounds.

True

It appears the time taken in this instance isn't very great. So far all but one neighbor is left who has not spoken at least a polite hello to me. She is gone atm and she had no direct problem with me so I don't expect a problem there.

I believe I will be a bit more careful and not so comfortable with the neighbors and their kids. Coming in my house will be on the condition of good behavior or instead of being corrected for bad behavior they will simply be asked to go home. I think that may be a more effective way of maintaining order.

My daughter has learned a little how to deal with the kids. She was being pestered by one yesterday and instead of putting up with it she said to them "It's time to go home now. I'm going inside." She did come inside for a short while and then went back out to play. I think she's learned that she DOESN'T need to tolerate pushy or mean behavior just to have a person as a friend. I hope she doesn't forget this for a long time.

thingstodo · 06-14-2006, 03:28 PM

Wow! You made my day. It's amazing that such a simple concept actually works!! I read a lot of Chinese stuff and this falls right in line.

One of the quotes in the Tao Ching goes something like this (paraphrased) Do you have the patience to allow the mud to settle so you can see things more clearly?

Time - patience - it all relates. I'm happy for you that things seem to be working themselves out!

raeanna74 · 06-17-2006, 06:30 PM

Well we just spent a great day hanging out with the family who I was most anxious about. The mother who had yelled at me, sent a coloring book and note to my daughter thanking her for sharing her pool with the kids. It was very nice. So I went out last night and thanked her. We ended up talking and watching the kids play in the pool till nearly 9:00pm or so. Then the kids went inside to watch a movie and the dad of the other family went and got one of the 15 yr olds to come stay with the kids. Then the parents and hubby and I walked down to the bar 3 blocks away for the evening. We had a blast.
Then today we met at a lake outside of town for swimming. When we came home we all grilled out together and shared supper on our deck. Some more neighbors came over after supper and drank and talked for what seemed like hours. The kids that were outside (the two original offenders are still grounded) were getting along well.

I am beginning to wonder if my view of how groups of kids function together isn't a little warped. I grew up very sheltered. When I was in public school my parents were exceptionally strict and I stood out as being wierd, geeky, and a misfit. I never did get included in the group. I had one best friend for a couple years in school but then she started to get accepted by the rest of the kids and dumped me. I'm still bitter about that. My daughter seems relatively accepted so when they were excluding her I think I identified with that and it made me unreasonably angry. I was afraid that she'd become what I was and I hated it. In school the exclusion I suffered was never temporary. I didn't expect that the kids would ever include her again. Is my personal experience that unusual?? Are kids normally like this - not like my experience? I feel stupid asking this having been a teacher - but I've always taught in parochial schools and I think the atmosphere is a little different there. My parents homeschooled me from 7th grade on and I was glad for it because I hated how I was treated and that would never have changed. My parents were too insane for the kids to ever accept me.

06-10-2006, 09:23 PM	#1 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	Neighborhood kids - dispute - What do I do? (Apology-long post) This has been so frustrating today. I've gotta vent and if any of you can give me some good advice on how to deal with it I would forever be grateful. So here's the story... This morning I wake up to a nice day outside. I figure we can mow the lawn before it gets too warm so I'm picking up garbage and litter from the yard. I'm out back near the neighbors motor home which is right on the edge of the yard. The grass has gotten quite tall there so it's caught a lot of litter. I'm leaning over picking up stuff from even under the motorhome so I doesn't blow back and things look better. I see I pink item under the motor home. My daughter is always leaving things out and so who knows what it is, her's or a neighbors. I drag it out and find - cigarrettes and matches. A stash of them. On the bag is an initial. In our neighborhood there are only two kids who's names begin with that initial and one of them is just turning 13, She will be child number one, from family A. That particular one along with another friend of her's, who will be child number 2 from family C tend to get into a bit of trouble. So, I take the purse to family C. Family C's parents go to speak to family A's parents and they deal accordingly with their respective offenders. At this point I thought things were over. It appears they weren't. We leave to do a little bit of shopping and when we return home we discover that families A, B, C, and D have all at least had their children if not parents invited to family A's daughter's birthday party this evening. We have not been invited. After later investigation it seems invitations were given by word of mouth just before the party started. Since we were here atm we weren't asked to come. Just about the time that the party seems to be winding down and the kids coming back out to play and my daughter rides her bike down to say Hi. I come inside and she returns shortly to say that a couple kids called her a Tattle tale. Apparently child #2 from the earlier incident and another girl from family B called her this name. I'm out working on a trellis on the front steps (sanding and painting it) and watching the kids. None of the parents are really outside for very long, some are in and out but most of the time it's only the kids. My daughter (who is 5 and one of the youngest in the neighborhood) is riding her bike up and down the block and past the house where the party was. She says hi multiple times and only the oldest of the kids even acknowledge her. Finally she starts after one of the kids, the girl from family B who is closer in age to her and begins saying "Hi _first name_" every time she passes. The girl continues to ignore her. I even say "Hi" twice to the same girl as she rides past and she refuses to look at me. I'm beginning to think that the kids are angry that two of their crew are in trouble because of my family. What else am I supposed to think. So my daughter, when she gets no response, begins to say "Hi _first and last name." Every time she passes. The girl still refuses to answer until finally she turns on my daughter and says "Stop saying that. I don't like you calling me by my whole name." Fine, I call my daughter and tell her to stop saying the girls whole name. She does not listen and does it one more time. The girl and boy from family B both then turn on her (they are just about 14 feet away on the other side of the Lilac bush out front) and they both call her a "tattle tale." I've had it at this point (Besides the fact that I'm currently PMSing) and I get down, walk around the bush and literally yell (I know I shouldn't yell at them - but I did) saying "Don't call each other names, and don't (speaking to my own child) keep calling 'girl child from family B' by her full name if she doesn't want you to." "If you two think that my daughter tattled on anything she DIDN"T. I did it. She knew nothing about it. So leave her out of it." I turn back to my work then. End of story I thought. So kids are still ignoring my daughter. In fact they're glaring at me as they walk past numerous times and when I say Hi in a friendly way to the kids from all 4 families I get very few responses - mostly from the 2 or 3 oldest. I even tell child #1 from family C "Happy Birthday" as it is her birthday. She mumbles a thanks and won't make eye contact with me. What am I to do but assume that the kids are aware that I'm the one who found the contraband and turned them in? Well later the kids are a block South of our property playing at the house across from my brother's place. My nephew just so happens to be there as well. The kids are sitting in a circle on the sidewalk (about 10 of them at least) and there are no parents present. I take my daughter for a bike ride to the gas station and we pass by the house. The kids get up and run around the corner headed West as they see us approach. When we pass they stop and watch us. It's obvious they're avoiding us and my daughter is looking more and more pained by these responses. On the way back I see my nephew but no other kids from my immediate neighborhood. I call a 'hello' to my nephew and pass on. Not long after getting home my brother calls "What's going on??!" "I dunno - the kids are kindof mad at us I think, they're ignoring my daughter... why? what's going on?" "Well B (my nephew) said that when you guys rode by before the kids from your neighborhood got up and ran off saying "Here comes H and L, lets run!" Then later two of the girls (my nephew could give no description) rode by and said "Your cousin is a tattle-tale" " So I call my neighbor A where most of the kids are currently congregated. I inform her of the situation. Hubby is getting concerned and wants to know what's going on. So we go over to talk to parent A. In the process of it the kids from house B are there, the leave rapidly and apparently to tell their mother of the goings on. Mother B and mother C arrive in the house (beer in hand, btw) to confront me about 'yelling' at B's kids. The yelling occured about 4 hours prior to this. I say that I have no current gripe and that I'm just trying to understand the problems that are going on and why my brother's kid is being harrassed as well. Mother B starts into me with "I would like you never to yell at my kids again. I want you to come to me like an adult and tell me what is wrong." She never apologized for her kids calling my daughter any names. She never acknowledged that I'd yelled at my daughter for bothering the girl either. She simply attacked me. I simply answer her with "Yes I will tell you if there's any other problems and I won't yell at your kids." Which I intend to keep. I do not need to yell - it was my irritation and emotions kicking in. So - now what. I've considered seriously going to my neighbor B when she is outside and the kids are there as well and apologizing to the kids in her hearing for yelling at them and tell them that I promise I won't yell again but I will talk to mother B if I have any problems. Confirming what she requests but attempting to offer the olive branch. I dont' know if this would be a concession that would hurt my case or help it. I don't know how to help protect my child. As she is the youngest of most of the children and the only one who has no siblings to stand up for her she is OFTEN picked on. If I can't defend her then who will? The kids FREQUENTLY congregate in my yard and take advantage of my hospitality. If I cannot discipline then how am I to maintain order in my yard and home? This Mother B who yelled at me has never acknowledged that I helped her child this past Friday. She was out drinking, her husband was home sleeping and her two children were in MY pool. The boy got stung by a bee and I brought him dripping wet into my kitchen, removed the stinger, gave him a baking soda paste to help, and sent him home with his usual sitter (who happened to be here) to find his allergy meds. I assumed she'd know where they were. It seems she didn't and had to call mom to find them. She only complained that the call was a real buzz kill. What can I do? I want to maintain peace in my neighborhood (I'm by nature a peacekeeper). I do not want my daughter picked on or my yard continually trashed (which can be the case at times) without my being able to control any of it. I feel helpless, frustrated, hurt, and scared. At least tell me I'm not completely nuts for being a little protective? __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

06-11-2006, 03:55 AM	#3 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	The kids looking after their own?? The kids are OFTEN in my back yard, playing with my daughter, and using my things. It's not uncommon for me to be sitting in my bathroom on the toilet and end up having a neighbor kid come bursing in to use the bathroom. I have walked into my kitchen to find neighbor kids, even with out my daughter present, digging in my fridge or freezer for food or popcicles. They feel free to use my stuff, trash my house and yard, and then be mean little brats to my daughter. I do not see that as looking after their own. My daughter did nothing other that repeat a child's name because they were being rude enough to ignore her. Why? I have no clue. After talking to Parent A we find that they hold that the kids did not even know that I found the contraband and that she and her husband claimed to have found it. This puts everything in a new light. The kids did not even suspect my daughter of having reported the stuff - supposedly. Also - so what do I do now?? The parent who got upset about me yelling has done her share of yelling at MY child as well and I looked past it. What she expects from me needs to be what she gives as well. __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

06-11-2006, 05:53 AM	#6 (permalink)
thespian86 change is hard. Location: the green room.	I understand your need to protect your child. I have two really young sisters, one eight and one three, where the eight year old is the ring leader and the three year old is the victim. There is a group of 10 kids or so in my fathers neighborhood and the eight year old is constantly bossing and handing out assignments for hellish deeds. I think you need to realize that any five year old child that is trying to spend time as friends with a Tween is bound to be abuised. It has nothing to do with your daughter. From everything I've read she seems to be sharp and very intelligent. The older children are in a totally different place as the five year old child right now and the slightly younger children are all pining to be older, therefore mob mentallity ensues. I realize that you want your daughter to have neighborhood friends, people close that your daughter can grow up with and socialize with. It might just be an age difference that is too great. espeically with the comment about the kids being bullies? You can see the need to have more power, feeling as if they are entitled to more. Also, have you considered that there was another incident that your daughter had informed an adult of something that the group was doing. I find that younger children are still naive to the whole lying to save our asses rutine; if not that then your daughter is just honest. Perhaps you misinterpreted their cold shoulder, thinking it was the smoking thing, and made it worse by telling them that in the heat of passion. Perhaps, also, thats why the parents were mad too. __________________ EX: Whats new? ME: I officially love coffee more then you now. EX: uh... ME: So, not much.

06-11-2006, 07:40 AM	#7 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	Well as to what my daughter told me. She was not totally aware that I had 'tattled' on the kids earlier yesterday. She was still asleep when I found the contraband and turned it over. So I don't believe she was making up the 'Tattletale' name calling the first time. The second time it happened I heard it myself. The third time was to a stranger to these kids and my brother had no idea what was going on when he told me of it. As for the two that are the most aggresive - they are ages 5 and 9. The rest of the kids ARE older but the ones that can be the meanest are the closest in age to my daughter. That in particular makes it hard to deal with. One might hope that they'd stick up for their peers but instead they turn on them. I'm trying to 'tutor' my daughter to stand up for herself. Not by being a bully back but by speaking up and telling them to stop doing certain things or by getting up and leaving instead of putting up with the bullying just so she can 'play' with them. Also - the 5 yr old is a boy who was 'playing' at being my daughter's boyfriend just the day before last. In fact he was hugging her and tickling her and snuggling. I suggested they do something else which they did but it was uncomfortable for me to see the adult body language of the two of them. I don't understand how he can go from being best friends to utter enemies with no personal offenses made in the interum. __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma. Last edited by raeanna74; 06-17-2006 at 06:13 PM..

06-11-2006, 07:50 AM	#8 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	There are lots of lessons here from both sides, not stating that you've done anything wrong, just examples of behavoir that you need to highlight to your children that these are admirable and good qualities even if at the moment they don't feel like it due to riducle and persecution. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

06-11-2006, 12:34 PM	#9 (permalink)
Sage hoarding all the big girl panties since 2005 Location: North side	Can't you lock your doors? I mean, it seems that family B's kids are the ones who are causing the trouble- you can do things like tell the family that their kids were found in your house without your permission and if they do it again you'll get the police involved. It's YOUR HOUSE. Damn straight those kids better behave based on YOUR rules while on YOUR property. There's all kinds of trespass laws and such that regegate the behavior of guests on your property. Don't bend to pressure to protect your daughter. She needs to learn to stand up for herself just as much as learning that you're always there to protect her. Remember that. __________________ Sage knows our mythic history, King Arthur's and Sir Caradoc's She answers hard acrostics, has a pretty taste for paradox She quotes in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus In conics she can floor peculiarities parabolous -C'hi

06-11-2006, 02:26 PM	#10 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	I say get some sprinklers, if that doesn't work get a german sheperd. I'd be pretty pissed if anyone used my house or property without my permision, even if they were kids, and especially if they were hurting my kids.

06-11-2006, 03:59 PM	#11 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	The biggest thing about them coming in my house is that they're usually in my yard at the time playing with my daughter. Any of the kids in the neighborhood seem to think that they can use the bathroom of the house who's property they are playing on. The only ones who ask are the two 15 yr olds and I have no problem with them at all. Things have not completely cleared up today. I believe it comes down to this... the girl from house B is angry with me, and perhaps my daughter because her best friend the child #1 from house A got grounded. I'm not sure but this is how it looks. Child #1 refuses to take responsibility for her actions. I heard her taunting and blaming her accomplice today. I think until Child #1 is not grounded anymore or till she learns her lesson that those two girls will attempt to stir up trouble. I saw little of the parents from house B today. The father did wave to me when I waved today but I have not seen the mom yet. It's possible she has a miserable hangover or she could be avoiding us. Who knows. She can be little short with some people and I'm not sure what makes her tick. I just hope she gets over this quickly and forgets it. __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma. Last edited by raeanna74; 06-17-2006 at 06:10 PM..

06-12-2006, 12:22 AM	#13 (permalink)
Merlocke Location: Canada	I've never been very much of a diplomat, so any advice I give will most likely end up getting you into trouble. Doesn't help that I'm frustrated as hell myself at the moment with life in general, so I'll try to keep quiet. All I know is that once a long time ago, I heard a saying. "If Thine enemy wrongs thee, buy their children a drum" Something irritating and loud and that will take the kids awhile to grow tired of. I'm not sure what the "drum" would be in this case, but good luck. Let us know how things turn out __________________ -=[ Merlocke ]=-

06-12-2006, 06:16 PM	#14 (permalink)
thespian86 change is hard. Location: the green room.	Fifteen Years Old? no matter how intelligent your daughter is, arn't you afraid of the influence a child of that age will have on your five year old daughter... when I was fifteen i was a cronic masterbater, in my town's first emo band, and sporting ralph lauren and being a preppie asshole. When I was five I was in love with the pink power ranger, running away from girls, and chasing a soccerball with the swarm of the rest of my team. Arn't you afraid the age difference is far to great? And I wasn't a bad kid, in any respect, but I got into the normal teenaged mishaps around fourteen fifteen... I'd be afraid of how kids that age 10-15 are effecting my child socially? __________________ EX: Whats new? ME: I officially love coffee more then you now. EX: uh... ME: So, not much.

06-13-2006, 04:49 AM	#15 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	Those two 15 yr olds are the most responsible girls. The one is always looking after her little 3 yr old brother and running errands for her step mom with a good attitude. The other 15 yr old seems to really enjoy watching the kids as well. When those two are on duty I've never had a problem. I've spied on them and found them to be more responsible than some adults. __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma. Last edited by raeanna74; 06-16-2006 at 02:29 PM..

06-13-2006, 04:51 AM	#16 (permalink)
thingstodo A Storm Is Coming Location: The Great White North	Time heals all wounds. __________________ If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves. Stangers have the best candy.

06-14-2006, 03:28 PM	#18 (permalink)
thingstodo A Storm Is Coming Location: The Great White North	Wow! You made my day. It's amazing that such a simple concept actually works!! I read a lot of Chinese stuff and this falls right in line. One of the quotes in the Tao Ching goes something like this (paraphrased) Do you have the patience to allow the mud to settle so you can see things more clearly? Time - patience - it all relates. I'm happy for you that things seem to be working themselves out! __________________ If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves. Stangers have the best candy.

06-17-2006, 06:30 PM	#19 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	Well we just spent a great day hanging out with the family who I was most anxious about. The mother who had yelled at me, sent a coloring book and note to my daughter thanking her for sharing her pool with the kids. It was very nice. So I went out last night and thanked her. We ended up talking and watching the kids play in the pool till nearly 9:00pm or so. Then the kids went inside to watch a movie and the dad of the other family went and got one of the 15 yr olds to come stay with the kids. Then the parents and hubby and I walked down to the bar 3 blocks away for the evening. We had a blast. Then today we met at a lake outside of town for swimming. When we came home we all grilled out together and shared supper on our deck. Some more neighbors came over after supper and drank and talked for what seemed like hours. The kids that were outside (the two original offenders are still grounded) were getting along well. I am beginning to wonder if my view of how groups of kids function together isn't a little warped. I grew up very sheltered. When I was in public school my parents were exceptionally strict and I stood out as being wierd, geeky, and a misfit. I never did get included in the group. I had one best friend for a couple years in school but then she started to get accepted by the rest of the kids and dumped me. I'm still bitter about that. My daughter seems relatively accepted so when they were excluding her I think I identified with that and it made me unreasonably angry. I was afraid that she'd become what I was and I hated it. In school the exclusion I suffered was never temporary. I didn't expect that the kids would ever include her again. Is my personal experience that unusual?? Are kids normally like this - not like my experience? I feel stupid asking this having been a teacher - but I've always taught in parochial schools and I think the atmosphere is a little different there. My parents homeschooled me from 7th grade on and I was glad for it because I hated how I was treated and that would never have changed. My parents were too insane for the kids to ever accept me. __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.