Xerxys

Baraka_Guru

I generally don't like to pay for things that people widely admit are bad. When I go to the theatre or buy a DVD, it's a very conscious decision that included much thought and a bit of research.

I can see why people download if they're uncertain about the quality of something.

I don't see why people calculate a download as "lost revenue." I think it's wrong to assume that people download instead of buy something. I think many downloads are of things people wouldn't have bought in the first place.

I wouldn't mind seeing more try-before-you-buy options: song previews, 10 minute features of movies, etc.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Nikilidstrom

While I admit to downloading music, I refuse to dl or stream first run cinema before I have seen it in the theatre, good bad or otherwise. However, I do use streaming sites for any subsequent views of a movie until the blu-ray comes out. Paying $10 once is enough, I'm not paying it again and again. I just feel that watching first runs anywhere other than a theatre or blu-ray takes away from the experience of seeing the film for the first time. The quality of streams and torrents for new movies is often questionable, and I don't have a 30' x 40' screen sitting at my house.

Having said all of that, the increasing number of assholes that attend movies now makes me yearn for the day when first runs will stream to the home, and theatres will be a thing of the past.

Charlatan

Looks like they need to get the "shitty" films onto other platforms faster. In other words, films that suck need to get onto VOD, DVD and/or Cable TV a lot sooner. People are curious about You Don't Mess with the Zohan but not enough to fork out $12 +. They might fork out $2 to $5 for VOD or a DVD rental. Even better, get the film onto a Superstation or something like that.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

yournamehere

I've been to a theater twice in the past twenty years. Both times were because the books were so good, I couldn't wait to see the movies - Silence of the Lambs and Jurassic Park.

Generally, though, I can wait for anything to come to HBO or Cinemax. I must admit, though, that I am tempted to go see Avatar on a big screen in 3D. As far as downloading movies - I'd rather wait and watch them in a much more comfortable chair than the one I'm sitting in right now. I did download the first two seasons of Burn Notice, though, and burned them to video CDs to watch in the living room.

As far as music goes, I don't buy - I download. For two reasons ; First, most of the music I download is "classic" rock, and I already purchased the vinyl thirty years ago. I figure paying once is enough. Second, although I like a lot of modern music, I haven't heard a CD that has more than two good songs on it in a long, long time. When bands start putting out CDs with 6 or 7 good songs on them, I'll start buying them again, but I'm not holding my breath.

__________________
If you want to avoid 95% of internet spelling errors:
"If your ridiculous pants are too loose, you're definitely going to lose them. Tell your two loser friends over there that they're going to lose theirs, too."
It won't hurt your fashion sense, either.

Charlatan

That's the beauty of buying the tracks online. You just buy the songs you like. Why bitch about not liking the other tracks when you no longer have to buy them if you don't want to. Regardless, just don't use it as an excuse to steal music.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

SSJTWIZTA

i illegally download music all of the time.

if the album is worth a shit, i'll usually have it on vinyl or in my cd rack. if not, then it goes to the recycle bin.

i literally have crates upon crates of albums that i only discovered thanks to p2p programs.

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

Baraka_Guru

You know, though, I don't see a lot of downloaders being particularly interested in downloading animated features or films based on Stephanie Meyer novels....

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Cynthetiq

I d/l what I can't catch on my Tivo. I buy what I want to own, which over time has netted me over 600+ DVDs. I'm not interested in re-buying the format for Blu-ray.

I actually stumbled upon owning close to 300 Selectavision discs and a player last year.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Wes Mantooth

Downloading illegal music and movies is really just the customers giving a big middle finger to the industry, or at least that's how I look at it.

Neither the music or movie industry has grasped that you can't just keep ripping off your customers and expect them to be faithful in return. If they priced based on quality or maybe didn't release every piece of crap that might make money I don't think illegal downloading would be any near as common as it is.

How many of us have gone out to buy a new CD and found it full of blatant filler along side of maybe 1 or 2 good songs? Or seen a trailer for a good movie and it turns out the only good parts where in the trailer and the rest is terrible? Neither industry seems to have any form of quality control and more often then not buying a movie or album feels like playing the lottery...you might get lucky and get something good, but more then likely you'll just wind up feeling like you wasted money. People are only going to put up with that for so long and when a tech comes along that offers the same garbage for free...well whats a customer to do? Sometimes you reap what you sew if you're only intention as a business is to make as much money as you can regardless of the quality of the product.

Personally I've stopped buying music and movies years ago, I've just been burned to many times...I have been getting into itunes in the last few years though, the prices are reasonable and being able to download the songs you want is a HUGE step in the right direction.

__________________

Charlatan

To me, iTunes and services like it (zunior.com is good for me) are the answer. You don't need to buy the whole CD. You can buy the track you want at a very reasonable price. Anyone downloading music illegally, using the excuse that they are trying to "stick it to the man", is an ass.

As for movies. Yes. Some movies suck, but that has always been the case. Your millage may vary. Using this as an excuse to steal content is just bullshit.


This is not to say that there are legitimate reasons to share content. To rip content. Etc. There are legit reasons to break copyright (such as copyright exists today). That said, blatant theft is just that and nothing more.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Wes Mantooth

Despite the way my post comes across I actually agree with you. I'm a musician myself and I know how hard it is to make money in music (oddly enough a lot of musicians still support illegal file sharing) and I can't in good conscience take food off somebodies table so to speak. The problem is that a lot people don't see it that way and are frustrated with quality and prices, and in theory I can't say as I blame them. Both industries blatantly use false advertising to sell sub par products at overblown prices and have continued to do so despite complaints from its own customer base. In turn people have been trying for years to get around paying for movies and music because they feel ripped off...and of course because some people are just greedy bastards.

I remembering sharing tapes when I was a kid because I couldn't afford every album I wanted, is that really any different? Taping songs from the radio, taping movies from television? Sharing with your friends? Both have been going on for decades for the same reasons. Both industries have been creating a pissed off customer base for generations, now that the tech has caught up they're paying the price. It may not make it ethically or morally right but these things are going to happen when you run a business that way, especially when you sell something people can't really get anywhere else. Neither industry is going to get much sympahty from me.

__________________

Shauk

I don't go to the theater because I don't really like having to get there early to get a good seat, not being able to adjust the volume to my liking, the occasional child who wont shut up, or the crying baby, the group of teenagers that are being jackasses, the extortionist food/drink prices.

I have a 46" HDTV sitting at my home with a 1TB drive dedicated to serving movies, music, and tv shows. I don't have to watch a single commercial, I don't have to hear a single distraction, I have the most comfortable seat in the house, i'm in control of the volume AND the temperature of the room, the floor isn't sticky, I can eat healthy food during the movie instead of utter junk, or I can order pizza, and I never have to hear "i don't have enough money" if I ask them if they want to come watch a movie.

There is a reason that netflix is and will continue to be the most popular service out there dealing in movies.

That said, I do "put out" and spend my money on blu-ray (overpriced as it may be) if the movie is a 5 star title in MY BOOK. I don't necessarily like what everyone else likes.

Manic_Skafe

I'll post more on this when I'm not so tired but the problem really lies in the fact that neither of the aforementioned industries know well enough how to compete against free and both are too inflexible and unwilling to admit that bankrupt and out of business is where they'll be if they don't learn to embrace the price point of no price point at all.

There's a reason that this years iPod offers twice as much storage capacity as last years model at the same price point and this reason is so far disconnected from the idea of filling that iPod at the cost of 99 cents per song that it almost goes without saying.

The fact that the blockbusters aren't the most popularly downloaded serves to further illustrate the obvious disconnect.

---------- Post added at 09:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:53 AM ----------

That's one way to look at it but I really don't think it's as much the result of a pissed off consumer base tired of being goaded into buying a crap album by a few good singles. People are more interested in music and media now than ever - the fact that these industries can't manage to convert all that interest into dollars is merely symptomatic of a failed industry too dumb to realize that the creation of a false sense of scarcity isn't going to work any longer.

I've given more time to watching poor quality, poorly acted, poorly edited (if at all) homemade multiple part series on Youtube than I'd give most blockbusters if the tickets were half the $12 ticket price they're charing in my city.

Free is not only where all the moneys at but where the survivals of their industries lie. They simply need to get with the times.

__________________
"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

Charlatan

Manic Skafe, I don't disagree with you.

I have seen some small independent bands make enough money to live on (not Madonna money but a living wage), giving some of their music away for free. They make their money touring and selling merchandise as well as licensing their music to films and tv commercials.

With music, this is a little easier to wrap one's head around as it is, relatively speaking, a lot cheaper to produce these days than it has been historically.

Film and television are another matter. Production of these cost a lot of money and unlike music are the medium (where as music is both live and recorded). I think rights holders are nuts (in any medium) to be aggressively prosecuting their fan base. They need to work out cheaper modes of earning revenue and distributing the final product. The traditional forms are costly to produce and distribute.

The next medium to go this way is the book, especially now that eReaders and iPads are about to make the electronic consumption of literature a lot easier.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Baraka_Guru

Yeah, we're going through this right now. I think the trick is passing the savings on cost of sales to consumers with digital distribution. You are seeing that to varying degrees with the ebook. Kindle books sell for $9.99, but iPad books will be selling for $12.99 I think. They can charge more than average because the main distribution options are either limited to very appealing.

Other ebook price points range from free or $0.99 to $7.99 or so. It's a bit confusing because in one store you will see that very variance between publishers or specific titles.

All this compared to around $9.99 to $11.99 for a mass market paperback, $19.99 to $25.99 for a trade paper back, and $29.99 and up for a hardcover (many of them being in the $30 to $40 range). *prices in the Canadian market

Regardless, as with any digital product, you still need to charge enough to cover your costs and, if you're lucky, turn a profit. The cost of printing, though a good chunk, it only one of many costs associated with producing a book. It's difficult to know how many copies of a digital product you'll sell because the distribution channels are so new, the consumption options are so new, the digital standards are so new (and changing). We're trying to figure it all out.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Goldie Wilson

I understand your point here, but in completely eliminating theater going, you cut out all the amazing things about the shared experience, too. I savor the whole theater ordeal -- it's a chance to get outside of your head and enjoy the ritual of it all. When you laugh at a brilliant joke by yourself at home, it's not the same as laughing at the same time as 100 people. The same thing goes for a shocking scare, or an emotional moment. The scope of the screen and presence of all those other people has a quality that doesn't translate to the small screen. And yeah, you run the risk of some talking kids or jerks on their phones, but if we're being honest doesn't that account for a tiny percentage of our actual movie-going encounters, and those are just the ones we focus on? I just think of it as the risk of human interaction and move on to enjoying myself.

My main worry about the "download culture" is that when we have everything available at our fingertips, easy, and (in many cases) free, it all becomes so...devalued. Now, at the risk of sounding REALLY old fashioned (I'm ONLY 26, yikes) I think there is a sense of ritual to the old process of going to the store and spending money for an item that you are going to enjoy. You had to interact with people: talk to the guy or girl at the record store about the new albums coming out this week, or a great show you were just at. You had the aforementioned shared laughs and shrieks with the audience at the movies.

I tend to look at downloading a different way -- not as a vote against a tyrannical and out of touch mega-industry, but as a vote against the independent record stores and movie theaters that are struggling in this economy as it is. (This is when the small business owner in me comes out full force.) I just can't help but see a really, really fine line between crusader against corporate injustice and person who wants things for free. It just gets so disheartening to talk to friends who have hard drives full of downloaded music and then tell me, "but I support them by going to see their shows!" Eh, I'd be one thing if they did, but going out to see a show every 6 months doesn't help help as much as you think.

I think "sampling," as a few of your brought up, is a great middle ground. There are all kinds of music blogs out there. NPR, Pitchfork, countless record lables have been streaming whole albums. Hell, youtube has plenty of music on it. The same thing goes for movies -- it's becoming more of a common practice for studios to put the first 10 minutes of a movie up for preview. But, when I make my decision, I BUY, and BUY LOCAL.

Charlatan

Bravo Mayor Wilson

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

evilmatt

I love, love, love going to the theater. Getting that bucket of buttered popcorn for $15 or whatever, a big ol' Cherry Coke and sitting back and taking in a good flick.

That said I've been to movie theaters about 3 times in the past 4 years. I download movies to my AppleTV and watch them on my HDTV. Well not just me, my wife, kids, friends, family... we all watch the movies on my HDTV. But honestly, I'm doing society a favor. I have two kids, ages 2 and 4. Our families are not exactly forthcoming in offers to watch them so my wife and I get maybe one date night every 2 or 3 months and rarely for enough time to drive to a theater, find parking, watch the flick and then drive home. Instead we grab dinner somewhere.

So instead of being "that parent" and bringing kids that are simply not well behaved enough to sit still for 90 - 120 minutes I download what I want to see and watch it in the comfort of my own home where my kids can run around, make as much noise as they want and we can pause the flick if a diaper needs changing.

So see? Service to society.

Shauk

Eh, the audience might serve as a laugh track. But it aggravates me too when people laugh at something that isn't funny.

The only noteworthy movie shared experience I can remember in my past right now is Borat and the naked hairy penis "notsex" scene. watching their faces was pretty golden.

But yeah for the most part, I invite friends over for the good movies so it's the quality, not the quantity I strive for.

oliver9184

FIVE WAYS TO IMPROVE THE THEATRICAL EXPERIENCE

From chud.com

I like going to the cinema and I plan on going more now that I can get in for less than £5 (= about $7) and films look better as film: at the cinema you're seeing THE image rather than a representation. Except for the Imax, or watching comedies, or when I'm drunk I prefer to go at quiet times. Kids messing about, making noise and sometimes inexplicably running in and out of the theatre sometimes come close to spoiling the experience. I've never had it but if there was a crying baby I think I'd go and have a word with staff. It's bad enough on the bus; in the cinema I wouldn't tolerate it. On Monday I went to watch Shutter Island - great film - and it was pretty quiet. One dude was at near the front and some more people were further back. I like it better at the front so I sat in front of the guy. I almost gagged as soon as I sat down - he didn't look it but he was the foulest, most rancid stinker I've ever smelled. I moved immediately about ten rows back and I could still slightly smell him throughout.

A few years ago I was at a cinema to see Spider-Man 2 in the morning of its release day and I was early, and the cinema wasn't quite open yet. Some kid was cleaning the windows and he asked me what I was going to see. I said, "Spider-Man 2". He said - dismissively! - "Ohhh, I saw that on pirate last night, it were shit." That made me want to push his numb skull through the window he just cleaned. If you see a pirate version of a spectacular film on a little screen, and you're a fucking moron anyway, guess what? It's going to be shit. Your life is shit. You shit. You are something even worse than shit. I didn't say that to him. I walked away, afraid he would say something about what happened in it. I wasn't expecting a whole lot from the film but it was utterly amazing - more so, I think, because of what that boy said and how wrong he was - and ended up in the #7 slot of my top 20 films of the decade.

Martian

What's interesting is the studies that show that the folks who download the most are the ones who typically spend the most on music, movies or other forms of entertainment. I'll see if I can dig some up, but the bottom line is that people who like to collect movies or music are going to do so through whatever avenues are available to them.

The problem with all the rhetoric about intellectual property and rights and theft and so on is that in my mind it fails to address reality. Saying that it will devalue the product is behind the times -- it already has devalued the product. The perceived value on all sorts of media is through the floor right now. When people can get stuff for free online in minutes and can carry a year's worth of music in their jacket pocket, the value of any one track drops to the point where it's virtually nonexistant.

What needs to be done, and what the smart content producers are already doing, is to find a way to exist in the new climate. Usually that involves adding value to the product in the form of things that can't be had elsewhere. Going to the cinema is a classic and still valid example, and 3D IMax theatres are even more so. At that point you're capitalizing on the experience as much if not more so than on the actual product.

Tangential revenue streams are another thing, and Charlatan has noted that a lot of independent musicians are making a decent living that way. Give the music away to increase the value of concert tickets, merchandise and so on.

These are not new ideas, by the way -- what we're talking about here is in essence what television has been doing for the last 60 years or so. Give away the content to attract an audience, then find a way to capitalize.

I'm confident these things will be resolved, and in the near future. Finding ways to make money are what these big corporations are good at.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Baraka_Guru

I work at home: so in an office with one employee (unless you count the dog and cats). Our TV is a 32" LCD (720p), but we have just regular cable and a normal DVD player hooked up to it. We use the TV speakers for sound, which is fine because our living room is small. We just replaced our 27" CRT set.

So for me, going to the theatre is a real treat. Big screen, big sound, big group of people. And as overpriced the food is, it's pretty good in that grody kind of way.

I too see the value of getting out of the house and experiencing a bit of entertainment, if not culture, with the public. At the same time, however, I will only do this if I'm fairly certain the film isn't a stinker. (Thank you, TFP and Metacritic.)

I'm of the opposite mind. It's not just canned laughter; it's human laughter and it fills the room. I see power in that.

I also realize that humour is subjective, so when someone laughs at something I don't find particularly funny (or awkward or disgusting, even), I can appreciate the fact that someone found it funny. In some ways, I'm entertained by that in itself. Laughter to me is usually a good thing.

That said, I don't get much satisfaction out of the idea of downloading things for consumption on a broad level, or even simply watching things on my own legitimately. I think reading and various video games are solitary experiences, but when I watch a film or television show, I prefer to watch it with a group, especially if it's a comedy. Bigger groups are more enticing to me.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Goldie Wilson

The list that Oliver posted is wonderful, thanks for that. A caveat to my "support the theater" plea is that some of them can be really painful to support. If the movie going experience is truly going to be marketed as an alternative to piracy, doing any/all of these things could be a huge boost.

I can personally attest to the joys of reserved seating. I used to live in Los Angeles and frequented the ArcLight quite a bit -- oh, what a wonderful, wonderful theater. When you bought your tickets, you were asked whether you preferred to sit in the back, middle, or front of the theater and then were presented your large tickets with your seat row and number printed on it. Then an usher would actually show you to your seat! And then an usher would address the whole theater, introduce the movie, tell a couple jokes, and inform us that he would be monitoring the picture and sound quality throughout the movie to make sure its perfect. It was such a nice touch of civility. And I can totally see this being implemented by theater chains across the country -- most of the time I just see the ushers hanging out anyway. Why not put them to work? It's a perfect "value adding" quality that Martian was talking about.

Haha! That works for both my user name's origins and the fact that it sounded like I was stumping for re-election on an anti-piracy platform, hah. I swear, this is really the only topic where my soapbox comes out.

Shauk

Well it seems you guys like big groups of strange people, but I guess after my 10 years of raves/clubs/DJ'ing I'm content to entertain myself away from people, because I know how douchey the general public can be in any setting that isn't their own home.

I agree with that list though, it would probably make me not hate the theater experience so much.

SSJTWIZTA

i fall into this category. like i said, i have milk-crates full of shit that i would have never bought if i didnt first download them and check them out on a p2p program.

mostly rare and indy vinyl i've bought off-line.

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

Wes Mantooth

I think this is vaguely what I was trying to say in my above tired, drunken post (lets just say I have a really UGLY dislike for all things music business). Neither industry had done much to keep up with the times or what its customer base really wants. For example the music industry really dropped the ball, they all but ignored the idea of mp3's and downloading until the market pretty much forced them to deal with it all the while ignoring complaints about about terrible albums (filler) and continuing to raise prices on cd's regardless of its promises to lower them. When the tech begin to out pace the product, instead of adapting to it, they fought hammer and nail to suppress it.

If they had embraced the technology and listened to their customers I'm not sure filing sharing would have take off the way it did. As you and others point out a lot of people downloading music/movies do it because they want to sample before they buy, in other words not drop $20 on something that is probably complete trash. The value placed on the products from both industries has never really matched the value placed on it by the customers and until they realize this and find other ways to capitalize (which they're starting to do) illegal file sharing will continue.

I don't know maybe its a case of an industry and its customers just being on two completely different pages for two long.

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Charlatan

I have to say that all cinemas have reserved seating here. At first, I found it very odd that I couldn't sit where I wanted. I have since come to fully appreciate it.

I can book online, days in advance and get exactly the seat (or pretty close) to where I want. If I show up at show time to buy a seat I am presented with a display of the available seats and can choose where to sit... or more importantly whether to buy a ticket if the only seats available are in the front row.

This is offered at *all* cinemas without exception.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Cynthetiq

I know Char, I loved that about Singapore.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

yournamehere

How will I know if I like them until I listen to them? It's not like the shitty tracks get a lot of airplay.

Besides, it may have changed since the last time I bought music legally, but I dislike the whole concept of DRM and losing a shitload of songs when you opt out of a service (Yes - I actually paid for Rhapsody for awhile. Lost every single song after I quit.)

In any case, I will go out and buy a CD if I think it's worthwhile, because it's usually better quality than the 128 mbps stuff that's available for download. Without having this devolve into a "my taste in music is better than yours" thread, I will say that I've bought a couple of CDs in the past few years - Owsley's The Hard Way, and Oasis' Dig Out Your Soul. Not a bad song among them, IMHO.

If a band can string together 6 or 7 decent songs, they'll get my money.

Also, nowadays - if you want to support a band, you'll be helping them a lot more by seeing them perform live than by buying their CD. It used to be that bands only toured to promote their albums; the promoters made most of the live performance money, but the bands made a lot from the sale of their albums. Now - it's the opposite - the bands make a shitload off of their concerts; but the recording companies make all the money from CD sales.

In my years of buying music and going to concerts, the cost of albums has gone up from $3 to around - what - about $12 for a CD now? Yet concerts have gone from $6 (The Doors, 1971) to anywhere from $50 to over $100 now.

__________________
If you want to avoid 95% of internet spelling errors:
"If your ridiculous pants are too loose, you're definitely going to lose them. Tell your two loser friends over there that they're going to lose theirs, too."
It won't hurt your fashion sense, either.

Reese

itunes is DRM free. They also offer 30 second previews. If you really can't decide if you like a song in 30 seconds I'm sure last.fm will let you listen to the full song 5-10 times for free.

__________________
“It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick” - Dave Barry

Charlatan

If you are still relying on the radio as your filter for music... you are doing it wrong. I listen to Internet radio, check out music blogs, podcasts, etc. to discover new music. These places either offer music streaming or links to places where I can listen to a given track.



I buy from DRM free sites such as Zunior.com. There are many others, including iTunes that offer DRM free downloads. As for the 128 mbps issue, Zunior.com, for an upgrade of around $2 will sell you a CD quality, DRM free file.


I generally agree with this but will also grab a cool song that I've heard, without picking up the full album. Call me cheap.

I also agree with you about live performance being the way bands are generating revenue these days. If you want to support a band... seeing them live is the best way to do so. And that is especially true here, where so few bands tour.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Xerxys

I think sampling is quite legit. I have bought music CD's and gone to show's. If going to a show once every six months does not help then I assume buying one CD only once doesn't either. I also watch movies more than once. For example, I own the Matrix Trilogy (still in it's plastic wrapping) but also downloaded on my hard drive as well. I watch it from time to time (speed through to the fighting scenes ). I also saw it on big screen. Same for 300 and 30+ other DVD's all in collectors edition condition.

>>Linky

Xerxys

passthru

Hmm, I apparently never noticed this thread. I only got half way down, to Goldie Wilson, and had lost count of the posts I wanted to quote, so..

They must be hearing that from the studios and going along with it. There was a great line graph at dontbuycds.org that showed CD sales along with the rise and fall of the original Napster. Sales were increasing with Napster's popularity, then upon shutdown took a sharp dive. I download stuff I'm unsure about, but rarely don't buy something I like.

I disagree because the quality at mainstream theaters, the only ones who have big new releases, is often questionable as well. Sometimes one auditorium is fine and another is close to unusable, but for some reason they'll put a new movie in the crappy auditorium on opening night and so I listened to 2 hours of static from one side. Also, chatter and simultaneous laughter are fine, but multiple threats of violence, in front of children no less, are not.

Funny thing. I'm 26, and for years I heard those old folks joke that vinyl was better than CD's us youngins like. That's actually true. Find a CD that says it's remastered and was published recently, and a CD from the 80's or older. Play each without changing the volume, and you'll notice the new one is louder. I don't know enough about sound waves to describe this properly, but for some type of experiment studios decided to modify the waves to increase the volume. The downside is that detail in the music is lost. One studio went back to CD's with correct complexity to the recording, but received numerous complaints about low volume from customers. Why pay again, for music that isn't better, or may be worse than your old copy?

I would object to the paying for MP3's, since the compression is old, outdated, and terrible compared to other audio compression, but since music CD's are lower quality now than they were when they were invented there's not much to complain about.

Off the top of my head.. I have to contact WB to find out how to get the expensive Blu-Ray I bought, because they gave me a duplicate of a bonus disc instead of the actual movie. Rootkits are, uh, not good; good move, Sony. I also love when I put in a movie and try to hit Menu, Next, etc. because I want to watch the damn movie, but it's been disabled. None of those are monetary but they all are a pain in the ass.

As for iTunes.. I don't dislike the concept, but considering its legality it is a bit on the BS side. Unless you hate The Beatles.

---------- Post added at 05:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:15 PM ----------

Had to come back for some more ranting. Sorry if that's what most of these two posts are..

They treat their fan base so poorly that there was a comic where a man comes to the beach and talks to two people, using metaphors representing industry actions, the last of which was peeing on the fans.. and it resulted in everybody laughing because of its accuracy.

Going to a show helps a hell of a lot more than buying an album. The group itself gets much less than a dollar per album sold.

Food at independent theaters is of much higher quality, and its pricing and selection is similar to any decent restaurant, so no complaints about that. However, last time I got food of the "grody" kind at the common theater, it gave me diarrhea so strong that my thigh seemed to spasm and I missed the end of the movie. I stopped buying whatever that stuff really is, but still get a layer of something sticky across the sole of my shoe. The staff is either incompetent or they don't care. I bet lots of people are really irritated by these things. You're lucky, it sounds like the theaters in your town are wonderful.

Xerxys, that story reminded me of a great RIAA attack on piracy. Remember when the fastest CD burners were around 12x and 16x? Then all of a sudden faster ones came out!?! It was some sort of "advancement" in technology.. I didn't know there were advancements in technology.
Anyway, the RIAA made some weird official statement using the number of CD burners to determine how much money they lost. However, they lied about the number of CD burners because the burners were faster than what was "normal" (e.g. 10 40x burners were found which is 5 times faster than the 8x average, so there were 50 burners). This was to their advantage because the number of burners was what determined their loss, a speed increase did not. I think the burners weren't being constantly used around the clock; the faster speed made burning a set of pirated CD's quicker, rather than the total number larger.