Sun Tzu

My mother has a male friend who is gay. This man was in a 12 year marriage in which he and his wife had a daughter. He is person that makes it a point to let everyone know wherever he is that he such. After the divorce his daughter lived between the two of them. Last week his daughter told the mother she was gay. Now the mother is infuriated feeling she won’t have grandchildren and blames the father for instilling this lifestyle in his daughter.

I personally have nothing against someone that chooses to be gay. (Yeah I’m one of the persons that believe it’s a choice vs. an inherited gene). I can’t say I exactly have any close gay friends, but each to their own as far as I’m concerned. Something I do feel split on are gay couples adopting children. I have this picture of 2 gay males adopting a baby boy; my first thought is to disagree with it. I’m not stating that it would be a home without love or security, but would the outcome be predictable?


This post isn’t to state how things SHOULD be. I’m just looking for feedback to hearing other viewpoints and hopefully consider a view I may have not thought about. Thanks for the input. For any that are gay out there it’s not meant to offend.

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Nefir

IMHO there's nothing wrong with a couple of gay people adopting a kid. They are people too, and just like with everyone else, there are some bad apples in every bunch. The rules of adoption and the screening shouldn't really be any different for two gay men than for a man and a women. I am not gay, nor have any close gay friends, but I can imagine what it must feel liike some times to be treated differently just cause someone is jumping to conclusions (whether the treatment is better or worse, I don't care).

Some people seem to be afraid that the gay parents would somehow "mess up" their adopted child, or "make him/her gay", but how would that be any different than fearing a straight couple would mess up their kid, or that kid turning out gay anyway (or, something actually bad, like a wife-beater, rapist or child molester)?

Dunno, its really no big deal to me. Just let the people adopt if they pass the screening, without worrying about their sexual orientation.

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SiN

sounds reasonable.

(i've honestly no idea what criteria are required in general for adoption...but one thing that comes to mind is perhaps gay marriage should be legally allowed first? as in, if a married couple is quite more likely to be able to adopt, well then that obstacle would need to be removed first...)

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lordjeebus

Considering the number of children in need of loving adoptive parents, I think its societally irresponsible to prevent a couple from adopting on grounds of their sexual orientation. I don't think that people could choose to be gay (please tell me how I could go about becoming gay), and even they could, I wouldn't think that it would be a bad thing to be exposed to gay parents. And even if that exposure was a bad thing, kids are going to be exposed to gay people in the community anyway.

StormBerlin

I honestly believe that a gay couple should be able to adopt. But I also agree with what Nikki said, that they should allow gay marriages first. I think that is part of the criteria for adopting children is that it has to be a married couple, if I'm not mistaken. I would rather a child grow up with gay parents than grow up with straight parents and have the kid one-hundred times more screwed up, "but at least he's straight" kind of a mentality that alot of people have.

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Sun Tzu

Well its another area of the topic, and I think if I commented in any further detail I probably would offend some. I think its a choice how to act upon it is obvious. I understand where your point is and have weighed that side, I just humbly disagree.

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ninety09

I voted no. I think children need a father and a mother.

lordjeebus

I know a lot of people raised by a single-parent who are just as well adjusted as people raised by a father and a mother. The government's not about to outlaw single-parenthood. I don't see how being raised by two mothers would be worse than being raised by one.

Halx

of course they should

also, having gay parents doesn't make you more likely to turn out gay, if tthat's one of your concerns.

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Journeyman

Never quote my statistics, but I remember hearing in psych 100 that the percentage of people who were raised by a same-sex couple and end up homosexual themselves are less than the population in general.

CSflim

I guess in a perfect world, I would like to see every child having both a mother figure, and a father figure.

This is far from a perfect world. Having two loving parents, is a far better situation to be in, than spending your early years living in some shitty orphanage.

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Halx

If I understand you right, you're saying there is statistically less of a chance of someone turning out gay if they are raised by gay parents.

This sounds correct.

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ratbastid

And imagine (setting aside this "choice" nonsense) that the child DOES turn out to be gay. Imagine how much easier it'll be for that child to deal with that, having a model right there of acceptable homosexuality.

And no, children don't need a model of acceptable heterosexuality. They get that plenty in the world at large.

ARTelevision

I believe a lot of issues people have are family issues.
A lot of hetrosexual families are dysfunctional.
A lot of anger and frustration under the surface of many hetrosexual relationships, you know.
Many hetrosexuals stay together but create tense environments for kids to grow up in.
A lot of hetrosexual marriages are messed up, man.


Gay couples couldn't do any worse.

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BoCo

No, absolutely not, under any circumstances.

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Nimbletoe

Sexual orientation shouldn't even be considered. It's all about the person and how they are going to treat the child. Case and point, I have a gay uncle and gay aunt, both of which raised a child. My aunt is an alchoholic and was abusive, but less openly gay. Her kid (my cousin) didnt go to college, barely finished highschool, is 19, doesn't have a job, car, license even...

My gay uncle's son is getting a 4.0 in highschool, is doing very well for himself, and has a loving, caring very openly homosexual uncle. Its my opinion that the only people who would be opposed to it are ignorant people who have had no exposure to anyone with a homosexual lifestyle that is a better human being than most heterosexuals.

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Batman976

Sign me up as a 'yes' vote. My sister is gay and has a son. She's due to have another child in March. She was artificially inseminated but I don't really think that makes a difference. Either way, I stand behind her 100 percent.

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DownwardSpiral

If they wanna adopt let them.

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spectre

Couldn't have put it better myself.

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JBX

How could a loving home not be better than a foster home? Same background checks everyone else gets.

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tinfoil

I didn't have a father for most of my childhood and I think I turned out perfectly fine.

If the gay parents-to-be pass the same screen test that regular parents have to pass, I see no problems with it.

Will living in such a situation tend to influence a child's sexual orientation? Not if the parents are responsible, no.

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Gortexfogg

I'd much rather see kids with gay parents than kids with out parents. So many kids are up for adoption these days, the more parents willing to adopt, the better.

Destrox

For the first 5-8 years of his/her life, who cares.

Later on, It will become a massive burden to the child.

Its still not socially accepted in many places, including my city. We're old fashion, and i dont see that changing anytime soon.

Gay just doesnt fly well, and to have them raise a kid is just that much more *iffy*

I voted case by case, because there are some ways this could work out, but also many that couldnt.

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Neato

I voted yes, my reasons more than covered here.

Would the people who voted no offer some sort of reasoning? I can't help but assume from the lack of support for their opinions, it is a rather ignorant reason.

"I voted no. I think children need a father and a mother."

Why? Millions of children are raised with one or the other, and these single parents often struggle to provide a nice home for their child(ren). And adoption takes children from a situation were they have NO parents, and AFAIK often can end up living in group homes their whole lives. Throughout high school I got a pretty bad image of group homes, in the instances I know of these children were most definatly not being raised "properly," most any loving couple could raise a child better while providing a more suitable home and loving environment.

Not every child who is put up for adoption is adopted, right? Then anyone should be allowed to adopt if they pass a screen-test.

And why is whether or not the child will be gay when they grow up even considered in this? Is that a bad thing? It shouldn't be unless you have something against gay people.
I understand that the human race needs to have reproduction to continue, but there will never be so many gay couples that the human race is put in danger, and even if everyone in the world became gay we could artifically inseminate.

SLIMM

my dad is gay and he did a hwll of a job raising me!
if it werent for him i hate to think what kind of condition i may be in today!
matter of fact,i learned more about life from living with my dad then i ever did from my christian mom!


christians tought me that everyone "secular" was evil!
my gay dad tought me that there is no reason to hate for such minute reasons!

in my experiance i would say gays make better parents than straights so they should be able to adopt!
dr.laura can kiss my ass!

Lunchbox7

What does it matter what sexual prefernce a parent has? They are human beings with thoughts and feelings totally seperate from sexual desires. A child can have two loving parents who just happen to be gay as well. With the amount of single parents in todays society the arguement that a child needs a father and a mother is void. Many children have one parent and grow up Ok if that parent gives a loving supportive environment. A gay couple have twice as much ability to provide that environment. I see no reason why a gay person cant be a good parent.

mystmarimatt

Yes. there have been no studies proving that a child raised by a gay couple is any worse off than one raised by a straight couple. and, to put it as best i can, i'd rather "take my chances" by letting a loving gay couple, who honestly want to raise a kid, adopt one, rather than placing them into the hands of an abusive straight couple for foster care (which, we don't like to admit, DOES happen)

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Sun Tzu

Even though I don’t have friends on a direct level that are gay, one of my best friends father is. His parents got divorced before he was born for that reason. He is not gay. (He confided this info to me 2 years ago- I’ve known him for 11) Although I think he's become numb to it, I know he still feels shame that he said he had gotten over years ago. He said growing up it’s not anything he could have told his heterosexual guy friends "the guys". I tried to understand; why would 11-17 y/o heterosexual males give him shit just because his dad is gay? He started talking to him 3 1/2 years ago off and on because he said when he first really clicked on to what it meant when he was young he didn’t want anything to do with him (until recent years)

I met his dad and I saw him as an extremely kind and honorable person. A couple of his friends were there and I felt a little discomfort in how they were looking at me-- but that obviously is a personal issue on my part. Other than that I feel bad for both of them because I can see it’s a personal issue to my friend that eating away at him and for his dad because I know he loves him very much (or at least what I saw) They don’t speak now.

So hers the only personal experience a friend with one gay parent that was raised by the straight parent, and the daughter of an acquaintance who spent a large portion of her time with the gay parent and is gay. Is there something wrong with that? No.

I know Rosie O’Donnell has several children and appears to be providing a great home for her children. The comments about a family with heterosexual parents are absolutely right. That situation doesn’t stop alcoholic moms, abusive fathers, painful divorces, and an assortment of other nightmares. In my case; having 2 hetero parents that provided a good home, with me still ending up getting suspended for fighting left and right and other darker, things. If it weren’t for the rude awakening I got in the service; Id probably is dead right now. So I know first hand having a conventional situation doesn’t mean someone is going to turn out good.

My question/point/ or whatever stems from what I saw with the girl and what I experienced at my friends dad's with his friends. So it out me on the highway of generalizing which I truly don’t like.
In the same perfect world that’s been described; is it the same perfect world where a majority of peers befriended growing up would be totally accepting and not offer ridicules and similar; creating another element that a teen already faces now.

It can be said sure they're not people one would want to have as friends anyway, but I don’t know how far the isolation would go. A person can hear some pretty cruel things as the blossom into a person, from what I gather sometimes the scars can run deep. The other aspect is in watching this lifestyle does that detract what the child would have been through learned behavior. (This is why I brought up the choice issue--I worded different than I wanted to or should have.

Analogy- in Star Trek there was a prime directive that prevented involvement with a species development to protect what would possibly naturally occur.

If there were a little boy being raised by my friend’s dad, there would not be an absence of love or security. There would however be a situation that’s an atmosphere in which it would be hard for me to see the boy not becoming gay himself.

Personally I strive to be a nonjudgmental, open minded person. I suppose I fall into the ignorant percentage that’s been commented on, but I’m doing my best to understand. I know a closed mind will miss endless chances to learn and grow in life. Hearing feedback in this format is a tool I often use for certain areas I feel I need guidance from others that may have suggestions on how to understand certain things (which is great about this forum) thanks for the input each post is valued.

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Sun Tzu

Have there been any studies into this area? Do you know any that have been in this situation?

(I hope those questions don’t come across as me being a smartass, I sincerely and respectfully want to know for knowledge sake-thanks)

After reading the posts over again; a realization occurred in the fact my own thinking in this area is the same irritation I get when dealing or hearing someone who actions or beliefs are prejudice against an ethnic group, religious beliefs, or sex. I find such beliefs to be ignorant, and yet I’m there as well. To lower myself; I don’t seem to have any problem with lesbian erotica. So it appears it’s time for me to do a self inventory I suppose.

This is the first thread I wish I wouldn't have post. Although it’s provided me with thoughts to evaluate, I think the subject probably shouldn’t have been brought up now. Sorry if I offended anyone.

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Reese

I think any person willing take a child into their home and love and care for them should be able to adopt.. There are thousands of kids waiting to be adopted. A gay couple and take raise a child just as good as a straight couple, and more children are being put up for adoption than are being adopted, I think we need to take any step nessesary to get these kids into good homes.

I also think gay marriage should be legal. I have no idea what happens if a gay couple that share a house and belonging seperate, who gets the house, if children are adopted are there visitation rights? There needs to be some kind of legal agreement to sort this out.

I vote yes.

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fuzzix

While those with 'yes' votes have raised some really good points, I'm still going to vote 'no'. I don't think it's fair on the kid, they'll grow up to a life of being teased at school because of their parents (sad, but true) there'll be complications when they decide they want to track down their biological mother or father, it's juts going to make life tougher for the kid than it needs to be. I'm sure many gay people would make superb parents who would raise their kids really well, but I still don't think it's fair on the kid.

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ratbastid

Nonsense. It may look regrettable after the fact, but that's because a doorway to a new area of self-evaluation ALWAYS looks like a bad idea. It's not, though.

I applaud your openness to other viewpoints. And I, as a TFP member, am proud of this thread.

lurkette

That's a silly excuse for not letting someone adopt. Should we not let funny-looking people adopt, or people with funny-sounding last names? Face it, kids will find something to tease other kids about regardless of their family situation.

Quote:

there'll be complications when they decide they want to track down their biological mother or father

Why would this be any more complicated than any other adopted child tracking down their bio parents? Often, gay couples adopt very openly and the bio mother at least knows of the situation. Again, potential complication is no reason to deny a child a loving home.

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Sleepyjack

yes, we're all people.

Also, are single people allowed to adpot children?

Hash_Browns

I'm just wondering how the parents being homosexual is going to make this any harder then it already is?? I am only asking because from what I have seen (which is only in movies) this information is not something you can just go into a building and get with ease even with straight adopting parents.

I haven't voted yet, because I was reading, and then quoted this because it just caught my mind's eye. I will however be voting yes on a case-case basis. Meaning as long as they pass the test, then they should be able to adopt, just as any other situation! As for the mother/father comments, I would just like to say that just because the couple may be gay, doesn't mean they don't assume the same kind of roles that any couple has. Meaning there will be a mother figure and father figure when it comes to issues and how they are handled.

I know a woman who is gay and is raising two children, one boy and one girl. Her son is as cocky as any teenager I have met, and I will admit he holds some grudges, but she is his mother and he respects her as such. Kids get made fun of for many many reasons, and yes this might be another one, But if these kids are raised by responsible parents then they will be able to deal with it just like any other kid who's parents work at a dive bar, or have drinking problems....or whatever the kids come up with to make fun of them for!!

I also agree that the kids that are rasied by loving parents, and deal with these issues on a daily basis and can still love and be happy and show their kids its possible no matter what, have a better chance at being more level headed and less judgemental in the future which in MHO couldn't hurt a bit these days!!

Sorry that was a bit long, but there you go...

And this is a great topic and I for one am glad to have been a participant

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Holo

absolutely...any kid in a stable loving home is better than in foster care or an abusive "str8" home. Gay couples generally are richer than hetero couples as a group, and maybe even more nurturing as most gays I've known are more in touch with who they are than most hets I've known. If the mom is mad she wont get any grandkids, too fucking bad!!!!!! I really despise this parental expectation to continue the bloodline. Family should be about love and what you consider a family should work for you. My daughter isn't legally or biologically mine but damned if she doesn't call me Daddy and I don't care if my dad tells me I'm the last male in the family line. All that shit is less than worthless to me. Best thing any child can ever have is loving and stable parents.

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World's King

Apparently once you fall in love with someone of the same sex you are no longer a human.

I don't get it. All kids need is love and compassion to be raised right. I've never met a homosexual that was not capable of love and compassion. I think it comes out of the fear that all gay men are petaphiles. That if two gay men adopt a boy they will molest it.

And really the only harm that could come out of this is two lesbians will teach their adopted kids to like all that shit Lilith Fair music. And the last thing this world needs is Jewel to become popular again.

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meepa

I don't think the problem is that some child has gay parents. I think the problem is that homosexuality is still pretty taboo in the country, and a lot of people are biggoted against it. So when there is a child who is raised by gay parents, he/she will probably get a ton of shit for it by his peers, their parents, and any other disgruntled homophobe in the community. This is the problem with the situation, but I do not think it is a valid reason to hate on the idea. The more often it occured, then the more familiar it would be, and eventually it wouldn't weird so many people out and the problem would be solved.

I think some other people might have covered this in previous posts, but now I have spoken!!!

Hash_Browns

I agree with you meepa, in the sense of if it happens more it will be less of a problem. I also think that the children who are in these situations may come out stronger because of their fight. I'm not saying let's let homosexual couples adopt to rid the world of stereotypes, just that I feel that if they are fighting to be parents they will fight to teach their child how to stand up and be heard, not stampled over....I hope that reads ok

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sexymama

I am suprised no one has addressed the idea that the girls mentioned by Sun Tzu's first post is gay. If in fact being gay is genetic (which I believe it is) then of course she has a higher chance than most of being gay herself. Her gay father did not "make her" that way. He may have just made it easier for her to accept her own sexuality.

As for adoption, absolutely yes! Gay people have a huge burden to face in society -- not being easily accepted. I do not know a gay man or woman that wishes that burden upon their children. They desire their children, just like straight parents, to grow up happy & healthy, and to be productive members of society. Not one of my gay friends (and yes, I have many) have raised their children to be gay themselves.

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