Gay couples adopting children - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

mattevil · 10-12-2003, 10:11 PM

i think gays should definetly be allowed to have kids. like many have said a loving home is better than the orphange or foster home. i can see circumstances that could hurt the child becuuase of the parent s being gay like being teased at school.I heard a girl once say that she traumatised by her father having sex with his partner in the next room right after their parents broke up. but really both of those problems really arne't related to the father being gay as much as problems in society and bad parenting respectfully.

Lyaec123 · 10-13-2003, 06:42 AM

NO! do you have any idea how much the kid would get harassed? that's not something you can put on a kid who doesn't know has no choice in it, they will be affected by it for the rest of their lives. Gay couples aren't natural... they can't physically produce kids, therefore something tells me they aren't meant to have them...

George W Bush · 10-13-2003, 10:42 AM

A tough subject demanding political correctness; voted no. I will admit all I have to go on is how I think I would react or what kind of life I think I would have had. Ive accidently walked in on my folks in the past; not that I cared to get anymore of the accidental glimpse of the site- if it would have been my dad going at it with another man. . .no comment

I guess Im a little backwards, but thats due to me not knowing anyone who is gay. Do gays truly try to adopt? Im not inquiring to ridicule anyone, but is anyone that voted yes gay themselves? Im just wondering what their perspective is; if they see any potetnial problems that mya differ from someone who is straght. Would they hide their physical affection in front of the child; keeping that aspect "hidden". Kind of like the conventional goodbye kiss in the morning when spouses go their seperate directions and such. Let's say a boy doesnt turn out to be gay and he has 2 gay fathers; will they go to football games and cheer for their son? Would their son even be on a team.

they are pointless scenerios that dont mention anything about love, but I can think of thousands more just like them that would give me a difficult time, but again it boils down to me not understanding. I suppose beyond everything if a person is true to their word and themselves everything else is secondary and workable.

If anyone here is gay and deosnt have a problem saying so Im trying to understand when you say a person doenst choose to be gay. SO is it just like me for instance not really ever making a chioice that a females body turns me on; they just do. If I were gay males would just do it for me? Or is it a curiosity thing that one day a person decides to act upon? I dont understand. Thats not to say Im not trying to.

eple · 10-13-2003, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lyaec123
NO! do you have any idea how much the kid would get harassed? that's not something you can put on a kid who doesn't know has no choice in it, they will be affected by it for the rest of their lives. Gay couples aren't natural... they can't physically produce kids, therefore something tells me they aren't meant to have them...

That is fucking bs and provokes me immensely. How about dentists? Ugly people? Poor people? Teachers? (i grew up with teacher parents, but it turned out ok in the end). As previously mentioned, kids will always tease and harass each other, to conquer discrimination against homosexuals, we have to face the problem. In Norway adoption is legal (or at least accepted, one of our most popular authors are living in a lesbian relationship with a child), we are not facing disturbing numbers of cases involving children raised by homosexuals being harassed.

Your arguement is nothing but gay bashing camouflaged as concern for the children.

With regards to the original poster, who believes that homosexuality is a choise, I wonder how he can explain a good freind of mine who have been in love with girls since her crush on her female teacher at the age of 7? Is this just an example if an early infection of teh gay?

filtherton · 10-13-2003, 11:56 AM

My father is gay. He didn't come out until my brother and i were in our teenage years. I'm just fine. If anything my father's gayness only served to make me a stronger person. I developed a keen understanding of just how much fear and misunderstanding play a role in how people treat eachother. It is easy to be homophobic until you actually see that homosexuals are people too. I voted yes, because to vote any other way would be a proclamation of ignorance, an endorsement of or pandering to that ignorance.

Redlemon · 10-13-2003, 12:05 PM

I voted YES, but have nothing additional to add to the insighful YES votes that have preceeded me.

thejoker130 · 10-13-2003, 12:33 PM

Much as i would like to say "Absoluty!" i think that like adoption is now for hetero couples it should vary case by case.

Ashton · 10-13-2003, 12:37 PM

I'm going to have to say no, I think kids have enough crap to deal with growing up in this world...... not only would they be ostersized and picked on by many of their peers, they would have to deal with the fact that even if excepted many parents wouldn't let their kids have friends with gay parents.

It may be wrong, but there's no doubt these things would happen.

mattevil · 10-13-2003, 12:45 PM

look i see whre you guys are comin from with the whole they'll have a rough time growing up if their parents are gay but do you honestly think they'll have an easier time in a foster home or orphanage?

WhoaitsZ · 10-13-2003, 01:04 PM

They should be allowed to raise children. Anyone who can raise a child with love and the kids have food, water, shelter, and school should be able to raise a kid.

If the parents are gay or straight is obviously up for question on what their kid’s sexuality may be, but considering how many simply awful shit holes kids are raised in more than justifies some odd living environment.

Right now, like in our whole past, kids need love and an actual home. Our arguing over if gay love is right or wrong while kids are living or dying in bad environments is nothing short of stupid and ridiculous.

And, my ‘brothers or sisters in Christ’ don’t you think taking away free will is just a tad bit fucked up? You’re wanting to rid man of the of about the only gift God gave us besides life is, in a word, lame.

WhoaitsZ · 10-13-2003, 01:07 PM

oh yeah. the whole 'we don't want the kids laughed at' bit is ludicrous. kids are made fun of. accept it. life happens.

if you're fat, they make fun of you. if you're skinny, white, black, gay, straight, nice, cruel, christian, muslin whatever. if you're a fucking human people will make fun of you.

use your time on protecting them against things you can actually do.

dy156 · 10-13-2003, 01:58 PM

Some of this has been said before, and I echo some of those thoughts, but here is my viewpoint.
I'm for it, but with a caveat that there needs to be more checking the couple out before letting them adopt. Sorta like race can be used as a factor in college admissions, but in the reverse. Being gay should not exclude a couple that wants to adopt, but should be a negative factor.
Reasons for my caveat:
most gay couples don't last as long as marriages. Most have not had a marriage ceremony, and the state should view them the same as a nonmarried boyfriend/girlfriend.
Reasons I think it's okay:
There are alot more kids that need adopting than there are parents who want to adopt, especially kids that aren't white infants. If someone wants to love them and take care of them, I'm for it.

I don't think you could be raised gay. Just like I don't think any life changing experiences could make me gay, or gay people heterosexual, I think it's something one is born with. I bet it's not easy being gay(cue Kermit), and Gay parents that really loved their kid would want what's best for them, and so I bet would try, if anything, harder than other parents to not raise gay kids.

Sledge · 10-13-2003, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ashton
I'm going to have to say no, I think kids have enough crap to deal with growing up in this world...... not only would they be ostersized and picked on by many of their peers, they would have to deal with the fact that even if excepted many parents wouldn't let their kids have friends with gay parents.

It may be wrong, but there's no doubt these things would happen.

Quote:

Originally posted by Lyaec123
NO! do you have any idea how much the kid would get harassed? that's not something you can put on a kid who doesn't know has no choice in it, they will be affected by it for the rest of their lives. Gay couples aren't natural... they can't physically produce kids, therefore something tells me they aren't meant to have them...

None of which is going to change until there are enough families like this to make it more "normal."

Obviously, I voted yes.

Sun Tzu · 10-13-2003, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eple
With regards to the original poster, who believes that homosexuality is a choise, I wonder how he can explain a good freind of mine who have been in love with girls since her crush on her female teacher at the age of 7? Is this just an example if an early infection of teh gay?

In America; "land of the free" why have equal rights in this area been so late to be recognized? On homosexuality itself I admit to not understanding it, but am the first NOT to say "its wrong", because I comprehend Im not any kind of entity to make such a judgement. There are IMO, a couple additional considerations that a gay couple may consider in adopting, but the same for a single parent as well.

As far as explaining the choice factor: its admittingly difficult for me to do, because even if Im humble about it; the potential is there that some are going to read it wrong. Im already seeing this conversation titering on setting some people off. So is it possible to give an opinion, or to ask for ways to attempt to understand without it being taken as "gay bashing". I will say this; for this to ever become an accepted reality, conversations like this are going to HAVE to happen; and the reality is that there is probably just as many "ignorant" people in high places that will fight to prevent this as there are "enlightend". There is a philosophy in exsistence that when an indivual becomes inflamed even by what is seen as back asswards mindsets that their power is given away, the point missed, and nothing changed.

Ths is only a guess because I'll attempt not to assume what someone else is thinking: if sexual preference is not choice it is therefore a genetic predispostioned biomarker of life. I've been doing research (internet which is admittingly limited) and most of the work in this area that I found in stating the genetic factor were gathered by Gabriel Rotello. I was unable to find full documented studies; in any can find the link or suggest published sociologic, medical, or anthropologic studies Id be greatful if you could suggest them. Thanks.

Some quotes that stood out on this search were:

To date, no researcher has claimed that genes can determine sexual orientation. At best, researchers believe that there may be a genetic component. No human behavior, let alone sexual behavior, has been connected to genetic markers to date. —PFLAG (Parents, Families & Friends of Lesbians And Gays), "Why Ask Why: Addressing the Research on Homosexuality," 1995

[Dr. Richard] Isay's goal in endorsing the genetic determination of homosexuality is to ensure that homosexual men are not pathologized simply on the basis of their same-sex desire. It is his hope that acceptance of the "gay gene" will imbue homosexuality with the same "natural" status accorded reproductive heterosexuality. (Perhaps this is why he disregards the abundant literature criticizing the research he cites.) However, this strategy can never work, because what Isay ignores, or believes he can somehow bypass, is that reproductive sexuality (conflated with heterosexuality) is the absolute bedrock of biologically deterministic theory. Without the cornerstone of a biologically inevitable reproductive sexuality, there would be no mechanism to guarantee the transmission of genes, and that is precisely the point of biological determinism. The biological inevitability of reproductive sexuality is the principle without which biological determinism would fall apart. Reproductive heterosexuality is not simply another trait that is genetically transmitted; it is the foundational principle of the entire theory. It must be presumed as the imperative of life itself for the transmission of biological traits to even be possible. Given this fundamental and exalted position, it is difficult to see how reproductive sexuality and homosexuality can ever be presumed "equal" but "different" within a biologically deterministic framework. The logic of biological determinism can only debase homosexuality as deviant—precisely the position Isay is striving to counter. —Ona Nierenberg, "A Hunger for Science: Psychoanalysis and the 'Gay Gene,'" differences, Vol. 10, No. 1

In the early 90's, three highly publicized studies seemed to suggest that homosexuality's roots were genetic, traceable to nature rather than nurture. . . . More than five years later the data have never been replicated. [And,] admits biologist Evan Balaban, "I think we're as much in the dark as we ever were." —John Leland and Mark Miller, "Can Gays 'Convert'?" Newsweek, p. 49, August 17, 1998

To my mind, a more parsimonious and unifying evolutionary explanation for human homosexual behavior is that it is a neutral, concomitant by-product of direct selection for a more generalized trait such as sexual pleasure. In line with this reasoning, it will frequently be manifested for no other reason than sexual gratification. In such cases, homosexual behavior will have no evolutionary "function." So long as such interactions do not interfere with the actors' reproductive efforts, they will not be selected against. As part of a pool of neutral behavioral variation homosexual behavior could, however, be co-opted to serve any number of sociosexual roles (e.g. alliance formation, reconciliation) that mght incidentally augment the participants' fitness. In such cases, homosexual behavior could best be described as an "exaptation," that is, a characteristic which was not built by natural selection for the fitness-enhancing role that it currently serves but instead was co-opted for that role. Although exaptations are not the products of direct selection, they may eventually come under positive selection because of their beneficial effects on fitness, at which time secondary adaptive modifications will occur. —Paul L. Vasey, commentary on "The Evolution of Human Homosexual Behavior" by R. C. Kirkpatrick, from Current Anthropology, Vol. 41 No. 3, June 2000

The genetic theory of homosexuality has been generally discarded today. . . . Despite the interest in possible hormone mechanisms in the origin of homosexuality, no serious scientist today suggests that a simple cause-effect relationship applies. —William H. Masters, Virginia E. Johnson and Robert C. Kolodny, Human Sexuality

One of the central things here [in a discussion of "gay gene" research] is the feeling of love towards other persons. I think that a central "force" in human evolution [has] been the evolution of love. That feeling [has] been the cement in a whole lot of human relationships, man-woman, parent-child, among close kin, among friends etc, etc. In fact, in all those relationships that makes us human, and is the foundation of all that came after in terms of culture, arts, science and you-name-it. I think that the only thing that makes homosexuals different is that they have chosen to include sexual desire and perhaps satisfaction in the love between to persons of the same sex. In short, the only thing setting a pair of homosexuals apart from a pair of same sex friends, is that the homosexuals have sex together. . . . I think it is an extremely reductionist approach, to discuss homosexuality as different and excluded from other forms of sexuality and emotional b[o]nding between humans. If you want me to be honest, then I will even go as far as to say that approach is so reductionist, that it in my eyes is not honest science anymore. If you want to understand homosexuality biologically, then you have to understand in terms of the total[ity] of human sexuality and emotions. —Henrik Ernoe, posted in soc.culture.nordic, March 17, 1997

For me it doesnt truly matter, and I believe that when others read my post they connected dots in what they may have thought I was stating. Whether it is choice or not; agree or disagree; I never said that such a choice was WRONG, only that I believed it to be a choice. In the struggle of what may be the last battle in human rights there certainly will be more frictional points than that and if the slightlest care exsists in contributing to the understanding of this; doesnt the possibly exsist that writing off such beliefs (which very well could be do to a lack of being educated in it) as ignorant or "nonsense" continue to isolate or further delude understanding of what the frustration is about. Then again I didnt hear anyone state that ignorant people are evil. Maybe they should be screened too.

eple · 10-13-2003, 02:29 PM

Well I believe you make a good point, and I see that we don't really disagree. I said that homosexuality is not a fad, you said it is not genetically determined (that would indeed seem a bit odd, as the "gay genes" couldn't possibly be an advantage in the evolutionary race). Those statements are not in conflict.

What I learn from the gay people I know (about 5 persons), is that most of them have been gay or bi all their life. This is what i base my opinions on. People often wish they were normal, but can't help their sexuality. I think it is obvious that homosexuality is not a free choise for all.

Neato · 10-13-2003, 03:47 PM

In my opinion, saying that you think being gay is a choice sounds like you think that a person one day just went "OK, I'm gonna be gay now." I'm glad you cleared up what you ment by that. But that isn't the point of this thread.

I'm still waiting to see a "good" reason for voting no... saying the child will be ridiculed at school isn't a very valid reason, and certainly isn't reason enough to ban 2 people from brining a child into their life. I'm sure race occasionally results in riducule at school... should non-majority raced people not be allowed to have children?
It is the fault of the society, not the parents, that the child may be ridiculed. The society needs to be changed rather than the gay parents be punished for "the way they are."

Quote:

Originally posted by George W Bush
Do gays truly try to adopt?

That question seems a bit unnecisary to me... of course gays truly try to adopt. Not all of them of course, but some gay couples surely do. I don't currently know any gay people, but there's no reason to assume they are any different than any couple other than their genders are the same. They are still human, they don't cease to love because they are gay, and I don't imagine that the desire to raise a child would be effected.

gummby · 10-13-2003, 07:37 PM

I may not be gay, but I am bisexual, it's something that I have been since before I knew that there was a word for it, so I am a believer that it's something that you are born with. I'm not sure that its genetic or just something that develops differently durring pregnancy, but I know I didn't chose to be this way I just choose to except it.

And as for being harrassed. No one liked my totally hetro mother, because she didn't like children and couldn't communicate well with them and she has always been overweight. So I was teased constantly because of that. I was also a chubby kid and was ostrisized for that. I had a total of one friend most of the time growing up and she wasn't even nice to me. And this is just the stuff I went through in school with a hetro set of parents. I think if everyone thinks back they will all remember a time when they or someone they know got picked on. Kids pick on kids, no matter what. I know that I grew up and now I am in a stable marrage where I am loved and I lived through it. I think that the kids being harrassed is just a lame excuse. I could open up the whole nature over nerture debate, but I think I have probably rambled enough. I just get so upset when people think there is only one way to go through life and no other options.

Sun Tzu · 10-13-2003, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Neato

I'm still waiting to see a "good" reason for voting no... saying the child will be ridiculed at school isn't a very valid reason, and certainly isn't reason enough to ban 2 people from brining a child into their life. I'm sure race occasionally results in riducule at school... should non-majority raced people not be allowed to have children?
It is the fault of the society, not the parents, that the child may be ridiculed. The society needs to be changed rather than the gay parents be punished for "the way they are."

"Do gays truly try to adopt?"
That question seems a bit unnecisary to me... of course gays truly try to adopt. Not all of them of course, but some gay couples surely do. I don't currently know any gay people, but there's no reason to assume they are any different than any couple other than their genders are the same. They are still human, they don't cease to love because they are gay, and I don't imagine that the desire to raise a child would be effected.

From the ages of 7-12 human beings learn programs that affect their behaviors that they will carry with them into adulthood. Some are auto pilot programs that are run from second nature because of being practiced every day. This in turn can lead to dysfunctional actions that hinder a person to create the things they want in life. Things like trust issues, lying, being guarded to the point of severe introversion. Due to the fact that gay couples NOT being the norm for the past few decades; the abuse mentioned are occurring in conventional families or even two divorced parent sharing custody.

The creation of these programs: fathers and mother molesting their own children or allowing it to happen, parental desertion, doing drugs in front of or with their children, severe physical or mental trauma (when I worked in an ER in San Diego, I worked triage one night with a mother bringing her 1 y/o baby boy in for what she said was stomach pain- I had to check his temp rectally as with all infants. . .his genitals were one giant blister as if someone had submersed his bottom in scalding water… that still fills me with rage thinking about it) So in essence it can be looked at in this view; social acceptance has progressed from what it was. Certainly gay parental adoptions didn’t occur on a large scale if at all until recent times. With all the nasty things that happen to children data would definitely show that abuse in one form or another is a common occurrence in conventional families. So how are they truly any better? I understand that point.

Its been stated multiple times here that being ridiculed isn’t a valid reason for consideration, (thank you for noting it as your opinion) maybe it would, maybe it would not. I think only the individual could say. In the same perfect world that’s been mentioned in this thread, the children would go through k12 with no issues at all because all they encounter are evolved beings and look past such “nonsense”. But as also mentioned it’s not that world and IMO there is little doubt that the child will receive such. Severity would vary as would reaction form person to person as we are all built differently. You sound like a strong powerful minded person and not taking anything personally is probably a great trait you carry, but “Sticks and stones” will go only so far with some. For me I’ve received words that struck my heart harder than steel ever could, though usually form someone I care highly for.

I also think not holding any weight to what they are up against is similar to this example: breaking up with an intimate partner and feeling pain. Why should anyone feel pain over that? There’s people starving, dying all over the world and we’re feeling pain over a simple break up? Such pain really isn’t important in the universal scheme of things right? IMO the pain anyone feels over anything is valid and significant. Could something similar be applied to an adult who is gay, but “still in the closet”? Why be ashamed? Why not be proud of who they are? Not to mention the fact they are adults not on the playground anymore. Are they fearful of what others are going to think? Why is that so important in adult life to some; if not more? Perhaps they are afraid of the potential mental aguish that could follow “coming out”. That seems it would be mentally and spiritually painful in and of itself to feel as though hiding is necessary. Do you see that pain as being invalid?

What is the reason/ or reasons why gay marriages and adoptions aren’t totally legal across the board in America? With civil rights being so vitally important why is this issue where it’s at still? If it boils down to ignorance then what can be done to change that? When asking about valid reasons for or against are you considering what is important is going to differ from person to person? It’s a valid question, but it sounds as though you want a clinical answer; if so why it isn’t common law in America. Where’s the validity that stops gay couples from adopting? There also appears to be allot of people that voted no, and don’t care to give their reasons fir such. This also raises the foundation of your question.

I don’t recall asking if gays truly adopt, I know Rosie O’Donnell has several adopted.

GakFace · 10-13-2003, 09:54 PM

HELL YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why the hell not? I don't understand how people can say "It'll make the children gay".. Then explain all the gay people in the world with heterosexual Parents.. how do you back that up. But that theory they should be straight.

I like Art's post as well. Life already gets fucked up to the max in straight homes, so what risk would we be taking by letting Gay couples adopt?

Someone mentioned that the children will be picked on? I don't care WHAT environment the child grows up in, they will get picked on. Hell if you grow a child up in the PERFECT environment, THAT is what they'll get picked on. I got picked on for my glasses, and for the brand that my glasses just so happened to be. If a kid trips and falls, and someone sees it, guess what? That one trip may very well follow them throughout the rest of their school years. Gay parents doesn't seem right. Think about black people that were the only ones in a white school? Surely they got picked on it, but guess what? They did it. Now when you go to school and see a black person, do you think "I'm going to make fun of him now" I doubt it. My nieghbor was one of those people that was the only black guy in an all white school. I think nothing bad about it now.. Who is to say these kids will be?

To adopt a child isnt' cheap. "A Fuck for a Buck" could get someone a child, someone who simply should NOT have children. Yet to adopt, its much more than a buck. This means that they can afford the child. This is a HUGE issue too! If a family can't support the child, the child loses out big time. So the way I see it, if a gay couple can afford to adopt, they have already proven they can support the child.

My other thought is this. If they can pass the requirements, then what exactly is the problem here? I mean they set those requirements up to adopt a child, to exclude someone because of their sexual orientation sounds just as bad to me as saying black people should be slaves again.

Once again... HELL YES!!!

almostaugust · 10-13-2003, 11:15 PM

This is a freaking joke. Of course gays should be able to bring up kids. Most of them are of sounder mind and spirit than alot of the pathetic parents out there. All the gay people i know are pretty articulate responsible people who have a good grasp of what is going on. Think about majority of predominantly white, hateful trash out there raising thier spawn to have the same degenerate values as themselves. I went through school with two different people who's parents were gay. They are both very well adjusted people. Both of them are straight and very popular too. Sure, through junior School thier was a little idiotic name calling. But they got through that fine. Just the same as anyone who has any outstanding attribute (physical, mental). In fact, it probably gave them strength of character. Of course gay people should be able to raise children.

Neato · 10-13-2003, 11:58 PM

Sun: Sorry, that last part wasn't directed at you. I've edited it accordingly.

AlmostAugust, sadly this isn't a joke. To you and me and many others it is a clear "yes" vote, but there are people who don't feel that gay people deserve the same rights as straight people (I AM NOT implying that everyone who voted no has that opinon, but none the less, it is very likely that at least a few of the no voters do.)

mb99usa · 10-14-2003, 12:30 PM

I see no problem with a gay couple adopting. I have several gay people in my family and they are wonderful parents. They did not adopt but "came out of the closet" after being married for some time. This seems rougher to me because not only do the children find out their parents are not "normal" but then they end up going through a divorce.

Why not give the children being adopted a chance to give their opinion and if the couple passes all the screening and is suitable let them adopt.

Holo · 10-14-2003, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lyaec123
Gay couples aren't natural... they can't physically produce kids, therefore something tells me they aren't meant to have them...

Neither are straight couples...If you reduce us to our original animal state the only natural sex is male/female with the female taken from behind. If you ever got a blowjob or eaten pussy or done it missionary, or anything else out of the animal position you've had unnatural sex. Add fetishes, foot fucking, bondage, etc to the list and you have no more natural ground to stand on than a gay man does.

View Poll Results: Should gay couples be legally allowed to adopt children?
Yes	58	46.40%
No	42	33.60%
Possibly; case by case	25	20.00%
Voters: 125. You may not vote on this poll

10-13-2003, 10:42 AM	#43 (permalink)
George W Bush Tilted Location: The Great Lone Star State	A tough subject demanding political correctness; voted no. I will admit all I have to go on is how I think I would react or what kind of life I think I would have had. Ive accidently walked in on my folks in the past; not that I cared to get anymore of the accidental glimpse of the site- if it would have been my dad going at it with another man. . .no comment I guess Im a little backwards, but thats due to me not knowing anyone who is gay. Do gays truly try to adopt? Im not inquiring to ridicule anyone, but is anyone that voted yes gay themselves? Im just wondering what their perspective is; if they see any potetnial problems that mya differ from someone who is straght. Would they hide their physical affection in front of the child; keeping that aspect "hidden". Kind of like the conventional goodbye kiss in the morning when spouses go their seperate directions and such. Let's say a boy doesnt turn out to be gay and he has 2 gay fathers; will they go to football games and cheer for their son? Would their son even be on a team. they are pointless scenerios that dont mention anything about love, but I can think of thousands more just like them that would give me a difficult time, but again it boils down to me not understanding. I suppose beyond everything if a person is true to their word and themselves everything else is secondary and workable. If anyone here is gay and deosnt have a problem saying so Im trying to understand when you say a person doenst choose to be gay. SO is it just like me for instance not really ever making a chioice that a females body turns me on; they just do. If I were gay males would just do it for me? Or is it a curiosity thing that one day a person decides to act upon? I dont understand. Thats not to say Im not trying to. __________________ "Rarely is the question asked: is our children learning" "You teach a child to read and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test."

10-13-2003, 12:05 PM	#46 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	I voted YES, but have nothing additional to add to the insighful YES votes that have preceeded me. __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

10-13-2003, 12:33 PM	#47 (permalink)
thejoker130 Insane Location: slippery rock university AKA: The left ass cheek of the world	Much as i would like to say "Absoluty!" i think that like adoption is now for hetero couples it should vary case by case. __________________ WHAT MORE CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR IF NOT FOR THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN? ------------------------------------- I like you. When the world is mine your death will be quick and painless.

10-13-2003, 09:54 PM	#59 (permalink)
GakFace Go Ninja, Go Ninja Go!! Location: IN, USA	HELL YES!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why the hell not? I don't understand how people can say "It'll make the children gay".. Then explain all the gay people in the world with heterosexual Parents.. how do you back that up. But that theory they should be straight. I like Art's post as well. Life already gets fucked up to the max in straight homes, so what risk would we be taking by letting Gay couples adopt? Someone mentioned that the children will be picked on? I don't care WHAT environment the child grows up in, they will get picked on. Hell if you grow a child up in the PERFECT environment, THAT is what they'll get picked on. I got picked on for my glasses, and for the brand that my glasses just so happened to be. If a kid trips and falls, and someone sees it, guess what? That one trip may very well follow them throughout the rest of their school years. Gay parents doesn't seem right. Think about black people that were the only ones in a white school? Surely they got picked on it, but guess what? They did it. Now when you go to school and see a black person, do you think "I'm going to make fun of him now" I doubt it. My nieghbor was one of those people that was the only black guy in an all white school. I think nothing bad about it now.. Who is to say these kids will be? To adopt a child isnt' cheap. "A Fuck for a Buck" could get someone a child, someone who simply should NOT have children. Yet to adopt, its much more than a buck. This means that they can afford the child. This is a HUGE issue too! If a family can't support the child, the child loses out big time. So the way I see it, if a gay couple can afford to adopt, they have already proven they can support the child. My other thought is this. If they can pass the requirements, then what exactly is the problem here? I mean they set those requirements up to adopt a child, to exclude someone because of their sexual orientation sounds just as bad to me as saying black people should be slaves again. Once again... HELL YES!!! __________________ RoboBlaster: Welcome to the club! Not that I'm in the club. And there really isn'a a club in the first place. But if there was a club and if I was in it, I would definitely welcome you to it.

10-12-2003, 10:11 PM	#41 (permalink)
mattevil Addict Location: Virginia	i think gays should definetly be allowed to have kids. like many have said a loving home is better than the orphange or foster home. i can see circumstances that could hurt the child becuuase of the parent s being gay like being teased at school.I heard a girl once say that she traumatised by her father having sex with his partner in the next room right after their parents broke up. but really both of those problems really arne't related to the father being gay as much as problems in society and bad parenting respectfully.

10-13-2003, 06:42 AM	#42 (permalink)
Lyaec123 Crazy	NO! do you have any idea how much the kid would get harassed? that's not something you can put on a kid who doesn't know has no choice in it, they will be affected by it for the rest of their lives. Gay couples aren't natural... they can't physically produce kids, therefore something tells me they aren't meant to have them...

10-13-2003, 11:56 AM	#45 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	My father is gay. He didn't come out until my brother and i were in our teenage years. I'm just fine. If anything my father's gayness only served to make me a stronger person. I developed a keen understanding of just how much fear and misunderstanding play a role in how people treat eachother. It is easy to be homophobic until you actually see that homosexuals are people too. I voted yes, because to vote any other way would be a proclamation of ignorance, an endorsement of or pandering to that ignorance.

10-13-2003, 12:37 PM	#48 (permalink)
Ashton PORNHOUND Location: California	I'm going to have to say no, I think kids have enough crap to deal with growing up in this world...... not only would they be ostersized and picked on by many of their peers, they would have to deal with the fact that even if excepted many parents wouldn't let their kids have friends with gay parents. It may be wrong, but there's no doubt these things would happen.

10-13-2003, 12:45 PM	#49 (permalink)
mattevil Addict Location: Virginia	look i see whre you guys are comin from with the whole they'll have a rough time growing up if their parents are gay but do you honestly think they'll have an easier time in a foster home or orphanage?

10-13-2003, 01:04 PM	#50 (permalink)
WhoaitsZ Crazy Location: right behind you...	They should be allowed to raise children. Anyone who can raise a child with love and the kids have food, water, shelter, and school should be able to raise a kid. If the parents are gay or straight is obviously up for question on what their kid’s sexuality may be, but considering how many simply awful shit holes kids are raised in more than justifies some odd living environment. Right now, like in our whole past, kids need love and an actual home. Our arguing over if gay love is right or wrong while kids are living or dying in bad environments is nothing short of stupid and ridiculous. And, my ‘brothers or sisters in Christ’ don’t you think taking away free will is just a tad bit fucked up? You’re wanting to rid man of the of about the only gift God gave us besides life is, in a word, lame.

10-13-2003, 01:07 PM	#51 (permalink)
WhoaitsZ Crazy Location: right behind you...	oh yeah. the whole 'we don't want the kids laughed at' bit is ludicrous. kids are made fun of. accept it. life happens. if you're fat, they make fun of you. if you're skinny, white, black, gay, straight, nice, cruel, christian, muslin whatever. if you're a fucking human people will make fun of you. use your time on protecting them against things you can actually do.

10-13-2003, 01:58 PM	#52 (permalink)
dy156 cookie Location: in the backwoods	Some of this has been said before, and I echo some of those thoughts, but here is my viewpoint. I'm for it, but with a caveat that there needs to be more checking the couple out before letting them adopt. Sorta like race can be used as a factor in college admissions, but in the reverse. Being gay should not exclude a couple that wants to adopt, but should be a negative factor. Reasons for my caveat: most gay couples don't last as long as marriages. Most have not had a marriage ceremony, and the state should view them the same as a nonmarried boyfriend/girlfriend. Reasons I think it's okay: There are alot more kids that need adopting than there are parents who want to adopt, especially kids that aren't white infants. If someone wants to love them and take care of them, I'm for it. I don't think you could be raised gay. Just like I don't think any life changing experiences could make me gay, or gay people heterosexual, I think it's something one is born with. I bet it's not easy being gay(cue Kermit), and Gay parents that really loved their kid would want what's best for them, and so I bet would try, if anything, harder than other parents to not raise gay kids.

10-13-2003, 02:29 PM	#55 (permalink)
eple Banned Location: norway	Well I believe you make a good point, and I see that we don't really disagree. I said that homosexuality is not a fad, you said it is not genetically determined (that would indeed seem a bit odd, as the "gay genes" couldn't possibly be an advantage in the evolutionary race). Those statements are not in conflict. What I learn from the gay people I know (about 5 persons), is that most of them have been gay or bi all their life. This is what i base my opinions on. People often wish they were normal, but can't help their sexuality. I think it is obvious that homosexuality is not a free choise for all.

10-13-2003, 07:37 PM	#57 (permalink)
gummby Upright Location: Idaho	I may not be gay, but I am bisexual, it's something that I have been since before I knew that there was a word for it, so I am a believer that it's something that you are born with. I'm not sure that its genetic or just something that develops differently durring pregnancy, but I know I didn't chose to be this way I just choose to except it. And as for being harrassed. No one liked my totally hetro mother, because she didn't like children and couldn't communicate well with them and she has always been overweight. So I was teased constantly because of that. I was also a chubby kid and was ostrisized for that. I had a total of one friend most of the time growing up and she wasn't even nice to me. And this is just the stuff I went through in school with a hetro set of parents. I think if everyone thinks back they will all remember a time when they or someone they know got picked on. Kids pick on kids, no matter what. I know that I grew up and now I am in a stable marrage where I am loved and I lived through it. I think that the kids being harrassed is just a lame excuse. I could open up the whole nature over nerture debate, but I think I have probably rambled enough. I just get so upset when people think there is only one way to go through life and no other options.

10-13-2003, 11:15 PM	#60 (permalink)
almostaugust Junkie Location: Oz	This is a freaking joke. Of course gays should be able to bring up kids. Most of them are of sounder mind and spirit than alot of the pathetic parents out there. All the gay people i know are pretty articulate responsible people who have a good grasp of what is going on. Think about majority of predominantly white, hateful trash out there raising thier spawn to have the same degenerate values as themselves. I went through school with two different people who's parents were gay. They are both very well adjusted people. Both of them are straight and very popular too. Sure, through junior School thier was a little idiotic name calling. But they got through that fine. Just the same as anyone who has any outstanding attribute (physical, mental). In fact, it probably gave them strength of character. Of course gay people should be able to raise children. __________________ 'And it's been a long December and there's reason to believe Maybe this year will be better than the last I can't remember all the times I tried to tell my myself To hold on to these moments as they pass'

10-13-2003, 11:58 PM	#61 (permalink)
Neato Insane Location: The Oposite, Inverse of Hell (Wisconsin)	Sun: Sorry, that last part wasn't directed at you. I've edited it accordingly. AlmostAugust, sadly this isn't a joke. To you and me and many others it is a clear "yes" vote, but there are people who don't feel that gay people deserve the same rights as straight people (I AM NOT implying that everyone who voted no has that opinon, but none the less, it is very likely that at least a few of the no voters do.)

10-14-2003, 12:30 PM	#62 (permalink)
mb99usa Keep on rolling. It only hurts for a little while. Location: wherever I am	I see no problem with a gay couple adopting. I have several gay people in my family and they are wonderful parents. They did not adopt but "came out of the closet" after being married for some time. This seems rougher to me because not only do the children find out their parents are not "normal" but then they end up going through a divorce. Why not give the children being adopted a chance to give their opinion and if the couple passes all the screening and is suitable let them adopt. __________________ So, what's your point? It's not an attitude, it's a way of life.