genuinegirly

Is marriage really all that it is cracked up to be?

Everywhere I seem to look, people are talking about the benefits of marriage. Their reasoning seems to based on sappy personal accounts rather than hard facts. Yet while people are gushing over how great marriage can be, the divorce rate in the United States is >50%. Huh? If marriage is really this wonderful, life-extending, healthy thing - then what's up with the numbers?

When it comes to women...

According to this article in Web MD, women are supposed to sleep better at night if they are happily married.
Sleep Is Sweet for Happily Married Women

Yet married women are on average 4 lbs heavier if they are married.
Married women '4lbs heavier than unmarried counterparts' - Telegraph

Then there's this scholarly article from 1997 that admits that while middle-aged and geriatric women are more healthy when married, young married women are less healthy than their single or divorced counterparts.
Marital status effects on health: are there differ... [Soc Sci Med. 1997] - PubMed result

Now about men...

A blogger for the NY Times is raving about how nagging in marriage is good for men.
The Nagging Effect: Better Health for Married Men - NYTimes.com

There was a scholarly article from 1996 that shows married men in their 20's and early 30's are less likely to be depressed.
JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Then there are these 6 benefits of marriage from Men's Health...

Here's the link: Benefits of Marriage: Men's Health

So what do you think of this - do you see it as BS or does it ring true for your life?

A few questions for discussion:
Are you married? Happily?
What is your impression of marriage?
Do you think marriage could improve your life, or the opposite?
Is marriage necessary to obtain the benefits of a long-term monogamous relationship?
Do people view you differently depending on your marital status?

----------------------------------MY THOUGHTS----------------------------------------

Are you married? Happily?
I am happily married.
What is your impression of marriage?
Marriage is less necessary in modern society. That said, I like it. I can see how it wouldn't be for everyone, but I love coming home in the evenings to cuddles and a reason to cook good meals.
Do you think marriage could improve your life, or the opposite?
It has improved my life. But it has been a horrible curse for some of my friends, riddled with emotional abuse and scarring experiences.
Is marriage necessary to obtain the benefits of a long-term monogamous relationship?
Absolutely not... yet yes. All emotional and physical needs possibly fulfilled by a spouse could easily be met with a long-term partner. Socially, it's not viewed in the same light. Our relationship became more stable when we were married rather than living together, simply because those who interacted with us viewed us as a married couple.
Do people view you differently depending on your marital status?
Yes. I first noticed the difference with family. Tt and I had been together for years before we decided to get married, but my mother continually tried to set me up with "good young men" until Tt proposed. Tt's mother hated me with a passion until we were properly married, then somehow magically when we tied the knot she was ok with me. Then there is the professional sphere: married graduate students aren't invited to the same sort of parties as singles. Accommodations for travel are more easily made for my husband when he wants to accompany me for a conference, and it is assumed that he will attend general events. With his work, things are run a bit more conservatively and invitations to parties are often limited to immediate family, therefore I would not have been permitted to attend the company party if we weren't married.

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"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

noodle

Not married... happily not married.
I think marriage is wonderful for a lot of people and something of a rite of passage or something required of them for others. A lot of our friends have gotten married because their family or friend or one of the partners thought that they should. Most are not that happy.
I'm not sure that marriage would really benefit us at this point. And I know that S does not want my loans linked to him. I really don't see it as beneficial or not... it's fairly evenly weighted at this point in our lives.
I don't think that marriage is necessary to get the emotional, health, etc. benefits of the long-term monogamous relationship, except in some economic areas. For example, Florida voters freaked out about the possibility of same-sex marriage and voted down the proposition that also included legal rights for domestic partnerships and common-law marriages. So, in this respect, S and I can never be on each other's health insurance unless it is a special provision (mine refuses this) and if we didn't have wills and health care surrogate information, there's no security, everything would revert to our next of kin (parents in our case), so there was some incredible emotional turmoil and stress that affected a lot of quality of life last year with S's health crisis and surgery. But in regards to most of the other issues, no, I don't think it's required.
People most definitely look at us differently. We are Heterosexual Life Partners, when we're humorous. We've referred to each other as spouses when it served us (e.g. with the salesman in buy cars, "this is my wife, Noodle," not on paper) or as fiance/finacee, and boy/girl friend at other times. A lot of times I'll laughingly say "my... well, what do you call them after 7 years? My man, S___" to avoid the conversation altogether.

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KirStang

Although I love Menshealth, upon closer analysis, I think many of their articles tend towards gross overgeneralizations.

Yes, I think marriage = better life.

Financial cushion, about $40,000 higher in earnings than unmarried counterparts, longer life span, shared experiences, etc. I also think having a spouse forces people to get off their asses and provide, rather than become a reclusive bum (as I sometimes am when I'm single).

Not married yet, but I do believe in the benefits of the institution. I'll add more later, as I should be doing Property Law problems instead of talking marriage. (I love family law).

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mixedmedia

Are you married? Happily?

Not currently, but I have been married twice. While, of course, there were happy times in both marriages, overall neither of them were "happy." One of them was dysfunctional.

What is your impression of marriage?

I think marriage is a great thing if it works. I'm certainly not anti-marriage, but I think many people go into marriage with unrealistic expectations. Confusing and compounding that situation, is the fact that once we are in an "unhappy" marriage (not to be confused with an unhealthy, dysfunctional marriage), we have unrealistic expectations of what it would be like to unmarried.

Do you think marriage could improve your life, or the opposite?

Both.

Is marriage necessary to obtain the benefits of a long-term monogamous relationship?

No, I don't think so. In fact, when I think of marriage I think of it solely in terms of the relationship. Not the legal status, which is irrelevant to me.

Do people view you differently depending on your marital status?

Probably, but not in a way that makes any difference to me.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

KirStang

More weight in the wife may equal complacency, not so much unhealth.

IIRC (could be wrong again!) by law, spouses have an obligation to financially provide for their spouse (hence shared credit ratings, Alimony, etc).

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StanT

Are you married? Happily?
Married and generally happy. We have our ups and downs.

What is your impression of marriage?
We wouldn't have bothered except for the insurance, work benefits, etc. We didn't particularly care for the piece of paper.

Do you think marriage could improve your life, or the opposite?
My relationship with my wife has improved my life. Marriage was irrelevant, I think.

Is marriage necessary to obtain the benefits of a long-term monogamous relationship?
In terms of the relationship, no. In terms of insurance, co-ownership, etc. yes

Do people view you differently depending on your marital status?
Been married forever, it's hard to be objective.


We got married 30+ years ago when my wife became pregnant and her insurance would not have covered pregnancy in an unmarried woman. We were perfectly fine living together; but a difficult pregnancy and eventual $20k bill made getting married much more attractive. Our relationship is independent of that piece of paper.

uncle phil

my second (current) marriage was the best thing that ever happened to my life...

there was no category for this above...

__________________
"We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done."
- Robert S. McNamara
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"We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
- Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"
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never wrestle with a pig.
you both get dirty;
the pig likes it.

genuinegirly

Wow, so many people have already participated in this thread, whether through the poll or by comment. I appreciate how all of you have jumped in and offered your perspectives.

Noodle, I was hoping you would respond - for all that you and your guy have been through, I tend to think of you as a prime example of how a non-married-but-happy long-term relationship could work (Kramus and his lady are another great example).

Mixed Media - I was hoping you would respond since you've been through the wringer with marriage, I honestly thought that someone in your place would have given up on the concept all together. I like your comments about unrealistic expectations - both with entering a marriage and getting out of one, you have given me something to think about.

KirStang, I'd love to hear your thoughts on family law in regards to marriage. It's fun having the perspective of an unmarried person with an interest in such legalities.

Uncle Phil - Thanks for reminding me about second (and third and fourth, etc), and showing me that they actually can work. It seems like a common misconception (in the religious circles I tend to roam) that someone who chooses divorce would be incapable of making marriage work ever, that somehow they aren't wired for the level of commitment that a happy marriage requires. It makes me angry when I hear comments like this - there are a number of reasons for a first marriage to fail, many of which would not be indicators for future failure.

StanT, you and your sweetheart have undoubtedly been through a lot together in the past 30 years.


Here's a question that came to my mind, to be answered by Stan T, Uncle Phil, or anyone who has been married for an extended length of time... Have you found that in general she offers welcome support and companionship? Has there been a time when either of you have considered throwing in the towel, was there ever a clear time when you made a choice to stay together? Church-y marriage prep courses seem to stress the "choice" of remaining married, even so far as stating that you have to make that choice each and every day. Is that something you've encountered? The concept to me is insane - as though the person would be deciding to stay with something just because they made a commitment X years ago, and not because they are truly happy together. Sorry to ask such personal things, you don't need to respond... I'd just like less religiously-skewed picture of what it means to have a long and prosperous marriage.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

Baraka_Guru

Are you married? Happily?

I'm divorced but currently happily in a long-term relationship (technically common-law).

The divorce came after a few months of marriage that marked the end of a long-term abusive relationship. The marriage indicated just how powerless I was while in the relationship and it proved only to make matters more difficult when the relationship ended. It caused me a lot of stress at the time because of my mental state, and at the time I was attending university full time and working part time, while living away from my family in a big city.

What is your impression of marriage?

I view it as unnecessary personally. I was raised in a non-religious household. However, my siblings are generally traditional in terms of views and approaches to marriage. I'm not sure of their religious views for most of them though. I can see how marriage fulfills a religious need.

Do you think marriage could improve your life, or the opposite?

I doubt that marriage itself is what improves or degrades life quality. It's mostly the relationship, I think. I suppose there are advantages to the official trappings that marriage brings, in terms of stability and social acceptance. However, this can also be a disadvantage if the relationship is an abusive or loveless one.

Is marriage necessary to obtain the benefits of a long-term monogamous relationship?

In a word, no. I think there is far more to relationships than what marriages are. I suppose I view marriage as a confirmation of what a relationship should ideally be. However, I don't think a marriage is required to partake in this confirmation.

Do people view you differently depending on your marital status?

Some do. For a long time, we would get a perennial question: "When are you guys getting married?" We're technically engaged, I guess, and have been for years. But the relationship is more geared around trust, dedication, friendship, and exclusivity than it is around the need to make it official by marriage. I can think of at least two or three people who probably believe we are sinners based on our living/relationship situation.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

KirStang

My impression of Marriage:

In 1960, the amount of couples who cohabitated numbered around 500,000. In 2000, that number jumped 1000% (or 10 times) to about 5 million cohabitating couples. The number is even higher now in 2010.

These days, marriage is seen more as a province for the elite--the majority of those married are college educated couples who earn a solid middle class income (I don't have the figures offhand. I just remember reading a reputable article about this.) However, marriages by college educated couples report drastically lower rates of divorce, and seem to be the 'happier' type of marriages we envision. IIRC, divorce between college aged couples is around 21%, but closer to 50% for high school educated couples.

OTOH: Marriage is seen as a big step, hence the big jump in cohabitation by younger couples. Whereas in the past, cohabitation without marriage may have carried stigma, these days, cohabitation is more of the norm as couples wait before getting married.
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I don't think marriage is necessary to obtain the benefits of a long-term monogamous relationship. However, many, many legal benefits are tied to marriage, including rights of survivorship at death, election in to the estate at death, military housing, joint income tax returns, tenancy by the entireties (protects the home against creditors) etc.

The relationship itself is what generates the 'good vibes' I think. However, the law still draws a formalistic distinction between unmarried and married couples. IIRC, states have steadfastly refused to recognize marital benefits (i.e. division of property at separation) between couples who have not formalized their relationship.

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Do people view you differently?

Yes. My parents friends always ask me if I have a girlfriend. I know my friends' parents worry about my friends' getting married. As one magazine succintly put it, marriage is like a merit badge. It shows you're not a super rapist weirdo.

JM2CW.

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StanT

Have you found that in general she offers welcome support and companionship?
In general, sure. In terms of companionship, we hike together, ski together, have his and hers motorcycles and dogs. She's generally supportive, when I give her a chance. However, nobody can make me go from zero to pissed faster than she can.

Has there been a time when either of you have considered throwing in the towel, was there ever a clear time when you made a choice to stay together.
Yep. She moved out 12 years ago for a 6 month period while we worked some things out. As much as we annoy or piss each other off on occasion, we seem better together than apart.

Willravel

I am single and think marriage will be good for my physical and/or mental health.

Are you married? Happily?
I'm not currently married, nor do I have any immediate plans to marry.

What is your impression of marriage?
I've seriously dated women before, in fact I was once engaged, and I found it superior to being single, though not necessary for my happiness.

Do you think marriage could improve your life, or the opposite?
I think a happy, healthy marriage absolutely could improve my life. My personality is built to couple. I love women, I love being in relationships, and I'm not afraid of commitment and honesty in a relationship. I'm also really picky, though.

Is marriage necessary to obtain the benefits of a long-term monogamous relationship?
Not at all. If I ever marry, it will be for the legal benefits. Long-term coupling doesn't require a certificate from the state. I suppose when I said marriage would improve my life, I more meant long-term coupling. Marriage is really just a legal thing as far as I'm concerned. My commitment doesn't require a showy vow, it's communicated through my continued love, trust, and hard work to maintain a healthy relationship.

Do people view you differently depending on your marital status?
Some do, particularly Boomers that don't really get that a lot of people of my generation have no interest in a rather arcane practice.

Martian

Having a lasting, stable relationship is great.

Going through all the fuss and bother of actually getting married seems rather silly and pointless to me.

We already file our taxes jointly. She's able to use my medical benefits. She's the named beneficiary on my life insurance. What do we have to gain here?

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

ASU2003

That is my view on it too. I wouldn't want a long term relationship to change once we were married.

Society seems to 'reward' married people over dating and single people though. And life is easier if you have two people working together on daily chores and such.

As a lifetime long single person, a relationship would be great. But I only have the 'fantasy' point of view of what relationships should be. Walks on the beach, dinners out, dancing, travel partners, sex, cuddling, massages, not needing to date anymore, picnics in the park, etc...

But, being single still beats having a bad relationship (which I really don't understand how or why they get to that point).

AbelG

i am in a relationship and i am looking forward for marriage. I assume that it is healthy for me since i wanted to share my life with someone whom i can be till the rest of my life.

mixedmedia

Oh no. In fact, not that I'm seeing anyone or anything like that, but I am quite sure that I will have at least one more (hopefully just one more) significant relationship in my life. Like willravel, I am tuned for relationships, I think. I just keep making choices that...well, I don't really make choices, lol, I follow my heart around like a shadow. sheesh. That's sad.

But I haven't given up on the prospect of love. Actual legal marriage? I can take it or leave it.

My mother met my stepfather when she was 50 and he is literally the best man I've ever met. Actually, no, the best person I have ever met. So I am not giving up hope.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

snowy

Are you married? Happily?

Yes. Very happy! We're coming up on 1 year of marriage in just over a month, and it's been a fantastic year.

What is your impression of marriage?

It's about give and take. He relies on me and I rely on him. When I cannot take care of myself, he takes care of me. I don't know what I would do without him sometimes. I had norovirus this year, and it was awful. Without him there to make sure I got everything I needed, I wouldn't have gotten well as quickly. A coworker got sick about the same time I did, and had no one to take care of her. It took her two extra days to get well.

Do you think marriage could improve your life, or the opposite?

It has improved my life, absolutely.

Is marriage necessary to obtain the benefits of a long-term monogamous relationship?

We lived together for almost 5 years before we got married. Really, I think if you are in a truly committed relationship, I don't think it's necessary to get the benefits out of it. However, I will say that getting married has saved us a lot of money this year. Our tax return wouldn't have been as good!

Do people view you differently depending on your marital status?

Yes. For some reason, people think I no longer want to babysit, and suddenly, the family pressure to have my own baby is HUGE. Plus, I think it's a mark of adulthood. I've signed a serious, binding contract. It's about as big as buying a house, but not as expensive.

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Plan9

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

SuburbanZombie

Are you married? Happily?
Not married but co-habitating for the past 14 years. (No common law here.)
Not happily. Dysfunctional would probably be an apt description.

What is your impression of marriage?
I could take it or leave it. Piece of paper doesn't mean much to me. I am an atheist so the religious part of it is not in the equation.

Do you think marriage could improve your life, or the opposite?
I suppose it could go either way.

Is marriage necessary to obtain the benefits of a long-term monogamous relationship?
Government/legal benefits, yes. The other stuff, no.

Do people view you differently depending on your marital status?
Wouldn't know.
All the people I know now have never known me single. All the people that knew me when I was single are no longer in the picture.

Baraka_Guru

But marriages don't even build any equity.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

KirStang

Says you, BG.

Most states define marital property as any income earned during the marriage, including appreciation in value of any property. In addition, most states include retirement funds as marital property....

So:

1.) Marry a rich person.
2.) Stay with her for jurisdictionally required time
3.) ????
4.) SUGARMOM'D!

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Baraka_Guru

That's not equity; that's a severance package. It's different.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

snowy

Yes, 9er, I did consider the expense of divorce when I made my reply, but Baraka summed up my thoughts well.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

KirStang

Touche, sir. Well played.

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