02-16-2008, 09:16 PM | #82 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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02-16-2008, 09:25 PM | #83 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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Does this make my stance more clear? I hope? |
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02-17-2008, 02:57 AM | #85 (permalink) |
has a plan
Location: middle of Whywouldanyonebethere
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OK I am not against guns. I eat red meat. I like spinach. I don't wear a gas mask. I don't wear gloves (but I wash my hands enough).
I AM NOT AGAINST GUNS! Is it because our generation is a bunch of underachievers, overstimulated by video games and mass media, end up working at the last minute, buys coffee at Star Bucks for $3.00 a jolt when they could have made it for $0.30 at home? (I'm done stealing a friend's interpretation of what the fuck in wrong with this generation.) I want to know why our generation is going down the tubes.
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02-17-2008, 03:47 AM | #86 (permalink) | |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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You know, just because an event involves a gun, it doesn't make it a gun control issue. One way or the other. Neither stricter nor more lax gun control laws would have necessarily prevented this disaster waiting to happen.
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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
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02-17-2008, 04:00 AM | #87 (permalink) | |
Location: Iceland
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And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran |
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02-17-2008, 04:12 AM | #88 (permalink) | |
has a plan
Location: middle of Whywouldanyonebethere
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02-17-2008, 04:19 AM | #89 (permalink) |
Getting it.
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
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Nice to see that the thread that I thought was progressing in an interesting direction for a change turned in the same old same old.
Nice to see that we still know how to beat a dead horse. /end sarcasm
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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke |
02-17-2008, 04:50 AM | #90 (permalink) | |
Living in a Warmer Insanity
Super Moderator
Location: Yucatan, Mexico
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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club |
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02-17-2008, 05:03 AM | #92 (permalink) |
Getting it.
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
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Augi no worries... you made a great effort.
Sometimes the crazies have weapons other than guns.
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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke |
02-17-2008, 05:31 AM | #94 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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the medication part is something that should be discussed. how does society MAKE/FORCE a person to not discontinue their meds?
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
02-17-2008, 05:44 AM | #95 (permalink) |
has a plan
Location: middle of Whywouldanyonebethere
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It doesn't require that people go off their medication.
Is there any more information on the Louisiana Tech shootings? But medication control would be a new horse to whip.
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Last edited by Hain; 02-17-2008 at 05:50 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
02-17-2008, 07:05 AM | #96 (permalink) | |
I Confess a Shiver
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Think of it as some kind of macabre good luck charm, a carry-over from my time in the army where I carried an automatic rifle with a grenade launcher for an entire year at a time without every once having the opportunity to squeeze either trigger. Voodoo. Karma. Magic. A bizarre protective talisman. Just having it kept me alive. I seldom carry a pistol due to my current lifestyle (school), not all that often in comparison to most people with this type of license... but when I do carry it? I never need the damn thing and I never worry about needing it... because it's there. Not once has the thing left the holster in an emergency. Not even close. I figure it never will. I take comfort in that fact, not the fact that I have a firearm. ... I have a concealed weapons permit because I feel that if I carry this two pound piece of metal around with me sometimes... I'll never need to use it. ... Statistics, silly little numbers they are, dictate that I will never need to use my concealed weapon. Not even close to once in my entire life. Infinitesimal chance. However, on the impossible chance that I'm, oh, shoe-shopping at the outlet mall or catching a late movie at the cineplex with the girlfriend and some nutjob with a shotgun and Glock (TM, the Preferred Weapon of School Shooters) wants to get all homicidal and emo on the crowd? After I'm done belly-flopping on the ground like a soldier yelling "Incoming!" and have carefully inventoried all my fingers and toes, he's in for a real surprise: victims that shoot back. There would be zerp joy in doing such, either. It would suck. ... I'm not some paranoid schizo who talks to his piece and plays quickdraw in the mirror. I've never hurt anybody. I certainly don't plan it on, either. My life is worth carrying a silly piece of steel around. I don't have a badge-of-the-man but I will in the future. Does that make it easier to understand? ... I'm a sane, responsible, hard-working pseudo-civilian. Why are you afraid of me being armed in a country where the bad guys are often armed? Last edited by Plan9; 02-17-2008 at 07:31 AM.. |
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02-17-2008, 08:44 AM | #97 (permalink) | ||
Location: Iceland
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I also appreciated your level-headed explanation of why you carry it. I can see how our backgrounds differ, and I know your military experience must have a strong influence on your reasons for carrying a gun. But I must say, having walked around in downtown Beirut in recent years, with tanks and guns pointing at me on several street corners--soldiers at the ready to fire at any of us, anytime--(god knows how they could possible stop a car bomber that way, since there is never any warning of that kind of thing), it still never occurred to me that I should also be walking around armed. It has never occurred to me to walk around armed, even in extremely dangerous places. I have held a gun to shoot BB's at pop cans when I was maybe 8 or 10 years old. I knew where the gun in our house was, growing up, and I hated knowing it was there. We lived in a remote place, far from any law enforcement's ability to get to us quickly, but still it never occurred to me to ever have to use a gun. The only people I ever knew who carried guns were usually paranoid relatives who were basically stockpiling their own weapons cache (wanna-be paramilitaries) who freaked me out in general. My 10 year old cousin walked around with rounds of ammo across his chest. I stayed very clear of him. Not that any of this contradicts your reasons for carrying, but I just wanted to confirm our different backgrounds. I also wanted to clarify what you said here: Quote:
I should also put in a little perspective that my husband has gone so far as to refuse to ever work for any company that is related to weapons manufacturing, no matter how good the money is. He grew up in a civil war, where everyone was in a militia, everyone was armed, people were shooting not just guns but mortar fire and launching bombs around his city on a daily basis. He wants nothing to do with those things, and I'm alright with that. It comes down to sharing values, I guess. I think deciding whether or not it's okay to pack a weapon is along the same lines as whether or not people want to have children, or have an open relationship, or what have you... those kinds of values have to be in agreement. I never thought about gun ownership in those terms before, but since you mentioned it, Crompsin, I've had to think about it. Thanks for that.
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And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran |
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02-17-2008, 10:07 AM | #98 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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02-17-2008, 10:17 AM | #99 (permalink) | ||
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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BTW, your biggest threats come from poor diet and exercise. Eat healthy and exercise at least 30 minutes a day and you'll have just warded off the top 10 or so causes of death in the US. Quote:
I'm a business leader today and if I've got anything to say about it, I'll be a community or possibly even governmental leader in the future. |
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02-17-2008, 10:37 AM | #100 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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02-17-2008, 10:49 AM | #101 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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Yes, I'm marginalizing people who are selective about protection. Why? Because you've not been called on your bullshit. You, dksuddeth, are probably never going to be home invaded, but you've still spent god knows how much on a small arsenal of guns that you excuse by saying they're for home defense. They're not. Whether you're aware of it or not, that's just an excuse. The real reason you have those guns is inexcusable, so you try to cover up for that by screaming "self defense" and hope that people buy the fallacy that is something is done in self defense, it's always right. |
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02-17-2008, 11:01 AM | #103 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Indiana
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It's time for the president to hand over his nobel peace prize. |
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02-17-2008, 11:04 AM | #104 (permalink) | |
I Confess a Shiver
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02-17-2008, 11:08 AM | #106 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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What I don't get is the "if he breaks down my door, I'm going to kill him" mentality about criminals being paired up with the "everyone should be armed" mentality. That's dangerous. And I don't mean dangerous like running with scissors. I mean dangerous like playing with a match inside a gas tank. |
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02-17-2008, 11:21 AM | #107 (permalink) | |
I Confess a Shiver
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I think the difference between the hobby person and the psycho person is the fun factor. I have fun with them and put them away. I don't sleep with them at night and refer to them as "Ole Right-Maker." Last edited by Plan9; 02-17-2008 at 11:26 AM.. |
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02-17-2008, 12:40 PM | #108 (permalink) | |
Location: Iceland
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When I think about guns and ammo, etc... the dominant feeling isn't fear, it's that of being in a totally unrecognizable country. I have no connection whatsoever with the mindset of wanting to be armed... it's just not there, even when reason states that it should be, maybe (e.g. walking around Beirut, or hell, even when I was doing fieldwork in the Philly ghetto). I just never had that curiosity, which is strange for me. I'm the type who gets curious about damn near everything, even if it's dangerous and a very bad idea. So part of that may be fear, but I think a lot of it is also personality and maybe the way I was raised. Gut values, as I said before.
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And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran |
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02-17-2008, 03:31 PM | #109 (permalink) | |||
has a plan
Location: middle of Whywouldanyonebethere
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As I'll never regain control of this thread.
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02-17-2008, 05:26 PM | #110 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: San Francisco
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Exactly. Guns are not the issue. Whether there are more guns or less guns is not going to stop anyone from committing mass murder if they really want to do it. We can't create a society with no guns, as they say, the cat's out of the bag, someone's going to have them and I'd much rather everyone have them than only the government. It's much better to have an armed citizenry in which there are rare illegal shootings than a government with guns and a citizenry with none. Governments are much more dangerous with power.
No laws can prevent this type of incident. Mass murder is already illegal and the murderers typically intend to die anyway, so anything that happens after they start shooting is irrelevant. Arming everyone in class is terribly impractical, but I agree that if someone meets state standards for concealed carry it should be legal to carry in schools, or at least any public institutions. Why anyone would be qualified to carry a gun in certain public places and not in others was always a mystery to me. |
02-17-2008, 06:45 PM | #111 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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While single I never even thought about having a gun beyond a 'meh maybe, whatever' but now that I have kids and a wife, my protection instincts are heightened, especially with the kids. Hurt me, ok, hurt my kids, I'll rip off your arms and beat you with them if needed, but shooting works better. Most boys are drawn to guns as well. We played solider almost daily as a kid, and my son already turns pretty much every stick like object into a gun and thats just from seeing a few video games. Much like its your nature to abhor weapons, I am drawn to them, not in a 'unhealthy' way, I currently don't own a weapon more dangerous than a K-Bar, but there is something about them that carrying them seems natural.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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02-17-2008, 07:04 PM | #112 (permalink) | ||||
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." Last edited by dksuddeth; 02-17-2008 at 07:06 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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02-17-2008, 07:41 PM | #114 (permalink) | ||||
I Confess a Shiver
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Turns out the weapons change... human nature doesn't. NOTE: Angry chimp is violating rule #2 of gun safety. While there is a grain of truth to it, if you were any more sexist in that last post... I'd have to slide into a ratty NASCAR shirt and put on one of those tacky beer can hats. ... Quote:
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02-17-2008, 07:51 PM | #115 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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You might be trying to get a date here though so I understand your position.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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02-17-2008, 08:02 PM | #116 (permalink) | |
I Confess a Shiver
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While physical size and strength is the biggest factor, social attitudes of equality and training can overcome biology when there is a willing mind. I know quite a few female LTs that can bench press more than I weigh. ... When ya've got a smooth spot like a Ken Doll... dates are a just big waste of time and money, brother. /threadjack |
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02-17-2008, 08:10 PM | #117 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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Its the psychological differences that make the difference. Its not so much social attitudes its how our brains are wired, and our society is based on that, not the other way around.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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02-17-2008, 08:19 PM | #118 (permalink) |
Mine is an evil laugh
Location: Sydney, Australia
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I think the bottom line to this kind of thing is that there are psychos out there. This is not a USA only thing - mass shootings occur everywhere, it just seems to the USA has a system where guns are more accessible (Australia's gun laws changed dramatically after the Port Arthur massacre - see link for details of the shooting - that even if I wanted a gun I have absolutely no clue how to go about getting one).
Also, American shootings on this scale make the news because most of the news outlets have a pretty US centric view - bombs going off in other countries probably don't the coverage in the US that a school shooting gets. RE access to guns - personally I think it should be really hard to get one, even if the law says you can have one. Laws should be written in such a way that there should be a sizeable background check before you can buy one. If you are deemed to be mentally unstable, you should not be able to buy a gun - end of story. I don't buy into the more guns = more gun crime argument either. I think this is a red herring. The kinds of people that do this kind of thing are psycho and everything should be done to identify the causes of this, not be so hung up on "where did the gun come from?"
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who hid my keyboard's PANIC button? |
02-17-2008, 09:17 PM | #120 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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