02-16-2008, 10:36 AM | #41 (permalink) | ||
Pissing in the cornflakes
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. Last edited by Ustwo; 02-16-2008 at 10:38 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
||
02-16-2008, 10:44 AM | #42 (permalink) | ||
warrior bodhisattva
Super Moderator
Location: East-central Canada
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot |
||
02-16-2008, 10:46 AM | #43 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
|
Quote:
That means you have a 1 in 630,000 chance. Statistically you're more likely to be hit by lighting. Last edited by Willravel; 02-16-2008 at 10:52 AM.. |
|
02-16-2008, 10:49 AM | #44 (permalink) | |
I Confess a Shiver
|
Quote:
|
|
02-16-2008, 10:55 AM | #45 (permalink) |
Young Crumudgeon
Location: Canada
|
I'm going to try to phrase this in the least confrontational way possible. Let's see if it works.
I strikes me as an observer that Americans seem to be some of the most fearful and paranoid people in the developed world (so much for non-confrontational). I don't have a weapon that I carry in public in case of attack. I do not have a home defence strategy (I suppose, if it came to it, I could swing my bass guitar at an intruder; that sucker's heavy). When I lay me down to sleep at night, the last thing on my mind is what I intend to do in the event of a home invasion. Baraka_Guru, a fellow Canadian, believes that anyone who feels the need to possess more than one firearm is being unreasonably paranoid. And we're not alone up here; the only Canadian owned firearms I have ever encountered in my 24 years riding this rock around the sun were exclusively for use in hunting. We're talking bolt-action long guns totally unsuited to any other application. You want to defend your home with one of these bad boys, you damn well better get them on the first shot. I can count on one hand the number of murders I've encountered that were closer to me than a newspaper page. Three of the four just happened to occur in the same town as me, in towns where such events were rare enough to be remarkable. The fourth was a friend of a friend. Firearms were not involved in any of the four. I'm not passing judgment on the right to keep and bear arms. That's a decision that you all as a nation have made, and it's your right to run your country in the manner of your choosing. If you support it, more power to you. But I can't help but wonder. The United States of America is a nation founded in violence. The founders felt the need to protect the nation and it's people because they were dealing with personal experience; they'd just come out of a bloody rebellion with what they deemed an oppressive government and they were understandably paranoid that the same thing might one day happen again. The effectiveness of small arms against fighter/bombers and main battle tanks notwithstanding, what is the real probability that the general population of the United States of America will need to rebel against it's government in the near (or even distant) future? Again, not passing judgment. The answer to that question is entirely a matter of opinion. There has not been, to my knowledge, a single Canadian Prime Minister ever assassinated by use of a rifle or any other means. The worst our nation's leaders have to worry about are pies and pushy reporters. So far as I'm aware, England can make a similar claim, although I'm not familiar enough with English history to assert that with any real confidence. And while random shootings do occur throughout the rest of the world, they do seem to be much more prevalent in the United States of America. Initially I thought it might be population, but other equally of more populated nations don't seem to suffer the same problems. None of this provides a solution, or even a clear argument really. I just sit and I wonder. How much of the fear comes from the very right that's meant to keep you safe? If everyone has the inalienable right to keep and bear arms, how much more do you feel you have to defend yourself against all the other people who potentially exercise that right? And how much does having a culture in which firearms play such a prominent role encourage these sorts of tragic events? Unfortunately, I don't have any answers. The only thing I'm really good at is asking more questions.
__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame |
02-16-2008, 11:05 AM | #47 (permalink) | ||
I Confess a Shiver
|
Quote:
Ssssh, you're just like the rest of us. Quote:
... A scoped bolt action rifle is many times more dangerous than a handgun. Last edited by Plan9; 02-16-2008 at 11:08 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
||
02-16-2008, 12:06 PM | #48 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
|
Quote:
To those that look at the statistics and odds of anything violent ever happening to them as being so miniscule so as to not bother being prepared for it to happen, so accepting that if it ever should, just lay down and die, I have to ask you....how much do you value your life? Quote:
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." Last edited by dksuddeth; 02-16-2008 at 12:10 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
||
02-16-2008, 02:28 PM | #50 (permalink) | ||
warrior bodhisattva
Super Moderator
Location: East-central Canada
|
Quote:
Quote:
In answer, I don't see it worth going through the trouble and expense of having a firearm in my home, knowing how to use it safely, and knowing how to take care of it. If someone wants to bust in and take my shit, then fine. I don't want to kill anyone over that. If they want to do worse, well, I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. Adrenaline can do crazy things when used properly. I think Martian helps keep perspective. You need to know where we Canadians are coming from. Maybe since we're so socialist we don't have as many social ills and dangers such as violence and crime. Maybe it's because of our social makeup in general. I don't know. I've said this before: If I told my family and friends I was getting a firearm for home safety purposes, they'd think I was nuts. I'd barely be able to get them to support my getting a rifle for hunting. * * * * * Martian, thanks for your insights.
__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot |
||
02-16-2008, 02:55 PM | #51 (permalink) | ||
Young Crumudgeon
Location: Canada
|
Quote:
Any gun is dangerous. A little .22 handgun can kill a man just as sure as a big badass Barrett rifle firing .50 BMG can. All the same, some are better suited for different applications. I don't use a claw hammer to knock dents out of sheet metal, and I don't use a ball-peen to nail two by fours together. Quote:
I don't let the fear of lightning stop me from going outside, even when it's raining. The fear of being struck by a runaway driver doesn't stop me from crossing the street. I face death on an everyday basis, as do we all. Preparing for one scenario simply because it's 'scarier' and with no regard to the actual probability of that scenario coming to pass doesn't make sense to me. And feeling the need to purchase and keep multiple firearms to safeguard against that unlikely scenario is so alien to me that I don't even know what to make of it. This is my opinion as a Canadian and I suspect it's an opinion shared by a great many of my countrymen. I will not attack your belief in your right to keep and bear arms. That's for you guys as a nation to decide and I don't pretend to know what's best for 300 million people better than they do. I just thought it might be insightful for some of you if I shared my observations as an outsider. And that's really all there is here.
__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame |
||
02-16-2008, 03:13 PM | #52 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
|
Quote:
Having been shot (how many times have you been shot, dk?), I know it's not really something to live in constant fear of. So long as it doesn't hit a major artery or a major organ, you'll probably be fine. Quite frankly, it's a lot like being hit in the face the first time. You're scared of it before it happens because you don't know what to expect. When it does happen it hurts... but you survive and suddenly it's not this big monster in your closet. It went through my calf and I drove myself to the hospital. They stitched it up, I limped for a few days and now there's barely even a scar. So does that mean that I went out and spend thousands of dollars on tons of guns to defend myself? Shit no. I'm fine. When you combine the FACT that you're likely to never be home invaded with the FACT that things like security doors and dead bolts can prevent someone from getting in your house, you finally come the to understanding that the menace is a phantom. It's not any more real than the boogeyman or WMDs in Iraq. |
|
02-16-2008, 03:18 PM | #53 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
|
Carrrying a gun as a self defense tool does not equal living in fear. If it were that way, what does that say about every policeman out there?
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
02-16-2008, 03:26 PM | #54 (permalink) | ||||||||
Pissing in the cornflakes
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'd also add that were Canada to become a superpower you would see a change in how things work rather quickly. It was less than two lifetimes ago that the president could walk in the open shaking hands.
__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
||||||||
02-16-2008, 03:33 PM | #55 (permalink) | |
Young Crumudgeon
Location: Canada
|
Quote:
Anyone who has ever watched COPS should know that the police enter into high-risk and potentially dangerous situations on a daily basis. Their job is to confront felons. Felons can be far more dangerous than the general population. That the officers of the law have a firearm strapped to their hip acts as a deterrent and also provides them with the means to apply necessary force in the unlikely and unhappy circumstance when it is called for. I, on the other hand, do not confront felons as part of my job. I do not intentionally put myself in potentially life-threatening situations to uphold the values of the society of which I am a part. I have no need for a weapon. Cops carry guns because the likelihood of them needing to have and use a gun is relatively high when compared with the rest of us. Frankly, I'd be happier if they didn't have to, but one could argue that if they didn't their role would be redundant anyway.
__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame |
|
02-16-2008, 03:39 PM | #56 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
|
Quote:
|
|
02-16-2008, 03:54 PM | #57 (permalink) |
has a plan
Location: middle of Whywouldanyonebethere
|
And I totally didn't see there was a second page all ready, good going me.
To steal from one of the most poorly thought out movies: "Guns don't kill people, but they sure help." Like Crompsin said, it would escalate from pillows, to nerf bats, to napalm, to the latest fashion craze: strapping homemade bombs to your chest. I hear it's all the rage in the Middle East. Tomorrow it will be a bigger bomb. Tomorrow it can kill more people. Tomorrow it will be just the last day of lectures. "School's out for-ever!" Pay close attention today, because I am only going to do this once. Class dismissed.
__________________
Last edited by Hain; 02-16-2008 at 03:58 PM.. |
02-16-2008, 03:55 PM | #58 (permalink) | |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
|
Quote:
Uh, no, dude. Obviously this problem has nothing, nothing, nothing to do with gun control and everything to do with the impact of stressors in our society. Crazy doesn't do gun control, dude. Crazy obviously doesn't care if it dies. Crazy usually takes itself out in case you haven't noticed. Fear of sane people with guns is for the sane.
__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
|
02-16-2008, 04:01 PM | #59 (permalink) | |||||
Young Crumudgeon
Location: Canada
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I think one could argue that while you may not feel the need to possess a firearm yourself, you seem more than happy to use the fear generated by them to your advantage. My argument isn't really rooted in violent crime statistics. Actually, to be totally honest I don't really have an argument. These posts are the forum equivalent of thinking out loud, just some musings on the subject. Regardless, I do still wonder if a society that was created by a rifle doesn't implicitly encourage it's use. Would these shooters have been shooters if they'd been a different nationality? That question, of course, is impossible to answer.
__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame |
|||||
02-16-2008, 04:04 PM | #60 (permalink) |
has a plan
Location: middle of Whywouldanyonebethere
|
I enjoy the direction this took: from Crazies with guns blowing away people in classes, to the students carrying guns to protect themselves from the crazies, to why have guns to protect ourselves in the first place. //sarcastic//
Granted I can't say anything since a conversation with me has [less than] a 15 minute window of distinct information relating to the topic till I get bored and wander to the next [logical] topic.
__________________
Last edited by Hain; 02-17-2008 at 04:58 AM.. |
02-16-2008, 07:07 PM | #61 (permalink) | |||
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." Last edited by dksuddeth; 02-16-2008 at 07:10 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
|||
02-16-2008, 07:16 PM | #62 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
|
Quote:
|
|
02-16-2008, 07:17 PM | #63 (permalink) | |
has a plan
Location: middle of Whywouldanyonebethere
|
Quote:
Unfortunately yes they do, but statistically, you are safe-ish. There can still be mass killings in a gun show. Armed or unarmed targets is up the crazy shooter. I am not against guns. I am against people going crazy.
__________________
Last edited by Hain; 02-16-2008 at 07:28 PM.. Reason: didn't need to say something |
|
02-16-2008, 07:34 PM | #64 (permalink) | |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
|
Quote:
__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
|
02-16-2008, 08:00 PM | #65 (permalink) | |||||
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
|
Quote:
which is it? are random acts of violence so rare that nobody needs a handgun for defense, or are they becoming so much more common that people start wondering if everyone has gone mad? Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." Last edited by dksuddeth; 02-16-2008 at 08:05 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
|||||
02-16-2008, 08:06 PM | #66 (permalink) | ||
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
02-16-2008, 08:13 PM | #67 (permalink) | |
Location: Washington DC
|
Quote:
The conundrum is these same persons have a right to privacy with regard to medical records. I dont know how you resolve that. dk...do you have a problem with that current provision of gun laws? Should persons with medical histories of mental illness have a right to bear arms?
__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 02-16-2008 at 08:18 PM.. |
|
02-16-2008, 08:20 PM | #68 (permalink) | |||
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." Last edited by dksuddeth; 02-16-2008 at 08:23 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
|||
02-16-2008, 08:31 PM | #70 (permalink) | ||
Location: Washington DC
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 02-16-2008 at 08:37 PM.. |
||
02-16-2008, 08:37 PM | #71 (permalink) |
Wise-ass Latino
Location: Pretoria (Tshwane), RSA
|
I don't think the other students would understand your humor.
__________________
Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer. -From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator |
02-16-2008, 08:41 PM | #73 (permalink) | |||
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." Last edited by dksuddeth; 02-16-2008 at 08:45 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
|||
02-16-2008, 08:46 PM | #74 (permalink) | ||
Location: Washington DC
|
Quote:
Maybe in Texas. Quote:
__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire |
||
02-16-2008, 08:49 PM | #75 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
|
Quote:
|
|
02-16-2008, 08:55 PM | #76 (permalink) | |||
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." Last edited by dksuddeth; 02-16-2008 at 08:57 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
|||
02-16-2008, 09:04 PM | #78 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
|
Quote:
The fact that you only choose to be paranoid when it comes to guns overrides your excuse that you don't want to be a statistic. Either you believe in statistics or you don't. Picking and choosing makes no sense whatsoever. |
|
02-16-2008, 09:06 PM | #79 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
|
Quote:
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
|
02-16-2008, 09:07 PM | #80 (permalink) | |
I Confess a Shiver
|
Quote:
The excuse: "Oh, I only have a 0.04% chance of getting hit by a distracted, cellphone-blabbing driver in a zillion-pound SUV while crossing the street today." doesn't do jack diddly-shit once you're one of 0.04% that gets hit and ends up in the hospital with cast on your arms, legs, and love muscle. Turns out insurance companies still charge the same whether you're a Mr. Cocky McFuckypants or a realistic old hermit. Turns out to be a case of "last place ya looked" syndrome. Body massage - GO! Hey, statistics are good for educational purposes, studies, and being snarky... but shouldn't be something on which you bet your life. Pfft... I sure don't. Turns out I like this life thing lots. That and... I'm not a genius. ... Then again, I have my concealed carry permit and rarely carry when I'm by myself out 'n about. I almost always carry when I'm out on dates. Bodyguard syndrome? Last edited by Plan9; 02-16-2008 at 09:14 PM.. |
|
Tags |
dead, niu, shooting |
|
|