warrrreagl

May I see some ID, please?

PART 1: Do you hear this whenever you try to pay with a credit card? Although I appreciate the due diligence of the business in trying to establish the honesty of the cardholder, I've always wondered, "Why?"

Why does a business care if the card is stolen or not? Does the business have to give the money back if it turns out to have been stolen? Or is this an example of superb customer service?

What are your thoughts about it when they say it to you? In my household, I'm not allowed to carry cash, credit cards, or checks. Let's just say that the decision by Grancey to banish me from finances was .... er ... correct. I provide the paycheck and then get out of the way. However, when we go shopping, Grancey hands me her credit card to complete the transaction. They take one look at the card with her name on it, and then say, "May I see some ID, please." I show them my driver's license, which DOES NOT have Grancey's name on it, and they always say, "OK, thanks." And I always say, "No, thank YOU."

But what are they looking for? That's clearly not me on the credit card, but they let me use it anyway. Half the time, I think they don't even look at my license. My favorite times are when they scrutinize the credit card and my license side by side for a few seconds, and then say, "OK." That always cracks me up.


PART 2: If you were a store clerk and a famous celebrity paid you with a check, would you ask for ID? And if it really turned out to be that celebrity, would you keep the check without cashing it in order to have an autograph?

__________________
Living is easy with eyes closed.

feelgood

Part 1:

Step 1: Jeff steals Greg's credit card
Step 2: Jeff buys beer with Greg's credit card, business doesn't verify if Jeff is Greg
Step 3: Greg discovers that somebody brought beer on his credit card
Step 4: Greg calls credit card company and tells them of theft
Step 5: Credit card company calls beer guy and tells them that they sold beer to somebody with stolen card and refuse to give them the money for it
Step 6: Beer guy regrets not checking Jeff's ID out and implements a new policy of checking credit card holder's ID

Step 2:

Yes, I would ask for ID because there's so many people out there that can easily look like any celebrity. No, I wouldn't keep the cheque becuase its worthless to me if i don't cash it and celebrity autograph on cheques is worthless to me. The only time autographs are of value if its on sports equipment or sports photograph

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kurty[B]

I remember a website where the guy would sign anything but his name on the receipt to prove his point that most places do not really look at the card, nor receipts to confirm anything. It was pretty hilarious what he would end up writing before people started taking notice. Does anyone else remember this?

ratbastid

Yes, the merchant is often liable for fraudulent charges. As with almost everything else related to the credit industry, the merchant both pays the fees and carries all the risk.

If I call my credit card company and tell them there's a charge on my bill that I didn't pay for, the credit card company issues a "chargeback" against the merchant, and the merchant then has to defend themselves against the claim. If they can't satisfactorily justify the charge, they lose the merchandise and the money. So many merchants institute a policy of checking ID on all credit card transactions, so they can tell the credit card issuer that they did that.

There are banks and providers now that limit a cardholder's liability, and they divvy up that risk with the merchant, but any way you cut it, credit cards are risky for merchants.

Sultana

I have received checks for goods from celebs (OK, one celeb) when I was in business with a friend, and you better believe I cashed that check! But I called my friend first and told her about it, lol!

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At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

la petite moi

I have denied a customer at my job before because his driver's licence did not match his credit card. He argued that it was his boss's card, and that it was for his business, yadayada...I just told him that he would have to pay with a different method and perhaps his boss should send him with his driver's licence as well to prevent fraud.

biznatch

Here's the Credit card prank. Enjoy.

ngdawg

I've never been asked for a second ID. Guess I have one of those 'honest' faces...

On a related note to that above Link, Joan Rivers pulled a stunt on her talk show years ago-she had postage stamps made with her face on them and used them.
All the letters got through to their destinations. Same premise as the thread and the linked site-no one really checks anything, we're just conditioned to think they do, which is what 'they' want.

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Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

MageB420666

Well, i worked at a retail store over the summer. I checked everyones ID, and I did match up names and faces. Especially since I was a commisioned salesperson. If the store didn't get paid, I didn't get paid.

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Apathy: The best outlook this side of I don't give a damn.

Lady Sage

Many of you already know that I work in a bank.

Many of you would probably be upset if you knew how many people complained about being asked for ID.

I have started explaining it in the following way when "This is for your protection" doesnt work.

"So I should let anyone who wants to take money out of your account do it?" This usually gets the point across.

People are supposed to verify to prevent or at least minimize fraud. I have however caught the following in tha past year. Names have been changed...

John Doe II wants a cash advance.
John Doe II presents a credit card embossed John Doe.

Should I do this transaction???
NO
Why?

How do I know John Doe II isnt trying to pass me dear old dads card?

Truth be told no merchant should take my credit card.
Why? (Stop the bad thoughts)
My license has my FULL name
My card? Shortened version of first name. They dont match.

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If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Minds are like parachutes, they function best when open.
It`s Easier to Change a Condom Than a Diaper
Yes, the rumors are true... I actually AM a Witch.

xepherys

Yeah, technically a credit card should have your legal name, though middle initials are not required. All of my wife's cards and IDs have her full first name, though she never goes by it.

Also, yes, as said before, merchants are liable for fraudulent charges.

Also, this is a two way street. First of all, if someone needs to make an imprint of your card, never let the take your card out of sight. Even this isn't failsafe, but it's a big way that info is stolen... even AT merchant locations. Also, if they have an imprint of your card, DO NOT let them write your Driver's License or any other identifying number on it. First of all, they are NEVER required to do this by the merchant banks or by Visa/MC/Amex (not sure about Discover, but I doubt it). Always limit the number of identifying items allowed on the same piece of paper. This includes writing checks. I won't allow merchants to write my DL number on the check. Some places will not accept my checks that way... that's fine, I won't write checks there. There is no LEGAL reason for them to do this.

Most clerks don't understand the right and wrong way to go about things. I've walked out of stores with thousands of dollars at the register because they required too much information from me. My identity is far too important... much more so than shopping at THAT store. *shrug*

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Jinn

I routinely sign my name with a smily face.

Big circle, dot, dot, curve for smile. Especially on those 'automated' sign-the-tablet machines. I've never had a vendor verify my signature after using one of those digital ones. Its as if the technology is secretly making sure my signature matches.

And I can count at least 5 times I gave my friend my credit card for a run to the liquor store. Never questioned him. Once. As an interesting aside, he wasn't 21 either.

"Security" of signatures is a huge farce, only mostly done for show so that the $5.00 / hr clerk doesn't get yelled at by his boss for not "checking."

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TexanAvenger

I'm rarely asked for second ID as mine has a picture printed right on it, since it doubles as a school ID. (Also used to buy stuff on campus, it's my "Go-Go Gadget-Card") I've often wondered why this isn't done more often. Seems like for a little bit more effort you get a lot more security out of it.

As for the celebrity check: sure I'd ask them. Not only is it smart business, but then I could be "that guy."

analog

I had a woman yell at me through the drive-thru window because she wrote "please check ID" on the back of her bank card. The thing is, it's the kind that has her picture on the front. Legally, however, putting those words on the back of the card compells me to check her ID.

She kept yelling at me that her picture was on the front. I told her I saw that, but I had to check ID because it was her wish, as the cardholder, to have her ID checked. She yelled again, "it's MY PICTURE on the front of the damn card!" To which I replied, "and the writing on the back indicates that you desire an extra measure of security protection. For the protection of the card, I cannot process the transaction without seeing the ID it clearly demands."

So she huffs, and is cursing to herself, and pulls out her ID and slaps it agains the glass of the drive-through window. I immediately hop into "super-friendly" mode, say "thank you very much, Mrs. Lastname, you're all set to go now, and you have a very wonderful day." I had already started sliding her items through the drawer, and she sat there motionless, looking severely pissed off, for a good 5 or 7 seconds. Man, I love using kindness to fuck with assholes. It's the sweetest (literally) revenge there is- because they've got NOTHING on you.

snowy

Here's what makes her doubly stupid: your card is not valid unless SIGNED. "Please check ID" does not count as a signature. Every credit/bank card I've ever had has required a signature, and I've seen several people get called on that at retail establishments. I've even seen a person turned down for a transaction because the card was not considered valid by their business.

In our state, our driver's licenses and IDs are printed with our signatures on them, so any clerk who asks for our ID will be able to match name, picture, and signature with what's on the card and who's holding it.

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MrFlux

So... can you guys not get a PIN on your credit cards or something?

Swipe credit card, enter PIN, done. No I.D. / signature check required.

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flux (n.)
Medicine. The discharge of large quantities of fluid material from the body, especially the discharge of watery feces from the intestines.

analog

This is exactly why I use the card through my bank, so I can use the PIN and not fool with wasting time signing and whatnot. A lot of people don't. This is not to say that I mind if I use it as a credit card... the planet keeps spinning for me even if I have to *gasp* sign a receipt.

warrrreagl

Credit card fraud at Starbuck's? Perish the thought...


In my case, as I mentioned in the OP, Grancey has banished me from the finances, which means I am also banished from the PIN. If you ever get behind us in the grocery store or Wal-Mart when she uses her card as a debit card, I'm the guy who suddenly spins around backward as she starts entering the PIN. I'm trying to NOT see it by accident, and I look like a Secret Service agent protecting the back of my client while I scan the entire store from side to side.

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Living is easy with eyes closed.

Jove

Why were you banished from the finances? Did you buy something that was extremly expenisve?

Val_1

I occasionally get asked for ID. I always say no. Not rudely. I don't complain or elaborate. I just say no softly. I've never had my card refused nor have I ever been asked why I didn't want to show ID. A signature is suppose to be enough. Here's a little bit I found upon a quick Google search.
As I understand it, this is done for safety (identity theft and all that).

I use by boss's card for work purposes very frequently. The rule there, as I understand it, is to sign, (My Name) for (Boss's Name). Thankfully I've never had an issue there or I would never be able to get any work done. Using my manager's card is the prefered method of making purchases where I work because POs have too much overhead. And paying a manager to go buy connectors or getting him out of a meeting to get his license is just simply not practical.

__________________

I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day.

-Frank Sinatra

thingstodo

I never mind having to show and ID, either with a credit card or at the bank. It keep me from dealing with a world of crap if something ever happened, so I say go for it.

As for debit cards and using a pin, I perfer to get one credit card bill and not have costs come out of my checking account that I have to balance. If I need to do that I may as well just carry cash.

Oh, and never, ever, ever use your debit card for on-line tranactions. You may still be able to dispute a charge but it's already out of your checking account.

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Stangers have the best candy.

Charlatan

I think Americans are missing Mr.Flux's point... in Europe and other places, credit cards have a PIN number as well.

__________________
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Val_1

Americans do miss the point ... but that doesn't stop us!

__________________

I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day.

-Frank Sinatra

Lady Sage

Picture credit cards are great but I once caught identical twins. One twin angry at another was using her credit card... when checking her drivers license I noted the different names.

Snowy is correct! Cards not signed aer NOT protected by the mastercard/visa card agreements.

I dont know what stores go by but at the bank there are only 4 valid kinds of ID.
drivers license, state id, military id, passport.

PIN numbers are great but most banks charge point of sale (pin based) transation fees each time. Most credit cards view pin transactions as cash advances and there are fees there as well.

RED LIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!
Signing your name for another persons credit card? Please dont ever do that again! He could have you thrown in jail for that if he wanted to! He could call the company and say he didnt sign for those purchases and THEY could come after you. Please protect yourself! Have your boss get you a card on his account with YOUR name on it if he wants you to do shopping for him.

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If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Minds are like parachutes, they function best when open.
It`s Easier to Change a Condom Than a Diaper
Yes, the rumors are true... I actually AM a Witch.

warrrreagl

Lady Sage, I would just like to point out that I've learned TONS from you talking about your banking work on these two threads dealing with checks and credit cards. Many thanks for your insights.

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Living is easy with eyes closed.

tcp

Security measures at the consumer level are merely deterrents. Extra, annoying checks will spring up on a reactionary basis, but they will never become standard. The level of standardization now only encourages a systematic approach to theft. Even as rapidly as currency changes and advances, crooks will still do what they do well into the future. At such a low level, convenience is more important. Only petty thieves try to use a stolen credit card at a regular store. There are smarter ways to steal. Fraud management occurs at a higher level and acknowledges acceptable loss. Not surprisingly, most consumers are sold on the convenience of the flashy new ways to pay, while smart consumers can still look for security options from their bank.

It interesting to look at the malleability of money. The more fluid it becomes, the safer we say it is. With 1's and 0's in cyberspace, how do you ensure that money is tied to something?

MSD

My bank cards are not covered by purchase protection (chargebacks, etc.) if I use my PIN rather than signing.

Lady Sage

Thank you for your kindness Mr. Warrrreagl. I also have the policy and proceedure should anyone be a victim of identity fraud and whom to contact along with how to flag yourself for the credit bureaus to further help stop fraud from happening.

Any time I can offer any assistance to a fellow TFP member I will be glad to do so.

__________________
If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Minds are like parachutes, they function best when open.
It`s Easier to Change a Condom Than a Diaper
Yes, the rumors are true... I actually AM a Witch.

MiSo

i work for a big restaurant company and the CC company can refuse to give payment if the charge is fraudulent.

Plaid13

If you have the same last name as whoever is on the card they will normaly not think twice about it. if its a totaly diffrent name then they just dont give a damn. most likely while they are holding your id they are thinking why do i even need to do this. oh well i better do it in case the boss is looking.

personaly when i sign stuff after using a credit card or sign for just about anything... i cant even read my signature. i know its missing letters and the letters that are there are mostly just scribbles. but... noone has ever said anything. Just a nice big A then a few sribbles and a loop then a nice big D and some scribbles with a dot over the scribbles somewhere. good thing is... i can fit my signature anywhere. even on those little digital things that ups uses to make you sign. yeah if its missing a few letters who cares noone would ever know. Realisticly if someone wants to use a credit card for fraud that dosnt belong to them... its so much easier to do it online then using it in public. They can order stuff online and have it shipped next day or same day even to some random house that noone lives in. A house thats for sale or where someones on vacation or even a buisiness. Pick up the boxes the next day and never be seen by anyone that matters.

tecoyah

When I worked in Yosemite....I had a scruffy, bearded midget man walk in to the mountain shop one morning....and head over to my North Face Jackets (it was snowing and he was dressed in sweats). He did the typical touchy feely looky shopping thing. After about fifteen minutes he brought up a red and black Mountain Parka(about $300)...and took out a credit card. Something about the eyes made me curious, so I rang him up and asked for ID (card was not signed).....The Card said "R Williams"......and indeed it was Robin Williams. I handed the card back , and the ID, at which point he said "Please, Just dont tell anyone I'm here"....I waited a week.

Retailers are expected under law to verify signature on a Credit Card, Either by matching the Sig on Back with the slip...or checking ID. All My Cards say "Check I.D." on the back...and are signed. In this way a stolen card is protected from misuse, and my ass is covered.

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Lady Sage

Perfect!!! That is how it is supposed to be done.

__________________
If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Minds are like parachutes, they function best when open.
It`s Easier to Change a Condom Than a Diaper
Yes, the rumors are true... I actually AM a Witch.

debaser

I have ASK FOR ID on the back of my cards. I also sign all of the electronic pads KARL MARX. There is no need for a private retailer to have my signature on file.

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tecoyah

Thats totally classic.....Im incorporating that as of today


But Im going with John Lennon

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

1010011010

All the merchant has to verify is that someone has signed the cardholder's agreement on the back. Writing "Check ID" or somesuch does not 'legally obligate' the merchant to check your ID. Their merchant agreement generally says they shouldn't accept it or to require the presenter to sign the cardholder's agreement before accepting it.

As far as ensuring that the person offering a card for payment is an authorized user of the card... the responsibiltiy for that will be divided up based on the specific agreement between the merchant and the credit company. Then both parties will weigh the costs of harrassing their honest customers with intrusive authentication schemes against the cost of accepting increased liability of offering a more convenient consuming experience that lets the dishonest through.

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SirLance

My card is signed with "SEE PHOTO ID" next to the sig. I've never not had my ID checked. And I don't mind.

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DEMOCRACY is where your vote counts, FEUDALISM is where your count votes.

Dane Bramage

And you would be suprised how often you get asked. I recently put "Please Check ID" on the back of my card, and i get asked for ID all the time now. Most of the time, they only check to make sure the names match, but I suppose that is better then nothing at all.

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Lady Sage

Most retail stores print out the name on the card on the receipt. All that needs happen with this is one person in the back office to notice the signature is NOT the name on the card/receipt and call the card and report fraudulent activity. They will deactivate the card and start a fraud investigation.

I understand everyones desire to protect themselves but some of the things that are being done in this thread can result in the card holder being put in jail!

BE CAREFUL!

__________________
If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Minds are like parachutes, they function best when open.
It`s Easier to Change a Condom Than a Diaper
Yes, the rumors are true... I actually AM a Witch.

Elphaba

I have seen greater scrutiny over the last year when my tecnicians offer one of my credit cards. The card is in my name (obviously female) and they sign their names, very male dudes. Only our very long-term suppliers continue to accept my credits cards that are submitted by my employees. I view it as an inconvenience to me personally that I need to obtain some other credit mechanism for my staff. I also find the new restrictions to credit card use provide me a much greater level of protection, especially considering how much trust I place in my employees. (They carry cards with $10-$20K available balances.)

Our resident Banker, Lady Sage, offers the best advice for all of us to follow. Obviously, I had the most to learn and to gain from her advice.

analog

Show me a law that makes putting something other than your name on the signature line illegal. Show me case law. Provide an example for this, please.

Seeing that i can buy a thousand and nine items online without a signature, many retailers wave credit card signatures under certain dollar amounts, and many signatures are completely illegible even if the name signed is the same on the card (and this is fine), the above assertion strikes me as totally false. The signature is only there to give the merchant a bit of security. Defrauding the company would include denying the charge signed for by the fake name. The signature is between you and merchants only.

When you scrawl your name across the bottom of a Denny's receipt at 4:45am after enjoying some pancakes and eggs, you are not entering into a legal contract. You are already in a legal contract with your card provider. The only agreement you make with the merchant is that your credit card company will pay them what you owe. The signature is a security measure only, and simply used to assure you're the owner of the card. The only point that fraud could become involved is if johnny money-minder sees there's something amiss with the name in the signature vs. the name on the card and would only ever actually be fraud if you signed it a different name and then claimed to have not made the purchase.

And please stop yelling. We're not children.