-Ever-

This is kind of a unspecific, longshot question.
I've been into computers for many years now since my dad first brought home our Apple 2gs. I'm not what people would call a classic "geek" or "nerd", so computers aren't my life in any way. However they do hold a special spot in it and will always do so outside of my social and professional life. I've met a few people here and there lately who share similar stories as me and are making great money with computers. I'm basically wondering what some of the options are that you guys know of. I don't have any programming skills, but I enjoy working with computer hardware and all. One guy worked for some large networking company, and the other was some kind of consultant.
My thing is that these guys are around my age (early 20's) and already picked up good paying jobs that seemed to require un-extreme amounts of work in comparison to their high payoff. I'm wondering where I missed out!
Fill me in on what you think might work. I'm a good learner. I'm interested in both working for someone (networking..) or even better, starting some kind of mini-company up and going from there.
Thanks for any opinions
-T

edit: I'm also just getting my feet in some Real Estate work and am an artist in my spare time. Maybe I can incorporate one of these. Just wanted to maybe spark some more ideas.

__________________
Embracing the goddess energy within yourselves will bring all of you to a new understanding and valuing of life. A vision that inspires you to live and love on planet Earth. Like a priceless jewel buried in dark layers of soil and stone, Earth radiates her brilliant beauty into the caverns of space and time. Perhaps you are aware of those who watch over your home And experience of this place to visit and play with reality. You are becoming aware of yourself as a gamemaster...
--Acknowledge your weaknesses--

numist

College is a big thing, you learn more there than youd ever need to know.

I did a lot of things as a kid that I didnt even intend to help me in the future. Even in elementary school, a friend of mine were playing with powers of 2 and binary because we thought it was cool.

Learning is a long process, best done by curious exploration and an interest in the subject. My dad and I and a friend have a new start up small business, but succeeding as a small business is very difficult, near impossible. We just became profitable after a year, which is miraculous.

For a company - you need an idea, and you need to develop it. If you idea fails and you want to keep the company, you need another idea. Business is all about supplying something that people need (or think they need).

Hope that helps.

tenchi069

college if you want to be a programmer ( or if you have lots of free time and feel like reading experimenting ). tech schools ITT tech, new horizons, smartcertify, if you want to go hardware/networking. certifications are definitely the way to go for non programming. A+, Net+, MCSE, are a few that you can pop in google to find out more.

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Problem Lies Between Seat and Keyboard.

RelaX

[little bit of a rant here]
College is a diploma granting institution, but I haven't heard of a single college that actually makes you truly learn something. In truth I have seen a lot of people struggle along with little or no actual learning. You just know they are going to end up unemployed or selling computers at some store for minimum wage.
Granted, you have a diploma, you earn more, so I'd still say, go to college. But for gods sake don't expect college to actually teach you stuff. Be curious, don't just do it for the money, do it because you're a technophile and damned proud of it.
College is good for 2 things, diplomas and introducing you to various subject matters.

What I found now that I am actually at a company (only internship though so maybe they start the technical stuff after this) is that if you really want to be good you should find out which of the courses interests you and just continue it, even after you passed it, in your free time.
[/little bit of a rant here]

Anyway, sounds to me you should check out the multimedia aspect of computers. Maybe graphical design for applications or something like that?
A friend of mine is doing a course called 'Humans and computers' which is a course aimed more at interaction between humans and computers than the actual internal processes of the computer itsself. Sounds like a perfect choice for you, but I live in the Netherlands, so you may want to check if they have something like that over there.

__________________
The most likely way for the world to be destroyed, most experts agree, is by accident. That's where we come in; we're computer professionals. We cause accidents.
- Nathaniel Borenstein

-Ever-

Interesting indeed. So what I'm up to right now is studying general ed courses at a local community college. Knowing that I shouldn't work for money, I've been looking into real estate (work for money but at least semi-interesting IMO) and I'm taking one art class per semester to keep up my artistic needs. I'm not as much looking for a profession right now as I am a side job. Numist mentioned that an idea is needed to make a company, and Techni mentioned ITT and certification training. I guess I misled most of you (RelaX excluded...) I'm hoping to maybe join a small startup company or the likes in maybe webpage creation (with my art being my selling side), or maybe something like Relax mentioned along the lines of making computer interfaces more user friendly. Maybe I can find some small real estate companies in need of a website or some fancier brocures...
Just venting some ideas. I'm definitely the confused one here, just looking for a little guidance
Thanks guys
-T

__________________
Embracing the goddess energy within yourselves will bring all of you to a new understanding and valuing of life. A vision that inspires you to live and love on planet Earth. Like a priceless jewel buried in dark layers of soil and stone, Earth radiates her brilliant beauty into the caverns of space and time. Perhaps you are aware of those who watch over your home And experience of this place to visit and play with reality. You are becoming aware of yourself as a gamemaster...
--Acknowledge your weaknesses--

Zegel

I'd definitely agree with RelaX, atleast when it comes to the computer field. College simply wont teach you what you need to know to land a real job in this field... computer technology changes so fast that by the time you've learned something, its replacement is already hitting the market. Thus through college the best you can hope to get is a general introduction to lots of technology, but you really cant get specific training needed to land a job.

As far as getting a job in the field, its a little bit different than other fields. With most computer jobs, you'll be hired because of your knowledge, not because of how well you can perform a task. So the first thing to look into would be finding out what you like to do with computers, and then learning everything about that niche. If you like computer hardware, look into PC repair/support. If you decide you might want to go into that line of work, definitely look into cerifications, as they're great qualifiers for those kinds of jobs.

charlesesl

When you say college. Does that refer to college or any post secondary instution? I am a bit confused about that.

PS. Nice icon

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It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us.
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tritium

Consider a few possibilities.

Usability and interface design are going to become a major field in the next few years -- its already happening. You'd probably need some design experience and a BA degree to get in on this though.

A+ certification is a prerequisite for getting into many hardware tech support groups. Its a fairly cheap exam and your local Barnes&Noble has Idiot Books that'll teach you everything you need to know. These guys don't make $50k a year without a college degree though ... expect $32-36k. Usually hourly with weekends and "on call" nights.

Marketing. Requires a degree (Associates would probably be OK). Search engine placement and optimization (some programming required) is going to become an ever more important field as our national economies blend further. Designing advertisements too.

Web *design* -- different than developing. You'd develop the Adobe PSD files and turn them over to a development team. Its an artist position, but you'll need experience and a portfolio.

I'd be happy to help you further in your endeavor. PM me with any questions. I work in *all* of the above fields -- although I program too -- for a small firm in Macon, Georgia. BTW, I also have 2 bachelors degrees... but I wouldn't think that they were absolutely necessary. I work with a graphic designer with nothing more than a weekend certification in Adobe Photoshop from a local (Atlanta) community college (he later converted it into an Associates degree while working at the firm, but I digress)

These are all short or long term gigs. That winds up being totally up to you in terms of which jobs you take and which you pass up. I'm doing the small firm thing right now (they're an established print and video media firm, the Internet is a new to them) and looking for work at a similar place in a region I want to live in.

PM me sometime. I swear, most of the time my posts make *much* more sense. Its been a tiring day and my brain is shot right now (flat tire in the middle of B.F.E.).

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Blah.

feelgood

On the contray, almost every IT professional are trained in a specific career field and still manage to be successful. I'm in the programming field and a few mere years ago, my school used to teach C++ and Visual Basic as a primary programming language and now, they're teaching Java, VB, and Oracle. They're not just teaching me programming language but they're also teaching me the aspecets involved programming including developments, creating manuals, etc etc. Once you're in the industry, it's absoulttely true the the standards and the norms are ever changing that what you learned in college isn't required anymore. But when you land in a project, say you're developing a computer game, what companies do is they send you to schools to get some training in the language they want you to use for that particular project.

You'll find that once you land a job in IT industry, you'll never just sit there and work. You'll be required to constantly be updated on the latest technology, how it works, how to use it, etc etc.

From what you said, you like to work with computer hardware. I'd recommend you to check out Computer Maintaince, developing technical systems, anything that lets you play with hardware. I find that people that have interest early in their life on a specific area can be extremely benefitical to their school experience. Before I got into the programming field, I was extemptory in Math, Science and playing around with various computer language.

The deal is this: Once you get your diploma or degree, it doesn't stop there. You'll always be required to re-train in various area of your job.

What you're feeling is perfectly fine. I'm your age and I can be worried sometimes about getting a job or replaced by somebody who's more updated on the latest trends. Good luck on finding your career field.

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Looking out the window, that's an act of war. Staring at my shoes, that's an act of war. Committing an act of war? Oh you better believe that's an act of war

yournamehere

College is like most life experiences - what you get out of it depends on what you're willing to put into it.

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RelaX

[off topic convo]
yournamehere:
Not so with school, trust me, I've thought of this often and I've spoken to a whole lot of people about it (including teachers).
The problem with our educational system is that it has to serve so many individuals. It simply can't tailor something, so it imposes a generic education on you that teaches you a whole lot of stuff you don't care about and won't need and no amount of 'putting your back into it' is going to help you learn that stuff. Simply because you do not value most of what they are teaching you. You will probably never value most of what they are teaching you simply because you will not need it.
What they instead do is mold your mind and make it receptive to taught solutions and introduce you to (hopefully) the best kind of techniques and information on every possible aspect you may encounter. This makes it so that you will not truly LEARN something until you come across it in real life.
Haven't you ever had that experiance? Where you HATE a course and do as little as possible work on that course, then a while later you run into a problem and the methods and techniques you HATED in that course, you now LOVE, simply because you they solve your problem.
I hope I am making sense here.
So to sum it up, education is nice, but it's useless until you get some real experiance and run into some real problems and unless you are going in a direction you like. Education DOES ensure (if it's good) that you'll gain experiance quicker, but only if they taught you the right things.
This, BTW, is also why it is always a good idea to hang on to they books they made you buy. They can be lifesavers sometimes.

That sound also answer
charlesesls question.
[off topic convo]
Sorry about that... I feel strongly on that particulair subject and I felt argumentative

Anyway, webdesign is an excelent choice. And maybe you can moonlight a bit as the 'computerguy', fix computers of friends and their friends and their uncles and stuff like that for $. You don't sound like the kind of guy to do computer maintenance full time, you really need a systematic mind for that and you seem more right-brained (artistic) (I read the thread about you designing your kick-ass tatoo).
What would be even better off course would be designing cases for computers or something, have your cake and eat it too. Unfortunately I can't recall a time when I ever came across such a job so I'm guessing it's pretty rare. Maybe at Dell or Compaq or something...
Maybe you should look into that on a sundayafternoon, but webdesign sounds like a good mainstream choice to me.

__________________
The most likely way for the world to be destroyed, most experts agree, is by accident. That's where we come in; we're computer professionals. We cause accidents.
- Nathaniel Borenstein

Mr.Deflok

If you want to get into Hardware, get qualifications such as CompTIA's A+ or N+, even go for MSxA's or CCxx's. For software (in New Zealand anyway) it pays to do a college (University) degree then perhaps some offshoots like the MS Visual Basic/Whatever and C+.

I've been into computers since I was a kid and worked with them for over a year, I've got quite bored of it now and only do it as part of a side business after hours from my fulltime job (A-Manager of an EB Games outlet).

Pragma

A coworker of mine (we're both co-ops) went and talked to the VP of the place where we work, trying to get a full-time job. He's 19 years old and has his CCNA but hasn't really wanted to start college yet. He was told that he either needed a degree or he needed a shitload more certifications before he'd get a fulltime job.

The certifications require a lot of work dedicated specifically at them, so if you aren't sure you want it, I'd recommend college for giving you the chance to experiment.

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Eat antimatter, Posleen-boy!

Zegel

Ya, I dont think I would ever recommend not going to college at all - it definitely has its pluses. Like Pragma said, some companies are going to require that you have a degree in order to advance, and typically they wont even care what the degree is in, just that you have it. But it works two ways - if your coworker had a college degree but no cerifications/experience, he'd get turned down just the same.

I suppose it really depends on the person though. The point I was trying to make is that you shouldnt go to college expecting to learn everything you need to know to land a tech job. It takes a lot of personal interest and you have to be willing to learn things on your own. If you can combine the two, then you're set.

-Ever-

'

Interesting idea with the computer case design. I think you understand where I'm coming from more than anyone else. I'll be sure and take some kind of artistic approach to what I'm looking for.

__________________
Embracing the goddess energy within yourselves will bring all of you to a new understanding and valuing of life. A vision that inspires you to live and love on planet Earth. Like a priceless jewel buried in dark layers of soil and stone, Earth radiates her brilliant beauty into the caverns of space and time. Perhaps you are aware of those who watch over your home And experience of this place to visit and play with reality. You are becoming aware of yourself as a gamemaster...
--Acknowledge your weaknesses--

svt

From my experiences in actual "real world" scenarios, experience and some type of formal institution play key roles. I got a job doing sysadmin work for one of the largest hosting companies in the world. I knew linux and windows "in and out" and internet theory "in and out". However, I left that very good job to go back to college. Even though I was making really good money for a single guy in my teens (45k+) I wasn't happy with where I was going to be. I also program, which helped tremendously. In my opinion A+ certs get you no where, they are useless, even some of the old ms certs are junk. Real work experience is what really helps especially in the "art scene" of computers. Photoshop/web application programming are two qualities that will help you out. You should probably know them both proficiently.

that's going to be tough, there are SOOOO MANY companies doing the same thing, and with the advent of frontpage/dreamweaver it becomes even harder to stay competitive. You might want to get a job working with a team of web developers, which is usually how it plays out, the photoshop guys work with the cgi/application guys and vice versa. This way you get good experience and should be current with new coming technologies that apply to your work. I found that the people I worked with are really the best thing for learning, you learn so much from your peers. So if you want to be an "artist" thats cool, college definitely won't make you a photoshop expert, only you can do that. I'd say stick to college, and then build on your career from there.

rubicon

I've been in the IT field for over 10 years. Here's my two cents, peppered with some humor:

-- Avoid hardware support - it's akin to being an auto mechanic: you keep things running but no one really cares

-- Avoid customer support - after about a year or two you'll wonder how dumb even the smartest people are; you'll find yourself fixing user's self-inflicted problems and get frustrated at why the company doesn't implement a tight environment to avoid the whole mess

-- Web developer: if you're going this route then you better learn how to program and manipulate databases: VB, Java, PHP, SQL, etc. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE take a graphic design and ASP or PHP course before you start building web sites. I have seen far too many self-proclaimed web geniuses who think that pink text on a yellow background looks good. Or, the more animated GIFs and Flash, the better. And lastly, pasting 200 lines of ImageReady code when 10 would have done it better.

-- Programming: you can't go wrong here but you've got to know your stuff. Probably the latest VB.NET and C will get you off to a start. SQL and database technology a must. GUI design is very important too - see "pink on yellow" from above.

-- Networking: lots of good stuff here but it can be pretty technical depending where you go with it.

-- Server architecture/support - it's decent for awhile but then you'll start feeling the torture of customer support all over again. If the company you work for allows you to lock down the servers, implement security, and a controlled user environment, your job will be fun and a piece of cake. Otherwise, stay clear!

-- Security: prob not a bad choice but you might want to specialize in an area

I encourage you to look for a job in this manner: find a company you really like and believe in then find a job in IT. If you simply get just a "computer job" you'll probably hate it, especially if it's customer support related.

In case you couldn't tell, I've had my fill of the IT world. However, I'm a firm believer in finding a need and fulfilling it with technology. Perhaps you work as an environmentalist and find a need for special software, etc.

If you do want to dabble for awhile, I recommend a large corporation in health care or finance. You'll usually learn the "right way" of doing things which will pay dividends later. Educational organizations are a loose, fun, environment but tend to be chaotic. Non-profit, if you can find a good one, may give you interesting growth opportunities.

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