Hat

I met a girl on Christmas night at a party. It went really well and we didn't leave each other's company until we were outside of her house at 7am the next morning. She volunteered her number. Great. Okay I've tried to write this post twice and it keeps getting longer and longer. So here's a dot point summary -

Coffee/pool later in the week

*I rang her on wednesday and suggested we "get a coffee or something" after she finished work. She sound surprised and happy to hear from me and said yes. So we ended up having a quick coffee and playing pool. later that day. +
*Unfortunately I don't think this went too well. The conversation wasn't flowing as easily and, well, we weren't exactly evenly matched. The first game wasn't too bad, I won by a ball but did partly throw the game. The second though...even when I tried to miss shots I seemed to get them in. So after a while I started designating pockets for particular balls to make it more difficult for me and to even the odds a bit. I think she was getting a bit frustrated with the game...and me, although... -

*at the same time I think she was impressed by how well I was playing (I'm not that good but this day I played really well...unfortunately). I also helped her with some difficult shots which she got thanks to my advice +

*After we left the pool hall she said she thinks she spends more time laughing than breathing when she's with me. I had been making a lot of bad jokes and cheesy banter while we were playing, but... +
*I still felt that she was a bit bored, let down a bit or at least not enjoying herself as much as the other night. -

*There was also a lot of physical contact, but... +
*no kiss. Or kisses plural. There were at least a few the other night... -

*She also said before we parted, that we were "two for two" or something, and after discussing new years plans I said I'd ring her when I finished work (working until around 10 - 11 on nye) +

I know the best thing for me to do would be to just stop thinking about it and go with the flow, but that's proving to be difficult. I'm just concerned that I'm heading for the friends zone...I mean, I look at the positives and negatives and on paper it seems unlikely but, it's just the small things...like, she said, as we were going to play pool, that I seem "like a guy who'd be really good to just chill with" or something along those lines...to me that suggests more of a friendship, but she was saying it as I had my arm around her! Eh...also, it seems to be a bit of a one way street in terms of initiating contact, but then it's only been a week, I said I'd call her on saturday, and we last saw each other only two days ago...I don't know, I'm probably overanalysing it. And this is my problem with girls, initially I am quite confident with them because I don't have anything to lose (it also helped in this case that I only knew one person at the party so there wasn't any social pressure), but after the initial contact goes well I kind of freak out and my social anxiety and complete lack of experience take over.

Hmm, well, sorry if I've wasted anyone's time...needed to vent. I think I've figured it out - I'm neurotic.

Poppinjay

If she's bored with something, layoff it. You don't always have to be doing something, especially if it's something you like, but you don't know if she does. She may have been impressed with your pool skills, but its unlikely that she considers it a positive for a relationship. By her comment about just chilling, it sounds like, "if he's gonna drag me to a pool hall for dates, I need to keep him in the friend zone."

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

BigBen

Dude, you are in like Flynn.

To ensure that you are not relegated to the 8th level of hell (the Friend Zone), you must ensure that the next time you see her that you tell her that you are ATTRACTED TO HER, and want the RELATIONSHIP TO CONTINUE, to "See where things lead."

Don't beat around the bush. Don't think that she can read your mind and body language. You must come out and say it, soon, or the road may turn to Friendsville, population: YOU.

I cut pieces out of your post and quoted them. If a woman was to say some of those things to a different man, what would your response to him be? A round of high-fives, I think.

Don't over-analyze women, and don't play things cool. Don't wait for her to make the first move. Get in there.

/Ben takes off his coach whistle, pours himself a scotch...

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3.141592654
Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

DonovanDuVal

You might want to try the following ideas.

Stop thinking.

Go with the flow.

Playing pool might not be the best place for a date, but in the early stages it helps to have something to fix your mind on if the conversation dries up. I think that pool is a problem because at the very beginning of the relationship you are competing.

Try having a shorter date over just coffee where you just talk to her, look in her eyes and smile, and hold her hand, or whatever feels right at the time. Don't think about doing these things, that'll make you seem awkward, just do them.

Throw in a time constraint for the date so that it doesn't have a chance to get awkward. Have somewhere to be and tell her so in advance so that she knows that this is just an hour (or however long you want) for coffee after work.

These might seem like 'player' type tactics, but they also offer a common sense approach to keeping the relationship on track in the early stages. Anyway just a few things that you might want to consider.

__________________
"I've been Donovan DuVal. Take care of yourselves, and each other."

Hat

I missed out a rather important point. She suggested pool. We did talk about pool the other night and she said she was decent...and I said I liked pool, so, I guess that's why she suggested it. I had merely suggested coffee on the phone!

Yeah as I said that comment does have me worried...but it's only a deal breaker, so to speak, if I don't follow ben's advice....

Agreed. I sort of did before she left on her bus. She asked me what I was doing for the rest of the night, and I said I was meeting friends at the pub...an hour ago (didn't realise that the time had passed), and she responded with something like "oh really you should have told me I didn't know", as if she was taking up too much of my time or it was her fault, and I said I see them all the time and that I'd rather spend it with her anyway, but "don't tell them that". But you're right, I definitely need to make it clear to her what I want. I might be seeing her tonight (nye), although things are complicated because I have to work. Also, I think I'll ask her if she wants to come round to my house next week...or would that be too soon?

Agreed. And yeah, I should always try and analyse any interaction I have with girls from an outsider's perspective...

You're right, even though it was her idea, I should have just said coffee, and should have told her about having to meet friends at the pub at 6.30. But, looking into her eyes and smiling, which made her either laugh or smile or both, was an integral part of both "dates", so at least I'm doing something right!

Don't worry, they don't seem like that to me. They're only player tactics if you have the intentions of a player. Othwerwise they're just methods of not fucking up and looking like an idiot imo.

Thanks a lot for the advice guys. I lack experience and have only in the last year or so started feeling comfortable with myself, but with a bit of luck and some handy advice I should be able to give the appearance of actually having a clue. Hah!

motdakasha

Be careful you're not so anxious and paranoid of becoming a friend that you actually push her in that direction.

Also note, sometimes dating friends is really rewarding, so becoming friend status before possibly dating isn't necessarily bad. She might be that kind of girl. She also might be the kind of girl that likes to "chill with" her boyfriend. You don't know her well enough.

Perhaps try getting to know her, and as other people said, go with the flow. Then she'll let you know if you're friend status or not, and if that's a good or bad thing. Ultimately though, that decision is up to her.

__________________
=^-^= motdakasha =^-^=
Just Google It.
BA Psychology & Photography
(I'm not going psychoanalyze you nor will I let you cry on my shoulder. Have a nice day.)

Hat

Well, after nye I am totally, completely and utterly in.

Sultana

Oh come on, don't leave us hanging like that! :P

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

Hat

Haha I won't, but, I don't have time to type up an adequate post at the moment, expect it in a few days.

Hat

So, without going into too much detail...I had to work until 1.15am on NYE, and was really quite exhausted after that. I went to meet up with this girl (let's call her "y"), and her friends (one of which I am friends with and met y through). So, as I said I was pretty tired, and really not feeling up to that sort of social interaction. At that point I was thinking I should have just gone home because I wasn't to receptive to y's enthusiasm.

Fast forward an hour or so and it was around 2.30, and most of the people we were with were pretty much calling it a night. I assumed y would be doing the same thing as it would easy for her to get home with them. I said, somewhat unthinkingly (I suppose), that as everyone seemed to be calling it a night I might go to this club and catch up with some friends before going home (I'm 19 and she's 17...so our options in the middle of the city at the time were restricted). Y uh, didn't take to this very well, saying she wanted to spend more time with me that night. I said the same but that our options were heavily restricted and perhaps it would be best to just catch up in the next day or two. She then said that if that's what I wanted to do, fine, and that she'd been hanging out with her friends for most of the night, and that I should go.

Of course, her body language and tone of voice clearly stated that she would very much like to roast me over an open fire ( ). So, after trying to reassure her that I really did want to hang out with her, and at one point saying something like "if you're fine with me going to see my friends, kiss me goodbye" (she uh, didn't buy that at all, hahaha), I resigned myself to the fact that I would not be seeing my friends that night. Hah! I changed tactics and started stating the fact that we would be hanging out that night, and so on and so forth.

So that worked, and I started joking about how pathetic it was that we had already had an argument, and also that next time she was upset with something not to play games and just tell me...so anyway (it doesn't sound like a success so far does it!?), after struggling to come up with something to do with her for the night I decided upon going to this church because I "dig the architecture" - there were also some conveniently located parks around the church and well....8.30am and we were getting coffee. At some point she mentioned that in a week or two she'll have the house free and...well. After the "miscommunication" the night went really, really well, and in many ways I think the "miscommunication" precipitated this.

Toaster126

Seems like you have this situation under control... or as much as it should be.

Good luck in the future.

__________________
"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

Hat

Saw her today again. We had coffee, and then hung out in the botanical gardens. Tomorrow we're doing a similar thing, only I'll be bringing a bottle of red, a couple of glasses and a blanket. And we'll buy a few other things when we meet in town. So uh, it's going well.

Doos

*off topic* So what is the legal Aussie drinking age?

__________________
Don't be alarmed, I'm an African.

Conscience is what hurts when everything else feels good.

Hat

The legal drinking age is 18.

BigBen

ON TOPIC:

Dude, I don't judge people. It isn't my style.

If you are okay with providing someone underage with alcohol, and then dating that person.......

This outsider's perspective says walk softly. The difference in age between 19 and 17 is small, to say the least, but please remember the social taboos about the mythical age of 18. People may misunderstand your actions and intentions, simply because of her age.

It sucks, I know. But there you have it. An outsider's perspective.

__________________
3.141592654
Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

Hat

How melodramatic.

17 is just a number. She finished high school this year - most of her peers are 18. She is as good as 18 (I was her age when I finished high school also, and most of my friends were either 18 or very close to it - intellectually I was/am on the same level, and so is she). Further, I'm not "supplying" her with alcohol, that's ridiculous. She drinks when we're out, or at parties (she was drinking baileys - that she bought - the night we met) etc etc. I mean fuck, she's going to university next year; you can't honestly tell me she's mature enough to go to university but not to have a glass of wine, can you? The law isn't an absolute, it's merely a moral guide, and cannot be applied to every situation. If this girl was still at school, I wouldn't date her, nevermind buy her alcohol. I find what you're implying to be incredibly insulting.

Are you American? That is, from the country where the legal drinking age is 21 and possession of marijuana lands you a prison sentence? Yeah. Your "outsider's perspective" is failing to look at the extenuating circumstances.

Edit: My post sounds a bit harsh, and I apologise for that. Not for anything else though.

Martian

BigBen is a fellow Canuckistani. We drink at 19 (except for the crazy French) and Marijuana is practically legal here. And the age thing is still something to consider. It is just a number and nobody is implying that you're robbing the cradle or anything. For that matter, as a 22 year old if I were to date a 20 year old nobody would bat an eye. But there's that barrier between childhood and adulthood between the two of you, at least for the time being and while the majority of people probably won't care, there will be those who will look down on you for dating a minor.

Just be aware of the fact, is what I think my ursine friend was trying to say.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

BigBen

Hey, what I was saying is "Beware how things may LOOK to others."

I have no problem with underage drinking. Hell, I have committed that crime and contributed to that crime myself. I think that drinking age laws are bullshit, and out of touch with reality.

When I say Walk Softly, I mean that you should understand how others may react to the situation. Don't get all pissy when someone is offended by your actions. For the record: I am not offended. I think it would be sweet to share a bottle of wine with a new girlfriend in a romantic place. I actually thing that is one of the coolest things you could do.

And I officially request an appology for accusing me of being american.

__________________
3.141592654
Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

Hat

Oh. Okay then. In that case I apologise, especially for accusing you of being American*.

Anyway yesterday went really well.

*Hey you Americans, you're alright, I'm joking ffs

DonovanDuVal

Go hat, go hat, go hat, go hat.

__________________
"I've been Donovan DuVal. Take care of yourselves, and each other."

Bill O'Rights

What?
The law most certainly is an absolute, and is definately not"merely" a moral guide. Danger, down that path lies.

That's not to say that I wouldn't be doing the same thing, just be aware that you are breaking the actual "law", and not just someone elses "really good idea".

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Hat

. It's not all good news though. Well, the relationship is still in the "transition" period, so...for all intents and purposes we're going out, but not officially, yet (I kind of clarified this with her, she said she'd had bad luck with guys and wanted to make sure etc etc). Which doesn't phase me too much at the moment because the way things are right now I'd say that's temporary. However, she left for Melbourne yesterday (will be gone a week), so barring her meeting someone else/or myself (I guess...) in that time...well yeah. I already kind of miss her, I've gotta make sure I don't get oneitis until we're "going out". Assuming that's what she and I both want along the line. Heh.

Oh right. So hang on, you're saying apartheid was...good? Beer prohibition in the '20s in the US was "sweet as"!? OKAY THEN. THE LAW SHOULD NEVER BE QUESTIONED. THE LAW IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ALL OF THE TIME.

The law is essentially "someone elses 'really good idea'", though. Or rather, "someone elses good idea which has been agreed upon by like minded people".

You're a Repuplican, right?

teflonian

Hmm... I say more talk about Hat and his female flame in this thread and less potential political flames. In any case, sounds like things are going well Hat! Congratulations! That wine date sounds like a lot of fun in the gardens.

maleficent

First you insult Ben by calling him an American... Now you insult BOR by calling him a Republican? Jeeeesh...

__________________

Hat

Hahaha, he's not? In that case I shall do a thorough background check before insulting anyone again.

Hah, probably a good call. And yeah, it was a lot of fun. But I've set the bar too high! Now I need to come up with something equally intereresting to do, but, this is Adelaide, there's nothing else!! ffs.

Edit: Oh, I was also very surprised to learn that she's somewhat of an artist. I had no idea because she really didn't seem like the arty type, but she showed me a few photos on her phone of two pieces she did, and wow!! So good...one was of all her friends (which looked like a photo collage...probably partly because of the size of the phone's screen but still), and the other was a rather surreal looking self portrait...anyway she said she's going to draw me something...this is totally off topic but I think that's what I love most about getting to know new people; they constantly surprise you with aspects of their character that show themselves so unexpectedly.

Martian

No you don't. You don't have to have the perfect date every time. The objective is just to have fun and hopefully a bit of romance.

It sounds like she's really into you. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Hat

You're probably right. But I would like to. I don't really feel much pressure to do so, but at the same time...

Bill O'Rights

I never said that the law is absolutely right all of the time. I said that the law is an absolute. Something is either against the law, or it is not. If you do something that is against the law, then you are breaking said law, and by default are therefore subject to any penalties and punishments associated with the breaking of said law.

Ok then. When you are standing before the judge, or the magistrate, for violating a "law", try telling him, or her, that all you really did was violate someone else's good idea which had been agreed upon by like minded people. Let me know how that work for ya.

Say what? Ok...I'm not even going to dignify...no, on second thought I will. So, because I believe that the law is absolute, that I believe in obeying said law, and that I believe that unjust laws (yes, there are unjust laws) should be overturned by established procedure in place....I'm a (gasp) Republican?

No. As a matter of fact, I am not. What I am, however, is 43 years old. Yup. I've circled the track a few times. Picked up a couple of things along the way. Sometimes the hard way, sometimes not.

Now, I'm not saying that it's morally wrong to ply your underage date with alcohol. Done it mysef a time or two. Well, of course that was a lot of years ago. Point is, it was against the law then, and it's against the law now. And that law is an absolute.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Hat

Well that didn't last long. She got back on Wednesday, didn't message or call me, I messaged her on Thursday, she took ages to reply (and her reply was rather unenthusiastic), left the party we were both separately invited to before I got there, and word a friend of mine (and hers) is that she's not interested anymore, and sort of met someone else.

Bitch. Seriously. I'd much prefer her to just fucking tell me she's not interested, especially considering we know the same people and will probably run into each other every now and then.

joemc91

I'm sorry to hear that Hat. Unfortunately I don't know why girls do that. I've had three girls do that to me in the past six months.

Hat

Three? Shit that sucks. Don't worry, give me a few months and I might be able to compete.

But yeah, I just don't get it. Apparently she does it a lot, just moves on to another guy very quickly...I don't know. I did end up talking to this other girl at the party who I quite like...but find her to be rather confusing...anyway I suggested we get a beer (thsi girl's 18 so skip the morality lesson people ) later this week and she gave me her number...so I will ring her, and if she actually does want to catch up (as opposed to just seeming keen last night to avoid social awkwardness), that'll be cool, but I have a feeling I'm not really up to the task with this girl...but it doesn't matter because she's only here for the holidays and will be leaving the state in a month.