qweds

hey kids,

i tried a search but couldn't find anything. i will try and keep this short since that seems to help threads get read.

so i've been without a female companion of any intimate sort for some time now. as usually happens when i'm in this situation the size of my porn directory swells.

thing is I find myself in some sort of dilema or quandry. i always feel sort of like a shit after watching porn. maybe because i've seen lilya 4-ever. maybe it's because I was raised catholic, who knows, but it really does seem to me like most of it is horribly degrading to our dear sisters, mothers, and lovers.

so if i choose to give that up my other option is to head out trolling all the usual haunts in search of some woman who wants to think of me as i her for the night while we tiddle each others bits and pieces.

and when i wind up there i again somehow feel slightly sickened. again maybe any of those aforementioned causes, maybe i just think too much, but the whole drunk hook up just seems to demean all involved.

so, wrapping this up, does anyone else experience anything like this? if so found a way out - besides of course a gf. i don't mind being abnormal, just curious i suppose.


thanks, and i will donate again as soon as my roomate pays rent, pinkie swear

__________________
tim(mah)

Psycho Dad

That's where I would begin to place my bets. We tend to automatically allow religion to dictate our standards of what we consider right and wrong, good or bad, honest or dishonest. I see no reason to assume that someone that enjoys nudity or images of persons exploring their sexuality is a bad or immoral.

I can certainly see your point about degrading imagery that a great deal of porn involves these days. If those are the types of images that don't turn on your lights, don't view them.

__________________
Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

Funnel

I used to feel guilty after masterbation, and well that was a little strange i never got it. I think i felt guilty about fantasizing about other people. Well to make things as short as possible, it turned out to end up effecting my sex life and i would ejaculate prematurely partly because i felt so guilty when i masterbated. It went on for a long time and the way i solved it was getting a girlfriend that i actually respected. I don't know how to help you just telling you i think i have a general idea as to how you are feeling. Looking back i had no idea what was going on then but now when i masterbate to porn afterwords i just tell myself that fantasies never hurt anybody and that it isn't the real world so i no longer have the guilty problem.

Hope this helps.

hrandani

I feel -felt- guilty about porn because my girlfriend acts like .. well. Unreasonable about it.

But I love her and it's a sacrifice that was hard initially, but I was willing to make, despite how privately unreasonable I think it is, because even though it is now an ultra-long-distance relationship, she asked and meant it.

I think it has good and bad points. Now I more actively use my imagination and just see the things in my head that I used to with my eyes. On the other hand, it's not the same thing and part of my nineteen-year-old brain desperately craves titty.

I'm not sure how else to put it. I had been viewing porn in one form or another since I was 9 years old, which was like, the dawn of the internet. I seem to remember that pictures were a LOT more engrossing and incredibly arousing than they are now, and that masturbation to said photos was jaw-droppingly orgasmic, but hey, looking back now at authors that I worshipped back then, maybe it wasn't so great after all.

Scrub0

there's really no reason to feel guilty about watching porn. sure, in some cases it's demeaning to the women involved, but i'm sure they knew what they were getting into when they signed on. i just think of the porn stars as sluts. it's not demeaning to women in general.

if, however, you can't get it up/get off without porn to assist the process, that's an entirely different situation.

katie_ann1031

I'm not really into porn. The few times I've looked at it I've felt dirty, not guilty, because as you pointed out; it is degrading. I've had a few one night stand hook ups in college, but I never felt guilty about those. They were usually based on two adults scratching each other's backs. I may have felt cheap, but I never felt guilty.

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Newbie, but still I believe I am TFP's residentCheerleader!

healer

Just don't watch the stuff that make you feel guilty or depict women in a degrading or demeaning way (in your opinion). There's nothing wrong with a bit of porn now and then - it's helped me thru many a dry spell. Even now, mandy and I watch it together.

You've got nothing to feel guilty about. So watch, jerk and be merry

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alansmithee

I was recently thinking of making a similar thread. The problem with porn is that to fully enjoy it, I think you either have to a) accept that the women involved (for the most part) don't like their work and are generally treated as a product or b) just get so you can supress that knowledge. Now, this isn't all women-I'm sure that there are women who work in the adult industry and wouldn't really choose anything else. But at least initially, something has generally went wrong for a woman to end up making porn movies.

little_tippler

feeling guilty I think is normal for many people in relation to sex and sexual activities. It has to do with social pressure that stems from way back when it was considered wrong to make anything sexual public and also that you shouldn't have sex ever outside of marriage. Yes it has to do with the church. But it has evolved into a generalised feeling where sex is not a good thing unless you are doing it with your spouse, to make a baby, and are not enjoying it (God forbid!). I too have had to deal with this silly guilty feeling.

Porn may be degrading form a certain point of view, but that's not what it's made for. Porn is made for you to watch, abstracting yourself from everything except the people on the screen getting off and regardless if the enjoyment is real or not. It could be real. That's what they want you to think. And it could be you. It could be you enjoying anal with no pain and having sex with multiple partners. It's just fantasy. Porn is harmless if you just take it for what it is. People having sex so you can watch. Sex, that non public thing that you are getting to watch in every detail. What could be hotter than that if all we're taught is that you're not supposed to even walk around in your underwear, or even touch yourself "inappropriately"?

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

alansmithee

The same rationalization could be made for the so-called "blood diamonds". They are also harmless if you take them for what they are-a pretty stone. But to do so you have to ignore the fact that possibly children lost limbs so you can have a big fancy rock to show off to your friends.

Again, porn isn't inherently bad. When it's just amateur stuff, or if the actors involved genuinely are enjoying their work, and didn't "fall into" it, then there's nothing wrong with it. But those cases aren't the norm.

raeanna74

I have a feeling that the religion issue is a big part of the reason for your guilt. I was raised in a very strict religious home. It was so strict that pants were considered immodest for me to wear as a girl. Hubby and I now swing. I know that I have dealt with some guilt as for as this goes. In our case we are pleasing one another and harming no one. When it comes to porn for us, hubby has an extensive collection that he enjoys and I sometimes enjoy it with him. To be honest I have not thought about the fact that some of the actors could have "fallen into it". If it's something that they chose then they have been paid and performed it for the benefit of others, in particular singles who aren't gettin it all the time. In that case I see nothing wrong with it. Perhaps you could branch out and find new things since you mentioned that it might be partly a result of having seen the same thing all the time.

__________________
"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

abaya

I'd have to agree. As a female, there are times when I enjoy porn... but most of the porn I look for is ethically produced. Yes, this type of porn exists! I have one vid that is a real couple (both porn stars, but married in real life) having hot sex... now, I KNOW those people are into it, and no one is getting exploited there.

So I don't think you have to give up porn... you just have to look for higher quality stuff. It's like choosing to eat organic food or refusing to shop at Walmart... it's all connected, if you ask me. Choose responsible consumption that doesn't contribute to oppressing people and it reduces your guilt.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

little_tippler

Yes, I agree that not all porn is made with the best intentions. I was generalizing when I said that you should just take porn for what it is, of course there is porn and there is porn - there are things I would not watch because it gives you all the wrong vibes, of course. I suppose I was talking about the kind of thing I might watch - which would be pretty soft porn I guess. Point taken.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

snow wombat

The only way thing are degrating to either women or men is they have them do things against their will. As far as I know, people in porn accept what they do and are paid pretty well for it! We just need to get have this! And then we watch it knowing very well what we are about to see!

Religion as kept populations in the dark and felling bad about themselves. But look at what we find out now! Things much worst than what we see in porn movies. There is nothing worst than forcing innocent children into acts as we are baing told.

Let's be mature adults and accept that we want to excitment of watching sex acts. I feel much worst watching the news showing dead bodies due to wars and violent acts!

In your case, go with your instincs! Go to the gym, go to the grocery store....ut go somewhere!

jacquespratt

The problem is that fundamentalist prudes have convinced society that nudity and sexual contact is dirty and wrong. That's just bullshit. God intended for humans to have sex. If he didn't mean us to enjoy it then why do we have orgasms? What two consenting people do behind closed doors is no one's business but their own. I see rampant hypocrisy in the church these days and that's why I don't go anymore. But I digress. Pornography is not evil. I used to feel guilty looking at porn and masturbating too but I've gotten past that. When I was in my twenties I used to be ashamed to go into a store and ask for a playboy or penthouse magazine. There is absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying sex and if you can't have a partner, there is absolutely nothing wrong with masturbation.

Mantus

Is there any one out there who thinks that the majority of porn is wholesome?

I don't think it wrong but I find it very lame. 1 out of 10 sets offer someone with an intresting personality. 1 out of 50 sets are actually well photographed.

With me (and I don't know about the other people here maybe I am just weird) it used to be the sexuality of the model that got me turned on, not necisarily her looks. If some chick looks naughty enough, I am there. Which is fine.

Porn is a great catalist for my imagination but it's messed that I would "need" it in the first place. Ever have that moment after you are finished where you look at the picture and think "holly fuck, she is not appealing at all what the hell was I doing..." - no, oh well, thats me.

Anyhoo, after a while I realized it was more of a habit then a need. I still look at porn because I like to look at girls but it just doesnt turn me on anymore.

edit. okay I am a dirty liar, well done lesbian porn will do it to me everytime...its my only proof of God!

Oh yah, about morals...eh, I don't care

alansmithee

For all those people proclaiming that there's nothing wrong with porn I have a question-Would you want your daughter doing porn? Because every woman in an adult movie is someone's daughter.

Again, I agree that much of the stigma is from religious basis. But that doesn't deal with what I think is the most troubling thing about pornography, which is the exploitation of the women doing the work. Now, if a woman genuinely desires to work in porn, I have no problem with it. Or if it's an "amateur" couple that produces movies, again I see nothing wrong. But there are many people working in the adult industry who aren't there because of a desire to be doing that work, but because they have no other choice to be able to support themselves. Or because they were forced/cohersed by someone else.

Again, I don't really want to kill anyone's buzz, but my earlier blood diamond analogy is fitting. It's fine to enjoy the product (diamonds or porn), but just be aware that some of those who are involved in the production of those products are being exploited and abused. And after seeing the other side of the coin, I knew I couldn't look at porn the same way.

snow wombat

Alansmithee...do you mean to tell us that you would reject your daughter if she decided to do this? Would you prefer your daughter be in the army walking around with a machine gun? All I am saying is just don't watch it if you don't like it. If you don't like Hip Hop or any other kind of music, you just don't tune in and don't buy the CDs.

Porn is NOT reality. Otherwise it would not be called Porn! I don't agree with everything they do but I have a choice. I don't agree with the government about sending our soldiers in places in the world where we have no chance for success but casualties every day. My power on this is to vote againsts them next time...

Nothing like people comdemning something but they keep on watching and consuming!

alansmithee

Would I reject her? No, but I would hope I raised her well enough that if she went into porn she would be doing so from a desire to, and not because her life is fucked.

You are missing my point totally. My point is not that porn itself is bad, but the industry that produces it is flawed. And that if you watch porn, oftentimes you will be supporting women being exploited. Not all the time, as there are some companies out there that aren't exploitave. But you must recognize the fact that there are many companies that ARE.

And what do you mean that porn is not reality? Unless you're talking about Hentai, they do indeed use real people in porn. Those aren't androids or mannequins being used (unless you happen to be watching android/mannequin porn). So even if the scenario is false, that doesn't mean the people are.

And I have no idea what your pseudo-political rant has to do with this discussion.

snow wombat

Well, If Porn is as bad as you mentioned, we are an incredible bunch of bad people watching, buying and spending time on! As for company exploiting others, think Gas companies!!! What I mean by porn is not reality is that the story is plotted and they know what they will do and no one forces to do it. They accept before doing it... of course if you talk about the sex slaves that is something else!

Are you going to be more rude with your companion bacause you watch Porn? If yes, then don't watch any movies!

In any case, WE have the final choice to watch or not! Based on the statistics and sales, a lot of people decide to watch in this country and in all countries!

qweds

snow wombat,

i appreciate that you're from canada, really i do eh! but i don't think you're making much sense.

alansmithee,

i think you're hitting on what it is i'm talking about. i'm prety damn sure i'm not a prude or sexually pent up or anything of that sort. i've dated that sort of person and saw a strikingly stark contrast to myself.

perhaps to reiterate or clarify, i have absolutely no problems/qualms/objections etc to all sorts of sexual behaviour that are not endorsed or even condemned by the various patriarchal western religions.

as a matter of fact i meant the catholic comment to be facetious, but enough of that.

again returning to snowwombat, i think you're argument loses its edge when you make it so extreme. while certainly there are parents who would disown a child for undertaking that sort of work that isn't per say the issue i'm concerned with.

perhaps it's just that we've created and given our placid approval to an entire industry the reduces women to sex objects. what, we as hot blooded young (or even not so young) men might wonder could be wrong with that.

well perhaps nothing, who knows. for myself however the problem is such. i find it phenomenally difficult if not impossible to consider a woman in any sense until I have made a decision as to whether i'd like to put it to her or not.

clearly such a mindset is not entirely owing to porn but it really isn't helping the situation any.

perhaps i'm exagerating things and looking to far into them but i swear we're all huge hypocrits. we purport to live in a progressive egalitarian society and yet one of theprime tools of that society, the internet is 95% full of websites that denigrate humans into unthinking sex machines.

well i think i've rambled on long enough here, off to see john cale, thanks for all the coments and lively discussion ladies and gents.

__________________
tim(mah)