Sheepy

Okay, so after being at residential hall and going to uni for 2 weeks now i've noticed how shocking girls can be at like, being a mess.

These common types of girls all group up on friday and saturday nights, spend a few hours getting ready to go out, and get so insanely wasted, it's like when they get back to their dorms they aren't even human anymore. They become like, a vaginarel mess. They have to dedicate hours in the bathrooms throwing up and showering to get the alcohol stink off them.

Then they have these kind of conversations they yell at each other while slumping home, sobbing and saying how shit everything is. What dicks all guys are. how they won't do it like this again....

...only to repeat the exact same cycle of crap the next following weekend!

But that's not even the weird part. They also become really dominant. Instead of guys hitting on them, they hit on guys. it's a competition between them to get laid. I find it mind screwing. Many of these girls are ones attending university; some in finance, economics, management ect.

I know guys try act to be alpha males, but
what's the whole drive behind them? What's making them go out each weekend? What's with this new aggression?
How can the same woman who can spend hours in malls looking at diamonds and clothes, listening to emotional love songs also have such a beastly attitude?

Example of media

MSD

People like to fuck, and both being in college away from parents and being drunk are big factors that aid people in removing inhibitions

Plus, everyone gets stupid when they're drunk.

Seaver

What you see are the girls coming home who drank too much and the mess that results. What you don't see is the ton of fun it can be for the previous 4+ hours until they get to that point. They're immature as in they lack the experience necessary to know when to take the foot off the pedal.

In regards to sex, stop being judgmental. This may shock you but girls like to have sex just as much as guys do, and have the same raging hormones. Women are just now being given more leeway to actually *gasp* admit to anyone but themselves that these desires exist, and are actually integral to a healthy life.

At this point, as immature and inexperienced as they are... they are very likely in great mental health. A proper RA does not judge these girls in how they act, but try to give proper guidance on how to take the foot off the petal by 12am so they're not a mess by 2.

__________________
"Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas

Strange Famous

I think "beastly" is a little harsh

Most people when they go to university, its their first time away from home, and they are with a whole lot of like minded people, and it isnt exactly unusual to be a bit wild, drink too much, etc. I also suspect their might be a bit less wild sex than you imagine,

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Plan9

It's pretty clear that they're not interested in men. They're just out having fun. So stop trying to chat them up. They know you just want to fuck them.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Sheepy

@Seaver I think you've read me wrong, or i haven't been clear enough. I'm not interested in the judgements or wisdom of this, but the psychology behind it.

So i'm not saying " their actions seem to lead to negitive consequences in the aftermath" - why do they do it?

but "what is their philosophy to having a good time and where was it born from"

I don't think saying woman are now getting as much leeway as men therefore they are going to have as much sex is enough of an answer. I do think it is a part of it, but not the whole thing.

Also @Plan9 - why do you think that style of having a good time is the main one?

The_Jazz

How is this any different than what my freshman year friends and I did in college with the sole exception of location and that my group all had penises?

Or the group of girls that lived on floor above us did, with the sole exception then being location?

We could have a whole conversation about why women, particularly those participating in wild bachlorette parties, mock conventional sexual mores and why Western culture has evolved to make it possible for penis-shaped straws to be a big seller. But I don't know that this thread is there yet.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Jinn

Well, there's a great many reasons, including what many posters have indicated - they're merely doing exactly what college-aged men do as well. How's that for equality?

It does go a bit deeper than that, if you're looking for a purely sociological explanation. Following the "sexual revolution" of second-wave feminism, the bar swung a little wide, where women, who were previously shunned for being sexually active, became nearly mocked for not doing the same. The revolution was about the power of choice, but unfortunately many women have taken up the gauntlet of 'feminism' to merely became sexual objects (again) for men.

"What a woman was criticized for doing yesterday she is ridiculed for not doing today."

If you're looking for the particular timeline or the sociology involved in propagating these types of women, take a specific look at "raunch culture".. my favorite book is Ariel Levy's - Female Chauvinist Pigs.

From Amazon:

"Starred Review. What does sexy mean today? Levy, smartly expanding on reporting for an article in New York magazine, argues that the term is defined by a pervasive raunch culture wherein women make sex objects of other women and of ourselves. The voracious search for what's sexy, she writes, has reincarnated a day when Playboy Bunnies (and airbrushed and surgically altered nudity) epitomized female beauty. It has elevated porn above sexual pleasure. Most insidiously, it has usurped the keywords of the women's movement (liberation, empowerment) to serve as buzzwords for a female sexuality that denies passion (in all its forms) and embraces consumerism. To understand how this happened, Levy examines the women's movement, identifying the residue of divisive, unresolved issues about women's relationship to men and sex. The resulting raunch feminism, she writes, is a garbled attempt at continuing the work of the women's movement and asks, how is resurrecting every stereotype of female sexuality that feminism endeavored to banish good for women? Why is laboring to look like Pamela Anderson empowering? Levy's insightful reporting and analysis chill the hype of what's hot. It will create many aha! moments for readers who have been wondering how porn got to be pop and why feminism is such a dirty word."

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Strange Famous

Sheepy, if you want to attracts this wild woman, you need to be an alpha male.

That means drinking 14 pints of Stella Artois and then beating someone up outside a kebab shop. Girls love that. Even if you lose the fight you can still find one of the less good looking girls to take you home and nurse your black eye.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

LordEden

Has that ever worked for you? I'm curious to know as that is your fall back resolution to every problem you have ever posted about.

__________________
Vice-President of the CinnamonGirl Fan Club - The Meat of the Zombiesquirrel and CinnamonGirl Sandwich

filtherton

This totally has "Dear Abby: How we met" written all over it.

LordEden

That letter was already written when he met that MENSA member and beat them up in the street. It was a touching and heart-felt view of a tortured soul looking for love. I think Oprah is talking about a book deal.

__________________
Vice-President of the CinnamonGirl Fan Club - The Meat of the Zombiesquirrel and CinnamonGirl Sandwich

The_Jazz

You guys aren't familiar with sarcasm, are you?

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

LordEden

I don't think it's sarcasm anymore, I used to think he was having a big laugh about it. Now, I seriously think that is his mating ritual. I really do think that he would do something like this just to impress a girl.... and that's just sad.

__________________
Vice-President of the CinnamonGirl Fan Club - The Meat of the Zombiesquirrel and CinnamonGirl Sandwich

The_Jazz

Eden, the fact that you seriously think that ANY woman would fall for this, regardless of her inebriation, speaks volumes.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Strange Famous

On the whole I have found Americans are less appreciative/understanding of sarcastic and ironic humour than English. I guess its a cultural thing.

This is the sort thing I would tell a girl I planned to do to impress her perhaps, although it is only mildly impressing... the type of girls I go for are the type who would get it was a joke and a parody.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

The_Jazz

Strange Famous, are you saying that I'm a failure as an American?

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

LordEden

Oh I didn't say it WORKED, I just said HE thinks it works. It would never work unless you like strung out biker chicks.

*****

It might be sarcasm, but it stops being funny when you say it in EVERY THREAD. Then it just becomes sad and not funny at all.

__________________
Vice-President of the CinnamonGirl Fan Club - The Meat of the Zombiesquirrel and CinnamonGirl Sandwich

genuinegirly

I've never understood the over-the-top inebriated party mentality. It's vile, disgusting, and generally not my way of having fun. I have attended a fair number of them, even organized a few. I enjoy sitting and watching people have fun for the first hour or so, but after that I check out. It's no picnic cleaning up after such events, either.

Unfortunately the culture state-side is to shelter children and teens from all alcohol consumption, especially so with young women. So when they finally get away from home and have the freedom to explore their interests, they aren't already familiar with their limits. Tack on the element of wanting to fit in, and you have an epic disaster waiting to happen.

I used to think that sororities could be a force for good in this regard - give women training on what is reasonable to consume and how to practice safe sex - general positive mentoring opportunities... but this simply isn't how it works. Sad world.

So, what are you doing to help them? Silently judging them and posting about it on a forum where they won't ever read your words of wisdom won't cut it.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

james t kirk

Well, I was in University from 1984 to 1989.

I have memories of exactly what you're describing, however, I would say that it was the exception and not the rule. So perhaps things have changed a bit. I dunno.

But now that I am older, I agree completely with what my parents said that "until you're 25 - your brain has still not completely matured" (I believe this to be a scientific fact.) In short, late teen / early 20 somethings are still children in adult bodies in many ways.

Letting lose once in a while is fine. If it becomes part of your personae, it is a problem.

The one statistic I find truly interesting is how Universities in Canada are now fully 2 thirds female. (Those are great odds if you're a guy. Back in my day, it was about 50 50.) That's probably a whole new thread though - the demise of the Western Male.

Strange Famous

Well of course some American's get sarcasm, I think it is just less prevalent as a method of humour in America.

Eden, I think if you tried to be realistic there are plenty of threads in this forum and others where I try to offer the most helpful advice I can. The original poster wasnt in my opinion raising an especially seriously problem (in either his own view as far as I can tell, or my own judgment) here, so I dont really see an issue with my response not being serious.

But if you do want to impress hard drinking and adventurous girls - I suppose it is fairly serious advice that one way to do it would be through laddish behaviour.

_

Rather than fight someone, perhaps I would tell these birds that I was clever enough for Mensa and have no X chromosones because my testostorone levels transformed them into Y's. I have a lot of things going for me so I dont have to think too hard about a way to impress some hot babe.

Whats your advice for the lad? In his place would you tell the girls the best way to make pizza dough? Or maybe give them tips on ironing or washing your whites and getting them clean without fading them?

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

filtherton

I was cautiously optimistic about it being sarcasm. I thought it was pretty funny.

LordEden

I'm clearly not as adapt with the ladies as you are SF. I know the ladies just swarm around you, just to be able to touch a man as manly as you are. I would recommend they listened to every word that comes out of your mouth. You have to be the smartest guy I know. Why with THAT many extra chromosomes, you HAVE to be smarter than everyone around you, it's pure genetics at work there. I'm sure with those extra chromosomes that you are socially better off than me, I just know that you have tons of friends that think you are hilarious with your British sarcasm. I've never quite grasped the art of using sarcasm, maybe you can teach me sometime.

__________________
Vice-President of the CinnamonGirl Fan Club - The Meat of the Zombiesquirrel and CinnamonGirl Sandwich

Strange Famous

even a lion cant teach a turtle how to roar.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Poetry

I'm in Uni now. Graduate program, sure, but still Uni.

I've always found the party girls disgusting, even when I was in that age range. I'm all about sexual freedom (for both sexes, mind you) and being sexually assertive (assertive and respectful-- not aggressive unless with direct invitation).

I think it's just stupidity. Stupidity and a lack of self-control. Thinking that alcohol and clubwear is connecting them on a deep, spiritual level to Paris Hilton. Or whoever is popular. Paris/Lindsay/Britney does it, therefore it is cool, therefore I do it.

It's a simplistic explanation, I know. I'd go deeper, but I'm too busy focusing on the lack of personal responsibility and respect for others that these girls exhibit. There's no excuse for it.

Also, it makes it easier to generalize that women like me, with more sexual experience than those girls will ever have, are/have been drunk party girls with deepseated psychological issues and absolutely no care about who they sleep with. I don't even drink. I've had all of three glasses of girly, fruity alcoholic drinks in the last 10 years and I go clubbing regularly. Gyah.

__________________
"You know what? Fuck the moon! He controls our water and our women. I've had enough!"

monkeysugar

Alternately, be the guy that says "hey love, let's get away from this mess" or be the guy that beats the Fucking piss out of the townie goof looking to pick fights with Uni Students....

__________________
I've got the love of my life and a job that I enjoy most of the time. Life is good.

chinese crested

monkeysugar

Sheepy, Mate...First Year Uni students, or in my native tongue, college freshmen/women/persons, are experiencing true freedom for the first time. Men and Women alike enjoy altering their reality in the method of their choice and getting laid. Combine the two and there is a lot of potential for epically bad decisions, and a lot of really fun times. It is a tradition. Embrace it. Don't dwell on it, enjoy it. Wear a condom. Or judge away and look forward to a college experience of celibacy. Or take it a step further and join one of the cult-ish hardcore religious groups that tend to be at every college/university, and never get laid, and never have any fun other than the weekly invite all of your friends meetings that typically consist of a bunch of losers hanging around playing board games, drinking punch and eating shitty baked goods, and doing other dork-fest activities with a healthy dose of "judge the people that are enjoying their college experience."

__________________
I've got the love of my life and a job that I enjoy most of the time. Life is good.

Remixer

"Women are proomggressomging along a set path – high school, colomglege, gradomguomgate school/career, maromgriage, and then famomgily – and only worry about havomging fun while they are teenagers and twenomgtysomeomgthings. Maromgriage and famomgily now seem to be buromgdens to delay as long as posomgsiomgble rather than wonomgdrous joys. The irony of the sitomguomgaomgtion is that women have the greatomgest chance of attractomging a partomgner before the age of twenty-five, roughly when they are most attracomgtive. Biolomgogy, after all, is workomging against them. There is nothomging wrong with getomgting maromgried in colomglege or gradomguomgate school and waitomging to have chilomgdren, but this thought rarely crosses anyone’s mind."

"Femomgiomgnism made men pickomgier, and it also made pre-marital sex acceptomgable and comomgmon. Howomgever, we have now travomgeled to the oppoomgsite end of the specomgtrum. Men, by allowomging their base instincts to take over, have allowed women to degrade themomgselves rather than be treated respectomgfully. In the end, women sufomgfer because of the Madonna-Whore Comomgplex: men want to hook-up with these women, but no man would ever marry one of them. Evoomgluomgtion has taught men to value maromgiomgtal fidelity — from a bioomglogomgiomgcal standpoint, a man wants to be conomgfiomgdent that his chilomgdren are, well, his. No guy wants to have sex with the girl whom everyomgone in the bar has already done. I wonomgder how many women are now alone because of this senomgtiomgment, but I imagomgine that the Madonna-Whore line is difomgfiomgcult to tread."

EDIT: What the hell. No idea what happened to the quotes. Either way, all relevant points above were made in the link below.


Both quotes from: http://www.samueljscott.com/2007/10/...ations-dating/

I'll leave it up to you and anyone else reading this to make up their mind on this issue.

MSD

The most glaring of his errors are assuming that gender politics is a zero sum game and completely misunderstanding and mischaracterizing feminism to set up an entire essay of invalid arguments to support his whining that the world doesn't conform to his traditional sex-negative values. Then he throws in a few things like "men have unrealistic expectations" and "men hit on every woman they see" to try to dilute the glaring misogyny and regressive social views.

Sheepy

Cmon, experiencing true freedom? The only difference is that their parents can't overlook them, i'd hardly call that true freedom. Nah man i disagree, i'm happy with a beer, i'm happy having a convo at a pub and i'm happy going to an organized event in town, but just 'pissing it up' - what IS that? Being MAN? being one-of-the-boys? Really? a bit typical aint it? A way to confirm every now and then that you are the good bloke = what every guy is supposed to be huh. Maybe i'm not 'manning up' enough for you?

I think there are smarter ways around it than that, more cunning ways to play Alpha. I'm already going out to lunch with one of the most attractive girls in this college and i didn't need to do any drinking or night clubbing to do it. And actually i think it is totally important to judge the people around you espicially at college because you can be 90% sure all their parents are paying for them, and you can learn a lot from the people around you by knowing how they value their time and oppurtunity when it's payed for in the hands of someone else.

Chumley

Do you think that the popularization of porn through the internet, along with other previously-less common phenomena such as girl-girl kissing, and the funky shit that you see on reality TV, has led the chicks to, like, try to out-lecher the guys? I think on average everyone is a lot more exposed to porn by the time they reach college than they were in my era, and that has, at least on the surface, changed the overall perception of sexuality, and how to be sexy. I think the kind of activity you are describing is experimental (obvious?), sort of an attempt to take it to an extreme, and out-sleaze the boys' wildest fantasies. And they're testing out how much is too much. That's sort of what I think, looking at it through my almost-50-year old lens. Soon enough they'll be out of college and put it all behind them.

monkeysugar

Experiencing true freedom because parents aren't around to watch over them? Absolutely! Not everyone has had the same level of parental involvement as others in their upbringing. For people who had extremely controlling parents, once that level of control is out of the picture, there is a new level of freedom that they have never experienced before. Perhaps "true freedom" was not the best phrasing, apparently I wrongfully assumed the message would get across. I was a college freshman. Following that, I babysat and advised college freshmen for the following three years before collecting my diploma and walking out the door. I am fairly certain I have at the very least, a working knowledge of the subject. For the most part in the States, the vast majority of people who choose to party in college hit it hard and fast for their first semester, and it gets old. Then they hit it hard again once they are of the legal drinking age, and then it gets old. This doesn't apply to everyone by any means. There are some that hit it hard and continue to do so until they eventually graduate or drop out. I would be willing to bet that the majority of the people fall into the first category.

So you like to go out and have a few drinks? Nothing wrong with that. What works for you, and what is enjoyable for you, works just fine for yourself and many others. Those that choose to go and "Piss it up?" That is their choice. I will not dispute that binge drinking on the weekends is a much less healthy choice than going out and having a few drinks with friends.

As far as your parents not paying for your schooling, that's great for you. Really, working your ass off and making sacrifices to pay for your continuing education is an admirable thing. I say so mostly because I did the same, as did the vast majority of my college friends. We still managed to have an amazing time, and it was far from a four year drunken blur. We also didn't feel the need to judge others on how their actions or how their education was financed. To each their own I suppose. That could be an interesting conversation for your lunch appointment.

__________________
I've got the love of my life and a job that I enjoy most of the time. Life is good.

Strange Famous

I disagree.

Being the guy who takes takes the moral high ground and walks away from a fight means being the "best friend" who might as well just be another girl in the view of his boozed up sexy college chicks.

_

By "beating the piss out of" I assume you are talking about "wrap the car keys round the first and smash someone's jaw in, then kick their head in..." sort of fighting... That doesnt impress anyone. It's also the kind of thing likely to carry 3 years of porridge.

An alpha male can establish his dominance by throwing a few clumsy punches and then letting a group of girls pull him away and say stuff like "leave him, he isnt worth it." For bonus points you want a minor cut which can cause you to strip to the waist since you dont want to get any blood on your shirt, and beat your chest like a magnificent silver back gorilla.

What you are talking about just comes across as violent and frightening.

Woman are attracted to strength and dominance, not viciousness and cruelty.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

monkeysugar

I am not talking about "wrap the car keys round the first and smash someone's jaw in, then kick their head in..." Interesting connection of violence and frightening with what "I" am talking about when it was a product of *your* imagination. I am talking about responding to those clumsy punches as a threat and punching them back, faster, more powerful, and more accurate: fighting back, fighting to win. Not sucker punching someone and waiting for it to get broken up.

Or was this all just a little fun with sarcasm and I took the bait?

__________________
I've got the love of my life and a job that I enjoy most of the time. Life is good.

KirStang

Being a vile American from the deep south, I usually establish dominance by quick-drawing my 6 shooter under the noontime sun.

__________________

Poetry

Yeah, I've heard that about you... but I thought they were speaking euphemistically. ;P

__________________
"You know what? Fuck the moon! He controls our water and our women. I've had enough!"

Strange Famous

You sound like the kind of kid who learned karate.

That doesnt impress girls.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

monkeysugar

You are absolutely right on both counts. As I have unfortunately learned, being a kid who learned karate doesn't impress girls. I was so completely disappointed when I learned that karate skills don't get you laid that I had to rely on good looks and personality. Genetics be damned, apparently I must have one hell of a personality, because I've done quite well, and continue to do so, thanks so much. I really liked what you were going for though.

We're probably over-stepping the bounds of thread jacking. Sorry everyone.

---------- Post added at 02:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:01 AM ----------

As a fellow vile American, albeit Nor'westerner, I must ask: Is it gauche to say "Excuse me while I whip this out" while doing so with a 1911?

__________________
I've got the love of my life and a job that I enjoy most of the time. Life is good.

snowy

A couple of things:

1) Testing boundaries. As some have suggested here, Mom and Dad aren't there to set boundaries any longer, and so these girls are trying to figure out where their own personal boundaries are.

2) Poor executive decision making. The frontal lobe of the brain isn't fully developed until the mid-twenties, and the frontal lobe is where executive function resides--weighing pros and cons, thinking of long-term consequences, etc. Up until the mid-twenties, shitty decisions are to be expected. Believe me, once you pass that threshold where your frontal lobe is developed, you will go...WTF just happened? Why did I make all these crummy decisions?

Oh, and a historical note:

The absence of in loco parentis might also have something to do with this. Universities, up until the 70s, were required to monitor students closely, and most students were required to live on campus in order to accomplish this. I have a hunch that university party culture has changed significantly since the university absolved themselves of that duty.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau