toaster_oven

Hi TFP

I'm male and my partner is female. She told me that a few years ago (before I met her) she drunkenly kissed and fondled her best friend (female) in a taxi and that she enjoyed it, but it was just a bit of a laugh, she was drunk etc. She said it was weird but interesting but that she and her friend had never talked about it again, and they're still best of friends.

Later on I met her, and we started seeing each other and she told me the above story. She likes hardcore porn and sex and everything and we've been to a couple of strip clubs together and although they were a bit of a disappointment we still had fun.

We went on holiday to a foreign country and she had suggested, quite strongly, that she might be up for a threesome with another woman. I think I made a big mistake by (drunkenly) pointing out potential women in the bars we went to and she told me that she was a bit jealous of me checking out other women. I understood that and I dropped the subject and nothing else happened.

I don't identify as gay or bisexual at all, but if she suggested or asked about anything at all, I would consider it and to be honest, as long as she and I were together after the fact then I would consider pretty much anything sexual and I'd do it just to see how it was for the both of us. I don't have a secret longing to be with men or to live a polygamous lifestyle or anything - I just think that she's the one I want to be with and that we can try various things together. Basically as long as one person wants something that won't really hurt anybody, and that the couple will stay together and experience it was a couple, then why not?

Anyway, I recently sent her a text message and I casually mentioned that time with her friend in the taxi and basically just some sexy thoughts that I had. Her reply was very nice but she pretty much said that I should get over all of that stuff and that I should really forget about it. Her message didn't sound mean at all, but really matter of fact. She said that experiences with women will 'never happen again'.

I guess I just have to wonder, and ask this question of TFP. I would risk, and give my life for this woman, I think she is amazing in ways I can't even begin to describe. I think our communication is very, very good, but perhaps not perfect. I would risk my life for her. That also means that I would do something I'm not 100% entirely comfortable with, or that I'm unsure about, just to please her, because as long as we're together afterwards, and that it doesn't hurt anybody, and surely it's just a bit of fun? If she suggested another person (male or female), handcuffs or a video camera or figging or anything outside the norm, I think I'd be up for it, as long as I was sure it would just be me and her afterwards. As long as it didn't hurt anyone else I honestly think there's nothing I wouldn't try, just to see, and just for fun. I've promised her time and time again that she's the one I want, and that any experimenting or fun or whatever will not result in my leaving her, and that is a fact.

I guess I'm wondering whether I'm justified in feeling a bit jealous or left out? I'd do pretty much anything to fulfill her desires, I'd do sexual stuff that I wouldn't really think of myself just to satisfy her desires and make her feel happy (just to note that she hasn't requested this, so this is just my feelings) and I'd pretty much do anything with her, as long as we did it hand in hand and we knew that we could still cook a lovely dinner afterwards, eat it and fall asleep hand in hand that night.

Basically, I'd do anyything she asked, but I'm feeling awkward and asking her to do things that she has done in the past but won't do now.

Cynthetiq

Why can't you accept she said she's no longer interested in something?

Isn't that the basis of communication? You communicate your desires, the other individual responds, and thus there's communication. You have to accept what the response is.

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abaya

I'm a little confused. Are you sure it's not YOU who's wanting to do stuff outside the "norm," and you need her to make the first move so that you have a reason to explore?

If she clearly doesn't want to follow up on things she mentioned in the past--then you kind of just have to take her at her word, and let things develop over time (if ever). I am sure she will be more than grateful to know that you are at least willing to explore your sexual relationship with her, and as long as you remain supportive and open of that, I don't see why she wouldn't talk to you about it later.

But if she truly just no longer wants to do those things--are you going to be okay with it? I ask because the tone of your post is almost like, "I really WISH she would want to do these things, so that I could try them, too..." But I might be reading you wrong, so let me know.

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The_Jazz

I have nothing to say. Abaya and Cyn asked my questioned and made my points. I post only to reinforce them.

EXCEPT - maybe the drunken makeout session never happened. Maybe it was a story meant to elicite a response and now that response has gone on far longer than she intended.

Regardless, one of the big parts of communicating is listening. You seem to be waiting to talk. Listen to what she's telling you and drop it. If she decides she's into it, she'll let you know. Apparently she is good at that, if you'd pay attention.

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Jinn

This was my bet from the start. Lots of women will do something with another woman for the attention it gets them, and nothing more.

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abaya

Yeah, this crossed my mind as well... girls (and I say girls, not women) have been known to say things like this, in order to either get your attention or to gauge your reaction (e.g. when she suggested the threesome thing, and you started picking out girls... and she got jealous... which suggests to me somehow that she was "testing" your response to her suggestion). But that would be some serious mind-messing around going on, and I don't want you to start suspecting her of all kinds of manipulation if that's not the case.

So yes, as Jazz and Cyn said, communicate. Talk about this directly. Say exactly what you said here. Have her even read the post, if you can't find the words in a conversation.

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for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
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jewels

Or maybe the incident in the taxi did occur, and it set her to thinking. When you were on holiday and she made suggestions, she may have been fantasizing.

Sometimes, one can have a fantasy that dominates our thoughts for a while. But when we take the time to think about them, we realize our fantasy is a lot more interesting as fantasy than reality. Perhaps that could be it.

Since we can only offer guesses and it appears she's a little sensitive about it all now, let it go for now. Surely there will be a right time and place of intimacy where it can be brought up comfortably for the two of you. There were similar conversations between an ex and I at one time when I'd made suggestions, but I wasn't sure how I felt or what I really wanted. Eventually I was ready to have that conversation and knew exactly what I did or didn't want.

Patience. Women are women.

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kutulu

I think you missed your shot at it. It sucks but you'll have to keep that to yourself now.

speshul-k

Exactly. I think you just need to let this rest and move on.
She's clearly not interested and any further 'pushing' might just end up being detrimental to everything else.

Borla

You stated several times that you would do virtually anything for her, whether it meant sexually or even risking your life.

It seems to me she's asking you to drop the subject of including another woman in your sexual relationship. Yet you are not wanting to drop the subject.

So you'll risk your life for her, cross boundaries of comfort for her, but it's just too much to ask to forget this particular fantasy at her request? Isn't that much simpler than dying for her?

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toaster_oven

Thanks for the replies everyone, I really appreciate it. When I wrote this post I guess I was just feeling very confused. I was being incredibly selfish, I realize that now, and I was mixing up unselfishness with selfishness.

I don't think my logic is necessarily flawed, but it is too black and white.

My train of thought was this: I would do anything she asked of me, even if it wasn't a fantasy of mine. I saw that as being unselfish and giving. So, turning that around, I felt that if she was unselfish and giving too then she would do the same thing. Therefore, trying out our fantasies.

Just that in this case it's one of my fantasies that she has hinted at in the past. I don't want to sound like 'But we had a deal! You promised!' I figured that in this case it just happened to be my fantasy first, and yes I would like to try things outside the norm, but this sounded like a good one to start with, seeing as she had hinted at it in the past. It sounds like I read too much into what she said.

I think Borla has hit the nail on the head. "So you'll risk your life for her, cross boundaries of comfort for her, but it's just too much to ask to forget this particular fantasy at her request?" Perhaps I am/was too focused on wanting to be unselfish by being willing to fulfill her desires (and in turn have her do the same) but it hadn't 'clicked' in my head that part of being unselfish and open is also being willing to accept her request to not do something.

Thanks again everyone. I'm going to explain the above paragraph to her and let her know that I've been confused ever since the overseas holiday (and that was years ago now) but I don't feel like she's reneged on any unspoken deal or anything like that, and that I will leave it alone from now on.

Just for the record I guess, the kissing in the taxi did occur, her friend mentioned it to me and laughed about it after she found out that my partner had told me. Nobody else was in the taxi and nobody else except my girlfriend, her friend and I know about it so they weren't showing off or doing it for attention or anything. I don't want to go into details but she's not a girl, she finished university more than a decade ago.

toaster_oven

Thanks everyone for the replies. I thought I followed up on this this morning but it doesn't appear to have posted so I'll write it again.

I think Borla you hit the nail on the head. I don't think my logic was necessarily flawed, but it was certainly too black and white.

My logic was this: If she wanted to try something sexual then I would not deny her, and that means I am not being selfish. Turning that around, I thought that if she also was not selfish, then she would try things out with me.

So I linked 'unselfishness' to 'willing to try anything' because I think I would be willing, so that made sense to me. It didn't click in my head that 'willing to try anything' also includes 'NOT doing something' and in this case, that something is bringing up other women, or mentioning the taxi. I didn't fully realize that she was really asking me to do something for her (that is not bringing it up) in the same way that I could have been asking for her to do something for me.

I guess part of it was because I had probably read too much into it, and from the beginning I got the impression that a threesome was something she would like to do. She told me about kissing her best friend, she likes women in porn just as much as men, she wanted us to go to strip clubs together, and she had mentioned the possibility when we went overseas. I don't want to sound like 'But we had a deal and you're going back on your word!', but I guess I was always expecting this to happen, and now I'm seeing that for some reason, it may have been something she thought about at the time but does not want to do now, or I could have pushed it too hard, any number of reasons.

I'm 100% comfortable with her and if she suggested something for the bedroom I would probably give it as much thought as I would to deciding what to have for dinner that night, that is, I'd be up to try anything. I guess that's just me though. I accept that this isn't something she wants to do and I don't hold that against her.

Sorry, I had a much better written post this morning and I really wish it had posted properly.

Just for the record I suppose, the kissing in the taxi did happen, when she first told me she also called her friend to let her know that she had told me, as they had never told anybody before. So it wasn't to show off or for a group of other people or anything like that.

Redlemon

So, now talk to her. You said that you had pushed a bit too far for her comfort before. Let her know that you are letting it go. Who knows, she might bring it back, but don't push her on it.

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ItWasMe

If you wonder what happened to change things ... I believe, my friend, there it is.

Some women find they aren't up for it, once they get to this point.

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dirtyrascal7

Fantasy is quite different from reality. In fantasy, there isn't any risk. In your threesome example, she was only imagining the excitement and pleasure associated with that idea. Once you started pointing out girls, it became too real and she started thinking about all the bad things that could happen... "What if he likes being with her more than with me?", "What if they want to do it again... without me?", etc.

Acting out any fantasy that pushes you out of your comfort zone requires a LOT of trust and understanding of each others limits and boundaries. It usually takes a long time and a lot of communication for the people involved to be comfortable enough to actually go through with it.

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