lindalove

Anybody know any asexuals? I don't mean people who are socially awkward and can't get a date or a lay, I mean people who have no sex drive and just don't get sexually or romantically attracted to other people.

I think it boils down to brain chemistry, no?

Ch'i

rofgilead

You must have seen that TV show last night (nightline? dateline?)...

Lady Sage

Everyone knows hes a robot! A badly programmed one at that!

waltert

my roomate is 20 and seems to be very much like that. he has no interest in females (or males) whatsoever. he's missing alot of social skills as well.... I dont know why he's so "weird" but he is.

Ustwo

Asexuality in humans is a genetic dead end and a way to flush non-desireable genes from the gene pool.

That is of course unless you devote yourself to helping your parents have more (sexual not asexual) children, in which case there could be a claim to reproductive fitness there.

I am also sure this is not the answer you were looking for

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Ch'i

Nice.

NoSoup

Probably not what you meant, but i just came to mind...

*Leaning over your naked parents*

"Alright Dad! Thrust! Thrust! Just a little more, and I'll have another brother!"

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Ustwo

Hey if that worked it would count. The idea would be to have more copies of your genes in the next generation. The way most animals do this is by having kids themselves, but some like bees (which is ironic with the old birds and the bees euphamism) are asexual but increase their 'genes' by taking care of their mother and sisters.

Obviously for most in humans asexuality is a dead end, but then again so is having a lot of sex on birth control and never having a kid.

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james t kirk

A woman I work with (a friend) told me she has not had sex in 17 years.

She's married.

I would figure that if her partner was not interested in sex, she would have found an alternative by now.

Fitting the definition?

Pip

I'm pretty much asexual. I masturbate frequently, but I don't really want sex with a partner. I've tried a few times - didn't feel a thing. It was weird actually, having someone touch you on all your good spots and feeling NOTHING. So, um, I'm probably asexual. Or haven't met the right one yet.

So at least in my case I think it is brain chemistry. The wiring is there and all the parts are working, but the system doesn't respond to external users.

From an evolution perspective, I think it's the same argument as for homosexuals. A non-breeding adult in the close family is pretty much an extra parent/breadwinner.

Arsenic7

That's really not how natural selection works.

There are a lot of genetic disorders that lead to a decreased ability to reproduce, such as dwarfism, or albinism, or autism, etc, that persist despite there seemingly sexually detrimental nature.

Also, genes aren't the only cause of physical disorder.

Just thought I'd point that out.

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Ustwo

It really is how natural selection works.

Many of the defects persist because the desirable nature of sexual reproduction in terms of genetic fitness, this allows the defects to persist, and the defects themselves have evolved to persist. A genetic defect has a greater chance of survival as a recessive than a dominant trait, which is why so many of them are able to hide in our genes, while dominant ones tend to be due to spontaneous mutation and other defects in cellular reproduction (such as downs syndrome).

Deciding not to reproduce either as a conscious effort with birth control, or due to a lack of sex drive is nothing new, but it is new to to that genetic line, you are the product of people who have reproduced in an unbroken chain. Its as sure a defect in the end as one thats fatal at birth genetically speaking.

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longbough

Actually there's a psychological personality type called, schitzotypia. It doesn't classify as a disorder (e.g. schitzophrenia or bipolar disorder) but schitzotypal persons tend to stay indoors, have little or no sex drive, and are completely devoid of any desire to have social interaction. It's not like agorophobia since they're not really motivated by fear ... they're really just not interested in social community. The typical picture is one of a guy (I saw this videotape in medical school during our psych rotation) who has been working at a movie theater in the projection booth for years. He's been offered many chances to advance and make more money but he's perfectly content to work there alone. He lives in an apartment and never dates ... but he's not lonely. He just doesn't feel any desire for relationships. And he says he's perfectly happy.

Believe it or not, there are some folks (even some psychologists) who consider this a disorder and believe schitzotypals require therapy and/or meds to help them socialize. I think that's wrong. If the guy is happy what's the point? If the guy isn't happy then, by definition, he's not schitzotypal but agorophobic and xenophobic.

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Min

I have heard asexuality used as the term used for those persons that feel neither really 'male' or 'female'...they don't feel neuter but a good smattering of both. I've also heared 'intersexed' and a few others. There doesn't seem to be a word that quite fits the personality type that I am aware of at the moment.

high_jinx

i almost fit in this category. it's been years since i got laid, and it's not from lack of oppurnity. im pretty damn good lookin and extremely socially adept... im one of those people that get life stories from strangers on a plane because they are automatically comfortable with me. I go out, but it's more like im brought out because my friends want me to go with them than it is my idea.

when it comes to dating, it's tough to tell the reasons im not into it. part of it is where i want to be when i start a relationship, in terms of both fitness and standard of living... im just not where i want to be to take care of someone else the way i'd like to. it also stems from me being extremely picky about the girls im attracted to (with looks AND personality) and my stubborness on not "settling" for less. also, as discussed in other threads, i live in los angeles and there isn't a more hostile environment with girls on the planet. they generally all have a wall up here and also enjoy stirring up drama with people they are close to and twisting their emotions into pretzels. so they are tough to get to know to begin with and then they take you on awkward rollercoaster rides when you finally do get close to them... i guess this just boils down to TMW for me....Too Much Work.

at some point, everything with girls kinda started to feel abstract to me. i know in my head that it's like riding a bike and natural, but i can't help but feel that i have a lot of catching up to do since i've been reclusive for so long and that bringing me up to speed would be a burden on someone else.

on a social non-romantic level, i feel like my life is busting at the seams.... like i don't get enough alone time to just relax in my apt. with my thoughts. i'm real tight with my friends and have an open door policy, so my place has become a revolving door of them coming over. so, i don't seek it out but i end up receiving plenty of attention and social interaction. i don't know, maybe i'd get lonely and go out more if i was left alone more, but it sure doesn't feel like it. i look forward to "don't-move-my-car" weekends where i know i'm not gonna have to go anywhere or see anyone.

all in all, i think i have a great life. i know things can always get better and i strive for that and to keep an open mind, but i definitely don't think being alone is the end of the world and im in no hurry whatsoever to change that part of my life.

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Jozrael

Aye, I have an asexual friend. She just has zero sex drive. Has plenty of friends, male/female. Just the concept of any sort of sex gives her zero arousal. She likes reading.

I personally can't understand it, but accept her for the cool gal she is.

MissTiger

I actually have a friend who considers himself/herself asexual. He/she has identity issues, too, and isn't sure which sex he/she relates to more....which makes it really hard to refer to the person without lots of slashes, but it's really the only fair way to do it. He/she has no sex drive at all, with either gender, on top of not knowing where he/she quite fits with the rest of the world's clear cut gender definitions. In general, he/she doesn't have many social problems....lots of friends, easily speaks to people (even openly about the self-identity stuff), etc....but there's just no drive there at all.

Min

I would say, personally, I fit into the 'I'm a bit of both' gender area. I am not confused now though it was confusing when I was younger because of the set roles I was presented in childhood. I haven't had sex in 7 years and I can't say I regret it. I simply haven't found anyone that attracts me that way. Although, I would say I do have a sex drive just perhaps not a 'normal' one. *shrugs* I'm happy.

Gilda

Asexuality is lack or physical attraction to either sex. It's orientation, not really related to gender identity, which is one's internal sense of being male or female.

What you describe would be androgyny when used to describe outward physical apperance. Those who feel they have a mixture of male and female personality traits have in recent years taken to referring themselves as bigender, to distinguish the inner person from the outer expression, which do not always coincide.

As to why people are asexual, it may be due to brain chemistry, it may be just a normal variant along the libido continuum--some have a very high libido, some a much lower one. It can also be a matter of hormone levels. Men and woman with high sex drives and dominant sexual tendancies tend to have a higher than normal level of free androgens in their system compared to others of their sex, and those with low sex drives and/or submissive sexual characteristics tend to have lower free androgen levels compared to others of their sex. Estrogens play a part, but it's much less important. Both sexes need a minimal level of estrogen to function normally both in terms of certain brain functions and sexual function, as well as other physiological processes, but increases beyond that minimal level do not result in a linear increase in libido.

Some post op MTF transsexuals take small testosterone supplements to maintain their libidos and increase intensity of sexual response.

It's most likely a combination of genetic, hormonal, and socialization factors, a little different for each person.

Gilda

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Kensei

Hmm, I would say that this person, along with many others, has some mental problems. mental illness should not be frowned upon, or seen as shameful.

If you are married but have not had sex in 17 years, or are 20 years old and a man and don't like sex, then something is wrong, it is that simple. Asexuality is really a choice, though it may be so deept seated that it seems like a natural state.

Usually there is some kind of trauma in ones past, overbearing parents who drilled some religious nonsense int ones head, abuse of some kind, a myriad of reasons. Believe me, asexuality is not a normal or a healthy state.

doncalypso

You're not asexual... you're just much more into self sex than sex with someone else. If you were really asexual you wouldn't even masturbate.

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Kensei

I'd have to agree with don, if you were "asexual" there would not even be masturbation going on, this is a contradiction.

Likely you have intimacy issues, and this is how they manifest. I would look into your past atr your childhood, what kinds of ideas did your parents give you about sex, how was it viewed. Also, was there any sexual abuse of any kind, this is the most common reason for what you call asexuality.

A close second is emotional abuse, such as drilling into a kids head that sex is wrong, or dirty, and other such nonsense.

Jozrael

Kensei, I heartily disagree with you.

Just because someone has different views from societal norms does not mean they have mental problems. I hear they stopped classifying homosexuality as a mental disorder in the 90s - obviously, it was just society waking up, not it suddenly becoming 'okay'. Just because someone's asexual does not mean there's anything wrong with them, at all. If they WANT to have a sex drive and they can't get it on, -then- there's a problem. But if they're perfectly content, there's no problem.

Just because you're married and haven't had sex in 17 years means nothing. Some people's marriages are based on sex, some are based on a mixture of sex and other things, some are based ENTIRELY on other things! Who are we to determine what's right for another marriage?

And just because you're a 20-year-old guy who doesn't like sex does not mean there's something wrong with you. Just because society and the media drill into our heads that we have to be raving sexual dynamos at that age does not mean that it's true.

Asexuality MAY be a choice - if you're not asexual, you really can't claim to know. I'm not, I don't claim to know. All I know is this girl says it's not a choice, it's how she is inside - don't take away her identity.

I urge you to look at www.asexuality.org before continuing to say that it is largely caused by abuse or brainwashing. They have a great deal of info there that may be illuminating.

Of course - feel free to your opinions! I just object to you labelling in one fell swoop all those who identify as asexuals as mentally deficient and calling it a negative thing.

Cheers!

Kensei

[QUOTE=Jozrael]Kensei, I heartily disagree with you.

Just because someone has different views from societal norms does not mean they have mental problems. I hear they stopped classifying homosexuality as a mental disorder in the 90s - obviously, it was just society waking up, not it suddenly becoming 'okay'. Just because someone's asexual does not mean there's anything wrong with them, at all. If they WANT to have a sex drive and they can't get it on, -then- there's a problem. But if they're perfectly content, there's no problem.

Just because you're married and haven't had sex in 17 years means nothing. Some people's marriages are based on sex, some are based on a mixture of sex and other things, some are based ENTIRELY on other things! Who are we to determine what's right for another marriage?

And just because you're a 20-year-old guy who doesn't like sex does not mean there's something wrong with you. Just because society and the media drill into our heads that we have to be raving sexual dynamos at that age does not mean that it's true.

Asexuality MAY be a choice - if you're not asexual, you really can't claim to know. I'm not, I don't claim to know. All I know is this girl says it's not a choice, it's how she is inside - don't take away her identity.

I urge you to look at www.asexuality.org before continuing to say that it is largely caused by abuse or brainwashing. They have a great deal of info there that may be illuminating.

Of course - feel free to your opinions! I just object to you labelling in one fell swoop all those who identify as asexuals as mentally deficient and calling it a negative thing.

Cheers![/QUOTE


Uh huh, well, your entitled to your opinion, but I agree to disagree with you. Sure, it can be a choice like anything. Choosing not to eat is a choice. CFhoosing to eat very little is a choice. Oh, you will become as walking mummy, but it's a choice, so there's nothing wrong with it, and since it's a choice, it's not a mental illness. Interesting logic you have.

I do not know why you brought homosexuality up, they like and have sex, so really thats not a fair comparison. As to having no sex drive, it can indeed be biochemical as well as mental, no question. Man might need Testosterone, woman might need estrogen, a shortage of both is common enough, and a sever deficiency can impair ones sex drive to the point of not having one, no question.

I did not claim that all those lacking a sex drive suffer from a mental illness, but man do my friend. And then some suffer from a biochemical imbalance, that is easily treatable, if they care to get it treated. Beyond that, choosing to actually never have sex when you have a sex drive is, well, certainly not healthy, and I would wonder at the persons reason. Oh, and if they masturbate they are certainly not asexual.

You seem to be looking for a fight, sorry, won't get one here, your of course right, as I just said, not all those who have no sex drive suffer from mental problems, but a large portion do, sorry, but they do. You seem to associate mental illness with then word stigma, as if it is somehow worse then other things, and a shameful thing. It is not, and you need to get over those nasty labels.

Anyhow, I have to disagree with you that it is normal. True, what is considered normal is too set in stone, but some things are just plain common sense my friend, don't you agree?

Well, I'm outta here, take care.

Jozrael

See, now, I brought up homosexuality as another example of society condemning a choice, comparing it to asexuality. I chose the first example that came to mind of a similar issue.

Choosing not to eat is an entirely other issue - this is called 'straw manning' the issue. Obviously, one shouldn't choose not to eat - it usually ends up with them breaking out in a bad case of death. Choosing not to have sex simply stops your genes from entering the gene pool.

I don't see a huge problem with that. It's not going to end your life before your time. I mean, really, not having sex is not the same thing as not eating (although I'm sure there are plenty who'd disagree in a joking manner XD).

I don't see where you get my logic of 'it's a choice, so it's not a mental illness'. I think plenty of mental illnesses are (or at least involve) choices (not saying all do). I don't think they're directly or inversely analogous at all.

Now, if asexuality is brought on as a result of not having hormones, I don't think that in itself is a problem. The problem, in my opinion, is that those are a natural part of a healthy body (the hormones) and many necessary processes for an enjoyable life (I'm not talking sex here) are impaired - so, in that case, I think hormonal treatment should be invoked, not for the asexuality but for other issues. But that is neither here nor there.

I'm curious, actually - what mental illnesses cause asexuality? I don't know of any, but then again I'm not very well informed at all. So if possible, please expound upon this subject.

And asexuals certainly can masturbate. Please go to www.asexuality.org and read their FAQ, under...MASTURBATION.

I'll post it here for expediency.

I masturbate, what do you make of that then?

Most asexuals are physically capable of sex. Some masturbate and some don't. Masturbation produces a pleasurable sensation and as such many asexuals choose to use it to take pleasure from their bodies. Many asexuals can only arouse themselves manually (by applying friction to sexual organs), others can turn themselves on with thought.

The distinction between sexual and asexual people is that, if asexuals think about other people during masturbation (many asexuals don't think about anything specifically sexual) it is only as fantasy. If they actually were given the opportunity to be sexual with that person there would be no attraction, or the drive would be so low as to be completely ignorable.

Some asexuals may be considered autosexual, they have the drive to take pleasure from their own body. Other masturbating asexuals do not have a sexual drive motivating them, they just do it because it's nice. The common factor is that all asexuals, masturbating or not, have little or no sexual attraction to other people.

(End of quote).

Please see the last sentence of that last paragraph.

You seem to be mistaken. I have no quarrel with you! I'd just like it if you didn't label my asexual friends as suffering from mental disorders.

One more thing about that - you claim that a large portion do suffer from mental illnesses. While I'm willing to concede that there may be a mental illness or several out there that cause asexuality, I doubt that they are the majority. However, I have no proof to back this up. If you have proof, however, such as a medical article with percentages of asexuals and their underlying causes, I'd appreciate that. I would lend much more credence to your theory, personally.

I do associate mental illness with a stigma. I think it is a BAD thing to have a mental illness - hence the word 'illness'. www.dictionary.com has a good definition if you'd like. As if it is somehow worse than other things...what other things? As opposed to not having it? Aye, I think it much preferable to not have a mental illness than to have one. Shameful? Please quote me where I talk of mental illnesses as shameful. Please. Quite the contrary. I am quite sorry for those with mental illnesses - I feel pity for them. But I don't think it is a thing to be ashamed about.

I happen to be ADHD, one of those who was correctly diagnosed as a child and not simply medicated to be tranquilized. I'd prefer I not have it - a mental illness is not a benefit! But am I ASHAMED of it? Never. It is part of my identity, and I'll never be ashamed with who I am at my core.

At least we agree that they are not shameful, and hopefully I've let you see that I don't think it a 'nasty label'. It is a label, aye, unfortunately they are unavoidable - but it is merely that, a label. It carries no stigma in my mind except possibly pity, which I cannot help. (I'd rather others not pity me, so I'm sure others would not want me to pity them, but I can't help it - my apologies).

Some things are common sense, Kensei, but I would not classify this as one. Someone's sexual drive is their own business - we are all wired differently, and I think I'd have to have a PhD in pyschology before I started considering the psyche common sense - it holds far too many wonders and uncertainties for me to claim the smallest grasp of it.

Erm, I'm rambling.

Aye, I disagree with you that it is normal - that's okay, though . I agree, asexuals are in the tiniest of minorities. But I think that's okay.

Just my perspective.

I'd like to hear your response to this, if you haven't left the thread yet. Take care to you as well .

Anyhow, I have to disagree with you that it is normal. True, what is considered normal is too set in stone, but some things are just plain common sense my friend, don't you agree?

Well, I'm outta here, take care.

EDIT: Jeezgod that was long, didn't realize that. Sorry for my verbosity, I like to take my time to write things out. I'll eventually learn to be concise.

EDITEDIT: Oh, one thing that might raise your eyebrows. Asexuals can actually have sex. Might seem contradictory, but the definition of the label is at the heart of the matter - if they lack a sex drive, they are asexual. If they want to express their love to their partner and they see sex as the best way, and they're doing it solely for the intimacy, that's still asexual.

Asexuality has to do solely with not having a sex drive, they are not impaired in their relationships with others in any way, though there can be difficulties. Please read more in the FAQ at least on www.asexuality.org for more on my standing on these issues.

genuinegirly

i have a dear female friend who is asexual. she just doesn't care about sex. she also isn't interested in any sort of a relationship that would require sexual intimacy. she has many close friends that she loves dearly, has deep conversations with, and cares about the well-being of these friends as though they were all lovers. but none are. she has been called a lesbian because the majority of these friends are female and no one external to these friendships realize that there is no sex involved.

as for the evolutionarily fit aspect: she is raising her parents' 2 younger kids (6 and 8) since her dad passed away last year and her mother went insane. i'd say that she's doing her duty passing along what she can.

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