Locobot

This morning Bush's Labor Dept. passed new regulations governing overtime pay. Here is the article, my are comments below: linky
Here is a link from an "AP Labor Writer" with even less information on the new legislation.

We saw last week that Bush's tax policies have shifted the tax burden to the middle class, now it seems Bush is interested in juggling even more election-year dynamite. It will be interesting to see which news sources swallow the Bush PR team's Orwellian spin that this will increase the number of people earning overtime, or simply that this is a positive move for business/the economy/etc. If anyone wants to explain how eliminating large swaths of overtime-eligible jobs will increase overtime pay I'm all ears.

Yeah, until the contract expires in a few years after which the union will no longer have strong legal grounding to insist this be a part of future contracts.

The new laws make all overtime pay vulnerable to a simple change in job titles. E.g. secretaries are now "Administrative Assistants," sorry no overtime for you. We've seen this before with fast food and box store (Walmart) employees becoming "managers" at 50+ hours per week (w/no O.T.). Can anyone explain why any of the jobs listed above should not be eligible for overtime? Chefs? Athletic trainers? Dental assistants? Don't be naieve and think that a corporation like McDonalds is above making every burger slinger a "chef" and therefore ineligible for overtime.

Is this just hubris on the Bush administration's part ("I can gut any law benefiting workers and no one will care!") or are they desperate for business community support? Before we launch in to a withering philosophical treatise on the history of overtime (although I wouldn't really mind that either roachboy ) I'd like to hear people's real life experiences with overtime, managers and employees alike, related to this new legislation.

98MustGT

Here where I work, there are 10 people in our department. We all want to work 4 days a week with 10 hour days, however we can't cause here in Calif they would have to pay us overtime for those 2 hours and the boss won't let us do that.

Another instance of the gov't getting in the way.

moonstrucksoul

I suppose these would still be considered middle class?

I have been a union member for 6 years, and every contract, our benefits and a pay increases keep going down, except for the contract we got when Clinton was in office, but at that time, there was still a boom in the economy.
this last one one wee had to settle for status-quo, no increase, just to keep our healthcare from going up even more.

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Locobot

So you feel your entitlement to a 3 day weekend should supercede the right for workers in your state to earn extra pay for working longer than eight hours per day, interesting.

FoolThemAll

I think it does.

I also don't think there's a 'right' involved here.

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Locobot

And you would be wrong in thinking that. We're talking about a law in California that makes it a right for workers to collect overtime for working more than 8 hours per day. Not every state has that law.

Of course 98mustGT could just ask to be made an "administrator" or "manager" and thereby be exempt from overtime pay. Any intelligent employer however would just fire part of the staff and start asking employees to work extra hours. Pretty soon something designed to give employees three day weekends will have them remembering the glory days of two day weekends...

Delvid

Bush's plan for America - create system like India. Extremely small % of population controls almost all the $. We got to get rid of these assclowns.

98MustGT

Companies and employees should have that as an option. Nowdays there are many single parents raising kids that may want to work 9 hours on one day and 7 on the other so they can go to little Jonnys soccer game every Tue and Thur. but no big gov't comes in and decides for you hence little Jonny has no one to watch his soccer game. If you want a company that always pays overtime for 8 hours work then apply at those companies. If you need more flexability, work for a company that does not. Its called choice.

Locobot

Yeah I'm pretty sure that specific legislation was titled "Anti-Little Jonny soccer spectation Bill" [H.R. 12666]. And you guys accuse liberals of having "bleeding hearts" please.

What's keeping you from quitting your job and moving to another state? You have choice too. You may not realize it but you're actually arguing for MORE worker's rights by saying you should be allowed to structure your work schedule as you please. As it turns out the only way to make this possible would be MORE government regulation, something you don't seem to be too fond of. Businesses will always do the bare minimum required by law, it's simply good business. Would you rather place your trust in your government or a corporation? Remember now that you live in a democracy, remember also who constitutes the government in a democracy.

98MustGT

[QUOTE=Locobot]Yeah I'm pretty sure that specific legislation was titled "Anti-Little Jonny soccer spectation Bill" [H.R. 12666]. And you guys accuse liberals of having "bleeding hearts" please.
QUOTE]

I have never heard of that bill?

Good point!

hannukah harry

just my opinion, but i think the law should state that a worker can exempt themselves from the 8-hour overtime law so that way employers willing to give flex time can do so. it just seems to me that to force more than 8 hours should require overtime, but there's no reason an employee shouldn't be allowed to waive that protection.


edit: changed "work" to "worker"... my bad.

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Journeyman

There is when waiving that protection becomes a requisite for getting hired in the first place.

CoachAlan

Here in Nevada there is a special provision the in overtime law that allows people to work four tens without being paid overtime. Also in Nevada, if you make more than 1.5x minimum wage or get paid on a piecework basis, your employer isn't forced to pay you overtime no matter how many hours you work.

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FoolThemAll

And that should be an option for companies.

Locobot: I meant that while such a right does indeed exist on paper, I don't consider it to be a rational concept and I don't believe it to be a right that exists outside of its legislation. As opposed to, say, the right to property or the right to life.

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Boo

I only wish that I could work four 10 hour shifts and every other or third saturday.

Here in AK, anything over 40 hours is overtime.

I am a spelling/typing nightmare tonight!

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Locobot

So has anyone earned overtime and felt like they deserved it?

Paq

me...ever done construction? contracting? tech support? general labor?? Anything like that...after a while, you just get tired...

ever work retail (noncommission) during a holiday season? 50-60 hrs is not uncommon and yes, those extra hours deserve higher pay. It's cheaper on the company than hiring someone for just that season, but that's what they would have to do if they didnt' pay overtime.

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CoachAlan

Companies gain in a number of ways by paying overtime instead of hiring more people. Probably the two biggest plusses are that they don't have to pay to train new people, and they only have to pay benefits to one person.

Consider, no matter how much overtime you work, your healthcare costs the company the exact same. That reason alone is enough to turn bosses into slave drivers. On the surface it seems like, "How can they afford to pay us all this overtime?" But in reality, they wouldn't do it if it weren't cost-effective.

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phyzix525

for alot of places it is not cost effective though, where you don't get any health care and training is easy as sitting at the register long enough to get the hang of it. you'll find that overtime is hated in places like restaurants where you are only getting 2 something an hour in the first place. My wife has worked many nights over 8 hours, but only gets overtime if she is over the 40 hrs in a week. I worked in a bus plant that did the 10 hr day 4 days a week thing and it was nice. I don't think that you should get overtime in a single day untill you pass ten hours, then single day overtime could be considered, that gives the flexability and if you are full time you can acumulate a lot of overtime if you are working more then four days a week. thats the way it is in OK. seems to work out well.

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smooth

That does sound like an interesting plan.

At some small places I've worked, we weren't real strict with the timecards. If we really wanted to have flex time, we would just write the timecard to reflect the legal restrictions.

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tecoyah

And thus we have the Salaried Managers, I average 70 hrs/wk right now (new store opening) and have no complaints....But I am more than happy to give the OT to my core people, as they work extremely well.

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kutulu

I pretty much agree with phyzix on the single day overtime stuff. Single day OT shouldn't stand in the way of someone wanting to work 4 10hr days.