Shauk

not directly inclined to politics in the fashion of party vs party or candidate vs candidate.

but man, America has become afraid of it's own shadow.

http://www.king5.com/video/featured-...ml?nvid=206446

when is this stupidity and irrational fear of 5 year olds going to stop? this sits right up there with the couple who took photographs in a MALL and got banned from the place by security for being a security threat.....

highthief

Hardly the first instance of it - I've heard of several other children being unable to board a flight because their name was on a "no fly list".

I think it is frightening to think that people charged with "protecting" us are that stupid.

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Tophat665

Not to mention leading us.

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Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns.
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Plan9

Actually, this is retarded:

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Fotzlid

to be fair, the people protecting us arent that stupid. the rules they have to follow are. as are the dolts that dream them up in the first place.

actually, that one makes a bit of sense. where are most of the car bombs in the middle east? markets, where all the civilians are. in this country, they are all in the mall.

waaaaaay back in the day when i was a professional mall employee, the malls wouldn't let people take pics for fear of competitors copying the store fronts or mall design. granted, that was back before everyone had digital cameras. or cellphones for that matter...

reconmike

I think it stops when there aren't any nutjobs left that would stuff some c-4 up a 5 yr olds ass, or try and rig a teddy bear to go boom, or run into an open air market blowing themselves up and killing hundred of civilians.

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Where is Darwin when ya need him?

Willravel

It'll start when that will have ever happened in the history of man. Until the mad nightmares of those who fear American terrorism daily come true, this story will remain an example of what happens when people allow fear to override reason.

highthief

Yeah, that happens a lot in the US.

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

reconmike

Doesn't happen very often at all, so if checking out a 5 year old whose name might be the same as someone who is wanted by the feds keeps it from happening, good job feds.

I was once pulled out of a customs line because someone had the same name as me and was wanted on a capital murder warrant, big deal mistaken identity happens.

Should the child's age have anything to do with it? Absolutely not, maybe the kids name was OBL jr.

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Where is Darwin when ya need him?

Willravel

Translation: "Something has never happened before, therefore we should especially look out for it because it's likely to happen should we do nothing."

...um, no.

reconmike

Your right, kill em all let allah sort em out.

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Where is Darwin when ya need him?

Willravel

Killing people is wrong, and there's no such thing as Allah. I'm not sure what your point is.

reconmike

Um yes, flying planes into buildings sound familiar? never happened before let's wait for something to happen before we protect ourselves.

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Where is Darwin when ya need him?

Willravel

We knew about it beforehand. We'd even run drills. We had intel that they were going to do it. It wasn't a surprise.

reconmike

Your right Will, at 24 you have the answers you win, WILL VICTOR OF TFP OOHRAHHH!!!!

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Where is Darwin when ya need him?

Willravel

I'm not sure what my age has to do with the subject.

Bill O'Rights

Settle...the fuck...down. I weary of all this sniping.

And, big deal. Security detains a kid, for a few minutes, to positively confirm what everyone already suspects. He is not the droid they are looking for. I doubt that he was jacked up, carted off to Gitmo and waterboarded.

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MSD

This is blatant trolling. Stop it.

Tophat665

... or sent to the spice mines of Kessel and smashed into who knows what!

At this point, we have in one corner the folks who believe that the mistake is symptomatic of a paranoid government out of control, and in the other corner the folks who believe that it is an unfortunate and not particularly troubling side effect of the necessary and proper measures taken to keep the country safe.

There's no common ground to be found there, and since we can't fight here, let's take it outside. Or we could just agree that this is one of those things that we are going to disagree and move on.

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Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

Shauk

wtf is waterboarded? I see this term online a bit lately, where did it originate?

anyways um, reconmike, the age should matter. 5 year olds aren't even old enough to have a criminal history, it's simple common sense.

Ustwo

Its a special health treatment for terrorist suspects.

Stupid yes, did it stop him from flying? No. Was it following procedure? I'm going to guess yes.

Big deal? Not really. Part of the reason we are not allowed to use common sense in these things is that common sense tells us to do things like racial profile and thats just verboten.

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Willravel

Waterboarding is a form of torture that consists of immobilizing a person on his or her back, with the head inclined downward, and pouring water over the face and into the breathing passages. Through forced suffocation and inhalation of water, the subject experiences the process of drowning in a controlled environment and is made to believe that death is imminent. In contrast to merely submerging the head face-forward, waterboarding almost immediately elicits the gag reflex. Although waterboarding can be performed in ways that leave no lasting physical damage, it carries the risks of extreme pain, damage to the lungs, brain damage caused by oxygen deprivation, injuries (including broken bones) due to struggling against restraints, and even death. The psychological effects on victims of waterboarding can last for years after the procedure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

pan6467

To hold a 5 yr old is a bit much, when you see that the person holding the name is that young, I don't think you need to check things any further.

Now, if I'm at an airport and they see my name and hold me.... I don't care, that's a risk I know is possible these days, I have nothing to hide and truly I don't care, except, pay for my ticket if you force me to miss my plane.

I find this very one sided, self righteous, elitist and pompous. This is also very demeaning to anyone on here that believes in Islam as a religion. You do have proof Allah doesn't exist right?

Will doesn't believe in Allah and killing is wrong so stop all the violence and preaching of 72 virgins.

Here's some real world news Will, there are millions that believe in Allah and many of them (as proven throughout history) will kill in his name, some may even use terrorism and suicide bombers. Some are very good at recruiting and teaching others to kill. Funny, but these people don't seem to buy into Will's view of the world... they think violence to get what they want is fine, in some cases divine (Jihad... holy war.. you know).

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Willravel

It's a good thing I wasn't serious when I wrote this. Recon brought up points that made no sense and that were meant to derail the conversation, so I shut them down by responding with something that made even less sense in the context of the thread.

And he didn't respond to it, so I consider it a success.

pan6467

So you gave yourself the power to "shut down" someone's comments, instead of just ignoring the comments? I really didn't see ReconMike saying much worthy of being "shut down" before this post of yours.

I don't know Will, the post as I read it sounds pretty serious.

I'm not trying to be personal here but it seems that you were trying to troll and light some form of derailing war yourself.

But what do I know?

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Willravel

I didn't give myself any power. I took a shot that an explosion would put out the fire and it worked. If someone wants to believe in Allah, that's great. I hope it makes them happy.

To be fair, you jumped on me with all your weight without asking me what I meant. "one sided, self righteous, elitist and pompous" were where you went first, without thinking "Will wouldn't write this seriously, I should ask him about that..." This suggests that you have a very low opinion of me, which is really disappointing. I know we don't always agree, but I know you to be mostly very level headed, understanding and intelligent. Apparently that sentiment isn't something we share? Or you were just mad and needed to go on a diatribe. I dunno. I'm kinda hoping it's the latter.

The_Jazz

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Shauk

I am the self appointed creator of DRAMA

someone gimmie a merit badge... now.. host haste, get on it bishes!

Willravel

Getting back on topic, I can understand a parent of a 5 year old being on a watch list, or someone older involved in the boy's life, but the 5 year old himself? What 5 year old is not only able to develop malcontent of the government but plans and executes a terrorist attack? None. This is an example of paranoia.

Ustwo

Replace paranoia with procedure and you nailed it.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Willravel

Who writes a procedure that includes suspected terrorists that were too young to remember Finding Nemo? Who learned to walk within the past 2 years? Who can't pronounce "Jihad", let alone understand what it means? Who's main concern is what kind of Lunchable they'll use in school? In kindergarden, btw. Not even grade-school.

Would you stop a 5 year old because you honestly suspect he or she is a terrorist?

joshbaumgartner

Procedure is guise for paranoia in this case. Paranoid administrators are afraid to allow reason into the process, and those who are hired to implement the procedure are given no room for discretion, good judgment, or common sense. Thus when a rule is stupid or paranoid, the victim cannot fight it and the one who has to impose it on the victim has no discretion to do anything either.

So yes, it is paranoia--paranoia implemented in and enabled by procedure.

Shauk

still waiting on my badge.

Tophat665

Pan, with all respect, that right there is where cultural relativism breaks down. Killing in the name of self preservation or defense of your family is one thing. That presupposes a clear and present threat thereunto. Killing any other way is wrong. Killing in the name of a God is both wrong and absurd. (I'm not saying he doesn't exist, mind you, just that you can never know.)

Islam is not, by and large, like that - oh, jihad's there in the book all right, but it's not widely observed, or more observed as a spiritual struggle for self betterment. When someone starts talking it up literally, they start being evil - indeed a clear and present danger.

I'd like to give you Drama, but this is the one you actually completed the requirements for.

__________________
Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

pig

ummm....the paranoia will stop when people embrace the reality that we could die at any moment, and are comfortable taking that roll of the dice.

in this case, i don't see much of a way around this. a low-cost measure was put in place. people with a certain name can't board an airplane. the people screening for these names aren't allowed to have discretion when it comes to application of the policy. it sucks donkey balls, but these people aren't paid to think. they're paid to pay attention to a set of procedures and follow them. if they deviate, they lose their jobs. if they deviate, and something awful happens, they go to jail. this is standard government worker mentality, and it's put in place for a reason. you may not like what it culminates into, but the root policy is one of heuristics and guidelines, so that mistakes don't happen, as much as can be controlled. these guys are going to err on the side of caution, and i promise you they'll stomach another 100 stories of being over-cautious instead of 1 story of not being cautious enough.

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pan6467

No that was just a reply to Will's post.

I am well aware that probably 90-95% (if not more) of the Muslims are a peaceful bunch. It's the extremists which will kill in the name of their God.

Killing for any reason other than in defense is wrong, I wholeheartedly agree, however, there are many on this planet that believe killing isn't that wrong and killing in the name of their God is ok.

I find it a pathetic that we can let in Illegals (any of them could be terrorists), we complain about laws set up to protect us as best as possible from ways we know they can attack, we have kids killing people in school because they were able to get dad's gun and wanted to die in infamy (an act of terrorism)...... yet we'll bitch about smoking and make it illegal everywhere.

"Gee sorry to hear that bomb blew away half the city, we'll rebuild and it'll be ok."

"Golly, that 10 year old sure was prepared for the rampage in the school, but we can't do anything about gun control... the NRA will come down on us."

"Gee, beautiful day here at the park, sun in my face, getting ready to watch the Indi....." "Hey Buddy, you need to leave and here's your ticket for smoking." "Put that Goddamned thing out, I can't breathe."

Truly what the fuck is wrong with our nation when we can come up with excuses to make sure the terrorists can have easy work.... yet we take smoking rights away, even tho the smokers pay a lot in taxes...try living without those taxes.

//end threadjack.... sorry tired and cranky... think I'll go have a ciggy and go to bed.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Willravel

I couldn't agree more, though I'd venture a guess that it's probably more like 98% or more.

Plan9

Oooh... 90%? 9 out of 10 good. That'd be 1 in 10 bad, right?

With that ratio alone... we'd have a WHOLE lot of pissed off jihadin' types in the US.

How many Muslims are on the planet, again?

I figure even 98% is a little off.

...

"And the white man? He feared everything."

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."