trib767

I feel compelled to write and ask for views on my partner's behaviour towards her 10 year old son. I don't have kids of my own so I'm hitting the ground running and may be simply missing the norm.

Anyway, he's a nice lad, well adjusted and well behaved. However at bed time he is unable to go to bed unless his mother goes with him. He is also allowed to stay up late (11-midnight is typical).

I feel a relationship needs 'adult time' too and I feel 9pm is reasonably late enough for a 10 year old. When I insist on this his mother takes him to bed and stays there for hours, sometimes not returning until after I have retired and maybe not until the next morning.

I think a 10 year old should be able to go to bed alone, and should have to. If he is "scared" he will just have to deal with it - like I did when that age. I feel the current situation is not helping him, and that mummy sleeping with child is not right at that age.

He changes school next year, and if it gets out when he's at high school I think his credibility with peers will be dashed for good. I may sound harsh but I think for his own good the bedtime thing needs sorting.

It's becoming a strain on my relationship with his mother - we get no time on our own and I don't agree with how she is behaiving in this regard. It isn't a cover on her part for problems between us because there aren't any. Apart from this issue it's a near-damn perfect relationship. I fear if this doesn't fix it'll all break down.

Interested in your views...

CrAzEd

I completely agree with you. I only slept with my parents until I was old enough for a crib. I never felt the need or want to, so I didn't. Have you tried sitting down and really telling her how you feel? Your partner should be willing to listen if she really loves you like that. I also agree that if it got out at school he would be ruined.

ShaniFaye

While I have never agreed with kids sleeping with their parents (I think its totally ridiculous) I do not agree that the child should go to bed on their own. I dont know if Im misunderstanding, so if I am feel free to correct me, but I could never let my daughter go to bed without tucking her in and spending a few minutes of special "mommy daughter" time before she goes to sleep. I do agree though that 11 o'clock is too late for a ten year old to be staying up.

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maleficent

Sounds like the momma doesn't want to let go of her baby... At 10, the child is old enough to be taken to his room, kissed good night and left alone, if the kid wants to read for a while that's fine) but to have mom sit in there while he falls asleep, or spend the entire night in there-- mom's got some issues she needs to work on.

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Ella

My thoughts exactly, Mal. Sometimes I lie with my 5 year old for a while, but no longer than 5-10 mins. I'd be raising this as an issue that is interfering with your relationship, if I were you. I mean....I love my kids, but I also love the "me" time I have after they go to bed!

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trib767

I agree. Taking the kids to bed and spending a little time (30 mins max) with them is perfectly ok and I would also do this myself. As you say that parent-child time is also valuable. But staying till they are asleep, or all night in case they wake up, is off the wall.

sexymama

Sounds like son is in control when in comes to bedtime and not mom. This gives him an upper hand in your relationship.

Mom can't make son sleep; but she can inforce a bed-time. Walking him to bed and kissing him goodnight is a good bonding ritual. Beyond that, it just feels weird. If son can't or doesn't want to sleep, let him read (no T.V.!) but mom shouldn't be staying with him.

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Demeter

Man this just goes to show that I'm an old-school mom whose kids are in bed by 9. And my sons 13.

Its gonna be hard for Mom to break her son/herself of this habit. I imagine it was just the two of them for sometime before you came along, and they have been living in their own little world. (I understand this, I was a single mom too).

Some Moms (most) get defensive when advice on their parenting is given. I would suggest you ask if you could tuck the son in. Talk to him a bit about his day, interests, whatever, then let him read for a while before lights out...so she can have a break, and then you grownups can have some time together. Hopefully this could pave the way for a more appropriate routine.

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ngdawg

My kids are 13 and they are told to get to bed at 9:30. They still like to be tucked-a hug and kiss goodnight-which is fine by me.
If you have expressed your concern and no change has been made, you need to reevaluate your position in that household. You're being shut out.
And you are right, except in extreme cases of illness, mommy shouldn't be staying with a child of that age. Perhaps you could enlist the help of some of her friends-have them bring up the issue for discussion with her.

robot_parade

FWIW, here's the way we do bedtime...

I think they key is to have a routine. Kids (and adults!) are often much more comfortable with a routine. Not a to-the-minute schedule, but things generally happen in the same order at about the same time.

CR usually finishes up his homework after supper, so then it's:

1) Make sure room is clean.
2) Shower
3) Pajama's
4) *if* the above is done before 8:15(ish), he gets a story
5) In bed (by 8:30ish)
6) Reading in bed for 15 minutes/or until 8:45
7) Lights out at 8:45(ish)
8) Song

Yes, we sing to all of the kids - it relaxes them, gets them ready for bed, makes them feel loved, etc. We also give them a chance to talk for a few minutes after song, though they tend to like to try to drag that part out. Each child usually fixates on a song for awhile - right now CR likes 'beautiful morning' from Oklahoma.

With this routine all of the kids do *fairly* well at bedtime. Sometimes they will pop up 3 or 4 times for drinks of water, 'Daddy, I have a question...', etc. But usually they are pretty good about it. Our 4 year old also sometimes gets up in the night and climbs into bed with us. We put him back into his own bed if we wake up enough to, but generally don't worry about it too much.

Another thing that might help is changing his sleeping arrangements. Our 9yr old has outgrown the 'cuddling' thing, but he also sleeps in a loft bed, so it's physically impossible for us to baby him like that.

You're in a bit of a tough situation though, since you aren't the kids dad - it sounds like from your message that you aren't really in a parent kind of relationship with the kid, so I think you need to respect his mom's 'parent' status. Not to say you should give in, just disagree...respectfully. :-)

Good luck!

clavus

My nearly-two-year-old goes to bed after I change him and read him a story. WTF is going on with a 10 year old and his mother who can't do this?

"abuse" is too strong a word, but its close.

Sleep and poop, man. Get them sleeping and pooping on their own and everything else falls into place.

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analog

Honestly- cut the cord. Before it gets too bad to fix.

liquidlight

I'd have to go with the general consensus, aside from falling asleep together incidentally (watching TV, naps) I haven't shared a bed with my toddlers since they were 18 months old, and weaning them of the habit was terrible, hours of crying almost every night for nearly a month, maybe it was a little harsh but I've never believed in coddling my children, I love them and want them to know the truth and be prepared for when things aren't perfect.

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canuckguy

One of my wifes friends has a 2yr old, a 5yr old and a 10yr old.....and they all sleep in the same together with the parents.....I can't even make eye contact with my wifes friends out disgust. And there expecting there 4 child in 5 months. no idea how she managed to get pregs with the bed so full.

vanblah

I've tried to refrain from posting in this thread because I have some very strong opinions when it comes to the 20th century Western practice of child-rearing. I have a three-year-old daughter and so far I think we've done a damn good job of raising her. She's energetic without being obnoxious; she's articulate (bilingual as well; Spanish/English); enjoys singing and making music; physically healthy. She potty-trained herself in one day (it is, after all, THE CHILDS goal not the parents).

Sure she throws fits every once in a while as she tries to establish her independence. We simply allow her to get past the emotions and then try to talk about it. Sometimes she goes to time out if she gets really bad.

She still sleeps in our bed ... although lately she has really expressed an interest in her own "big girl room". I am feverishly remodeling a room for her at this time. I hope to be finished in the next couple of weeks. Every day she sees a new change and it makes it more exciting for her.

I attribute her successes to our refusal to follow the "clinical" methods of child rearing.

The family bed is nothing new. In fact, cribs haven't really been around much more than a century or so. Entire families slept in the same bed ... and the parents still had more children. Separate beds for children were really something only the wealthy elite could afford and we all know how well-adjusted THEY seem to be.

The fact is, none of us know why the mom still sleeps in the same bed as her son. There are any number of reasons that this kid and his mother need to sleep in the same bed. Emotional distress being the biggest culprit. For some reason the child's father is not there ... was there a divorce? Did the father die? How is the kid handling that?

My advice? Talk to the mother about it and then talk to the kid. Children can be amazingly astute. I agree that a 10 year old kid, especially a boy, should actually WANT to sleep by himself. And that's the tactic you should take. Convince him that he wants to sleep alone. And for god's sake, DON'T TEASE HIM ABOUT IT. You'll only make it worse.

It's way too easy to jump to conclusions ... and everyone with kids thinks their method of child-rearing is the best. I'm just as guilty as anyone else.

Thank you for indulging my little rant.

I leave you with this link:

http://www.breastfeeding.com/reading...amily_bed.html

(edited for a little clarity).

clavus

While I disagree with your post, I'm glad that someone on the other side of the argument put forth a well written reply. TFP rocks!

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vanblah

Out of curiosity, what part did you disagree with?

raeanna74

I've slept with my daughter. I snuggle her to sleep often. When she was born I breastfed and co-slept with her. It was easier on me. Now she and I read stories. I actually started out with that and then convinced her to lie there looking at books after ONE story and I would come back in a few minutes to check on her. Which I did. It helped her still feel like I was there since she was so used to it. At this point I often lie down and read to her and half the time I fall asleep myself even in the middle of the book. Hubby comes to wake me though and I leave her to sleep on her own. She's to the point though (she's 4 1/2) that I can EASILY get her through her evening abolutions and to bed by around 8:30 and leaving her to fall asleep on her own rarely results in any argument.

Of course this mother enjoys the snuggling and why wouldn't any parent but there's a point at which you much take into consideration other aspects of the child's development and your own personal physical and emotional health as a parent.

I am QUITE suprised that this 10 yr old boy has no desire to go to sleep on his own. Unless he feels pressure by his mother and is afraid of hurting her feelings. No matter what she needs to allow him to learn some independence at this age before he starts PUSHING for it and alienates himself from her.

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raveneye

I have no problem with the family bed for smaller children. I agree that this was probably the natural situation in our species for 99% of its existence, and still is for probably 80% of the current population.

But I think it's good to start encouraging them to sleep in their own bed by about age 3. Somewhere between 3 and 5 is a good time to make the transition.

There's a lot of cultural variation. In Germany the family bed is unheard of. Parents commonly plant their kids in their room at 8PM and they're not allowed to come out until morning, period. If a kid isn't completely potty trained by age 1 then you're perceived as lax or stupid parents (we were by some of our German friends).

Our next door neighbors slept with their daughter (only child) until she was past adolescence, I think she was around 14 when she finally started sleeping alone.

Definitely a 10 year old needs to be sleeping on his own. If he can't then he needs to be getting professional help for whatever problem he's having.

la petite moi

I have to agree with the child going to bed too late. Up until I was around 15-16 years old, I had to be in bed by 9:30 pm. Rules should be enforced, and the mom should be talked to if she doesn't see the problem in having him go to bed so late.

trib767

Thank you all for these comments, this is really valuable stuff. I'm seeing them next weekend and I'm going to see if I can communicate any of these points. I have a week to work out how I'm going to do this....

clavus

I think the "family bed" is unhealthy for kids, and displays a weakness of character in parents and is damaging to a marriage.

I hear parents put forth two arguments in favor of it.

1) "I do it, and it works for our kid".
Well, I'm glad it has worked for you so far. I hope it continues to work. I've seen a number of kids who are fucked up, and their parents say they are just fine. I've talked to a number of husbands who HATE having their kids in bed with them, but don't talk about it with their wives.

2) "Throughout most of history, people have slept in the family bed."
This a classic fallacy. I think its called "Appeal to History." Anytime one employs this argument, they immediately lose some credibility. Just because something has been done in the past doesn't make it the best way to do something. For most of human history, we didn't use immunizations (or antibiotics, for that matter).

That said, you made an excellent point when you stated - "The fact is, none of us know why the mom still sleeps in the same bed as her son." Further investigation is needed, and the true reason may never be revealed.

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raveneye

Here's a citation of the most recently published large study on the psychological effects of bed-sharing with children:

This is a large, careful, long term study. It concludes that fears about the psychological effects of bed sharing during early childhood on children are unfounded, while demonstrating that there are small benefits on cognitive function measured at age 6.

So I don't think there's any problem for small children (to age 3-5). The only concern there really is the privacy of the parents.

Cosleeping with older children though is so rare that there don't seem to be any studies of its effects.

Demeter

We all hear that sharing a bed with kids isn't the right thing to do, and of course there are studies that prove otherwise.
Familes in earlier times often shared beds/rooms with each other merely due to lack of space. My mom grew up in a log home, where 2 parents & 5 kids shared 3 beds in 1 room. In developing countries people live in small 1 or 2 room homes. They must share sleeping space as well. I'm sure cavemen didn't have separate caves for parents/kids to sleep. This was just how life is. Suddenly its "wrong" and damaging for kids?
Now, the flip side. I never slept in my parents bed. None of us ever did. It wasn't even questioned. Both my parents had to rise early for work & sleep was sacred. I had this figured when I was 5 or 6 at the oldest. We were never turned away, we just never conceived of asking.
I never let my kids sleep with me either. Even if the kids were ill, I would camp out with them in the living room for the night. I never had any problems with them crawling in my bed, ever.
I guess each family has to go with what works for them.

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