liquidlight

I'm having mixed feelings now after reading a particular thread:

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=86301

It almost seems like rather than discussing the human depravity demonstrated by this article by these peoples actions we'd rather focus on the term "white trash" which was I'm assuming used to title it at one point.

Having in my best and because of my upbringing I've been called "white trash" on more than a few occassions, and to be honest my family earned the moniker, however to this day I still don't find it offensive, just embarrassing. For it to be offensive to me I'd have to apply an association to the words that I just don't make, after all they are only words, but I can be sympathetic to how they could offend some people.

What I'd really like to discuss is what is it about these particular words that we find offensive? Have you had past experience that associates with thier usage and that's what bothers you? Is it societal? Or is it simply that we've all been told what they're supposed to mean and that bothers us?

I'm not trying to be inflammatory so please don't take this the wrong way, but when looking at the actual definitions to a lot of the words that bother us they don't coincide with the impact and association that they now receive, I'm not going to cite anything specific since I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about and can come up with your own examples without me pushing that line.

The last thing that I wonder is why the words continue to be offensive even when used in a context where they are wholly accurate and oft times the most descriptive available? There is something to be said for eloquence, but simplicity and directness have their place as well. As was once said when asked the signfigance of an item, "sometimes a cake is just a cake."

I'd love an open-minded and frank discussion and/or debate on this issue, if this is something that might upset you please disregard the thread entirely as my intention is not to be offensive myself.

__________________
Halfway to hell and picking up speed.

degrawj

i don't mean this to be a linkfest (although i do think it's neat that TFP is such a deep community that links to old discussions can provide insight into new discussions), but i think you could probably find some answers to some of these questions in this thread: http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=80862

i have yet to figure out some of these answers myself. in general, i'm not offended by bad words. but every now and then i will hear someone say something that will make me wince, and it's usually because of the context. for example, if i'm hanging out with my cousin, and he says "jesus fucking christ..." about something, i don't really care, or notice it. yet for me, that's kind of an "off limits" curse phrase because of my particular religious beliefs, and when i've heard other people say that phrase, it usually bothers me.

this is quite an interesting topic, and i think i need to mull over it a little more.

MSD

Words offend us because we let them. I don't let words offend me, although I will sometimes react negatively to the emotions and sentiment behind them. I don't use certain words that are likely to offend others because I know that not everybody shares my view on teh subject.

zen_tom

It isn't the words themselves that offend us - it's the suggestion of ignorance and lazy thinking that causes offense.

I was in a bar with two good friends the other night who, for reasons best known to themselves decided to start a tirade against immigrants.

Now there are perfectly respectable reasons and arguments in favour of limiting immigration (which I may not necessarily agree or disagree with, but will accept that they might be respectable points of view) but as soon as a derrogatory racist word is thrown into the mix, it evaporates all of someone's finely crafted argument and reveals it for plain old ignorance and mean spirit (to put it nicely)

I try to give people the benefit of the doubt - it's harder to live that way, but ultimately more rewarding - However, it is upsetting when people display their mean-mindedness, mindless hatred and sloppy thinking in this manner.

Now how about the words? Well you know, it doesn't matter what the actual words are at all. Offensive words evolve and change all the time, and will continue to do so. I think even in 50 years we will see a softening of some of the terms we might think are outrageous today, only to be replaced by newer unpleasantries.

No, it's not the words, it's the sentiments behind them, and what they reveal about our real thoughts on these kinds of issues.

StanT

They are just words. They only have the impact that you give them. I think we have become too politically correct as a society. It's nearly impossible to be humorous or controversial without offending someone. Get over it.

frogza

I don't think that it is the words themselves. I think we are offended by the fact that when a person says such things, they are meaning to hurt us. We want to be accepted and liked by others, whether we admit it or not we are social animals. When someone intentionally is trying to hurt us or put us outside the acceptable group, then we are hurt by their hatred or indifference towards us. The words are just the embodiment of their attitude toward us.

Cynthetiq

i dunno... i just remember to chant... "sticks and stones..." and that pretty much defuses the words.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

jonjon42

we take offense (at least I do) more from the feelings revealed by the words. I usually don't let words bother me much.

__________________
A damn dirty hippie without the dirty part....

flstf

It is an interesting question. I guess it has to do with the way we were raised and what we are taught is acceptable and unacceptable. Why does the word fuck bother us but intercourse doesn't? The word nigger is considered so upsetting that most newspapers won't print it even when quoting someone else.

I guess we will continue to be offended by some words as long as we are taught by our parents and society to be. Amazing the amount of power we give to putting a few letters together in a certain order.

Zeraph

Ultimately, and unfortunately, we care about what people think about us, even strangers.

d*d

It's word association, communication is a slippery thing words are the basic framework but the meanings and values we attach to them are all subjective to the context we learnt them in and the context in which we see(hear) them used. Words themselves are harmless litle collections of letters but they carry a weight of meaning - explicit and implied. Confusion can happen when people have different sets of values attached to a word (ignorance and culture difference attribute to this ). Which words can earn the honorary title of insulting and which don't is dictated by society and is constantly changing

WillyPete

Yes, I'd agree that it's the ideas themselves that are associated with the words or word combinations that cause offense.

The swastika has been around for millenia, both left and right handed and has symbolised many things, yet the atrocites of the 2nd world war will forever imbue it with a link to a madman and genocide.

d*d

The swastika is a symbol as opposed to a word but it's pretty much the same deal

lordkos

I dont think its the word itself thats offending to people, its the meaning behind it.
If you didnt really know the meaning of that word and some one called you it you wouldnt get offended.
See what im saying?

tspikes51

People are always looking for something to whine about, that's why they invented political correctness and why people take offense to stupid shit.

So why is it that black people can call each other "niggers" but if I so much as mention the word the world pulls out the cat o' nine tails???

__________________
"I'm telling you, we need to get rid of a few people or a million."
-Maddox

d*d

I can make fun of my mother, you can't.
You must be able to see the subtle difference between a black person using the word nigger and a white person using it.

Wingnut

I beleive words or symbols offend us because we make ourselves vulnerable to them. There might be a lot of valid reasons why we make ourselves vulnerable to words or symbols. I think the root cause of the vulnerability is that a lot of us are looking to be accepted by other people. Offensive words or symbols are definetly not accepting of us or our ideas. This means that we are placing our power in other people's hands, now they have the power to control our emotions and upset us by using offensive words or symbols.

Instead of going that route we should rather accept ourselves and stop looking for validation and acceptance from others. If we accept ouselves as we are, other will also except us much easier. If they don't, who cares, we already accepted ouselves and we don't need their validation. Thus word and symbols won't offend us and we won't lose our power to them.

__________________
You are only limited by your imagination

JustJess

I have to agree that words only have the power behind them that you allow them to. At the same time, I think that part of the reason they're so offensive is because we know the intention behind it, and people do have some pride - no one likes to be limited and defined by such hateful thinking. Whether we are vulnerable to it is another issue; just that someone has the rudeness to define us that way is offensive.
On the flip side, yes, I definitely believe that PC terms are taking over, and I don't like it. I don't have a problem with promoting self-respect and respect for others, but neither do I think we have to tiptoe around everyone's *possible* feelings.

On a side note... I think a lot of the cries of outrage stems from wanting attention than actual offense. I.e. the person who cries foul about a supposed discrimination or something is probably looking for attention, either to themselves or the issue they're complaining about. Controversy stirs up a lot of attention quickly - free publicity for whatever cause they have, or maybe it's just their 15 minutes, I don't know... but I haven't heard of many cases where it seems like a legitimate complaint.

__________________
My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

cellophanedeity

I don't necissarily believe that it's the words themselves that are what cause the offence, but instead the context that they are used in. Like how showing a friend your middle finger when they playfully tease you to jokingly say "Oh, screw off!" is different than when you give the finger to a bad driver because they actully pissed you off.

There is a difference between reclaimed language, and words that are used to hurt. My close friends and I calling me queer doesn't bother me, but if I were to kiss a lady friend on the street, and have "Queer!" shouted at me I'd be offended. The difference here, is that even if the person shouting "Queer" at me isn't homophobic, the fear of this person hating me for who I am on the surface is still a scary idea.

My friends and I can call eachother queers if we wish, because we have taken the hate out of the word, and instead have taken it to be empowering.

Sort of like if your grandmother were to talk about penises. It's okay when your girlfriend or your buddy talks like this, but not when granny does.

d3cemberist

The way I look at it is: They are only words. It's the meanings behind them that get to people. The words themself are not offensive.