Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > The Academy > Tilted Philosophy


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-17-2003, 02:59 PM   #1 (permalink)
I change
 
ARTelevision's Avatar
 
Location: USA
Trying to decide if I should see the new Matrix movie...

In general, I think it's a pretty good thing when people talk amongst themselves about philosophical subjects.

Yeah, I think that's what I think...

.........................................................................
A 'Matrix'-Loaded Universe's Daydream Reality

By Hank Stuever
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, May 17, 2003; Page C01


In Matrix mania, there's the feeling that the entire country has just plopped onto a couch for a weekend bong party in a very big dorm room.

There's an idiocy -- the bad kind and the good kind -- that governs a Philosophy 101 class this large, munching and spitting tiny bits of popcorn while loudly trying to suss out the meaning of a story so indebted to Plato's allegory of the cave: Do we exist as we think we do? Is life a lie? Can we somehow unplug from this reality and find salvation in the real reality?

It can all make your head hurt. Web sites for "Matrix" fans have been crashing all week. So much to say, so much typing! Then comes the suspicion that all of blockbuster culture is itself a big lie, a universal bummer in the offing, as we hungrily pounce on new movies to see if they answer our questions or live up to their hype.

So often they do not. People take box office totals personally now: If the new episode of your favorite trilogy doesn't break all previous opening-weekend records, you feel like you've somehow lost your stake in it, as if both your heart and wallet were part of its creation.

The geeking of the American mind is now fully complete. (You don't like kung fu movies? Too bad. Everyone else does.)

Contrary to everything we're told about the dwindling national attention span, millions of people keep queuing up for long, big-budget movies that come with densely layered fantasy plots, confusing twists, unanswerable riddles, deadly-dull expository monologues and many years' worth of character back story.

All of it worth it when the characters fly. (Which is to say, when you fly.) The sensation of cluelessness and confusion and anxiety is rendered irrelevant by the thunder of digitized explosions and the way that special effects can eradicate all of Newtonian physics.

Are we high?

So high.

In the case of "The Matrix Reloaded," we're also too much cool.

Helplessly bound to the infotainment machine, waistlines sprawling, thumbs sore from video games, we ache for the physical movement that has become the trademark of "Matrix" living.

People now daydream in rotoscopic slow motion, with a pulsing techno beat soundtrack. You see it sometimes in how they handle their cell phones. You see it when men wear titanium sunglasses. Fashion designers are trench-coating us to death this fall -- monochrome is still with us. People wear Agent Smith scowls while walking down the street.

There's this vague vibe that our modern lives are really all just some predetermined, exquisitely programmed matrix. We've watched too many car commercials, earned too many liberal arts degrees, gone to the movies too much, read too many comic books, possessed too much shiny metal. This will be our characteristic pose in the history books: sullen, dystopian, jaded. All clad in black, with flecks of neon green here and there, living in a fantasy made solely of stuff we saw reflected on the cave wall.

The pose of "The Matrix Reloaded" keeps us firmly in a state of wishful thinking: In that world, time has moved ahead while aliens have enslaved the human race and lulled them into a permanent zombiehood, where it always seems to be 1999 or so.

In the original "Matrix," which was released before we knew about things like September 11 and the end of the gilded tech age, the heroes unplug so they can see life as it really is. But "The Matrix Reloaded" only becomes exciting when they plug back in. (Another bong hit, then another: The movie puts you back in that other state. In hindsight, who wouldn't want to retreat to 1999?)

Add to that the usual response to "The Matrix": the superior feeling that nobody gets the movie but you. When it comes up in conversation, you realize that there's going to be an argument, a louder discussion. ("No, you don't understaaaaannnnd.") Or you get the feeling that you're going to get lectured again, about Neo being the metaphorical messiah, about the nature of existence, about God.

Slowly, elegantly, from all angles, the reporter leaves the office and not so much walks as glides into Union Station. An imaginary, cassock-like trench coat billows behind him, digitally enhanced for even more perfect billowing. Agents try to prevent his entry. Judo ballet ensues. (All in his mind.) (Or all in yours?)

At the 1 p.m. matinee Thursday of "The Matrix Reloaded," amid an air of truancy and eager drool for the film, a capacity crowd seemed to make true the notion that this particular blockbuster crosses unexpected boundaries of age, gender, race, class: A reverent row of white college freshman males (expected) sits behind four black teenage girls (not so expected), who laugh at everything one or another of them says. A lone man in a leather jacket (the boring, Banana Republic kind of leather) reads the Economist while waiting for the lights to go down. A man in a business suit sneaks in late with his companion, an older blond woman in a red suit, like they've just stolen away from some trade association meeting.

In the intervening years between these "Matrix" chapters, the film industry has marveled at the way the story appeals to both the over-literate and sub-literate of American consumers, how preachers have seized on its themes for their sermons, how accused murderers, including sniper suspect Lee Boyd Malvo, have incorporated its worldview into their own delusions.

Is it possible to love a movie (and the idea of a movie) too much? To watch it too many times, and to anticipate the extension of its canon with a zeal not seen since Paul started delivering epistles to early Christians?

Yes. (Witness all those postgraduate dissertations on "The Matrix.") For all the movie's sleek aesthetic, the act of thinking and talking about "The Matrix" has a remarkable way of turning people into blathering idiots.

As with the essential trope of "The Matrix," there is of course that other option: Skip it. Take that other pill, and remain blissfully unaware, part of that great mass of people who've skipped both movies and seem to be (seem to be) functioning just fine.

The rest of us continue looking for affirmation in the multiplex.

This is how it happens now: The last of the "Star Wars" devotees -- the Lucasites -- continue to deny the heartache of the prequels, insisting that films about galactic tax codes are as good as the originals. The Tolkienists have enjoyed a swelling of their ranks, thanks to the sprawling "Lord of the Rings" films, which, for all their florid dragons and drama, have an inviting, earthy appeal.

Fans of the X-Men -- apparently far more than we were led to believe, thinking back to those days when comic-book shops were thought to be the realm of the hopelessly marginalized egghead set -- have issued, like a council of bishops, approving marks for the film series' adherence to 40 years' worth of comic-book lore.

The Harry Potter children -- a rabid generation of meta-consumers, far too smart for their own good -- write long, complaining reviews to one another when each page of their favorite Potter novel has not been translated verbatim to the screen.

So this powerful identification with the idea of a matrix is perhaps merely a coping mechanism. It's one more fantasy that makes the reality more real. It gets you through those days where you don't know what to believe.

Before the movie started, while people were still talking on their phones and unwrapping contraband food-court nosh, a commercial came on featuring the evil Agent Smith. He told us to drink Powerade thirst quencher.

There was this creepy vibe in the air that we'd already drunk it, swallowed every drop, plugged in to such a degree that we never escape.
......................

Well, I dunno. I'm making up my mind whether to see it or not.

I don't really enjoy "...long, big-budget movies that come with densely layered fantasy plots, confusing twists, unanswerable riddles, deadly-dull expository monologues and many years' worth of character back story."

I did see the first one...so I guess I won't get totally ridiculed for saying all this.

Um, I'm trying to think of something to say here.
Let's see, I think I should see it because people are talking about it...
Is that a good reason?
I don't know.
How 'bout if I catch it when it gets to Blockbuster?
Uh.... I think mimi wants to see it.
Ok. I'll ask sus.
Just a sec....
(goes to ask sus)
OK she wants to see it.
I guess we'll go at some point.

Anyway, what this guy says is interesting to me as you can imagine just because he's talking about how INTO pop culture we are...and stuff.
__________________
create evolution

Last edited by ARTelevision; 05-17-2003 at 03:09 PM..
ARTelevision is offline  
Old 05-17-2003, 03:08 PM   #2 (permalink)
Kyp
Insane
 
Location: Oregon
If you liked the first one, see it. But, if drop all expectations of what you're going to see, if you walk in expecting to see some things happen, they most likely won't, and you'll be dissappointed.

I've seen it twice, and loved it both times. Just don't go in expecting to see Neo as a god-figure, and other things like that. Watch the movie for what it is, and you'll love it.

I apologize, I didn't read the whole article, it's a little too long and I've got a short attention span right now

Edit: Okay, I read the article. I disagree with quite a lot of what the guy was saying. A very few people take things too far, and this guy is one of them. He is claiming that movies have such a great effect on people that they become almost a way of life. This is not true. Sure, people get excited about movies. Sure, people dress up for the premiere of Star Wars movies.

This guy is claiming that trench coats, sunglasses, and looks on a persons face are coming into fad because of The Matrix. This is not true. They're just there. They were already there, even before The Matrix. His comments on how people daydream are absurd. How could he possibly know how people daydream? Perhaps his dreams are like that, as he seems to believe all this. Other peoples are not. Sure, it's fun to think about the "what if?"s, and a common "what if?" now is "what if we are in the Matrix?" It's just a thought, it's not something most people take seriously. It's weird to see how some of the more "intelligent" people have a take on things such as this, while a 12 year old just has fun with it.

Anyways, I could probably comment on almost everything he said, but I won't take the time to.
__________________
When life gives you lemons, sqeeze the juice into a squirt gun and shoot people in the eyes

Last edited by Kyp; 05-17-2003 at 03:38 PM..
Kyp is offline  
Old 05-17-2003, 03:35 PM   #3 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: Sydney, Australia
I dunno Art, you like that people are talking basic philosophy, but you see a lot of irony in the hype. You feel like you might enjoy the moive but you really don't feel the need to be drawn into the culture of the opening weekend; and you know all too well how the media treatment will play out over the coming months.

I offer you the Australian solution. When you go to the cinema and see all of the fans dressed in dark suits and shades as Hugo Weaving's Agent Smith, high kicking each other in slow motion...and you don't know what to think of it - think only of this photo:

<IMG SRC="http://www.valinor.com.br/imagens/filme/hugoweaving_4.jpg">

...and have a good laugh about the whole thing.
Macheath is offline  
Old 05-17-2003, 04:22 PM   #4 (permalink)
Crazy
 
Location: right behind you...
since the arrticle above was longer than the whole movie, i didn't read all of it yet (i will in a moment)

Art - I saw the first one.... honestly, it was cool but certainly not as good as most people have said.. to me anyhow. my opinion.

I jusst got back from Reloaded and it really is the single best sci fi movie i've seen.
i'm not much of a sci fi and pc guy (although I love fantasy), but this movie was absolutely wonderful and worth the money. and it is should be considered 'art'.

the fighting coreagraphy (i know that's mispelled) was amazing and even beautiful.

think about it this way. if you don't see it you'll wonder if you missed out. if you do go and hate it, at least it was only $15 or less and 2 hours of your time wasted.


as for the article.... do I exist? I hope so, but if i don't, i never wanna meet the fucked up person imagining me
WhoaitsZ is offline  
Old 05-17-2003, 04:28 PM   #5 (permalink)
Crazy
 
Location: right behind you...
that article, somehow, gives me an image of a Britney Spear fan trying to write an unbiased essay of pop music movement while trying to not act pop.

he needs counseling.
WhoaitsZ is offline  
Old 05-17-2003, 04:46 PM   #6 (permalink)
Psycho
 
Location: Drifting.
Personally, when i went to watch Reloaded, i had studiously avoided reading any information about it, save for the trailer, which i was kinda forced to watch in another movie. So i went into the movie expecting nothing, and i was pleasantly rewarded. Its interesting, the action scenes are pretty good (although the CG was a bit dodgy and the editing could have been better), and it leaves many questions unanswered (which will hopefully be answered in the third.) So, yeah, i'd recommend it.

Whether, like you said, you want to act upon my recommendation is up to you =)
Loki is offline  
Old 05-17-2003, 06:16 PM   #7 (permalink)
Big Julie
Guest
 
Hmmm...maybe I'll remember to rent it sometime.

The first one was some good eye-candy alright, but the premise didn't set my heart aflutter. Surely, in the last few decades of Sci-Fi writing, the idea has already been explored. Maybe I'll come across it someday.

In the meantime, I've sorta got a hankerin' to see "Priscilla, Queen of the Desert" again...
 
Old 05-25-2003, 09:21 PM   #8 (permalink)
Modern Man
 
Location: West Michigan
I think he's talking more about the geeking of culture as a whole, he's just using the matrix to get there. Its an interesting commentary on pop culture. When Geek culture becomes pop culture, what is going to replace geek culture? Geekier culture? By Geek Culture of course he means Star Wars Geeks, Matrix Geeks, PC Geeks, Comic Book Geeks, Anime Geeks, Film Geeks, name your fetish ...When all of that becomes mainstream culture, what is the alternative. Kind of like when Alternative music topped the pop music charts, what replaced it? Those are the questions I walked away with from the article regardless...Thank you for sharing it.

I think that he is making the comparison that we are all "plugged into the matrix" by becoming geeks about something, meanwhile there are less and less of the unplugged. Everyones a fanboy of something these days, what has happened to the Renaissance man? I disagree with that premise on some levels, but I think I get his point, culture is moving towards specialization and Geek is becoming Pop.

I could be way off though...
__________________
Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul
I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold.
-Son House, Death Letter Blues
Conclamo Ludus is offline  
Old 05-25-2003, 10:33 PM   #9 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: Right here
Quote:
Originally posted by Conclamo Ludus
I could be way off though...
Not way off...

He's also referring to two concepts of:
1) the cinematic society--wherein people are converted into virtual "peeping toms."

2) the circuit of commodities--in this case, our eyeballs complete the circuit. He isn't claiming, for example, that the Matrix engendered the fads of trench coats and sunglasses--but it does solidify and reinvigorate them.

Traditionally the movie ticket, popcorn, and Powerade were the commodities. Now, however, _we_ become the commodities.
smooth is offline  
Old 05-25-2003, 10:37 PM   #10 (permalink)
Modern Man
 
Location: West Michigan
Quote:
Originally posted by smooth
Not way off...

Now, however, _we_ become the commodities.
Bingo. We become the "power" for "the Matrix".

Consumerism=one hell of a battery!

Good point!
__________________
Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul
I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold.
-Son House, Death Letter Blues
Conclamo Ludus is offline  
Old 05-26-2003, 11:32 PM   #11 (permalink)
Condition: Stable and Improving
 
Skettios's Avatar
 
Location: Finger on the little red button.
I actually really liked that article.

The one thing it says to me, is that people are very hungry for philosophy. We all want to know if we're screwing ourselves into the ground with our moral relativism and fast food convenience.

The last point about consumerism and being a battery is a good one to make. It demonstrates the compulsive draw of our way of life, and the inherent risk of it that we all recognize yet choose to ignore on a daily basis.

The question in the end is, will we be able to save ourselves?
__________________
Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.

Frederich Nietzsche

Skettios is offline  
Old 05-27-2003, 05:36 AM   #12 (permalink)
Addict
 
Location: Wisconsin, USA
It all boils down to one simple fact:

It's a movie. Mindless entertainment.

Get over it!
mtsgsd is offline  
Old 05-27-2003, 06:13 AM   #13 (permalink)
I change
 
ARTelevision's Avatar
 
Location: USA
mtsgsd,
the world and human beings are far more complex than those simple statements of yours.
__________________
create evolution
ARTelevision is offline  
Old 05-27-2003, 11:55 AM   #14 (permalink)
Condition: Stable and Improving
 
Skettios's Avatar
 
Location: Finger on the little red button.
Quote:
Originally posted by mtsgsd
It all boils down to one simple fact:

It's a movie. Mindless entertainment.

Get over it!
The thing is, that we live in a society based on escapism. People don't talk about their friends and families anymore. They talk about what they watched on TV last night, or the movie they saw over the weekend. If they do talk about something personal, it's usually about the hot bitch they fucked the other night.

When people have conversations about the big five
Friendship
Love
Justice
Death
and
God

Some people get really interested and want more, that's philosophy (and my favorite part about TFP), but others get really scared and change the subject.
Why do we always change the subject? I think that might be a question this article is asking.

And Art I agree, it would be interesting to continue this line of conversation.
__________________
Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.

Frederich Nietzsche

Skettios is offline  
Old 05-28-2003, 04:41 PM   #15 (permalink)
Modern Man
 
Location: West Michigan
People have always escaped in one way or another. Is it getting worse? Maybe. Is escapism dangerous? I guess it depends on how you escape. If it is a mindless detachment from whatever your watching, reading, listening to, etc. I would say its dangerous, its a waste of your brainwaves if it doesn't challenge you to do something. The other type of escapism is one that you take the reigns of. A controlled escapism. Letting something challenge your ideas and then debating them. I would be more worried about people going to see movies all the time and then never talking about them. Sometimes a common movie experience or a common book, can bring people together, as it does here. Is that dangerous escapism? I don't think so. Sharing a common viewing experience can bring to the forefront ideas about Friendship, Love, Justice, Death, and God, and then we share our ideas on them.

Movies, Books, Comic Books, Music, the Internet. These things are as mindless as one chooses to make them. They can be as trivial or as important as you want.
__________________
Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul
I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold.
-Son House, Death Letter Blues
Conclamo Ludus is offline  
Old 05-28-2003, 08:04 PM   #16 (permalink)
Know Where!
 
MacGnG's Avatar
 
if u arent into it, u arent going to like it.
MacGnG is offline  
Old 05-28-2003, 09:31 PM   #17 (permalink)
Condition: Stable and Improving
 
Skettios's Avatar
 
Location: Finger on the little red button.
Quote:
Originally posted by Conclamo Ludus
Sharing a common viewing experience can bring to the forefront ideas about Friendship, Love, Justice, Death, and God, and then we share our ideas on them.

Movies, Books, Comic Books, Music, the Internet. These things are as mindless as one chooses to make them. They can be as trivial or as important as you want.
I absolutely agree, and think that this is an important point to make. I don't want it to seem like I"m saying that all of our modern entertainment media is devoid of value. I would say that a lot of it is, like network tv, but there is also a lot of it that has important things to say. So that's a good point to keep in mind.
__________________
Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.

Frederich Nietzsche

Skettios is offline  
 

Tags
air, guy, hot, matrix, movie

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:55 AM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360