10-13-2006, 10:10 AM | #761 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: way out west
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So why did Max Cleland quit the 9-11 Commission?
Why did Bush and Cheney not want to investigate in the first place? Why wouldn't they testify under oath? There was more suspicious activity (or lack of) after that day than during it. And we still haven't mentioned Dov Zackheim. |
10-13-2006, 10:29 AM | #762 (permalink) |
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The funny thing with those types of movies or documentaries (like the Loose Change movie) do two things
- Reinforce the beliefs of those in the conspiracy camp - "Wow, that is so true. That is what I was thinking" - Reinforce the beliefs of those in the no-conspiracy camp - "That does not prove anything, the whole thing is junk"
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Sticky The Stickman |
10-13-2006, 10:50 AM | #763 (permalink) | ||
Pissing in the cornflakes
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Its more like it reinforces the beliefs that pro-conspiracy people are easy to fool and confuse. Quote:
This should be REQUIRED viewing prior to posting in this thread. Classic. "Bush: ...but one fourth of the population is retarded, if they want to believe we control everything with intricate plans why not let them? ... Kyle:So then who was responsible for 9/11? Stan: What do you mean? A bunch of pissed off Muslims. Hardley boy:Yea what are you retarded?" Oh SouthPark, you rarely let me down.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. Last edited by Ustwo; 10-13-2006 at 11:42 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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10-13-2006, 12:26 PM | #764 (permalink) | |
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That would be like me saying, "Bush supporters have really let themselves drift into denial...the war is based on incorrect information, the war was planned before 9/11, the war has killed hundreds of thousands of the people we were trying to liberate, and yet it's still a just war? Sounds like Bush supporters are easy to fool and confuse..." |
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10-13-2006, 01:51 PM | #765 (permalink) |
Devils Cabana Boy
Location: Central Coast CA
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I think it is good to draw a parallel between the war and 9/11, the conspiracy theorist believe the government is out to get everyone that they ignore the facts and go on speculation, and early information. Just like the people who support the war because we found WMD (we did not) and because the world supports the war (they don’t) and all the other common misconceptions that people have about the war. They ignore the facts of the war, and still believe what everyone else thought years ago about it when there was not much information.
The WTC collapses are the most well studied structural failure of all time, and 99.99% of the reports agree that the planes could cause the damage and bring the towers down, the other .01% is shoddy at best and usually full of holes, 99.99% of the people are not in the pocket of the government.
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10-14-2006, 02:04 AM | #767 (permalink) | |
Devils Cabana Boy
Location: Central Coast CA
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Numerous studies have been conducted: FEMA, NIST, Purdue university, msc software, the journal JOM, popular mechanics, Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl civil engineering professor at the University of California Berkeley... And this is just 5 minutes on Google, try research, its better then making stuff up.
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Donate Blood! "Love is not finding the perfect person, but learning to see an imperfect person perfectly." -Sam Keen |
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10-14-2006, 07:14 AM | #768 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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10-14-2006, 08:59 AM | #769 (permalink) |
Devils Cabana Boy
Location: Central Coast CA
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Look at all the people popmech and the NIST got there interviews from, that is the research I am pointing too, all that research and experts. Second, they did not get the parameters from anyone, except the facts know about the situation, the structural material of the buildings and planes, and the temperatures researched in the physical, real world simulations.
The initial impacts in all the simulations mirror the real world events, showing that a plane hitting the pentagon will go inside and be shredded by the support beams. And that the planes would break many outside supports and inner supports of the WTC. The simulations and common sence show us that heat applied to a metal truss, stripped of its fire proofing will expand, warp and loose al manner of structural integrity; eventually leading to the collapse. This is backed up by video evidence of the walls being pulled in as the fires died down and the metal trusses cooled. this cooling pulled the outer supports in, as seen in the final video's, since the weight was not directly over the support, they buckled and pancake all the way down, the forces being so massive that the below floors causes no real resistance, giving a near freefall speed.
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10-15-2006, 11:37 PM | #770 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: way out west
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What? As the metal cooled down? For cryin' out loud this whole fiasco lasted less than an hour, steel that expands "six inches" in your "1800 degree" fire would take the friggin' day to return back to ambient size unless you quenched it with water. But then it flared up again after crashing to the ground and stayed glowing orange for another month... OK.
The more you explain the less sense it makes. In the words of Prof. Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl himself... "I have not been provided with the information made available to the FEMA Building Performance Assessment Team. This includes, videotapes and photographs taken on 9/11and the following days and copies of the engineering drawings. At this time, having the videotapes, photographs and copies of the drawings not only is useful, but also is essential in enabling us to conduct any analysis of the collapse and to formulate conclusions from our effort." He may be a good investigator but arrived 8 days after the fact and was hindered in his efforts. Last edited by fastom; 10-15-2006 at 11:55 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
10-16-2006, 06:56 AM | #771 (permalink) |
Devils Cabana Boy
Location: Central Coast CA
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How can you explain the walls pulling in around the crash site just prior to the collapse, did the explosive you think were there create a slow sucking vacuum? Do we now have agents installing winches and pulleys in the building too? There is no explanation that fits the evidence but a fire that expanded and contracted the girders, explosives don’t make things contract, its lunacy. The simulations and the video evidence shows that the walls contracted in just before the collapse, there is no other force that could have done that, except the contracting girders.
As a side note, using emoticons that laugh and roll there eyes is rude, condescending, and shows the weakness of your argument, you need to stoop to that level to try and win. Grow up.
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10-16-2006, 08:07 AM | #772 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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10-16-2006, 06:00 PM | #773 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: way out west
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Sorry to diss your lunacy, Dil. I'll try and be more polite.
This expansion and contraction of the steel sounds quite bizarre. If the fire was still going what would have cooled the steel enough to shrink it that fast... do you think the girders went swimming? But still... this is just one aspect of several dozen inconsistancies in the offical story. |
10-16-2006, 06:46 PM | #774 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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You seem far away from trying to understand or discuss, I give a tip of the hat at least that he's given a tip o the hat to it, even if he doesn't agree 100%. I have yet to see you even come down from your hyperbole high horse.
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10-16-2006, 07:54 PM | #775 (permalink) |
Devils Cabana Boy
Location: Central Coast CA
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I’d love to see an explosive pull; explosives expand, the only way you could get the outer walls to move inward would for the explosives to be outside the walls. Controlled demolitions do not slowly pull the outer supports inwards for the last few minutes, explosions are quick, not slow acting, constant pulling forces. Furthermore, controlled demolitions are designed to sever the main supports and let gravity do the work at pulling the building down. The reason controlled demolitions don’t tip (too much) is because the lateral forces on the building are nothing compared to the force needed to accelerate the building laterally, as apposed to gravity which is much stronger. a controlled demolitions could produce the falling effect we see with the building, so could the collapse of a floor due to fire, however, with explosives, there would be explosive residue, and other tell tail signs of explosives. Also, controlled demos are designed to be used on the lower levels, which we don’t see in the collapse of the WTC. However, it is possible that the people who orchestrated it (putting words in your mouth, I don’t think this is what happened) knew that by removing support to a floor or 2 would bring the entire tower down because of the design flaws. But this is overcomplicating it, it has been shown time and time again in simulations that steel trusses, with there fire proofing reduce or removed, will heat, expand, and distort so that they lose the structural integrity.
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10-18-2006, 08:35 AM | #776 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: way out west
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Dil.... they aren't simply trying to blow stuff up... that's why they call it "Controlled" Demolition.
If you "blew up" the right support you can make the walls fall inward. They don't just lay a wheelbarrow load of dynamite on the floor. It's like sawing a tree where making the right cut in the right spot you can direct which way it falls. Thermite makes sense for that. I don't think much testing was done for explosive residue but didn't eyewitnesses smell that in NYC as they did at the Pentagon? Last edited by fastom; 10-18-2006 at 08:41 AM.. |
10-18-2006, 09:13 AM | #777 (permalink) | |
Rail Baron
Location: Tallyfla
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10-18-2006, 11:40 AM | #778 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: way out west
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While Dil is saying inward other "experts" on the government's side say outward.
Here's something else i found. There are a lot of little coincidences. " George W. Bush's brother was on the board of directors of a company providing electronic security for the World Trade Center, Dulles International Airport and United Airlines, according to public records. The company was backed by an investment firm, the Kuwait-American Corp., also linked for years to the Bush family. The security company, formerly named Securacom and now named Stratesec, is in Sterling, Va.. Its CEO, Barry McDaniel, said the company had a ``completion contract" to handle some of the security at the World Trade Center ``up to the day the buildings fell down." KuwAm has been linked to the Bush family financially since the Gulf War. One of its principals and a member of the Kuwaiti royal family, Mishal Yousef Saud al Sabah, served on the board of Stratesec. The managing director at KuwAm, Wirt D. Walker III, was also a principal at Stratesec, and Walker, Marvin Bush and al Sabah are listed in SEC filings as significant shareholders in both companies during that period. Marvin Bush's last year on the board at Stratesec coincided with his first year on the board of HCC Insurance, formerly Houston Casualty Co., one of the insurance carriers for the WTC. He left the HCC board in November 2002. But none of these connections has been looked at during the extensive investigations since 9/11. McDaniel says principals and other personnel at Stratesec have not been questioned or debriefed by the FBI or other investigators. Walker declined to answer the same question regarding KuwAm, referring to the public record. " |
10-18-2006, 01:38 PM | #779 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Fort Worth, TX
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Please document where you get your information, and if it's 911truth.org or whatever I want to know their documentation please.
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10-18-2006, 03:31 PM | #780 (permalink) |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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Google.com answers all, Seaver:
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0204-06.htm http://anderson.ath.cx:8000/911/hj05.html http://www.infowars.com/articles/sep...s_role_911.htm It's all about little Marvin Bush. |
10-18-2006, 03:45 PM | #781 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Fort Worth, TX
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Sorry Wil, the links provided to the origional story don't work. And forgive me if I dont take infowars at face value.
And the American Reporter (the "origional" story) does not seem to have the article.
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"Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas |
10-18-2006, 04:31 PM | #782 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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10-18-2006, 05:14 PM | #783 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Indiana
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Do you really think the 9/11 truth movement would be gaining such momentum if people who went to check out the information found total fabrication? Most conspiracy sites do nothing other than document a labyrinth of new stories that were never focused on in the mainstream. |
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10-18-2006, 06:25 PM | #784 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: Fort Worth, TX
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Do you really think that something like this would be ignored if it were full of substance? Quote:
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"Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas |
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10-18-2006, 06:31 PM | #785 (permalink) | |
Devils Cabana Boy
Location: Central Coast CA
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I don’t know why people keep bringing up thermite, to say thermite brought down the towers is just plane stupid, seriously stupid, it just shows how un-researched the conspiracy theorist are. If you are going to sever a vertical beam, thermite cannot be used, thermite cannot be controlled by any means, when it starts, and it burns straight down, no exceptions. None, noda zip zilch. It’s the wrong tool for the job; it’s like using a philips screwdriver to take out a flat head screw. If you want to sever a vertical beam, you use a shaped charge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaped_charge As for the bowing outer supports, here is both video and photographic evidence that shows the outer supports near the impact side were bowing in for the last 20 minutes before the collapse. Please find me explosives that slowly bow metal towards the explosives for 20 minutes. http://www.representativepress.org/B...xplosives.html as for Marvin Bush, again, like I usually say check your facts. He stopped being a director at the end of the 2000 fiscal year, June 2000 more then a year befor 9/11. Quote:
For a more thorough job, please read http://911myths.com/html/stratesec.html
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10-18-2006, 08:01 PM | #787 (permalink) |
Devils Cabana Boy
Location: Central Coast CA
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No, thermite can't, it’s too hot to be directed, it will melt anything trying to direct it. Second, the vertical beams are the load bearing beams, not the vertical beams.
Sorry, you are flat out wrong on this, feel free to argue shaped charges, they are commonly used for controlled demolitions, but thermite is not used for controlled demolitions, because its not controllable, it burns straight down, its only good for welding railroads and putting holes in cars. Here is the best known attempt to direct thermite http://www.itep.ws/pdf/FOI_Rapport.pdf It failed, and at best, it could direct a small amount to cut a small hole, not an entire beam. Thermite is flat wrong.
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10-18-2006, 08:10 PM | #788 (permalink) |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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Airline fuel and moderate crash damage bringing down a steel reinforced building at near free fall speeds and in under an hour is impossible. That's where all this stuff stops. We can pretend the building reached unbelievable temperatures, and we can believe that passport survived, and we can belive that even though some of the terrorists survived, the FBI and CIA figured out the whole story...but at the end of the day, something impossible happened. We can pretend that those impossible temperatures reached were able to thermally expand beam after beam after beam, somehow weakening the whole thing, desipte there being no evidence to suggest that, but the damed things came down too fast after being hit, and they fell to the ground too fast. While it doesn't take a physicist to figure it out, I was finally able to get a hold of someone...my physics teacher from HS. He holds his masters from Stanford, and he knows more about physics than most people, myself included. Guess what? After about 2 hours of discussion, I had his full and undivided attention. It took him a few weeks to get back to me, but he said that my case was a lot stronger than any of the official cases, espically the NIST report (I gave him my copy). The collapse was not explained by reaonable science. At the end of the day, something impossible happened.
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10-18-2006, 08:17 PM | #790 (permalink) | |
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10-18-2006, 09:17 PM | #791 (permalink) | |||
Devils Cabana Boy
Location: Central Coast CA
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As for Max Cleland, I could care less, the investigation I have said a few times has some issues, just like the obstruction the bush administration has put forth, to cover the own incompetence. I think that it may not have happened if the bush administration had been paying attention. Still does not mean that planes hit the buildings causing there collapse, it just means that bush shoved his cronies everywhere to cover his ass. Quote:
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But seriously, I see no point to continue this further, it’s pointless, I show you undeniable evidence that the walls slowly were pulled in a few minutes prior to the collapse, which rules out explosives and thermite is still insisted as being used.
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10-18-2006, 09:21 PM | #792 (permalink) | |
Artist of Life
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PS: What's your physics lab instructor's name? I'm curious. He must be fairly old by now. Last edited by Ch'i; 10-18-2006 at 09:28 PM.. |
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10-18-2006, 09:29 PM | #793 (permalink) |
Devils Cabana Boy
Location: Central Coast CA
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he's 90 something, i'll ask him if i can use his name, but i doubt he wants to be bugged about this.
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10-18-2006, 09:39 PM | #794 (permalink) | |||
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I still am only reading speculation. I'd like to get proof that thermite can't do what it appeared to do on 9/11. Quote:
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10-18-2006, 09:43 PM | #795 (permalink) | |
Artist of Life
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Which school do you attend/at which school does this man teach? Last edited by Ch'i; 10-18-2006 at 09:49 PM.. |
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10-18-2006, 10:22 PM | #796 (permalink) | |||||
Devils Cabana Boy
Location: Central Coast CA
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http://www.representativepress.org/B...xplosives.html it makes no sense that the outer walls would slowly bend and buckle, then explosives would be set off, why would it show signs of immanent collapse, then be destroyed by explosives. Quote:
The school is tiny and by giving any one of these, he is easily identifiable, and so am i by my other post on this board. As for his duties, specialties, and category, I’ll ask him next time I see him.
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Donate Blood! "Love is not finding the perfect person, but learning to see an imperfect person perfectly." -Sam Keen Last edited by Dilbert1234567; 10-18-2006 at 10:25 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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10-18-2006, 11:52 PM | #797 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: way out west
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Your teacher is 90?
Anyways.... your quickly slapped together 110 story shanties were started in 1966 and grand opening was in 1973. Ask your professor how long that is. By the way is it you writing this ? http://www.representativepress.org/B...xplosives.html |
10-19-2006, 06:51 AM | #798 (permalink) | |
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Sticky The Stickman |
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10-19-2006, 06:55 AM | #799 (permalink) |
Devils Cabana Boy
Location: Central Coast CA
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He is actually older then 90, I think he exact age is 92, but I know he is older then 90. he is only a lab instructor, and he has missed one lab due to 'being unable to stand and drive to class' he's old, but smarter then anyone I’ve ever known, hawking would not have to dumb down for him.
And no I did not write that, I think there views on Israel are wrong, but I don’t care about there views on Israel, I just care about the pictures of the outer supports slowly bowing in over the last few minutes of the towers life. As for the tower, its construction was so fast due to its light weight steel truss construction.
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Donate Blood! "Love is not finding the perfect person, but learning to see an imperfect person perfectly." -Sam Keen |
10-19-2006, 10:54 AM | #800 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: way out west
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So fast? Construction started in the mid sixties and they opened in the seventies! Looking at the construction downtown here it seems a building takes a few months to do now.
But then i have to ask myself why are they still constructing tall buildings... don't we know they are apt to crumble into dust in just seconds if you have a miscue with the stove. If buildings are as unsafe as you make them out to be there would be lots of new regulations... are you aware of any? Last edited by fastom; 10-19-2006 at 05:30 PM.. |
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