scott_p_1

Now I personally really dislike SUVs. The feelings boil down to mostly their fuel economy and emissions, and safety. I really think they're completely unneeded in 95% of the situations they're used in and there are much better alternatives available most of the time.

Basically, I'm interested in finding out how many people share my opinion

And even more so, I'm interested as to why people would choose SUVs over (what I consider to be) more practical vehicles.

the_marq

So I take it you drive an electric car that gives off no emissions whatsoever.

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#3 in a series

scott_p_1

Actually, I don't drive right now. Right now I walk or bike everywhere since I live in the city and it's only a 25 minute walk to university.

Given a good, reliable, affordable electric car, yes, I would drive one (when I buy a vehicle).

So I take it you drive an SUV and this is your defence?

And there is a large difference between a car which gives off some emmissions and an SUV that gives off a lot of emissions.

But I digress, I'm not trying to turn this into a flame war.

the_marq

Well sort of; my girlfriend and I drive a Ford Escape and a Ford Ranger. One is technincally an SUV even tho it's pretty small and my Ranger could be considered in the same class. However, to clarify; I also dislike the big ass SUV's such as the Esclade, Lincoln Navigator, or Ford Expedition. They are big, ugly and dangerous.

So for the most part I agree with you. But it's all relative. Too many people are willing to throw stones at the SUV owners as the eco-enemy de jour, while they are driving around in 20-yr old VW vans that pollute more than any new H2.

So anyway, I appologize for attacking you in my first post, that wasn't my intent, and I commend you on your bicycle commute.

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#3 in a series

THGL

My wife and I own a Volvo 940 and a '98 Chevy Blazer 2-door, we also have 2 children. When we get the Blazer paid down enough it'll be traded in, right now my wife likes the Expedition (but I think she'd be happy in an Explorer as well).

Even though it's a hassle to get 2 children (18mo. & 3mo.) into the backseat of a 2-door Blazer, my wife prefers it to the Volvo because she's feels safer in it. Because she sits higher she has a more commanding view of what's ahead, the Blazer is 4WD so in winter months the added safety is there, and because the Blazer is still a truck she and the children are a little safer in some wreck scenerios (she's been rear-ended in the Blazer when she was 7mo. pregnant and all we had to do was replace the bumper and she and all babies were fine).

When we (or just herself) go somewhere with the kiddos it's like packing for an overnight stay... 2 children, 1 huge diaper bag (or 2 smaller ones), one monster baby stroller (able to hold 2 kids and storage for the diaper bags). All that takes up a lot of space and if it's time to go shopping we'll need the space for all that plus whatever we buy (groceries or whatnot). A Toyota Prius just can't compete when it comes to storage like an Explorer or Expedition.

Also, our house is not perfect (none are) and I make trips to the lumber yard or Home Depot for building supplies, landscaping supplies, etc. and that's where an SUV comes in real handy. Multiple sheets of drywall are NOT going to fit into a Honda Civic.

I'd like to pick up a used compact truck and use it for home improvement projects, but we just don't have the extra money or place to park it right now so an SUV fits our needs.

Yes, an SUV uses more gas than a car... there are more and heavier parts to move so the engine isn't as fuel efficient... that's just part of the cost of owning one. Today's engines are a hell of a lot more efficient than those of 10-15 years ago (there are a few engines so good that what comes out the tailpipe is cleaner what what goes in the intake! It's true.), so don't tell me that we're harming the environment by driving an SUV. Like someone said already, beat-up VW Vanagons are doing a lot more harm than anything I could buy today.

Different strokes for different folks.

If you want to exaggerate things how's this? If someone runs into me and my SUV all I have to do is replace a few body panels and I'm back on the road but if someone runs into your little econobox the whole thing is totaled so it'll take up space in a junkyard, dripping fluids and old flaking paint into Mother Earth. If someone runs into me and my SUV there's a good chance I'll walk away but if someone runs into you and your econobox, the fire dept./EMS will have to be called... fire trucks and ambulances pollute a HELL OF A LOT more than any SUV... not to mention the added cost to John Q. Taxpayer who has to pay for the emergency service run you caused.

theburner

My wife has an Eddie Bauer Explorer, and to be honest I was looking at trading it in on a Volvo S80. Then my 16 month old son and I were out for a drive and got T-Boned by a pickup truck. Caved in the whole side of the truck, and scared the SHIT out of me. My son and I were unhurt, and the truck took the full brunt of the impact.
Long story short, I will ALWAYS own an SUV for the safety. This just made me realize that they are safer than cars. Yes, the environment, pollution.. yada yada yada. My families safety comes first.

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scott_p_1

Ahh, memories of hauling plywood and drywall with my dad in our old Honda Civic hatchback. Except for weight issues, the thing could haul anything (and possibly more) than any SUV could. We both thing that 1986 Honda Civic was quite possibly one of the best vehicles of it's time

Good point. Thank god it's not the case that these SUVs are that bad. But to be fair, most people aren't making the choice betwen buying a Navigator and a VW Van.

What about to poor shmuck who hits your SUV? You don't mind sending him to the ER? The problem isn't really when said econobox get's in an accident, it's when said econobox gets in an accident with an SUV. A few years ago, I was driving one of those econoboxes when I happened to rear end a SUV. Basically, my car went right underneath the SUV. It caused approximately $2000 worth of damage to the car, and about $100 to the SUV (little touch up of paint). Now if I were to have gotten in the same accident with another car, the forces would have been more evenly spread over the 2 cars, and more importantly, the forces would have been on the bumpers. The total damage between the 2 vehicles would have been much less.

But please, if you're looking into buying a new vehicle, which your 2 small children are going to be in, do some research on vehicle safety, and think about everybody's safety, there's children in the other cars on the road too.
Here's a link to get you started:
http://www.suv.org/safety.html

I know it's biased, but it's just to get you thinking.

waltert

there are alot of people who drive SUVs and dont need them. I think that a push towards higher gas prices could put the squeeze on americans pockets like it needs to be.

KMA-628

Here is our forecast for the weekend:

Wanna know how many people I have had to help around here during snowstorms when their "efficient" little cars get stuck? Hell, not too long ago, I needed 4WD just to back out of my garage so that I could take my sister-in-law to work (her car was stuck).

"Practical" is your opinion, hardly based on anything factual. For a family of five, in Colorado, SUV's are very, very practical. And, I use mine for more than just snow days.

KMA-628

What about older cars on the road? I also have a 1991 Toyota that doesn't get much better mileage than my SUV.

Older cars do not usually get good mileage. Why do most people drive older cars? Maybe because they can't afford a new, more efficient car. So, your answer is to stick it to them at the gas pump too?

"a push towards higher gas prices" = raise taxes.

Its called personal freedom. I want to drive an SUV, so I do. You don't want to, so don't. Don't tell me what to drive, how to live, etc.

Anyway, do you really think that SUV emmissions are any worse than the ones from a lot of the POS cars that I see all over the road, every single day?????

cj2112

So how is it the SUV owners fault that you CHOSE to drive a smaller car that is unsafe in an accident against a larger vehicle? Should all cars be banned because if they are in an accident with somebody on a motorcycle the motorcycle rider might be injured? What about if the guy on the motorcycle hits a pedestrian? Should we ban motorcycles because they put pedestrians at risk?

Coppertop

I live in San Jose, California and the nastiest weather we get here is rain. So unless you're trekking up to the Sierras every weekend in the winter, I don't see too much need for them where I live.

My major beef is when the drivers think they can perform like sports cars and thus drive that way. or the drivers who try to jam them into compact parking spaces. Like, hello?! So I guess its mostly just the drivers who irk me.

Redlemon

Conversely, why stop at SUVs? Why not by a full-fledged tank?

1slOwCD8

I dont really car if people drive SUVs or not, if its what they want and dont mind the gas mileage, hey why not. Some drive them because they feel safer, and they dont want a minivan or truck.

braisler

SUVs are not needed in Colorado, at least not the Expedition, Escalade, LandDestroyer versions. What about an AWD drive model from Subaru or Volvo? Both have current models that get up to 32 mpg. That mileage doesn't happen with SUVs.

I don't have a problem with families having SUVs if they feel that it fits their needs. I am all for individual freedom when it comes to selecting what you drive and how much you pay for it. I do find it a little bit funny when I see one person, alone, driving these monsters to work each day. Also the bias that most people have against the station wagon (basically a squashed down SUV) and the minivan. Those vehicles have pretty much all of the same attributes as the average SUV, except for the towing capacity and truck chassis. Really, how many soccer moms are towing home a trailer filled with 8000 pounds of alfalfa hay?

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cj2112

because they're not street legal, and have you ever been in a tank? They're not the most comfortable mode of transportation

KMA-628

Very simple answer to this one: my cars are paid for. Why should I immerse myself in debt to placate someone else?

"I am all for individual freedom" followed by a critique of an individual that is free to drive whatever they want to drive. It is not up to you to define what fits anyone's needs but your own. Your sentence #2 is completely contradicted by the first and last sentence of this part of your post.

My Explorer: 18-20 MPG
My In-Law's Minivan: 20-22 MPG.

They weigh almost the same, they are almost the same size, why criticize one type of vehicle over another that is pretty much equal?

What if they use it to tow a boat or a trailer on the weekends? It is a multi-purpose vehicle, i.e. suits more than one purpose. It gets me to work. It gets me through snow. It takes me on trails. It hauls a bunch of people. It will tow a trailer. It also carrys all of the crap I have to buy at Sam's to stock a family of five.

One vehicle suits all of these needs. (BTW, I think Subaru's are ugly and I won't drive a minivan)

Anyway, I don't think I have the right to tell other people what to drive, it is a personal decision. Don't spout your beliefs about "individual freedoms" and then go on to condemn people expressing their individual freedoms.

Redlemon

California's SUV Ban - The Golden State has outlawed big SUVs on many of its roads but doesn't seem to know it. By Andy Bowers
excerpt:

cj2112

the GVWR is not only the vehicle, but it's passengers and cargo. Lets use the suburban as an example....it has a curb weight of 5268 lbs. True the GVWR is 7000 lbs, but that is fully loaded. Lets say there are 2 adults @175 lbs. each and two children at 100 lbs. each, that still leaves us under the 6000 lb limit.

Cynthetiq

woah.. that's pretty amazing.. thanks for the link...

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Lockjaw

I have no problems with SUVs. They really aren't my style as if I was going to get a monster vehicle it would be a Quad cab F-250. But if they want to drive a gas guzzling money pit let them.
They pollute too much....so do half the rattle traps on the road.
They guzzle too much gas...they are paying for it so what's the problem?
They are unsafe...they are unsafe for the other dude not the person driving. If you feel unsafe around SUVs get a beater pick up truck and go to town.
They are unnecessary for the most part. So are most cars with power levels greater than 80 horsepower but if I want it and can afford it it's up to me and me alone.

scott_p_1

There's also 4 wheel drive cars. Also remember, 4 wheel drive doesn't really help you stop better, it only helps you get going better. If it's to the point where you can't get out of where you're going, it's probably a good idea to not go anywhere. In fact, last weekend in some places in Nova Scotia, there was over a foot of snow in just one night, followed up by a bit of freezing rain.

And for the record, I live in Nova Scotia, we've gotten some pretty (re: really heavy) snowfalls out by my parents place. Our light little front wheel drive cars could get through almost anything with a decent set of tires on it.

I'm sorry, but this argument seems asinine. Your solution to being safer from large dangerous vehicles is to drive larger, more dangerous vehicles? We're talking about transportation, not an arms race. The larger the vehicle, the larger the moving mass. The larger the moving mass, the larger the force. The larger the force, the more destruction it can cause. Things will only get worse if everybody drives bigger vehicles.

I'm sorry if I seem a little aggresive in this post, I don't mean it to come off that way.

bodypainter

SUV? I don't hate them but I don't want one. For the most part I'm happy to let people drive whatever they want to drive, however ridiculous. I drive a very small car too. I just assume they don't see me, much as I do when I ride a motorcycle.

lpj8

Where I'm from (Tampa, Florida) there is almost no need for an SUV. The ground is flat, and most of it is road. SUVs are a status symbol here. I see college aged girls driving their escalade all around town and just wonder all the time. My good friend just recently bought a Toyota Forerunner and its really nice, but he rarely uses it for anything other than driving to work. His initial rationale for buying the car was to carry all of his DJ equipment, but I don't think he's ever carried something that couldn't have been transported in a sedan.
For other people, the SUV has replaced the Minivan A great deal of families are getting SUV whereas a few years ago they would have purchased a van.
I generally think that SUVs are less versatile than minivans because they have less room and generally cost more. But, minivans are ugly, whereas SUVs look pretty good.

MacGuyver

My feelings on SUV's...



Totally awesome to crash/total in the woods.

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cj2112

that's not my solution, but to me it seems "asinine" to whine about a class of vehicles because your vehicle is smaller. My point was not to drive bigger vehicles. my point was if you CHOOSE to drive a vehicle in which you are more likely to sustain an injury if you were to be involved in a collision w/ a large vehicle, then you know the risk you take. Your CHOICE is NOT the SUV owners responsibility.

Nimisys

this was part of CA senate summary for the recent Ca bill to repeal thier 30 year rolling exemption.

the other thing that needs brough to light is that Fuel economy and emissions are not linked. Europes high fuel economy cvars will not pass emissions here. Take the motor out of the H2, drop it in a corvette and you will see 30mpg. the H2's dismal fuel economy comes form its weight and aerodynamics of a garage door.

as for the whole SUV thing, they work for some and not for others. i got one cherokee i use as a utility vehicle (ie takig the dog to the beach, or getting stuff formt he store) and a RX-7 to drive around for fun. however i can appreciate the popularity of the SUV, as it is quite versatile.

f6twister

I drive a 2003 Toyota 4Runner and I don't know what I would do without it. My dog is a spaz when riding in a vehicle so I need to put her in a crate. That crate would never have fit in my last vehicle, a 1997 Saturn SL1. I barely fit in there! I live in Wisconsin where the snow can be very heavy. It is great for getting through the deep or heavy snow. I have a 15 gallon tank and I can go close to 300 miles on a single tank of gas. Where is the problem with that?

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Sika2

Im inclined to agree with the marq. SUV's are OK for their pupose, so long as you are not buying bigger to increase your ego.

JStrider

ive got a 93 ford explorer...

its great for moving in and out of the dorms... i can fit a fullsize couch in the back with the seats down and close the gate... and i can just pile a mountain of my stuff in the back for moving it to storage....

and i can get 9 or 10 friends, lay down the seats and fit everyone....

i go rock climbing and camping a lot (not as much as in the past... darn geographically deprived lubbock) the extra clearance is very nice for some of the dirt roads... ive never really felt like ive really needed the 4x4... but its there if i need it...


after i get out of school and start making money i'll prolly buy something a lot smaller and a lot more fun to drive...

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stevo

This thread would fit well in the Politics section.

I drive a Cherokee and what I like the most is the high clearance. I'm able to better see the road around me and having the vehicle so high off the ground makes is so much easier to change my own oil and do any maintenence work needed below. Plus, I can drive over curbs and medians if need be.

Its a matter of personal choice, and it always seems that SUV haters are the same group of people who are against the "conservative agenda" that "threatens to restrict our freedoms." Well shit, you can't have it both ways. Freedom for all or freedom for none, not just freedom for the some that agree with your views.

I plan on buying a new vehicle this coming year and its going to be a bigass pickup. Maybe a Dodge Ram 1500 (maybe the diesel 2500) or maybe that new Nissan. That truck is huge. I also plan on purchasing a boat, so you can see the need for a truck to haul it around.

Cynthetiq

my statements about SUVs are encompassed by just wanting them to be on the same CAFE standards that cars are....

a mandatory increase of 17mpg over 20 years is appalling.

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JSwiss

If I had the money I'd get an SUV, something about being up so high with the nice leather seats and all the bells and whistles. It's the same with getting a Hummer, it's not about the practicality, it's about the image

stevo

I would expect to see more fuel efficient cars (including SUV's) coming onto the market sooner than the 20yr plan if the price of oil continues to rise. Its all a matter of incentives to the manufactures and consumers, government can be a guiding hand, but no real change comes about unless it is provoked within the free market.

Boo

Remember to pack out what you pack in.

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Nimisys

gm already has the hybrid silverado out, and in 2007 it will be carried over to the Yukon/sububran family. the H2 is slated to recieve the duramax and allison as an option as well here in the next year or two. the H1 is suppose to be getitng it next year.

once hybrid technology comes to cars that people can actually buy and use, then you will start to see a decrease in oil consumption.

MSD

As long as people are willing to pay for the gas, pay the gas guzzler tax (should really be an environmental impact fee,) and learn to drive the things safely, I have no right to tell them what to drive. I may stereotype them and make jokes about them for the enjoyment of those in my car, but I'm not going to start telling people what to drive or question what they need a certain vehicle for.

LeviticusMky

I am an evironmentalist.

Fact: Global levels of Oxygen are depleting.
Fact: Global levels Carbon Dioxide are increasing.

Coal and Oil are the reasons for these two facts.

Hybrid cars are essentially the same as gasoline cars. 85% of America's electricity comes from burning coal. Electricity power from coal has essentially the same pollution capacity as gasoline burning power.

The problem isn't SUVs, the problem is the stranglehold that oil and coal has on our species. Oil and coal are essentially stored carbon from plant life eons ago. We burn it and it goes back into the atmosphere.

Until we can generate energy without burning carbon, it doesn't matter whether our cars are bigger or smaller. SUVs are simply a scapegoat. All cars pollute, SUVs just do it slightly more.

clean energy is a reality, just not economical.

Ride your bike. Or walk. Cars make you fat.

splck

City folks driving around on city streets in 4W drives always gets a laugh out of me. "Look at me, I'm driving a 4wheel drive that I'll never take off road".
Different strokes for different folks I suppose, but I still think the image is ridiculous.

As for driving around in snow,get a set of chains, learn how to use them and save a shit load of cash. A 4WD won't stop any better than a 2WD in snow.

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nice line eh?

Lyaec123

This is the worst arguement for someone to not buy an SUV ever. So you are saying that since YOU rearended him (100% in the wrong if rearending some I will remind you) that he should be buying a car to protect your dumb ass? I think not. Thats exactly the reason most people buy big/lifted trucks/SUV's. I am an attentive driver, drive well, and am fairly confident that I will not cause an accident that is my fault. Therefore if someone else runs into me and its their fault, I could give a fawk what happens to them or how much damage is done to their car, becuase it is their fault and theirs alone. Some guy rearended my dad in his Jeep at a stoplight going about 30mph and totalled out his neon whereas my dad's Jeep got a 1" scratch in the plastic bumper because the trailer reciever stopped the car before even getting to the jeep. We own 4 SUV's and leave the trailer drop balls in all of them for that express purpose. Don't rearend me and your car wont get fawked up, its that simple.