Mister Coaster

So with near record setting snowfall here in the Denver area, and us just having moved from California, we find ourselves with vehicles that simply don't cut the mustard when it comes to driving in snow. Current cars are a 2003 Jetta, and a 2001 Nissan Frontier (2WD).

We are in the market for a 4 wheel drive, mid-sized SUV or Pickup with good 2nd row seats. It also needs to fit into our rather average sized garage, so if it's a truck, it would have to be a short-bed. I'm not looking for something with a massive engine or a hemi, just a basic, somewhat fuel-friendly V-6 would be fine. If anyone has some love or horror stories, please let me know. Thanks!

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JStrider

I have a first generation(91-94) ford explorer, mines a 93, good vehicle... get about 19ish mpg on the highway and a lil less on city streets... they have their quirks but the 4.0 v6 in them will run a loong time if you take half way decent care of it, regular oil changes and no overheating. I've got some all terain tires and have driven her in snow and ice, with and without 4x4 on and have always felt safe and in control.

and the best part is you can prolly pick one up in decent shape for just a few grand...

if you think your interested in an explorer theres a great forum for them www.explorerforum.com
they can help you do all your own work on the vehicle, and they have a for sale forum, so you may be able to pick one up there as well.

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Ilow

The Toyota Tacomas have always had a reputation for rock-solid reliability and i did their quad cab model. I have a friend who has a Chevy Colorado (sort of appropriate) with the 5 cyl. engine that he reports gets decent milage has plenty of power and doesn't break down. If you are only concerned with the snow, modest size and reasonable milage, you could always get a Subaru or some similar SUV with AWD. A Subaru, especially with studded tires will never get stuck in snow.

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Mister Coaster

Subaru, eh? Funny you mention those, for 2 reasons...

1. As soon as we told her, my wife's good friend said we WILL buy a Subaru. Everyone in Colorado has a Subaru. And we don't want to prove her right.

2. After snowstorm #2 here a few weeks ago, we couldn't get out of our driveway. Was it because of too much snow? Maybe. But what really caused us to be unable to get out was the fact that someone was stuck in the snow, on the street, directly at the end of our driveway. It was an AWD Subaru.

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JStrider

one thing that can make a huge difference is the tires, maybe you should try actual snow tires on your current vehicles...

even a 4x4 with street tires wont do too well in snow/ice
at the very least make sure your tires have a M+S designation on the sidewall. to get that designation they have to meet certain tread pattern requirements that help provide traction in mud and snow.

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shakran

Not buying a good car because you want to prove someone wrong is a bloody stupid thing to do, to be honest.

If you don't know how to drive it, you can get ANYTHING stuck. If the conditions are bad enough, you can get anything stuck, unless you go out and buy a tank. A subaru with good tires is every bit as good as just about anything else out there. but 4wd isn't going to help you if you don't learn how to drive in the slick stuff, and being from Cali, you probably don't know how yet.

BadNick

They are kind of quirky looking and thus probably one of those "you love it or you hate it" kind of vehicles, but I really like it ...the Toyota FJ Cruiser. After I drove it I liked it even more than I thought. I'm still shopping and won't buy until Spring but they're on my short list.

BigTruck1956

I have a '97 4x4 toytoa tacoma and i love it. Its got good ground clearance, the V6 will haul it up and down the sierras and its gets low 20s for mileage on the freeway. Its pretty reliable, and I take it to the snow multiple times each winter and have never had a problem getting stuck.

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powerclown

Honda CRV
Ford Edge
GMC Acadia

I drove the CRV and it is a ton of car for the money. $22k for AWD but its a 4-cylinder engine only. Super refined and smooth, looks and drives like a $40k car. 30 mpg highway. The Ford Edge and GMC Acadia also look interesting: both brand new, AWD, V6, midsize suvs for under $30k.

Ilow

Shakran, you are a wise (and quick) man. You totally beat me to the exact points I was going to make. JStrider makes a good point as well. Actually even the M&S designation isn't always enough, as i understand that the actual compound is different on snow tires to allow them to remain a little more supple and less hockey-puck-like in the cold. As i said in my 1st post, studded tires really sway the odds in your favor when battling the elements. BadNick, i also kind of like the FJ. I'm not always a big fan of retro styling, but i think they got that one right and there are some nice features on that one.

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IanSturgill

a 4.3 liter gm blazer/jimmy would do you just fine, and cheap, run forever. Just buy som 235/75/15's with a good tread, and you will be fine. 18 mpg avg. Or maybe a Crew-Cab gm with a 4.8.

powerclown

He said he wanted a basic v6 suv that'll fit in his garage, not a group A rallycar.
Aren't studded tires illegal on most public roads anyway...tears the roads up.

cyrnel

Will this become either of your primary vehicles or mostly a snow warrior?

If it's a daily driver I'd probably stay with an AWD car. If it's a 2nd vehicle then the extra clearance of a real 4x4 can make a big difference when conditions are bad. They just aren't quite as friendly the rest of the time.

Jeep Cherokees aren't modern but they are about a dollar.

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Mister Coaster

Wow, lots of good input here folks:

shakran: I never said I was 100% against a Subaru, it was just odd that we have already had the conversation with her friend, then seeing one stuck, then getting the suggestion. I'm not against them at all. And although I'm from sunny SoCali, I'm quickly learning the tricks for snow driving, mostly out of necessity, lol.

ILow: I was thinking about snow tires, but my uncle who lives here in the Denver area says it simply doesn't snow enough here normally to make them worth the investment. This season is the most snow Denver has seen in like 20+ years, so figure that into the equasion.

cyrnel: We haven't decided yet wether or not this will be my primary driving car, or a bad weather 2nd vehicle. Mrs. Coaster would like us to buy a new one and have it be a primary car for me. Of course that means a $25,000+ investment, and although we can afford it, my conservative side winces at something like that. We moved to CO to get out of debt, not take on more. I like the idea of getting something older but well maintained and using it as a road warrior, but we have only a 2 car garage.

Decisions, decisions... Keep the feedback coming!

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cyrnel

I've lost count how many times I've seen a couple buy one of these for the guy and he ends up back in the "car." Even when it's old, so long as it's reliable and the heater works. 4wd and some clearance provides a great sense of self-reliance. One or two modifications is usually all it takes. FWIW.

If you go with something used, check with enthusiast forums. They're a great source of info on specific vehicles, especially when you start asking about options, reilability, red-flags, and suitability.

As for the tires, like llow mentioned, go for an M&S rating. It isn't exotic. Many tires you might think of as standard or all-season have it, and while the effectiveness varies it can make a world of difference in the slippery stuff. It seems likely to me that any 4wd you buy near Denver will already have a set.

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There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

shakran

They're illegal in a lot of places but I believe they're allowed in some states that don't do much for ice/snow removal.

Another option is Blizzaks. Those damn tires are unreal. They actually grip ice. I drove on 'em a couple of winters ago and was absolutely stunned at how much extra grip I had. Unfortunately, if you drive 'em on dry pavement you wear that grippy layer away really fast and then they're just regular tires. so unless you have a dedicated snow-busting car or you live somewhere like Alaska, they really don't make a whole lot of sense unfortunately.

I would recommend snow tires. All season tires aren't all that good anywhere. You can get deals from most of the big tire stores where you get a cheapassed set of steel wheels wrapped in winter rubber. Throw 'em on in the winter, then swap 'em for the good wheels in the summer.

Cycler

Good suggestions on the Toyotas. I have a 1982 4x4 and my Dad has a 1994 4Runner both have been put through various torture tests (both are virtually stock too) and still are going strong. My truck and my Dad's are both headed up to 200,000 miles.

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powerclown

So true. They really do provide tremendous amounts of traction in snow. I once had a rear-drive z28 camaro that was undriveable in any amount of snow with the stock low-profile tires. I would get stuck simply driving away from stoplights, the back end would just go sideways. The most important thing in that car, in snow, was never to stop because once you did you were stuck. I put blizzaks on and it was a night and day improvement. It was almost weird how the car suddenly had traction and felt safe to drive again. If money were tight, blizzaks would be my number one option.

ziadel

ya know, in a car with a real 4wd system, does anyone else here feel that you are really asking for it by powering it by a v6?

that a lot of work for a middle-ish size engine to do.

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lt1s10

I'd say it all depends on the rest of the vehicle too. Gearing, torque curve, and tires are just as important as displacement or cylinder count. I haven't spent any winters in really hellacious snow places like Weyburn, Saskatchewan (My friend from here always makes fun of me when it starts to get cold because for him it's still picnic weather). But with what I've experienced in Boulder, CO and Yakima, WA the trucks I've owned have been good to me. Never got stuck in anything/anywhere on pavement and pretty decent on the trail too.

I've owned 3 and seen many Toyota 22R powered trucks and 4runners that refuse to die. And go damn near anywhere and maybe more places then a full-size V8 powered truck or suv if the trails are tight.

I've also owned and worked on quite a few 4.3L S10s, Blazers, and Chevy-powered Jeeps. All more then capable and reliable with the "we cut off two cylinders from the SBC" V6 motor.

I like the V8s too. Heck my daily driver right now is a TPI 350 in a 93 S10. But unless its a conversion the V8 powered vehicles tend to be larger too so it may be harder to park if space is at a premium. Especially if you're only going to use it in the winter.

powerclown

Its a good point about a small engine and awd.
I've owned a few awd jeep cherokee's with both inline and v6s and they did fine.
When you look at the specs for later model v6s in awd suvs youre talking about 210-250hp and low to mid 200s in ft lb of torque, which are the same specs as v8s from the 70s and 80s.
They sound like crap and are slow as hell but they seem to work ok, at least on the street.

shakran

agreed, powerclown. And since you don't need to go fast in the snow anyway, being slow as hell isn't such a bad thing

desal75

I'm a car salesman and my best advice would be to buy a set of good snow tires.



Didn't see that one comeing did you?

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kurty[B]

On the Jetta, (if you want to keep it), throw snow tires on for the winter (no need for studs on the front range, they are just annoying). A 2wd Front axle vehicle will do pretty damn good in the snow with snowtires, unless the depth of the snow is just too much. My suggestion still, is after getting snowtires to go out to a parking lot and force yourself into slides to get used to slipping and sliding without other cars around.

The 2wd Frontier... is that rwd? If it is, that's about the worst combon for winter driving. Even when I had snow tires I would spin all across the road doing basic manuevers. You would have to dump sandbags or lots of weight in the bed to try and keep that to a minimum.

My suggestion, get a second set of tires for the Jetta (wheels too if you can afford it), a summer set, and winter set. And get a 4wd vehicle (I'm currently driving a 4wd Nissan Xterra, and absolutely love it in the snow). Otherwise a extended cab 4wd Toyota Truck is an excellent option. If during the snowstorms you'll only be using one vehicle, then get rid of the Nissan, and pick up a 4wd vehicle, put some decent all-seasons on that, and leave the tires on the Jetta.

Good luck, and send some of your front range snow up to the mountains for us!

Mister Coaster

Good God, I wish I could. I suppose getting a bad winter under our belts is a good thing, but this is beyond anything we expected. Yeah, the Nissan is rear wheel drive, and I'm getting pretty good at controlling slides. The Jetta actually does well like you said, it's the ground clearance that bites. She already tore out the oil pan on a chunk of ice in the middle of the road.

Status Report:
We had big plans to go out this past Sunday and get some serious comparisons going, test drives, tire kicking and so on. We had an all-day sitter for Baby Coaster, and plenty of places lined up to see. Of course nobody told us about the Colorado blue laws that force all car dealerships to be closed on Sundays. Whatsupwitdat?

So we ended up going out yesterday WITH the baby (which we knew would limit our time and test drive ability). We hit up Toyota and Nissan...

Toyota... Well we know they are dependable, well liked by owners, and are overall good cars. But we didn't like them, none of them. It was mostly the interriors, they all seemed cramped and would quickly run out of space once the baby seat was in the 2nd row. OK, we did like the Sequoia, but with a base price of $40K, that was more than we want to spend, plus it would be a tight squeeze in the garage. They had a used '01 for about $22K with leather, but it wasn't cleaned up yet. Potential, but I dummo, I didn't really want something THAT big.

Nissan... Accross the board we liked every comparible model of Nissan better than the Toyotas. They all had better interrior space, virtually identical specs, and a lower price. I think I remember these same findings in 2001 when I got my current truck. The Frontier double cab was roomy in the back, but I think Mrs. Coaster has her heart set on an SUV. The Xterra was nice, but just a bit too small. Then we saw the Pathfinder... very impressive. Apparently they really revamped this line in '05, and the changes are all for the better. It doesn't look that big from the outside, but interrior space was nice, even has a 3rd row seats (small, but useable). And it starts about 10,000 less than the Sequoia. They also had a used '06 for 26K, even better. So far the Pathfinder is the frontrunner. I'm going to do some research and see what kind of a deal / real market value we can find on a used '06 or '05.

I hate car shopping, and I refuse to get ripped off. And we still need to look at other models, but at least we already found something we think we like.

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desal75

SUV's are extremely nice but the bigger the vehicle the harder it will be to control in the snow. That being said, the Pathfinder isn't overly large.

You might want to stop by a Subaru dealership and look at a B9 Tribeca or even a Chevy Equinox. They now have a 100,000 mile powertrain warranty.

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kurty[B]

I hate that law. Can't even buy liquor on Sunday?

The Pathfinder sounds like a good deal? What dealership did you go to to check the vehicles out at? I bought my Xterra at a John Elway dealership (I heard they're going to be changing their names soon). Personally, this was the best experience I had with a dealership. Did not try upselling, or nothing, and were fair-priced, and more than willing to work with me.

laconic1

Unfortunately the side roads have really been bad this year. I've lived in Colorado pretty much my whole life and I don't ever remember it being this bad. Sucks about the oil pan. As far as the blue laws, when I worked at a dealership I actually liked the blue laws because it meant I was guaranteed one day a week off, no matter what my boss wanted to do.

Mister Coaster

kurty[B]: Yeah, thats where we went. All John Elway dealerships have indeed changed names to "Go." However, I have heard from a coworker a horror story about them, so we were immediately skeptical. But now you make the 3rd positave story about them. I still need to research other places and prices, but I did really like the service at Go Nissan. We were at the dealers that are on Arapahoe, east of I-25.

crazybill, yeah thats what the salesmen were saying about Sundays, guarantees them at least a day off, lol.

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desal75

Here in New York we don't have any laws that prohibit dealerships being open Sundays but as a salesman who puts in 56 hours a week and frequently comes in on Wednesdays (my other day off) I do like the fact that we ar closed on Sundays.

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