rsl12

I've been told that beginning lifters can work out the entire body 3 days a week, so that's what I've been doing (I've been training for about a year). But I've also been told that, once you reach a certain level, you should think about splitting up the program into different body parts. When do you know you've reached that level? When do you know that you're no longer a beginner?

If it makes any difference, my goal all this time has been to pass a physical fitness test that's a prerequisite for entrance to the fire academy (CPAT, for those who know). The focus has been on power and endurance--carrying heavy equipment, knocking down doors, that kind of thing. The test is tomorrow--hopefully after that, my goal will be to stay in shape as a firefighter!

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jRuntlets

I've always lifted different parts of the body every day, by advice of my trainer(s). Except abs, I do a little bit of those every day and have one day of just abs. My split up goes:
Monday: Chest/Triceps (abs)
Tuesday: Shoulders (abs)
Wednesday: Abs
Thursday: Legs (abs)
Friday: Back/Biceps (abs)

I also do cardio every day, even though it's not totally nessicary. I enjoy the good sweat!

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BAMF

My goal is fitness/toned. I have no interest in bulk (fat or muscle). I am at my ideal weight, and I go to the gym once a week, golf once a week, volleyball once a week. I also eat healthy. There is not a single thing I would change aobut my routine or myself (except, I could be a bit more modest). In other words, I am perfect (in my opinion), and I do not care if other people have a different idea of perfection.

trickyy

i think you can do whatever you want, although in your case there are obviously certain exercises to suit your needs.
personally, i never liked doing the same thing 3 times a week. working the full body made me get tired faster.
i have always preferred doing something like jRuntlets suggests. you can do more types of shoulder exercises, for example, if you spend a solid hour on them instead of doing one or two within the course of a full workout.

rsl12

ummmmmmm thanks for....being a role model? it doesn't help me much though--any advice?

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noahfor

You might be overtraining if you are working out your whole body three times a week. It depends on what your workouts are like.

Nimetic

I think it depends on your own recovery periods.

For most of us... I think 3 times a week has got to be rubbish.

Here's my logic:

1) When I started lifting I was sore for 2weeks. (Do beginners really recover faster?)

2) Adults take a while to hit peak muscle soreness after a workout. For myself it
has always taken 36-48 hours. Allowing a similar period for recovery and
rebuilding/growth implies that I need 4 days between workouts for each
body part.

Ok. Logic isn't necessarily reality. For example, the exercises that my physio gives me (twice a day.. high volume) also seem to build muscle rather well. And in science - nature is often contrary to expectations.

So my thought is... if you are aiming for strength, if you enjoy training, if you understand the muscle groups, and you have time to go to the gym more often, then I'd go with a two way split, right from the start.

Quite simply... at no point in my life did I truly recover fast enough for 3 times/week unless I severly limited my lifting in each session.

Rodney

Three full, identical workouts a week is okay for the first few months. Your weigts for each exercise go up because 1) you're learning better how to do the exercises, 2)your body is learning how to better utilize your muscles, and 3) maybe your body builds a few extra capillaries for blood supply. But you're not really gaining muscle.

I think the 3-time-a-week identical workout is a great way to start; I know that I did. When you do know you're no longer a beginner? When the three-time-weekly routine is easy to do but you're not making quick progress anymore. At that point, your body has learned how to use its muscles more efficiently, and it's content and isn't going to grow much more on that routine. Time then to shock it with heavier, more intense work. And you cannot work each body part that way 3 times a week.

Personally, I'd say that after three months, max, you're ready for a split routine. I would go to a Mon/Tues and Thurs/Fri split. And if you're still sore on Thursday, slide it a day. You don't gain much by working a muscle that's still sore.

rsl12

Based on advice, mostly from exrx.net, my program is a full-body program consisting of one exercise (1 set, 10 reps) from each of the following muscle groups: quads/glutes, hamstrings, calves, chest, back, shoulders, biceps, lower back, abs. The program doesn't get stale--whenever I stop making progress on a particular muscle group, I just change the exercise (for example, for chest, I might change from bench press to fly).

In addition, I'm doing a good amount of cardio stuff 4-5 days/week.

Nimetic and Rodney both seem to think that 48 hrs isn't enough of a recovery period for your muscles, but everything I've read (on the internet) suggests otherwise:

From exRx.net:

This suggests that novices obtain maximum gains with about 48-hrs as a rest period, while more advanced lifter get maximum gains with 72-hrs as a rest period.

From a discussion on a Washington University study:

So after 36 hours for experienced athletes, your body is pretty much done recovering.

Pretty much everything I read says 48 hours (a little more or less) is what you need for recovery. I guess the advantage doing a split program rather than a full body one is that you get to go to the gym and do slightly less work each time (1/2 your body), though the disadvantage is that you end up going to the gym 4 days, rather than 3 days a week. Is there more to it than this?

PS. I passed my test!

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thingstodo

You can keep doing what you are doing and be fine. Obviously, you hit your goal and passed the test!! Congrats.

If you decided to split groups, you might go three times a week but work different areas only once per week. I've done that for several years. Keep at the cardio - it is very important.

There are a million opinions out there. Your goals drive what you do.

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alec

my two cents: i split pretty much right off the get go when i started working out.

i think for some, it may depend on gym access; I can go everyday because i live close to my gym but others may not. so if its a hassle, doing a full body workout 3 or 4 times a week may be good, or going 2 to 4 times a week and hitting one major section each time (legs, mid-section, upperbody) is more realistic. i try to go 4-5 times a week, hitting one to two muscle groups each time, and spending roughly 30 to 45 minutes on each muscle group.

Suave

I prefer split. I did "full" workouts 3 times a week for almost a year, and I got very little out of it, and I pretty much hated it. Working out every other day while switching off between two different workouts is more enjoyable for me, and I think it's better for your recovery time, since the muscles you work in one workout might be required as stabilizers for the second workout.

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Nimetic

Very logical... I'm tired (3am) so I'll try a quick one.

The recovery bit seems to depend a lot on how hard you hit the muscles, as well as genetics. In my case, I do a fair amount of sets. Probably 6-9 sets per muscle group spread over two or more exercises.

This is high but not extreme. I'm going for volume and am somewhat of a traditionalist. Additionally, I like to use multiple angles and feel that it takes a few sets to get the blood going and the mental intensity up. I enjoy the feeling of exhaustion also. I spend around 2-2.5hrs in each workout - and generally have no fixed cycle. I simply avoid retraining an area until 1day after the muscle soreness has gone.

The equipment supplier "Nautilus", and Mike Mentzer, promoted a one set approach. This is not really mainstream in my view, but has been re-popularized somewhat in the last couple of years. It's probably good for starters. Dunno.

Most pure strength trainers seem to do less sets than me also. With lower reps. They concentrate on basic movements also. Squats, bench and rows. Stuff like that.

Here's another thought. Most of the serious physique trainers that I know are keen on the one bodypart per day routine. So they do 5-6 days per week but have very short workouts.

aceventura3

Splitting is pointless unless you are a pro. People who workout in the morning and then in the afternoon and are doing that 6 day a week need to split. Average people need to work their major muscle groups everyworkout.

Even if you worked your chest everyday, unless you are working it to "true failure", your not hurting anything.

The rule I follow: If a body part is sore, don't work it that day.

aceventura3

I had a discussion with a trainer. I said if I were African and I ran 26 miles everyday, because it was my job. I would be able to run the distance day after day, my body would adapt.

But, if you trained me to run a marathon, you would have me running short runs, medium runs, long runs, up-hill, down-hill, weight traing, monitoring my heart rate, my diet, the color of my pee, resting for recovery at all the right times, etc. and then I bet I would still get passed by the 60 year-old guy in the red-white-and blue headband at mile 24.

rsl12

aceventura: that was my understanding too--that splitting was really for people who want to be in the gym more than 3 days/week.

In any case, I've gotten lazy in the last month, now that the test is done. Also, I've got some pain in my shoulder (maybe bursitis?) so I'm taking it a bit easier these days. So I'm still doing my full-body workout (minus one shoulder) about 3 days/week, just because I can't do any more. Thanks everyone for the advice!

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Nimetic

Your first point (every day) doesn't appear to fit with your last one (don't work body part if sore).

Can you explain further. I'm normally sore the next day... and the following day after each workout. Are you suggesting lower weights/reps or something.

How did you reach this viewpoint. It doesn't seem to be a mainstream one. How hard do you train anyways?

aceventura3

I'm 45, and have been workingout since grade school (mostly for sports when I was in school, but it turned into a life long habit). I can bench 365 and run 3 miles in 25 minutes. I "workout" (get my heart rate up for 30 minutes or more, and do strength work) everyday.

If you workout regularlly, at some point your body will adjust to your routine and you stop getting sore. If I do a 4 mile run in 40 minutes, I don't get sore. If I pick a day and run 8 miles, I get sore. If I do a 3 mile run, with 10, 8, 9 minute splits I don't get sore. If I tried to run 8, 7.5, 8, I would get sore. If I do a "maintenance" run, I can run again the next day, no problem. If I "test my limit" on a day, I don't run the next.

If I do my "max" benchpress routine, working with heavy weight to failure, I may not do it again for about a week. I also do different benchpress routines, occasionally, light weight/max reps, medium weight/high speed, different grips, etc., not all of they routines will make me sore the next day. Same applies to my other excercises.

I rarely spend more than 20 minutes per day lifting, genetically strenght is not my problem. To make the most of my time on a normal day. I start with a light weight to get loose, make sure I am set up correctlly, test full range of motion, etc.. Then set two I go to a weight were I can do 10 to 12 reps, set three I add weight to do about 5 to 6 reps, set 4 I add weight to do about 3 reps, set 5, take weight of to about 5 to 6 reps, final set I take weight of and do about 10 reps., As I get fatiged I really concentrate on full range of motion and control. I don't take much rest between sets, this also helps keep my heart rate up (cardio is my weakness, and I use a heart rate monitor). I mostly do excercises that work multiple muscle groups at once. What I do works for me, I don't suggest orther do what I do or that it will work best for them.

Another example about soreness, I used to play basketball a few times a week, never got sore after playing. Now when I play, I get sore, because I don't play regullarly. Another example; I don't play golf, but I went to a driving range with a buddy and hit a bucket of balls - I got sore the next day, he didn't but he never goes to the gym but does play alot of golf.

My goal is just to be healthy and I enjoy running and lifting, I don't want to be a pro athlete, or Mr. America, I push hard but I am not over doing it.

Martian

I'm too lazy to read all the responses here right now, so hopefully I'm not repeating any information.

The short answer is that you're ready to split up your workout whenever you feel ready to do so. How you split it up is entirely at your discretion, although if you have literally no clue it might not hurt to consult someone who knows (I'll be happy to work with you in designing a regimen if you'd like, as I'm sure many others here would).

Just a few things to keep in mind :

-It's a bad idea to work the same muscle group two days in a row. That's part of the reasoning for the 3 day thing; it gives you time to heal. Working out actually damages your body and it's the healing process that makes it stronger. This generally takes 24-48 hours. Working the same muscle group again within that period will at best deny you the full benefit of the workout and at worst could end up tearing a muscle or ligament, which will set you back greatly. The exception to this rule is your abdominals, which are generally safe to work daily because you're not bulking them; they aren't nearly so damaged and therefore don't need as long to heal.

-Also, balance is important. I know it's great to think of having rock hard abs or huge guns, but if you've got gigantic biceps and no pecs, you're going to look funny. Same goes for if your upper body is overdeveloped and your lower body not at all. With that in mind, it is okay to put an emphasis on muscle groups that are more important to you. Just don't do it to the exclusion of other parts of your body.

-Makesure you include cardio in your regimen. Working out increases muscle mass, which means you need more oxygen. You therefore need a stronger heart to deliver that oxygen. There's a reason that the big pro body builders suffer a disproportionate number of heart attacks.

-While not necessary, it's good practice to design two or more routines that give you the full scope of the workout and switch them up to keep it interesting. In the same vein, if you're working more than one specific muscle group in a specific day, you may have an easier time of developing a good routine if you create a pattern, such as top to bottom (so on an upper day, you'd go traps-pecs-biceps-triceps-lats-abs). This is how I do it; I split my workout in to uppder body and lower body and on both I work top to bottom. Abs are included in both and I do both 3x a week, alternating mon-sat and taking sunday off.

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thingstodo

I can't agree more with the rest between lifts for a muscle group.

The whole point of lifting is to break down the muscle. If you do that, it needs time to recover. The possible soreness is quite different from just using a muscle for the first time.

I'm usually a little sore two days after every workout (lifting). That's because I change things up with different movements or a different sequence. For example, I begin chest with flat bench one week, incline the next, flys or crossovers the next....you get it. Also, I try to work two groups each session. I find that a push and pull the same day do fine, such as biceps and chest or back and triceps. This also allows me to maximize my time. That usually takes about 45 minutes. Not sure how someone can get a good lift routine done in 20 minutes, even with only one body part, but whatever.

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