jnthnlllshprd

Hey folks.. just seeking some advice again..

Three weeks ago we picked up a new waitress at work. I saw her application and insisted that we hire her (GM is spineless; no problem). She's nearly my age, a nice chocolate complexion, very short and fit.. very well-endowed overall. We hit it off quickly; we both served in the Corps in '08 and got discharged within a year for medical reasons, and we spent a lot of time talking about it. We've spent hours talking every day, as long as it's slow at work. I already knew that she was married, and it wasn't long before I had to bring it up because she was coming on to me pretty quick. We talked about it like adults, openly acknowledged that she is commited, but agreed that even though she is married, we can still goof around.

She works Sunday and Monday, which are my days off and very slow nights in a strip club. So, since we met I've been going in on my days off, buying drinks and having a good time together with her. We talk nonstop. She constantly amazes me with her wit and attitude. Most beautiful smile.. loves to dance.. She's just one of 'those' chicks, ya know? We sit in the VIP section and mess around a lot, just acting like a couple of dim-witted lovers or something. Wasn't long before I started to miss her during the week, and feel jealous when she's around another guy. I can see in her face that when I'm messing around with another chick (it's a strip club; that's how we pass the time), she gets pouty.

So, last night we started kissing. Just prior to this we'd had another discussion about her marriage. She's happy with her husband, she says, but she knows things are heating up between us. I, damn-near-drunk, told her that that was all fine and dandy, but before she leaves work, she was gonna have to give me a kiss. Soon after, we're going at it in the breakroom.

At the end of the night, I walked her out, but didn't step out with her because her husband was waiting to pick her up. We kissed a few more times, and said goodnight.

I know what you're thinking and you're right: I'm a damn fiend. I know it. I just can't help myself. She likes me, and I like her. Quite a lot. I know how it feels when someone does that with your woman, and I feel like a complete jackass for doing it to someone behind their back. Even worse, I'm worried that she'll let something slip about us and get hurt, because I don't personally know the guy. He might do something like that. Pressing things even harder is the fact that everyone at work took notice of us on day one, and all it would take is for him to make a suprise visit and then somebody let the cat out of the bag.

I just want to know what you guys/girls might do if you were in our situation. Please don't go off on me, I already know it's wrong in the first place. Do I end it now, or let it ride? Do I just avoid taking it any further? What the hell do I do?

Baraka_Guru

Either a) ask her to leave her husband or b) stop "goofing around" with her.

The only exception is if she's in an open relationship.

/thread

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

jnthnlllshprd

I'm asking what you would do, not what I should do, and giving me two choices makes it seem like you don't know what you would do, which is how I feel. I just need to hear from somebody with a similar experience.

Manic_Skafe

Honestly, I'd probably do exactly as you are now. It couldn't be any more likely that all of this will blow up in your face but you seem to know what you're getting yourself into. I wish you luck and hope that it won't be too rough on you when it comes time to face the inevitable: she's not yours, you're a home wrecker and whether it leads to termination of employment, a slap on the wrist or nothing at all, you've probably sullied your reputation at work.

Good luck and cheers to not giving a fuck.

Also, while neither of us were married, I've been in a very similar situation before. She was dating an idiot (who also worked with us) and I couldn't have been any less happy with my partner. Things worked out well in the end and we were together for years.

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"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

Baraka_Guru

That's what I'd do: one of the two choices.

If I could see a future with her, I'd ask her to leave her husband.

If it was just for kicks, I'd stop goofing around with her.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Cimarron29414

I can't tell you what I would do, because I would not have placed myself in the situation in the first place.

Mankind has GOT to regain respect for one another. "I want it" is how apes behave.

Since your hypothetical means I have to have already made the mistakes you've made, I would immediately end it with her. Tell her you were drunk and made a mistake putting that kind of pressure on her. Tell her you insist she stay true to her marriage and you will no longer offer any temptation.

Pray that when you are married, there are people like me around your wife rather than people like you. (sorry, that was harsh.)

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Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

Iliftrocks

I think you are trying to feel better about it, by finding someone to commiserate with. Whether that statement is wrong or not, you need to either break it off with her, or keep going and accept the lumps when they come.

If you want to know what I would do, then my instinct says to run, get another job, and hope the husband doesn't find me with a gun in one hand, and a bottle of Jack in the other. I've been attracted to married women, but I've made sure not to flirt and carry on with them, regardless of how they flirted with me. That's scary shit, dude.

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bill hicks - "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out."

cj2112

This is a no brainer. End. It. Now. If you choose not to end it, there will be drama, and it will have an impact on your job. Don't shit where you eat.

You can help yourself, you can control your desires.

I've been in a similar situation, I ended it when it started to move past some innocent flirting. She moved on to the next guy at work. When the husband found out, the guy and girl went to the hospital, the husband went to jail, and the kids went to foster care. Sounds like a great time, huh?

girldetective

Simply let me repeat from your OP:

I already know it's wrong

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As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons...be cheerful; strive for happiness - Desiderata

Punk.of.Ages

I've been in a very similar situation. In 2005 I was working at a restaurant as a cook. One day a new server was hired. Her name was Jen...

Jen and I didn't really hit it off at first. We weren't really each others' type. Plus, she had a fiance. Over time we did start being friends, though.

Now, I'm not going to go over the details of how it got to this point (that would make for a very long post), but soon enough we were hanging out pretty much every day. I found myself going into work on my days off and keeping her company. We would spend entire nights driving around and just talking. She eventually ended spending way more time with me on the average day than she spent with her fiance.

It didn't take very long for me to realize that I liked this girl. Once I realized it, I was very upfront about it, as well. I let her know how I felt and it came as kind of a shock to her. It's not, necessarily, that she wasn't starting to feel the same way about me, it was that she had a fiance and there was no way she was going to be dishonest and unfaithful to him. I understood that, but it didn't change my feelings and it didn't change the dangerous waters we were treading on.

Within a year or so's time, her and her fiance ended up splitting up. Not because of me, but because their relationship wasn't exactly a healthy one (which should be pretty evident based on my little story above). Much to my dismay at the time, this did not open the doors up for me. She had just gotten out of a long relationship and didn't want to get involved with anyone else for a while. Then, eventually, through some pressure I put on her consciously, and some pressure I put on her without meaning to, we ended up dating. Needless to say, it ended badly, she went back to her old fiance briefly, and I gave up. We didn't talk for two years...

Jen and I have been seeing each other for over a year, now. We got back in contact with each other last February, we worked things out, we went through some new things with the rehashing of old feelings, and finally the timing was right. I fully intend to spend the rest of my life at Jen's side...

Finally, the point: If you think this chick is worth it, fight for it. Fight hard for it, but know the boundaries. You will have to be incredibly patient and you will have to realize that your patience may never pay off...

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Cimarron29414

POA - I would agree with you were it not for the whole "marriage contract" part. The reason I say that is because marriage contracts are expensive to dissolve. With a fiance, you break up and give him back his pledge tshirt. With a husband, you hire attorneys and give them your 401K so that you can keep 50% of the equity in your home. It's just a whole different scale. I think it's pretty shitty to do that to another person (the husband) - meaning, to put such immense pressure/temptation on his wife.

Also, it doesn't sound like your relationship with Jen was romantic prior to her breaking it off with said fiance.

Having said all of that, the husband is "pimping" his wife off at a strip club, so it's hard to say how healthy/normal/stable their marriage is.

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Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

Manic_Skafe

Thanks for sharing that, POA.

I don't think you guys are giving the OP enough credit, he didn't come here for any easy way out of what he's gotten himself into. He knows what he's doing is wrong, he seems to have grasped the ramifications and is looking for some solace in the stories of others who have also followed their hearts regardless of the consequence. I'd like to hope we see more like him around here.

The bit quoted above is just plain ridiculous and proves you to be incapable of grasping this situation realistically and impartially. While the OP is behaving in an irresponsible and careless manner, he doesn't owe her or their marriage a thing. The only real damage he's doing is to himself and his only mistake is in involving himself with her when his time and affections would be better spent elsewhere.

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"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

Jetée

I don't know why, but I feel very weird pressure to reply to this snippet first.
In the reality of the sense, you're right. He (Jonathan?) doesn't need to shield his actions from these two almost-unknowns who entered into his life. They're a random occurrence of people we all encounter throughout our life. They may quickly pass us by.

But, in the overall sense of how we choose to comport ourselves, he is bound by the "social contacts" we all implicitly regulate and use in our daily lives. Some have no written rules, some are just wise street sayings, as illustrated above already, but the point has already been made.

He's doing the wrong thing. Whether or not he seeks to make it right through a dramatic confrontation of sorts, or an explanation of the mistake of crossed boundaries, and subsequent detachment he may need to employ alongside his co-worker until one or the other moves on, I cannot say.

The choice is up to you, not us. Which leads me to this...
While I do recognize some persons need more of a relatable encounter to aid their own dilemmas, in that it is a revealing cathartic emotions, and perhaps much more, I still find it very shaky.

Since your problem is immediate, I agree with Baraka_Guru's sentiments, along with others, that all you have at this point is two choices. As I see it, after a bit of thinking on your part as well, you can either pursue, or abandon.

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As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

Wes Mantooth

Yeah, I might put some thought into weather or not you want to get involved with something like this, it can get a little ugly and the consequences are worth thinking about. But in the end if you feel good about it I guess I'd just say roll with it, either she leaves him for you, the whole thing just falls apart or you walk away from it.

I'll give you an example. When I was in college I hit it off with a girl who worked behind the counter of the gas station I'd applied to that for summer work. She was just really awesome in so many ways, doldrums of a small town summer had taken hold and a hot pot smoking beer drinking buddy was just the thing I needed...of course she was also married. We didn't do much that summer except for meet up after work for a drink (or 10) or smoke a joint in my backyard, the problem was we talked a lot during those times and really got close. That fall we broke into a summer camp, got high on the wharf and well...you can only imagine what happened next. The thing was is we never really developed a relationship, she went home to her husband afterwards and I went home, just crazy winter afternoon, post work, boot knocking...and in all honesty it was great! We pulled it off for the remainder of that winter and just started drifting apart come spring, I'd met a girl at school I really liked, her husband knocked her up and it just ended. I don't think he ever found out and as far as know (talking to mutual friends, it turned out we knew a lot of the same people in high school) they are still together and doing great...so what does that mean? I really don't know. Is something wrong just because its wrong? Is it just a natural side effect of human nature? Why can't I put into words what I really want to say?

Yet now that I think about it I could give you probably 50 examples from my own life or from stories my friends have told of things ending really, REALLY badly, like pictures at 11 badly. So I don't know, take the above for what its worth I guess.

Anyway in the end it just is what it is. You either roll with it and hope the drama train doesn't come chugging down the tracks in the form of an angry husband wielding a shot gun, let it fizzle on its own or end it and move on, what else can you really do?

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GreyWolf

Stop. Now. When you include in your post, "I know it's wrong", then you have your answer.

When and if she is available, go for it. Otherwise, you're a cretin who's screwing up 2 other people's lives for his own purposes. Your rationalisation that he's "pimping" her off in a strip joint is just that... rationalisation of your own wrong actions. Don't go there.

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Iliftrocks

Also look up alienation of affection, and see if it applies where you live. You could be sued for all you've got for getting between married people.

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bill hicks - "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out."

cj2112

The OP didn't come here wanting some sort of a group hug. He asked what we would do. Many of us told him. If he wanted solace in the stories of others, I think he would have asked.

Sue

I know what I would tell the OP what he should do, but threads like these rarely (to me) seem to make any bit of difference as to the end decision for the OP.

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Cynthetiq

I think you should bang her like a screen door in a hurricane.

Cuz I don't have those kinds of morals or values, I live vicariously via other people who like to create their own drama.

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Manic_Skafe

Contradicts his first post a bit but that's what I'm following.

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"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

cj2112

You're right, I totally missed that part of the op. I apologize.

dlish

i'd have to disagree with you strongly there sue. The latest proof if this is the member that was hooking up with his sister in law.

he's now drawn the line in the sand. I'd like to think that a lot of that decisionwould be from direct result advice given here.

jonathan, if you keep doing what you're doing, your wish may come true. she'll end up single. these sorts of stories never end nicely, so if you keep it up, you'll have a soon-to-be single ex-wife who's willing to cheat on their partner. who's to say you wouldnt be next she cheated on?

ditch her dude.

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Willravel

Ask her if she's willing to leave her husband. If the answer is no (and if she's not in an open marriage), then just leave... aww shit.
Baraka_Guru wins again. I'm off to watch Baraka_Hulu. I hope the paintball episode of Community is still up.

MrFriendly

I'm not going to lie. This is the kind of honesty that will make you go a big rubbery one.

If I was in this guys shoes, I'd be amazed that a woman is taking this kind of interest me, convince myself that I could make it work, and watch it all blow up in my face.

At the end of it all, I'll most feel even more alone than I did before, and utterly disgusted that I actively pursued something I knew was wrong and betrayed the values I always stood up for.

Why? Because she actually took an interest in me.

I know this is how I'd react, because it happened before.

Hey, at least I know my weaknesses.

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You are not a slave

Toaster126

Why do you want a woman that will cheat on her hubby (even after you remind her of her existing relationship)?

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Xazy

I am religious #7 in the 10 commandments is commit adultery, #10 do not covet your neighbor wife. Of all the commandments, this actually hits on 2 of the 10 commandments. I am sorry but unless she is single, or going that way the harm you can do her, yourself, her family (if she has children, husband, even her family may feel shame if it comes out). Sometimes you have to walk away from the situation to be a better person no matter how difficult it is.

And as toaster says, this speaks to her morals and values as well.

I can not say you do not love her, but it is more likely lust with a tad of puppy love, I would recommend to a friend, to remove themselves from the situation since there is so much potential for disaster here (angry spouse, work situations, sexual harassment, family embarrassment, etc..).

Make sure you use the right head to think with here!

Cernunnos

I would attempt to quickly cool the relationship to just friends status and miserably fail, repeatedly fuck her after work hours, eventually ruin the woman's marriage, inadvertently destroy our friendship, and inevitably cause her to quit the job, never speaking to one another again, and reminiscing about the wild chemistry while masturbating into a paper towel. Alone.

jnthnlllshprd

i like what a lot of you had to say. especially Cernunnos.

i just let her go. things got incredibly complicated when her mom went to the ICU and she had to start taking care of her little sister, and moreso when her cousin got kicked out of her boyfriend's house, so she's living with her too. then they got more complicated when we got into a argument that left me kinda hurt and led me to drive my motorcycle straight into the pavement like a jackass.

so now all I'm willing to do is let her stay at my place when she and her husband have another fight. i'm not saying that makes me any less of a pig, but it's a comfortable median.

thanks for the input.

mqa

I really don't think that. I try to form my opinions rationally, and not uselessly judge people based on moral "grounds". When you love someone, rules don't apply, that's what I think (;

I'm not sure where you and this girl are now, based on your last post. Are you still in love with her? Anyway, my first concern is regarding your saying that you "love" her. From what I understand, you've known her for three weeks. Sure, you can have a crush on her, but "love"? Either way, this whole thing between you two went very fast, maybe a little too fast.
It's a complicated situation. Do you really want a girl that is willing to cheat on her husband with you? Because I believe she did cheat, when you kissed. Would you ever be able to trust her? Are your feelings strong enough, based on how it has only been three weeks? Did you really think this through rationally?
These are just a few of the questions you should ask yourself.

I'm not sure what you should do - that depends on how things are between the two of you right now.

jnthnlllshprd

tonight she basically made it clear to me that she's happy with her life, and quit her job.. as for that, I'm just plain confused because we were getting along so well and acting like a goofy pair of teenagers in the last few minutes i was with her.. I walked away to do some work on a broken bookshelf and come out to see she'd punched out without talking to anyone.. i called her as soon as I figured it out and she was talking like a wild person, saying I should come to her cook-out on the 4th of July, and party with her and her husband, etc.. I'm still not at all sure what I am to her..

needless to say I was in a bad mood all night..