Strange Famous

I woke up on Monday and weighed myself (for the first time in ages)

I weighed 329 lbs and I though "Fuck me!"

I decided straight away to go on a diet. I have counted how many calories I eat all week and the totals are this:

Date Calories
2009-06-29 1,371
2009-06-30 1,662
2009-07-01 1,623
2009-07-02 855
2009-07-03 1,764

Ive been drinking water as normal - at least 4 pints a day.

Ive been making an effort to stop off at the gym on the way to work to have a quick 20 min on the x-trainer - but I havent done any extra or intense exercise. I play five a side football once a week, but I play in goal so it isnt much exercise.

I weighed myself twice on Monday and came to the same weight (so I dont think it was a false result)

After a week of being careful I weighed myself today and I weigh 312 lbs.

Obviouly thats still very fat, but how can I have lost 17 lbs in 5 days? I dont feel noticably smaller. I weighed myself both in the morning and evening on Monday and came up with the same weight. Ive tried standing in front of the mirror at the gym and looking at my gut, but it doesnt seem a stone smaller...

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Baraka_Guru

I'd bet most of it was water weight you lost, especially if your diet changed a lot from your regular thing.

Your caloric intake is really low for your weight (even for a diet). What made up those calories exactly?

I should also add that besides losing initial water weight from drastically reducing your carbohydrate intake, there are few--or arguably any--"healthy" ways to lose more than 1 or 2 pounds per week.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Strange Famous

breakfast 1/2 cup orange juice, and a banana or 3 Weetabix with 1% milk

lunch - I found these microwave rice things. There is 250 grammes of rice in them with 350-400 kcal (depending on what flavour)

dinner - 3days Ive had a stew I made in my slow cooker with lots of veg and a couple of sausages and a couple of slices of bread
1 dayi had a chicken kiev with new potato and carrot and peas

no booze, nothing to drink but water - but as I said I definitely drink at least 4 pints day and probably more in this heat. So I shouldnt be losing a lot of fluid should I?

As you can see, I am eating plenty of food.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Sue

If the weight loss is becoming a genuine concern to you, I'd consult with your physician to make sure nothing abnormal is going on, or at least to fill them in on your drastic dietary change. If you're given a clean bill of health, then congrats on the weight loss

__________________
Teg yw edrych tuag adref.

Baraka_Guru

Forgive me for being blunt, but that's not a lot of food.

And Sue is right, be sure to consult your physician on these matters if you haven't already.

Here's what I think from what you've said so far:

Your breakfast is, well, a snack and doesn't contain more than a couple of grams of protein (unless you choose the milk option).

Your lunch is suspect as well. How many grams of protein are in that? Is it just rice?

Your dinners sound fine, but you have no snacks in between meals.

Basically, I think you are only eating one "real" meal a day. This is not the way to go. You should aim to eat 5 or 6 times a day--so your metabolism stays revved. And at your weight, you should be eating at least 2,000 calories, if not 2,300 to 2,400, *especially* if you are reasonably active.

So, let's say you eat 6 times a day. At three 500 calorie meals and three 200 calorie snacks that's 2,100 calories. (Which, despite what you read or what anyone tells you, is a low-calorie diet for you and your activity level.)

Try to eat at least 120g of protein, and don't be afraid of fat. You can easily eat as much as 20% of your calories as fat and still lose weight. Extreme low-fat diets are heavily prone to failure.

EDIT: You should increase your exercise intensity or duration if you are currently at low intensity. Aim for 70 to 80% of your max heart rate for those 20 minutes.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

thespian86

I have a problem with my wieght; it tends to fluctuate between 210 (stage weight) to 270 (jobless and depressed weight). I can say that when I get back on my work out program which is a lot of light but lengthy stationary bike work, plus simple but excrucitating lifting that focuses mainly on my core/upper body (my legs are jacked from playing football my whole life), I tend to lose a lot at once. like 40 pounds within a month. it's that last 20 pounds that's a fucker... sorry, back on topic.

I don't think it's odd that a man of your size would lose that much with a shock to their body. I will say you're not getting enough calories and should throw in a couple of small snacks in between those meals (a cereal bar and an apple let's say). If you are running low of calories and want this to be an extended effort and not a three and out (ie: what I like to call my 'fat guy spurt'; two weeks of hardcore before my body makes me give up and I revert back into laziness) you'll never make it. Calories are like gas. Essentially you're attempting to get everywhere running on empty which will take it's tole on your body.

The best thing someone can do in your position is:

1) replace foods. If you were eating burgers at McDonalds then buy ground lamb/chicken and make some at home. If you're buying white bread, replace it with a whole grain, etc. It makes a big difference and it won't shock your body into wanting to shut down.

2) Reduce your intake slowly. The body is a creature of habit. If you cut sugar out, you're gonna feel sick and tired. If you drink tons of coffee and you cut it out, you're going to feel the pain. Don't go from 2500 (a normal intake for a guy your size/my size about a month and a half ago; school was fucking terrible for my weight) to 800. That's dangerous and could be the cause of the big dip.

3) Introduce more exercise into your life, but make it a habit to "shock" your body with workouts. Routine workouts are for people who are maintaining a weight (ie: the old "three days of cardio, three days of circuit training on every second day, sundays off"). For dramatic change you kind of need to feel shitty for a while. Break up what you are doing. Rest lots, or relative to what you need. Take days off and then do it again. Everytime will be a test of will but that's a good thing.

Seriously, that lack of calories is going to bite you in the ass when you're body demands more. You'll just gain it all back. The truth is there is no way to "instantly" lose weight, and then keep it off in the long term.

Good luck man.

EDIT: yeah, what Baraka said.

__________________
EX: Whats new?
ME: I officially love coffee more then you now.
EX: uh...
ME: So, not much.

Baraka_Guru

thespian, that's some great advice; thanks for sharing your experiences.

I'd like to comment on this:
A good strategy when starting out is to measure your regular daily caloric intake and then shave off 500 calories. This essentially is a recipe to lose at least a pound per week (a pound of fat is worth 3,500 calories), and it's a highly achievable goal to cut that amount. Throwing in enough exercise will burn as much as that as well, so that could lead to the burning of two solid pounds *of fat* per week.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Strange Famous

Well, the day i ate 800 kcals was the night I play football and I missed having any dinner - in the normal course of things Im trying to eat 1500 kcals per day. I checked the pack of rice and it has 10g protein in a 250g pack.


Previously I didnt eat any breakfast at all and then used to be hungry by lunch.

My previous diet would be something like

no breakfast

lunch = a pre packed baugette with beef & onion, a pack of crisps, a chocolate bar, and 1 litre of Dr Pepper

Dinner = up to 3 packs (2 rounds of bread per pack) of pre packed sandwiches, or else half a loaf of bread with a fattening spread

Dont eat a lot of snacks, but when I do normall of the fattening and stodgy kind (ie - bagels, croissants, individual meat pies...)


at least 2 nights a week 10 pints of beer

__

So maube it is just the shock of suddenly having a normal amount of kcals that is causing so much weight loss?

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Bear Cub

I'm willing to bet you took several huge turds over that week span.

__________________
Living in the United Socialist States of America.

Lasereth

No it's not unhealthy at all. When I was close to 300 pounds I could go down to a lower calorie intake and lose 20 pounds in 2 weeks easily, sometimes more. What's unhealthy is being overweight. Losing weight isn't unhealthy as long as you stay around 1500-1800 per day. Any more than that and you need to be doing intense exercise to burn it off or nothing will happen. Keep up the good work.

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

ratbastid

I'll bet the real thing is going from moderate-to-what-most-of-us-would-say-is-a-lot-of alcohol to none. In my experience, nothing packs on the pounds like alcohol--and it's largely water weight. Which is weird, because it's also a diuretic, so that shouldn't make sense. But I know when I've been having more than a couple beers for a few nights in a row, or more than a couple times a week, I see it on the scale, and when I knock it off for a week or so, it comes right back off.

Baraka_Guru

Possibly. It's really easy for anyone to lose water weight. Cutting out all those carbs from the sandwiches and a litre of pop could have triggered that. Glucose in your blood requires water for delivery to your cells. So cutting out a ton of carbs generally cuts this water out along with it.

It's generally better to have calories spread throughout the day than having fits and stops. You can lose weight more effectively by consuming more calories throughout the day than you can by eating fewer calories fewer times.

For example, there are people who have decided to lose weight. They'd be consuming 1,800 calories a day, but over two meals and maybe a snack.

Their personal trainer would get them to do more exercise but tell them to eat 2,300 calories over 5 or 6 times a day.

Their metabolism rockets and they burn fat gradually over the weeks at a rate of 1 or 2 pounds per week. It would be almost impossible for them not to burn fat as long as they kept at it.

Sometimes more is less. They key is to get your metabolism into overdrive--give your body a reason to burn fat. Simply dropping a lot of calories could easily trigger starvation mode, which causes your body to try hard to hang onto extra calories such as fat. Fat is a very effective form of long-term energy storage. Your body knows this. You have to shock it into thinking it absolutely needs this energy to fulfill the demands you put on your body. Cutting off extra calories as a source, and throwing intense exercise at your body will shock it into saying, "Holy shit, it's time to get into those fat cells or we're in trouble." It's a defense mechanism that forces your body to burn fat as an energy source to help with kinetics (exercise) and recovery [rebuilding tissue and replenishing muscle energy (instantly usable) in the form of glycogen and glucose after exercise].

Severely restricting calories triggers that other defensive mechanism: starvation. You want to stay away from that.

This is why I said your calories are too low for your size. Add up the calories of your typical diet (with all those sandwiches and beer) and shave off 500 calories to start. Throw in intense cardio 5 times per week, and 1 or 2 resistance training (even pushups, crunches, lunges, tricep dips and pullups at home will do) and there is no reason why, if you are in good health otherwise, you shouldn't burn fat gradually over time. It takes energy to burn energy. Once you get your weight down, you can reevaluate how many calories you want in your diet. A gradual reduction is easier to manage than simply cutting calories wholesale. Crash dieting has the highest chance of failure, and there are reasons for it.

Get into a health-oriented lifestyle and long-term change, and you will see results.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Redjake

It's a combination of losing some water, taking shits (I know this for a fact because I weight myself daily and can drop 2 lbs in one day from waste) and reducing your caloric intake. I say keep going, lose more weight!

__________________
Off the record, on the q.t., and very hush-hush.

Baraka_Guru

True, Redjake. But depending on the caloric deficit, it's likely to be a bit of muscle too. For all we know, SF's BMR could be anywhere between 1,500 to 2,000 calories a day, which means if his caloric intake dips too low, he won't get the energy he needs to sustain his system fast enough, and so the body will take from all available sources to ensure it: glucose, fat, and muscle tissue.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Fotzlid

You may want to increase your water intake a bit as well. The body needs the water to break down the stored fats into usable sugars.

Actually, alcohol is a sugar.

ratbastid

Uh, no, not at all. "Sugar alcohol" (which is actually neither) is a non-carb sweetener, maybe that's what you're thinking of? Sugar and alcohol are very different substances. Alcohol was once some form of sugar, before being fermented, but it's real different from sugar afterward.

And I'm not actually talking about the caloric impact of the alcohol itself (although it has plenty), but more about the simultaneous water-retention/diuretic affect that alcohol has. I don't actually KNOW anything about that beyond my own experience, mind.

Baraka_Guru

Alcohol has other effects on the body as well. It can stimulate hunger and can impede your metabolism (i.e. metabolizing alcohol vs. metabolizing other things).

Regardless, many alcoholic beverages are around 100 calories a pop, if not more.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Vigilante

I lost 10lbs in one day once. It was all water though, and I was working in the texas heat all day.

__________________
We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.
-Winston Churchill

Cynthetiq

what does "healthily" mean?

does it mean will you die if you lose 17lbs in 5 days?

Does it mean you will cause irreparable damage to your body?

The body is resilient.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

thingstodo

Good lord...10 pints of beer twice a week? If you stop that you will lose by doing nothing else. That is at least 2,000-2,200 calories every time you hit 10 pints. You were adding close to 4,500 empty calories weekly. A pound of fat is 3,600 calories. That means you could have added 65 pounds of fat in a year from drinking if you didn't work it off. 20 minutes in a gym or standing at a goal ain't gonna make that happen. And that doesn't include the food you ate. It sound like your diet is a mess with lots of refined and processed foods and heavy on the meat.

At some point your body will figure out it isn't getting anything like it used to and begin conserving fuel, which equates to fat. Any advice you receive to take it slow and sensible is good advice.

__________________
If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves.

Stangers have the best candy.

Fotzlid

Odd....I thought I edited that out...

oh well...

Hektore

I didn't see anyone run any numbers for you anywhere so I thought I'd throw them up so you could see how much exercise and diet 17lbs is.

At 3,500 calories per pound, 17 pounds is 59,500 calories.

Burning 59,500 calories in 5 days requires an average of 11,900 net calories burned over what is consumed.

Consider then, what you eat has to be added to that total. 1500 calories per day taken in works out to 13,400 calories burned per day to reach this goal.

If you have a very, very high BMR you may be burning 3500 calories per day.

According to the calculator and Runner's World a 315 lb. person would burn 6253 calories over the course of a marathon.

So, if you add a (very high) BMR to a daily marathon that works out to ~9,750 per day, leaving you an additional half a marathon or so to make up the rest of the calories to reach your 13,400 per day burn goal.

Not that you couldn't figure that all out on your own, I just like running numbers and figured I'd share what I came up with.

__________________
The advantage law is the best law in rugby, because it lets you ignore all the others for the good of the game.

Martian

The key to understanding this is that there are 3500 calories in one pound of fat. When dealing with anything other than fat, that number isn't really applicable.

Any time someone loses more than a pound or two over the course of a week, the bulk of what they're losing is unlikely to be fat. In this case I suspect there was a lot of retained water being lost, particularly with the alcohol consumption being cut out.

Baraka_Guru's advice is spot on here, as always. The only thing I'd add is that you may want to increase your exercise levels as well. If you can manage it, stopping after work might be a better option; it means you can safely get yourself all sweaty without worrying about offending your co-workers. Aim for a moderate intensity (for a guy your age, target heart rate is going to be around 155 or 160 bpm), and if you can spare a bit more time you might want to add some strength training as well. It doesn't have to be an every day type of thing, and for strength training really shouldn't be -- cardio every day is pretty safe, especially on a cross-trainer because there's no impact stress, but when strength training you need to give yourself time to heal between sessions. 40 minutes or so three times per week is a good target.

The biggest thing for changes like this is to keep it sustainable. A 'diet' in the sense that most people think of it rarely works, because it's not sustainable as a long term change. To be healthy, you have to live healthy; it's a permanent thing. Don't burn yourself out on it.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

vainღ♥♡jane

only if you chop off a body part or two.

BenChuy

here is an easy way to do it. 1/3 of your kcal should be from fat, 1/3 from carbs (make them count: fruits, not sodas, etc.), 1/3 from protein. the diets that take out one are unhealthy.
the advice to do some weight training is VERY good. increased muscle mass increases your BMR, or base metabolic rate, and should help you burn fat faster just by sitting doing your job. with the fact that you are what is called "morbidly obese," and thank god you have the will to reverse it, you NEED to consult a health provider to monitor your progress and your method of losing this weight.

a related funny note: A pt of mine just started doing this and came back to us saying that he just relived some heavy drug using days a few months when burning off the fat that was deposited during his subsequent pigging out. I will have to look at the research for the validity but he said that he can't wait to get to all the other weeks of excess.

note: i am just a med-surg nurse and not a nutritionist.
Good luck and congrats on the decision to turn your body to your will.

cadre

Ding, ding. It is unhealthy to lose more than 1-2 pounds a week. That said, your recent loss was probably mostly water. But, don't continue eating at that level thinking you'll lose another 17 pounds. It's too low and your body will respond by dropping your metabolism causing you to lose no weight.

This is wrong. Losing weight can be very unhealthy. Being overweight is also unhealhy but shedding weight very quickly will not help anyone in the long run. 1500-1800 calories per day is probably low also.

The alcohol, and lack there of definitely could make a huge difference. Beer has a lot of carbs also.


Losing 17 pounds a week is bad. I sincerely hope that you do not continue on this path since it will not work for you in the long run.

What is your age and your height? Once we can calculate a relatively accurate BMR (basal metabolic rate) for you we can see how many calories your body needs to sustain itself (this does not account for exercise). Then the way you should lose weight is to either add exercise (to burn extra calories), or lower your caloric intake SLIGHTLY. You've already done both of these but we need to fix your caloric intake if you're going to continue with this. You should be eating at about 80% of your daily expenditure. If you drop your calories too low, you will force your body into starvation mode and your metabolism will slow down.

As far as your workouts are concerned, you should consider doing some strength training in addition to your cardio. Muscle burns extra calories so adding extra muscle will help you lose weight and add some shape so that you seem more fit even with a higher body fat percentage.

Disclaimer: I am currently studying to become a personal trainer, I've had nutrition courses in the past. I am not an expert though.

Edit:
One other note is that if you lose weight faster than 1 pound per week your skin will not be able to keep up and you will end up with loose skin.

__________________
My life is one of those 'you had to be there' jokes.

Baraka_Guru

I recently had a body composition performed on me. It indicated that my BMR is just over 1800. I'm about 5'11" and have a lean mass (weight without fat) of around 148lbs. I'm not an entirely big guy, and yet I require around 1800 calories just to keep my system going. My current daily caloric intake is between 2,300 to 2,500. With decent food choices and adequate exercise (3 hours resistance training, 2 hours high-intensity cardio per week, on top of one+ hours of walking per day), I managed to burn 5lbs. of pure fat in just over 2 months. With that formula, the weight isn't coming back on anytime soon, and I expect it to continue to drop despite hitting 14% body fat.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Hektore

It is entirely possible to lose more than1-2 lbs per week healthily. It's quite possible to lose 10lbs per week healthily - it's just very, very (very) difficult.

Cutting your calories to extremes (aka crash diets) and neglecting nutrition is unhealthy.

Exercising until you collapse, especially multiple times per day is unhealthy.

The 1-2 lb figure comes out of data on successful weight loss. As a statistical average people who lose weight and keep it off do so gradually. This is related to the fact that most people who lose weight successfully make small, permanent changes over periods of time because this strategy recognizes a fundamental truth about weight control.

Temporary changes to diet and exercise to not yield permanent weight-loss results.

If your current diet and exercise routine leave you as a 400lb tub of jelly, they're always going to leave you that way, no matter how many diets you 'go on' because 'going' on a diet means eventually 'going off' and back to your old habits.

If you want to lose weight and keep it off you have to make lifestyle changes - permanent changes.

I realize, my goal was to illustrate what it would take to lose 17 lbs of 'healthy' weight in a week, and to point out that unless his week looked like that it wasn't 'healthy' weight that he lost.

I've seen wrestlers in high school 'lose' 10 lbs in a single practice, but nobody doubts it was anything other that water weight (crazy asses practice in sweat shirts under garbage bags).

I've also seen a documentary on a fellow swimming the English Channel - how that will burn about 15 lbs worth of calories and can be completed in less than a day. I seriously doubt you could claim that man as (physically) unhealthy.

__________________
The advantage law is the best law in rugby, because it lets you ignore all the others for the good of the game.